NationStates

Let's not forget this is a region that still harbors Savaer as an Admin and member of their Senior Leadership, harbors Kemi (Stalker Queen) as a Global Moderator, and has formerly harbored the likes of Kurosaki.

I'd question how much comfort any player should feel coming to an event in Unknown, and frankly encourage folks to avoid the region for as long as it continues allowing highly questionable individuals, who have been widely banned acrosss GP, into their community.

Tim Stark wrote:Let's not forget this is a region that still harbors Savaer as an Admin and member of their Senior Leadership, harbors Kemi (Stalker Queen) as a Global Moderator, and has formerly harbored the likes of Kurosaki.

I'd question how much comfort any player should feel coming to an event in Unknown, and frankly encourage folks to avoid the region for as long as it continues allowing highly questionable individuals, who have been widely banned acrosss GP, into their community.

Kemi is not a member of Unknown, and hasn't been active here for at least a year. Her nation was listed as an in-game officer until more recently, mostly because I couldn't be bothered to remove her. I speak infrequently with her; I understand she is seeking help to become a better person, and that she has no desire to return to NS gameplay. To this day, not a single person has bothered to enlighten me on what she even did, and I've actually asked around, so I consider efforts today to impeach the character of Unknown based on her former presence to be an intentional smear that you have plotted for some time.

Kurosaki has never been a citizen of Unknown, or even particularly welcome- in fact, he has always hated me. This is because the first time he actually met me was when I blew the coup he was helping to scheme in Osiris against Oliver. You'd remember this, because you were slated to be the vice delegate in that plot. There was a lot of OOC slinging between me and him that you wouldn't have seen because 95% of it was in direct DMs between me and him. As an Australian, I am afflicted by what we call "tall poppy syndrome", and his hardcore, r/creepyasterisks worthy act was a tall poppy that I found endless hours of entertainment sniping at. This came to a head sometime in 2012, after which he was entirely excluded from Unknown. His presence in our community lasted less than 6 months. Again, if this was something you had a genuine issue with, you would have brought it up years ago. As a matter of fact, you were there, and I don't remember you bringing him up.

I am only aware of one set of accusations against Savaer, and if they are what I think they are (certain 2011 stuff), then you should be ashamed of yourself. Remember, me and Kshrlmnt had front row seats to that, not the garbled (and more than just a little bit fabricated) third hand account that circulates gameplay today. We were actually there. In the immediate aftermath, we did not hesitate to completely burn the entire gameplay sphere that had been built around Unknown to ash to remove others that we thought needed to be gone from the game. If we didn't get the full, evidenced story on what happened, Savaer wouldn't have been let back in the door.

Will you be getting new forums for the event or will we have to put up with Taptalk?

Drop Your Pants wrote:Will you be getting new forums for the event or will we have to put up with Taptalk?

It will be done on discord, as far as I know.

Drop Your Pants wrote:Will you be getting new forums for the event or will we have to put up with Taptalk?

So back on topic, some thought has gone into this.

• We will be using an entirely separate, and in-context Discord server, and an invite link will be published down the line in the OP of this thread.
• Participants will be invited to show up, using a new account and identity made especially for the ball,
• Participants will need to be masked in order to gain access to the ball, and can get that mask by coming to me with their real account via DMs to let me know which their burner account is.
• We will obviously be using discretion on who we grant masks to, and;
• We will require everyone's burner identities to be the same gender that they usually identify as, and;
• We will be publishing a full list of the real users in the ball (but not their burner accounts, more on why in a second), so people can use their discretion on whether or not they feel comfortable in the room.
  ~
• The ball will rotate through a series of ballrooms and events, celebrating the history of Unknown and Cruor, in which everyone will be participating in in-context.
• The ball will have an overall contest, where everyone will be offered the opportunity at the end of the ball to make guesses about the identities of all others attending the ball;
• The winners will be the people who a; successfully guess the most identities, b; are the least guessed identities, and c; the combined score of a minus b.

The ball will be carefully moderated to avoid creepy behaviour- attendees will be reminded that we have a private record of who they actually are. We understand that in context character roleplay events like this have long since gone out of style, that many people might not find this interesting, and that plenty of people may be scared away by the accusations levelled at us by certain people (great timing guys). But this is the 10th anniversary of Unknown, balls are what we always used to do to celebrate Founders Day, and you only turn 10 once- so even if nobody outside of Unknown turns up, it'll still run, and we'll still have a ball.

Tim Stark wrote:Let's not forget this is a region that still harbors Savaer as an Admin and member of their Senior Leadership, harbors Kemi (Stalker Queen) as a Global Moderator, and has formerly harbored the likes of Kurosaki.

I'd question how much comfort any player should feel coming to an event in Unknown, and frankly encourage folks to avoid the region for as long as it continues allowing highly questionable individuals, who have been widely banned acrosss GP, into their community.

Very much agreed with Tim on this. Unknown should be blacklisted along with others who harbor those who are a menace to gameplay.

Tim forgot to mention Avakael's own issues that saw him indefinitely banned from the NSGP server, a server that is generally light on moderation.

Cormactopia Prime wrote:

Tim Stark wrote:Let's not forget this is a region that still harbors Savaer as an Admin and member of their Senior Leadership, harbors Kemi (Stalker Queen) as a Global Moderator, and has formerly harbored the likes of Kurosaki.

I'd question how much comfort any player should feel coming to an event in Unknown, and frankly encourage folks to avoid the region for as long as it continues allowing highly questionable individuals, who have been widely banned acrosss GP, into their community.

Very much agreed with Tim on this. Unknown should be blacklisted along with others who harbor those who are a menace to gameplay.

Tim forgot to mention Avakael's own issues that saw him indefinitely banned from the NSGP server, a server that is generally light on moderation.

Their is an element in ns gameplay which so does love to fling mud around. It has been argued that people with things to hide often hide behind the defamation rule in order to prevent their activities being talked about, however what I've seen now is the very real possibility that their are those hiding behind the same said rule to attack other groups or individuals without having to provide such inconvenient truths as evidence or actual accusations.

Klaus Devestatorie wrote:

Drop Your Pants wrote:Will you be getting new forums for the event or will we have to put up with Taptalk?

So back on topic, some thought has gone into this.

• We will be using an entirely separate, and in-context Discord server, and an invite link will be published down the line in the OP of this thread.
• Participants will be invited to show up, using a new account and identity made especially for the ball,
• Participants will need to be masked in order to gain access to the ball, and can get that mask by coming to me with their real account via DMs to let me know which their burner account is.
• We will obviously be using discretion on who we grant masks to, and;
• We will require everyone's burner identities to be the same gender that they usually identify as, and;
• We will be publishing a full list of the real users in the ball (but not their burner accounts, more on why in a second), so people can use their discretion on whether or not they feel comfortable in the room.
  ~
• The ball will rotate through a series of ballrooms and events, celebrating the history of Unknown and Cruor, in which everyone will be participating in in-context.
• The ball will have an overall contest, where everyone will be offered the opportunity at the end of the ball to make guesses about the identities of all others attending the ball;
• The winners will be the people who a; successfully guess the most identities, b; are the least guessed identities, and c; the combined score of a minus b.

The ball will be carefully moderated to avoid creepy behaviour- attendees will be reminded that we have a private record of who they actually are. We understand that in context character roleplay events like this have long since gone out of style, that many people might not find this interesting, and that plenty of people may be scared away by the accusations levelled at us by certain people (great timing guys). But this is the 10th anniversary of Unknown, balls are what we always used to do to celebrate Founders Day, and you only turn 10 once- so even if nobody outside of Unknown turns up, it'll still run, and we'll still have a ball.

I plan to attend the ball however have a question to ask, that is not relevant to me but may be to others:
What are the rules for those who do not identify as a particular gender?

Cormactopia Prime wrote:

Tim Stark wrote:Let's not forget this is a region that still harbors Savaer as an Admin and member of their Senior Leadership, harbors Kemi (Stalker Queen) as a Global Moderator, and has formerly harbored the likes of Kurosaki.

I'd question how much comfort any player should feel coming to an event in Unknown, and frankly encourage folks to avoid the region for as long as it continues allowing highly questionable individuals, who have been widely banned acrosss GP, into their community.

Very much agreed with Tim on this. Unknown should be blacklisted along with others who harbor those who are a menace to gameplay.

Tim forgot to mention Avakael's own issues that saw him indefinitely banned from the NSGP server, a server that is generally light on moderation.

I am entirely open with that issue when asked about it, right down to the exact specifics of the crappy joke that I made, and I will be open here, too.

Under normal circumstances, I would have apologised for it, profusely. I chose not to apologise, because a previous experience in The Brotherhood of Malice with that person led me to believe that she was specifically seeking opportunities to make accusations like that against me for the purposes of getting me removed from the gameplay community. As a result, I concluded that I didn't have any appropriate options to resolve the matter, and instead chose to go down in flames by trying to see if I could successfully defend myself for making the joke, and attacked the user further in the process. My understanding is that it is these latter actions that got me banned from the NSGP server, not the joke itself. If the person in question wants to seek a resolution with me over it, she can come and talk to me and we'll do that ourselves. If the NSGP discord moderators want to discuss the matter with me, they can come and talk to me and we'll do that ourselves. The presence of career ambulance chasers such as yourself will not be necessary.

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:I plan to attend the ball however have a question to ask, that is not relevant to me but may be to others:
What are the rules for those who do not identify as a particular gender?

Then do whatever is comfortable for you. I'm not trying to make everyone wear [M] or [F] tags here, I just want to take precautions against a Brunhilde situation.

Huh. Well it's an interesting idea I'll give yall that

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Their is an element in ns gameplay which so does love to fling mud around. It has been argued that people with things to hide often hide behind the defamation rule in order to prevent their activities being talked about, however what I've seen now is the very real possibility that their are those hiding behind the same said rule to attack other groups or individuals without having to provide such inconvenient truths as evidence or actual accusations.

I have wondered this too, recently, and the trend worries me. The entire thing with The Pacific, especially, felt like everything had been saved up for a coordinated attack, and so I chose to stay far away from the matter and many of the parties that were pushing it. If this works out the same way as that, I won't be impressed, because we're not unreasonable in Unknown- in fact, Kshrlmnt and I have a very long history of choosing to do what we felt was right, instead of what was easy, and we've been burned doing this more times than we can count. If someone has an issue with us over an OOC problem, they should come and talk to us, not start a crusade.

Klaus Devestatorie wrote:

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Their is an element in ns gameplay which so does love to fling mud around. It has been argued that people with things to hide often hide behind the defamation rule in order to prevent their activities being talked about, however what I've seen now is the very real possibility that their are those hiding behind the same said rule to attack other groups or individuals without having to provide such inconvenient truths as evidence or actual accusations.

I have wondered this too, recently, and the trend worries me. The entire thing with The Pacific, especially, felt like everything had been saved up for a coordinated attack, and so I chose to stay far away from the matter and many of the parties that were pushing it. If this works out the same way as that, I won't be impressed, because we're not unreasonable in Unknown- in fact, Kshrlmnt and I have a very long history of choosing to do what we felt was right, instead of what was easy, and we've been burned doing this more times than we can count. If someone has an issue with us over an OOC problem, they should come and talk to us, not start a crusade.

You have a very long and hard road before you.

Cormactopia Prime wrote:

Tim Stark wrote:Let's not forget this is a region that still harbors Savaer as an Admin and member of their Senior Leadership, harbors Kemi (Stalker Queen) as a Global Moderator, and has formerly harbored the likes of Kurosaki.

I'd question how much comfort any player should feel coming to an event in Unknown, and frankly encourage folks to avoid the region for as long as it continues allowing highly questionable individuals, who have been widely banned acrosss GP, into their community.

Very much agreed with Tim on this. Unknown should be blacklisted along with others who harbor those who are a menace to gameplay.

Tim forgot to mention Avakael's own issues that saw him indefinitely banned from the NSGP server, a server that is generally light on moderation.

You disappoint me Cormac. We've had our share of disagreements, but I've always looked up to you as an experienced gameplayer.

We'll start with the first things first: a menace to gameplay. If you're referring to Kemi and Kurosaki (I know neither of these) those points have been addressed by Ava.

Presumably you're referring to Savaer. I've asked you what your reasons were. One sounded very IC to me. That's fine.
But the other thing was a lot more serious. But you didn't know any of the circumstances. You know one thing, which of itself is indeed alarming to say the least, but the context changes a lot. I'm not gonna throw out in public what it was, Savaer will do that himself if he thinks he should. I will say one thing though: he's not what you accuse him of, and the situation is also very different.

And then one last thing: have you lost your fucking mind? You honestly think that Ava or Kshrlmnt, who knew exactly what was going on, are fucked in their head? That they would allow Savaer in if he would be what you're accusing him of? While being on the front row, knowing exactly what happened, you think if you were right they'd allow him back in?

Jar Wattinree wrote:

Klaus Devestatorie wrote:I have wondered this too, recently, and the trend worries me. The entire thing with The Pacific, especially, felt like everything had been saved up for a coordinated attack, and so I chose to stay far away from the matter and many of the parties that were pushing it. If this works out the same way as that, I won't be impressed, because we're not unreasonable in Unknown- in fact, Kshrlmnt and I have a very long history of choosing to do what we felt was right, instead of what was easy, and we've been burned doing this more times than we can count. If someone has an issue with us over an OOC problem, they should come and talk to us, not start a crusade.

You have a very long and hard road before you.

Can't be any longer or harder than what we've faced before.

Otherwise, from now on, I'd like to call an end to the threadjack and return to the ball, if that's possible.

Klaus Devestatorie wrote:Otherwise, from now on, I'd like to call an end to the threadjack and return to the ball, if that's possible.

Discussing who your region chooses to harbor, in a thread about an event your region is hosting, is not a threadjack. It's a more than reasonable discussion of valid concerns about Unknown, grounded in a belief that your region should be blacklisted for its choices of membership.

If the person in question wants to seek a resolution with me over it, she can come and talk to me and we'll do that ourselves.

I believe that translates to: "The individual who I made the personal attacks against is welcome to talk to me about a resolution, because I apparently don't even feel guilty enough to open up the conversation"

Also, Avakael, let's remember that despite your dislike for Kurosaki, Elindra is tight as hell with him, and she's more or less the person who actually calls the shots in Unknown. I've also been informed Unknown was warned, with details, about Kemi multiple times. Who knows, maybe Elindra went over your head.

I look forward to this every year! You’re going all out this time, Ava. I dig it.

Klaus Devestatorie wrote:To this day, not a single person has bothered to enlighten me on what she even did, and I've actually asked around, so I consider efforts today to impeach the character of Unknown based on her former presence to be an intentional smear that you have plotted for some time.

Fun fact, this is a bold-faced fucking lie.

Avakael was a member of the Raider Leadership chat #the-red-phone, where the topic of Kemi arose multiple times. Not only was he present, but he was active during some of those conversations to the point of being the post just before or just after she and her crimes were. So not only did you harbor Kemi, but you knew what she did and are lying here where you say nobody has ever stated or told you those reasons.

Only thing that looks to have been plotted here is your attempt to cover your ass.

I am interested in this.

Carstantinopipal wrote:I am interested in this.

It’ll be a fun event for sure, it always is.

The event server can now be accessed at https://discord.gg/w6McYzv

Access this server only with your burner account, and PM me on Discord via your main account to get masked.

I can be found and PM'd sharing the same server as me. Options include,

https://discord.gg/pr7ZRHT (Unknown)
https://discord.gg/wqU3z8cv (Empire of Mare Nostrum)

For options to use burner accounts, I suggest either downloading the Discord test client, or logging into Discord via a non default internet browser- this will enable you to participate in the ball without giving up the ability to use Discord as normal during the event.

We're suspending this for now. We'd still like to do something to mark our 10th anniversary later down the line, but we didn't leave ourselves (or guests) remotely enough preparation time to make it work; I've been in no mood this week to invest time in rushing it, and half assing it would suck.

There's a ton of OOC accusations that have also been filed in this thread that I'm not going to touch any further in this venue, as the inability to post any associated evidence turns any discussion on the matter into an excruciating farce based on gossip alone.

Awww! I was looking forward to it. But more prep time will be beneficial to all. So there’s that.