Confederation of Corrupt Dictators: Ultimate Gameplay Thread

[The Chuck]

That TG from Depackya deeply disturbed me when I read it.

Offering to forgive you and wanted you back into a Region where many of its members are your friends? Disturbs you?

It reminded me of an online community I used to be in where I was in your place, trying to leave, and a Depackya figure was trying to guilt me into coming back. Communities like this are like a cult. They guilt you. That's how it always happens when you're close to breaking free; guilting is their last resort.

Give me a break.

Word of advice: don't look back, not even for a second. Purge CCD completely from your mind until the bad memories no longer make you feel any pain. Give it time, patience, and determination, and you'll break free.

What about the pain you caused the members of the CCD by betraying them? What about leaking their content and betraying their trust and privacy in their telegram networks?

Look, I have worked with Chuck and he's a great man, and he has done nothing wrong here. However, the gentleman that betrayed the CCD and turned to Chuck is the one that did wrong. The CCD is a DICTATORSHIP and the DICTATORSHIP'S COUNCIL punished a member that defied it.

In the Confederation of CORRUPT DICTATORS.

---

This is a flat-out persecution of the CCD because it is authoritarian and dared to punish someone that betrayed them after their good faith offer to forgive was turned down.

The WA and NS Game Play have a habit of punishing everyone that isn't a left-leaning, liberal democracy. Not even just democracies. Ones that embrace leftism are the ones the community protects.

This is why I don't get into stuff like this. This is why I don't like the World Assembly. My nation, when IC, calls it the "Devil's Congregate".

It is.

Erm no. I have done my fair share of wrong in the past when I was the Admin of the CCD Discord. German however has done nothing wrong unless you count bringing the truth to light as wrong. A whistle blower who brings issues to light is a person who should be looked up to as someone who has morals and values that they hold dear. Something I've personally learned in life is that if I don't have a few enemies at any given time, I'm not sticking to my guns hard enough. When you have enemies that wish death threats against you like wanting your head on a silver plate John the Baptist style (Jocospor) or wanting to put an axe through the skulls of the mods and maybe myself (Karelignia), you know you're doing something right.

German did his actions on his own accord but I did my actions on my own accord too. I stand by German in saying that he is a man who has brass balls that would put any other person to shame. To be able to stand and speak out about the truth when it could cost you friends that you've known for a long time takes guts.

I am proud that I can call German a friend within this game and I honestly hope positive change can come to the Confederation eventually. Unfortunately so long as Jocospor is the founder, no real positive change can come since all of it could be wiped away in one evening.

Remember folks, Sharon L. Alder once said, "People who fit don’t seek. The seekers are those that don’t fit."

Scientia est Potentia.

[Boda]

TURTLESHOOM II, Why are we using IC to justify OOC actions? There should definitely be a limit in how IC you truly are or otherwise people may take your IC as OOC.... oh wait.

[Marxist Germany]

This guy is really hurting CCD's PR.

[The Church of Satan]

Fascism is not National Socialism. The Horseshoe Theory is real, gentlemen.

The Merriam Webster dictionary defines fascism as:

"a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition."

So it isn't about CCD being a dictatorship. It's that part of the definition in bold lettering. That's why fascism is so unwelcome on NS. It is inherently hateful and will go to any lengths to suppress opposition to that hate, including misinformation campaigns, attempts to infringe on the freedom of the press and paint anyone who dares speak against them as some sort of criminal (especially those who in doing so leave them). After all that CCD even has the gall to act as if they are the victim in all of it.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

TURTLESHOOM II, Why are we using IC to justify OOC actions? There should definitely be a limit in how IC you truly are or otherwise people may take your IC as OOC.... oh wait.

I have not been writing in-character. Everything I have posted here has been entirely out-of-character.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

Fascism is not National Socialism. The Horseshoe Theory is real, gentlemen.

The Merriam Webster dictionary defines fascism as:

"a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition."

So it isn't about CCD being a dictatorship. It's that part of the definition in bold lettering. That's why fascism is so unwelcome on NS.

The exact wording is "AND OFTEN race". Again, no fascist regime in history rounded up and exterminated innocents like Hitler did. Not the Spainiards, not the Portuguese, and certainly not the Italians! The Jewish academic elite in Italy had ranks in the Italian Fascist Party, after all, and Mussolini, IIRC, sheltered Italy's Jews from Germany until the Social Republic period where Hitler invaded.

The Brazilian Integralists were civic nationalists with no racial component whatsoever. IIRC, they were multicultural. At least one legitimate fascist believer on here has a quote from Mussolini himself saying that racial purity is a folly to chase, and that fascism was about the nation, the collective of all its loyal people.

I'm not saying fascists are saints. I'm not saying there aren't facists that are hardline racists. I'm not saying that fascism is not brutal to those under it, nor that they don't violently suppress dissent.

I'm saying that fascism itself was never about racial purity to the extent that our society associates with until Hitler ruined it, despite not being a fascist himself.

Guilt by association is what sent fascism to its grave, not just Hitler. However, because of Hitler's unspeakable, horrific actions and butchering of innocents, nothing that has ever gone near him can ever be cleansed or rehabilitated, even when it didn't directly connect to Hitler at all.

National Socialism is not fascism. Nazism is its own thing entirely.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

A Region, like Nationstates itself, is part of a privately owned and hosted game. A private entity does not have a responsibility or obligation to honor the free press, free speech, or anything else. This is the same reason why the Twitter gets away with censorship.

Everyone talking about "rights" and "freedoms" is forgetting that Regions are autonomous and, unless violated by the WA's agenda, they exercise plenary power over themselves.

The man that betrayed the CCD, regardless of whether or not he did it out of goodwill, regardless of why, was subject to retaliation, which is the right of the other nations within the limitations of NS and NS forum bylaws.

If the rumors about death threats are true, or threats to Dox or harm a person in RL exist, then obviously, the ban hammer needs to be brought in. However, based on the evidence of private telegrams leaked (which itself raises ethical questions), no actual NS rules seem to be broken.

The CCD is playing victim because an internal issue concerning a man who broke an oath to his Region has become the vehicle for universal persecution by more or less all of Nationstates because CCD adheres to "wrong thought". Several people here have made it clear that the CCD deserves its throat stepped on because it happens to tolerate people that believe in fascism in RL.
This is in spite of the fact that, if I am not mistaken, there aren't any people that openly believe in Nazism in RL.

This is in spite of the fact that CCD, while certainly having fascists, does not appear to have any record of letting racism dominate its operations in terms of the OOC behavior of the RL men playing in it.

This is another classic example of the overwhelming supermajority of NS picking on the Evil Ideology of the Day(TM) and getting away with it by sheer numbers and personal bias of the actual powers that be.

I do not consider a man who broke an oath to anything, even to a bunch of nerds on a text-based MMO RPG, to be in any way honorable. The only reason you should get out of a promise you amde is if that promise compels you to, say, kill the innocent or renounce your religion (or lack thereof).

If there is some sort of actual, RL behavior was demanded of him that he could not, in RL, consciously perform (say, orders to Dox or pirate or whatever), then German Reich would have done the right thing.

Instead, based on the evidence I have seen, German Reich betrayed his friends. Even if they retaliated hatefully and are spinning the story, the fact that German Reich has deliberately failed to honor his commitments is what I care about personally.

Considering Chuck has enemies in the CCD and is clearly hostile to the CC, for whatever good or bad reason that is, I can see why they disciplined German Reich for working with him. I reiterate that Chuck's role in this has nothing to do with the controversy, but I am beginning to think that I will have to retract my previous statement that no one, Reich included, did anything wrong.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

On the last note, I am dismayed at the cowardice of the CCD. They seem to be ready to at least pretend to implement "reforms" to their structure in response to the bullying and explosion of a private issue into a NS inquisition against "illegal opinions".

This is a terrible move. When I was a kid, I made this exact mistake when I held power in an Internet organization. I caved to demands to democratize the system and I was ultimately stabbed in the back and tossed out on my face. The moment they had the numbers, I was removed and my entire life's work (as a kid, 2008-2012 AD was exactly that) no longer exists on that site outside of the actual stories I wrote. My legacy in governance, the rules and structure of that site, and so on are gone.

The men of the CCD are making a fundamental error. I am dismayed at the cowardice of the CCD. They seem to be ready to at least pretend to implement "reforms" to their structure in response to the bullying and explosion of a private issue into a NS inquisition against "illegal opinions". This is a terrible move. When I was a kid, I made this exact mistake when I held power in an Internet organization. I caved to demands to democratize the system and I was ultimately stabbed in the back and tossed out on my face. The moment they had the numbers, I was removed.

The first rule of a dictatorship is not to cave whenever it is possible to refuse to cave. As a dictator-style leader myself, I also believe that the responsibility of a dictator is to allow criticism of himself (without ceding power, why should disagreements be suppressed if they aren't plotting to overthrow me?) and attempt to establish a benovolent system for his subjects to thrive and grow together.
A true leader leaves everyone under himk better of or the same as when he found them.

The masses and your enemies are relentless. If they smell weakeness, they will attack you. This is why Chechnya is still Russian clay despite the fact that releasing it would be easier on Russia. This is why Hong Kong cannot be allowed to walk.

You show weakness, and the vultures will stop circling and start clawing into your still-living flesh.



I encourage the CCD to wash their hands of German Reich, forgive him for his betrayal, and stand firm on their principles and governance. No reform is needed, only forgiveness.

[Cedoria]

On the last note, I am dismayed at the cowardice of the CCD. They seem to be ready to at least pretend to implement "reforms" to their structure in response to the bullying and explosion of a private issue into a NS inquisition against "illegal opinions".

This is a terrible move. When I was a kid, I made this exact mistake when I held power in an Internet organization. I caved to demands to democratize the system and I was ultimately stabbed in the back and tossed out on my face. The moment they had the numbers, I was removed and my entire life's work (as a kid, 2008-2012 AD was exactly that) no longer exists on that site outside of the actual stories I wrote. My legacy in governance, the rules and structure of that site, and so on are gone.

The men of the CCD are making a fundamental error. I am dismayed at the cowardice of the CCD. They seem to be ready to at least pretend to implement "reforms" to their structure in response to the bullying and explosion of a private issue into a NS inquisition against "illegal opinions". This is a terrible move. When I was a kid, I made this exact mistake when I held power in an Internet organization. I caved to demands to democratize the system and I was ultimately stabbed in the back and tossed out on my face. The moment they had the numbers, I was removed.

The first rule of a dictatorship is not to cave whenever it is possible to refuse to cave. As a dictator-style leader myself, I also believe that the responsibility of a dictator is to allow criticism of himself (without ceding power, why should disagreements be suppressed if they aren't plotting to overthrow me?) and attempt to establish a benovolent system for his subjects to thrive and grow together.
A true leader leaves everyone under himk better of or the same as when he found them.

The masses and your enemies are relentless. If they smell weakeness, they will attack you. This is why Chechnya is still Russian clay despite the fact that releasing it would be easier on Russia. This is why Hong Kong cannot be allowed to walk.

You show weakness, and the vultures will stop circling and start clawing into your still-living flesh.



I encourage the CCD to wash their hands of German Reich, forgive him for his betrayal, and stand firm on their principles and governance. No reform is needed, only forgiveness.

And your record is obviously so much better then many other exceptional regional leaders on here who tell them the opposite, so I’m sure they’ll listen to you. (Sarcasm, Sarcasm)

Not that you have anything to worry about, CCP’s. ‘reforms’ are a smokescreen until proven otherwise.

[Honeydewistania]

This guy is really hurting CCD's PR.

Why is that a bad thing? It’s hilarious watching CCD tripping over themselves with their incompetence.

[Lyrical International Brigade]

...Again, no fascist regime in history rounded up and exterminated innocents like Hitler did. Not the Spainiards...

...Guilt by association is what sent fascism to its grave, not just Hitler. However, because of Hitler's unspeakable, horrific actions and butchering of innocents, nothing that has ever gone near him can ever be cleansed or rehabilitated, even when it didn't directly connect to Hitler at all.

National Socialism is not fascism. Nazism is its own thing entirely.

Keep splitting those hairs. Maybe you'll find gold in one of 'em someday.

But do it in General, will ya?

[ShrewLlamaLand]

Obviously they are. However you must not pay attention to the fact that the CCD claims only to rp as dictatorships. They claim that they aren’t authoritarian OOC’ly either. So this claim is just total BS.

That's cute but we've never claimed that at all in the past. We're a dictatorial region both in RP and in the structure of how the region is run (although this will change somewhat when the latest reforms are announced).

If you're somehow claiming that running the region under authoritarian government makes us real-life supporters of dictatorships, you're wrong, if you had actually conversed with the Supreme Council you'd find the majority of us are actually left-leaning.

This guy is really hurting CCD's PR.

Why is that a bad thing? It’s hilarious watching CCD tripping over themselves with their incompetence.

They are not a part of our region, and as far as I know never have been. I'm not really sure why you think that's the case.

And your record is obviously so much better then many other exceptional regional leaders on here who tell them the opposite, so I’m sure they’ll listen to you. (Sarcasm, Sarcasm)

Not that you have anything to worry about, CCP’s. ‘reforms’ are a smokescreen until proven otherwise.

We'll see.

I encourage the CCD to wash their hands of German Reich, forgive him for his betrayal, and stand firm on their principles and governance. No reform is needed, only forgiveness.

As far as I'm concerned I don't really care what happens to German Reich after this. They had the right to leave the region amicably whenever they felt like it, as does everyone else in the region, and it would have been absolutely fine if they'd done so.

If they had concerns with how the region was being run both Jocospor and I would have been very happy to respond to those concerns either privately, or publicly here on the forums or elsewhere. It's not the problem of what they did, it's how they did it - they sat in the regional Discord feeding intel to Chuck, and that's what makes it very hard to "forgive" them.

[Prydania]

This is a flat-out persecution of the CCD because it is authoritarian...

You are aware that all of this is the result of the CCD's failed attempt to coup TNP, right? CCD very much did do something to bring all of this negative attention down on them.

Again, no fascist regime in history rounded up and exterminated innocents like Hitler did. Not the Spainiards, not the Portuguese, and certainly not the Italians!

emphasis mine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_racial_laws
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifesto_of_Race
http://www.italyandtheholocaust.org/ita ... -laws.aspx
https://slate.com/human-interest/2017/0 ... water.html
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10 ... 19.1550695
https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/.premium ... -1.5262440
https://www.dw.com/en/italys-parliament ... a-42276349

[Jocospor]

Obviously they are. However you must not pay attention to the fact that the CCD claims only to rp as dictatorships. They claim that they aren’t authoritarian OOC’ly either. So this claim is just total BS.

That's cute but we've never claimed that at all in the past. We're a dictatorial region both in RP and in the structure of how the region is run (although this will change somewhat when the latest reforms are announced).

If you're somehow claiming that running the region under authoritarian government makes us real-life supporters of dictatorships, you're wrong, if you had actually conversed with the Supreme Council you'd find the majority of us are actually left-leaning.

Why is that a bad thing? It’s hilarious watching CCD tripping over themselves with their incompetence.

They are not a part of our region, and as far as I know never have been. I'm not really sure why you think that's the case.

And your record is obviously so much better then many other exceptional regional leaders on here who tell them the opposite, so I’m sure they’ll listen to you. (Sarcasm, Sarcasm)

Not that you have anything to worry about, CCP’s. ‘reforms’ are a smokescreen until proven otherwise.

We'll see.

I encourage the CCD to wash their hands of German Reich, forgive him for his betrayal, and stand firm on their principles and governance. No reform is needed, only forgiveness.

As far as I'm concerned I don't really care what happens to German Reich after this. They had the right to leave the region amicably whenever they felt like it, as does everyone else in the region, and it would have been absolutely fine if they'd done so.

If they had concerns with how the region was being run both Jocospor and I would have been very happy to respond to those concerns either privately, or publicly here on the forums or elsewhere. It's not the problem of what they did, it's how they did it - they sat in the regional Discord feeding intel to Chuck, and that's what makes it very hard to "forgive" them.

OOC: Mm yeah personally I can't see Clinton buying Assange flowers but maybe that's just me.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

Your record is obviously so much better then many other exceptional regional leaders on here who tell them the opposite, so I’m sure they’ll listen to you.

An exceptional Regional leader doesn't bully another Region that refuses to play the same way they play. A Region player has no "rights" or "free speech" or whatever else a real human is given in real life. German Reich appears to think he can say and do whatever he wants with impunity. That's now how Regions work.

Not that you have anything to worry about, CCP’s. ‘reforms’ are a smokescreen until proven otherwise.

God willing! They are under no obligation to reform! CCD should not have buckled to the pressure, if you ask me.

I still believe the best way forward is for the CCD to reverse whatever reforms it was cowed into making, apologize to and ask the forgiveness of German Reich, and sever ties. Don't fight German Reich and let him make his choice.

If German Reich was no longer bothered or called by the CCD, and if the CCD didn't dig up bones with Chuck, this could all go away. More importantly, the real dishonor here is that someone thought it was a good idea to air their dirty laundry in public. I'm not sure who started this, but this should never have gone public.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_racial_laws
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifesto_of_Race
http://www.italyandtheholocaust.org/ita ... -laws.aspx
https://slate.com/human-interest/2017/0 ... water.html
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10 ... 19.1550695
https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/.premium ... -1.5262440
https://www.dw.com/en/italys-parliament ... a-42276349

My statement that you quoted asserted that Mussolini did not round up and exterminate the Jews or any other "inferior" group. "Certainly not the Italians!" was in reference to the atrocities of the Holocaust, which Mussolini did not commit and (IIRC) to which he refused to send his Jews. No equivalent to the Holocaust existed outside of Hitler's Germany.

Before I continue, just to make sure no one misunderstands what I am about to say, I need to affirm that the injustices you showed me against the Jews in Italy are deliberate and state-enforced. The public sector should not be allowed to discriminate in any situation, and likewise, it should not force private business to enforce institutionalized bigotry.

That's all it seems to be. Based on your own articles, Mussolini's laws, among other things, expelled Jews from schools, allowed workers to fire them, and prohibited marriage between Jews and Gentiles (which, ironically, is a Biblical command).

There is no "right" to college. I am of the belief that private entities that do not provide critical services (like police, fire, travel, etc.) should be allowed to discriminate at-will. As a Christian white man, if a restaurant refuses to serve me, that's their right. Likewise, I have a right to never shop there again.

The difference with Mussolini was that it was clearly state-enforced bigotry and not any private initiative. Eventually, it said, they also began stealing land and assets from the Jews, which is abominable. This is wrong.

Also, I find that to be extremely ironic given that Jews filled the Fascist Party ranks until, apparently, 1938 AD, when Mussolini betrayed some of his most loyal fascists. What a shame.

Thank you for providing the information you shared and further educating me on history. I appreciate your addition to the discourse.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

You are aware that all of this is the result of the CCD's failed attempt to coup TNP, right? CCD very much did do something to bring all of this negative attention down on them.

Sadly, raiding is legal in NS. So is a coup d'etat, and quite frankly, given the undue influence the Feeder Regions have in pushing the World Assembly to ridiculous resolutions, it's about time. The WA always undermines sovereignty, but more recently, it now compels the tolerance of mutilation of men in the name of Gender Identity Disorder (AND denying that Gender Identity Disorder exists while ironically affirming its symptom, gender dysphoria).

This enabling of ineffective and irreversible treatments (which don't noticeably reduce the suicide rate and only hurt society by paving the way to men in women's bathrooms) instead of funding and assisting people with gender dysphoria arising from GID and forcing states to make taxpayers pay for it for murderers' and rapists' cosmetic surgeries is a sign that there is no balance left.

Sane men could use a three hundred pound gorilla stopping the madness in the World Assembly. Even crazed extremists like the CCD are a better counterweight to compelling states to accept the desires of people suffering from real, serious mental illnesses and mental torment to mutilate themselves in an elective, cosmetic surgery.

It's a shame they failed.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

The way I see it is very simple. Regardless of whatever bad blood you have with the CCD, the facts that matter to me are thus:

1. German Reich made promises and broke them. Instead of seeking permission to dissolve his bonds or simply getting out of the Region, he made a spectacular poop show and got every leftist in Nationstates to begin dog-piling on CCD to reform itself. Like cowards, they buckled.

2. There is no right, no privilege, no obligation, and no responsibility for a Region to treat anyone in any specific way, good or bad. German Reich's entitlement to this and that, that he is angry that CCD disciplined him. From my perspective, that comes off as an arrogant, entitled mindset that believes he has a right to shoot his mouth off and say whatever he wants without consequence.

The idea that a Region resident has "rights" that the Region does not declar is disgusting and entitled. Regions give what they wish to give and take what they wish to take. Don't like it? Find another Region!

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

Dude, find your edit button so you don't quadruple fucking post, and take your trash political opinions to NSG where the rest of us can ignore them.

[Francois Isidore]

Does any of what you’re saying relate to the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators or the state of affairs in their region? Seems to me you just decided to go on an opinionated tangent completely separate from the event in gameplay being discussed and then decided to loosely tie it in with the comment “It’s about time” for coup d’etats to be preformed on game-created regions (specifically Feeders). If none of what you’re saying relates to the intended discussion of this thread then why are you posting it here, and more so, why do you insist upon quadruple posting when everybody else is already well-acquainted with their edit button?

If anything, that’s just laziness. Come on, man. You’re making a tired argument but I’d hope you’d at least be able to do better than this.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

If none of what you’re saying relates to the intended discussion of this thread then why are you posting it here, and more so, why do you insist upon quadruple posting when everybody else is already well-acquainted with their edit button?

First, there is a post character limit. Second, I do that in order to sort and organize my posts to make them more legigible.

If anything, that’s just laziness. Come on, man. You’re making a tired argument but I’d hope you’d at least be able to do better than this.

My comments on the coup d'etat and references to politics were replies and continuations of civil discussion, as well as personal opinion. I have already presented my arguments in defense of CCD in previous posts. You can see them a few pages back.

[Tinhampton]

If none of what you’re saying relates to the intended discussion of this thread then why are you posting it here, and more so, why do you insist upon quadruple posting when everybody else is already well-acquainted with their edit button?

First, there is a post character limit. Second, I do that in order to sort and organize my posts to make them more legigible.

The post character limit is about 80,000 characters. I ran all four of your quadruple-post series through a letter-counter and they added up to about 6,500 characters, total - I've written singular roleplays that were double that length. It would be as implausible to cite "a post character limit" as an excuse for making four consecutive posts of that total length as it was when Jocospor cited his infamous "invisible script" as a reason to archive the CCD Discord.

[Sedgistan]

I gave clear notice yesterday that non-gameplay related discussion should go in the General forum. That has been ignored. As such:

Turtleshroom - this post and this one have no relation to NS gameplay and are a continuation of the threadjack my previous post was addressed. This one again is unrelated to gameplay, and appears to be an attempt to start an entirely different threadjack. *** Warned for threadjacking. ***

Prydania - the first part of your post was fine; but that doesn't excuse continuing the threadjack in your second part. While your contribution to the threadjack was less egregious than Turtleshroom, you've been punished for this exact behaviour not too long again. *** Warned for threadjacking. ***

Lyrical International Brigade - this post was not helpful; you're continuing the threadjack, and the link to the General forum doesn't excuse that. As it was a single post and your record is close to clean I am only handing out an unofficial warning for threadjacking.

I am leaving this thread locked overnight. When I re-open it tomorrow, I expect the debate to return to the topic of this thread: the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators.

[Honeydewistania]

CCD so dumb, they couldn’t get into TNP


Like so Brody can see!!!!!

[Jocospor]

I am leaving this thread locked overnight. When I re-open it tomorrow, I expect the debate to return to the topic of this thread: the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators.

And what a topic that is!

If you haven't already, please consult the January Statement by Viceroy Murdoch Kellner, who has returned from his sabbatical early to oversee the Confederation's constitutional reforms.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1311093