Embassy of the NPO

[The Tri State Area and Maine]

Just sneak someone into The Red Phone, they reused the server for their initial APC organization efforts. Yes, that one. The one that TSP completely compromised a year ago.

Or I can just read blatant revisionism being put out by Europeia. It seems we’ve gotten to them since they have to create imagined battles in order to claim activity on the part of the APC. It is a bit sad, really.

but I thought the APC didn't exist

[Pierconium]

Or I can just read blatant revisionism being put out by Europeia. It seems we’ve gotten to them since they have to create imagined battles in order to claim activity on the part of the APC. It is a bit sad, really.

but I thought the APC didn't exist

And me claiming that Europeia is fabricating military action to show activity disputes that how?

[RiderSyl]

but I thought the APC didn't exist

And me claiming that Europeia is fabricating military action to show activity disputes that how?

So they're faking military action to show activity for a fake coalition?

How deep does this conspiracy go?! Is Europeia itself fake? Has it been an illusion this entire time?

[Pierconium]

And me claiming that Europeia is fabricating military action to show activity disputes that how?

So they're faking military action to show activity for a fake coalition?

How deep does this conspiracy go?! Is Europeia itself fake? Has it been an illusion this entire time?

Europeia sent out a dispatch that claims a military victory that never happened. It seems that the ‘Organizers’ of the supposed APC could at least get their stories straight before making things up. But okay, whatever.

[RiderSyl]

Europeia sent out a dispatch that claims a military victory that never happened. It seems that the ‘Organizers’ of the supposed APC could at least get their stories straight before making things up. But okay, whatever.

I haven't seen the dispatch, but I'm assuming it's about St. Abby. If it is... Claiming a victory in a proxy war where one side withdrew is not making anything up.

[Pierconium]

There is a dispatch that claims a military operation removed the NPO. This never occurred.

[Elegarth]

Europeia sent out a dispatch that claims a military victory that never happened. It seems that the ‘Organizers’ of the supposed APC could at least get their stories straight before making things up. But okay, whatever.

I haven't seen the dispatch, but I'm assuming it's about St. Abby. If it is... Claiming a victory in a proxy war where one side withdrew is not making anything up.

So, lying is ok now? So much for the alleged moral superiority of Pacifica's enemies

[Klaus Devestatorie]

Just sneak someone into The Red Phone, they reused the server for their initial APC organization efforts. Yes, that one. The one that TSP completely compromised a year ago.

Or I can just read blatant revisionism being put out by Europeia. It seems we’ve gotten to them since they have to create imagined battles in order to claim activity on the part of the APC. It is a bit sad, really.

Ohoo. Trust me, I learned the hard way about Europeia's relationship with revisionist history.

[King HEM]

I'm confused. If a fort is under siege and the occupying force withdraws to allow the other side to take it, that's not a victory in the war?

The restoration of the rightful government of St. Abbadon was a long-time political and military objective for the enemies of the New Pacific Order.

The fact that the New Pacific Order didn't have the adequate military resources to indefinitely garrison the region against a much superior offensive force and withdrew shows that the region does have competent military commanders who can size up a battlefield. But withdrawing on their own terms doesn't diminish the victory for the otherwise: both symbolic, and otherwise.

[Pierconium]

I'm confused. If a fort is under siege and the occupying force withdraws to allow the other side to take it, that's not a victory in the war?

The restoration of the rightful government of St. Abbadon was a long-time political and military objective for the enemies of the New Pacific Order.

The fact that the New Pacific Order didn't have the adequate military resources to indefinitely garrison the region against a much superior offensive force and withdrew shows that the region does have competent military commanders who can size up a battlefield. But withdrawing on their own terms doesn't diminish the victory for the otherwise: both symbolic, and otherwise.

Nice attempt at spin. The Pacific left St Abbaddon of its own volition because the Delegate could not fulfill their end of the protectorate agreement. At no point was there ever a threat from Europeia or any other region of it actually being taken by force, so your claims of there being a ‘much superior offensive force’ at play is laughable. You couldn’t even convince them to remove NPO nations after we left.

During the period of this supposed ‘war’ no attempt to take St Abbaddon was made because your ‘Organizers’ weren’t competent enough to organise anything. We decided that continuing to prop up a failing Delegate was a waste of time and resources, but that had nothing to do with anything Europeia was a part of.

You are free to claim whatever you like, the bottom line is that I am documented as being opposed to the idea of holding a UCR ‘protectorate’ since the beginning of that fiasco. Once I was in position to do something about it repeated pressure was placed on the Delegate to uphold the agreement. When that failed I pushed for the Senate to dissolve the protectorate agreement. This is because I do know how to organise things to get the results I want.

Good job getting this ‘victory’. I guess you have to find some way to validate your failings and justify your impotent actions against the Pacific.

[Lord Dominator]

During the period of this supposed ‘war’ no attempt to take St Abbaddon was made because your ‘Organizers’ weren’t competent enough to organise anything.

Or maybe because getting 60-something together to all jump, much less on-time against presumably competent BC ROs, even when the recruiting goes beyond the segments presently represented of milGP is essentially impossible

[Deadeye Jack]

During the period of this supposed ‘war’ no attempt to take St Abbaddon was made because your ‘Organizers’ weren’t competent enough to organise anything.

Or maybe because getting 60-something together to all jump, much less on-time against presumably competent BC ROs, even when the recruiting goes beyond the segments presently represented of milGP is essentially impossible

I might have to frame this comment

[Lord Dominator]

Or maybe because getting 60-something together to all jump, much less on-time against presumably competent BC ROs, even when the recruiting goes beyond the segments presently represented of milGP is essentially impossible

I might have to frame this comment

I'm sure you quite appreciate the irony of a raider complaining about the ability getting more than 40 updaters

[King HEM]

I'm confused. If a fort is under siege and the occupying force withdraws to allow the other side to take it, that's not a victory in the war?

The restoration of the rightful government of St. Abbadon was a long-time political and military objective for the enemies of the New Pacific Order.

The fact that the New Pacific Order didn't have the adequate military resources to indefinitely garrison the region against a much superior offensive force and withdrew shows that the region does have competent military commanders who can size up a battlefield. But withdrawing on their own terms doesn't diminish the victory for the otherwise: both symbolic, and otherwise.

Nice attempt at spin. The Pacific left St Abbaddon of its own volition because the Delegate could not fulfill their end of the protectorate agreement. At no point was there ever a threat from Europeia or any other region of it actually being taken by force, so your claims of there being a ‘much superior offensive force’ at play is laughable. You couldn’t even convince them to remove NPO nations after we left.

During the period of this supposed ‘war’ no attempt to take St Abbaddon was made because your ‘Organizers’ weren’t competent enough to organise anything. We decided that continuing to prop up a failing Delegate was a waste of time and resources, but that had nothing to do with anything Europeia was a part of.

You are free to claim whatever you like, the bottom line is that I am documented as being opposed to the idea of holding a UCR ‘protectorate’ since the beginning of that fiasco. Once I was in position to do something about it repeated pressure was placed on the Delegate to uphold the agreement. When that failed I pushed for the Senate to dissolve the protectorate agreement. This is because I do know how to organise things to get the results I want.

Good job getting this ‘victory’. I guess you have to find some way to validate your failings and justify your impotent actions against the Pacific.

I mean, clearly, you are a very competent politician in The New Pacific Order. I've said from the start that The Pacific would've been in a much better position had you been in leadership and not dramatic, subversive ideologues like Pergamon.

If you're angry that Europeia and other regions at war with The New Pacific Order are going to highlight your losses and our victories, fair enough but we are at war. If you're trying to argue that we are being dishonest about this being a political and military victory for the coalition against the Pacific, however, I'm not sure how you can make that point? St. Abbaddon was literally the symbolic spark that started the war, and now the rightful government there has been restored—a primary objective of those at war with The Pacific—has been achieved, it's clearly a "w" for our column.

[New Rogernomics]

Never really got time to reply to the sentiment expressed over regions having different motivations for the war, and the implication that this somehow makes the war against the NPO a disunited front. Generally, I don't really agree with the premise that factions have to be in full agreement to achieve an overall objective. So long as they can find some core things to agree upon, and insist on the dismantling of the New Pacific Order, though whatever means they have at their disposal - diplomatic, militarily, or so on.

I am speaking as a private citizen of course, and not in an official capacity, though from my general understanding, Lazarus is at war with the New Pacific Order, as Lazarus upon being given a conscience vote, decided to reject what the New Pacific Order had presented as inadequate or not sufficiently heart-felt enough to be trusted.

In the case of Lazarus, most came to the conclusion that future diplomatic relations with the New Pacific Order is ultimately impossible for us, so our aim vis-a-vis the New Pacific Order, should be for the New Pacific Order to disband. Ideally for a new government to take power in The Pacific that we can trust, with no attachment to the New Pacific Order, and the problems the leadership have presented. Whether that is achieved voluntarily or through military means, is up to how things progress, or not progress.

Lazarus is in for the long-haul though, and not out of revenge, but out of necessity for the future security of Lazarus as a region, and as a defense against unwanted participation by the New Pacific Order within our own region - with legislation and war measures effectively banning both residents and citizens of the New Pacific Order from active participation in our region.

I don't feel that the offensive action by the APC has to be the only avenue, nor are regions somehow less relevant (or disunited) if they use other means than military measures, diplomatically or otherwise, to seek change in The Pacific.

[Pierconium]

During the period of this supposed ‘war’ no attempt to take St Abbaddon was made because your ‘Organizers’ weren’t competent enough to organise anything.

Or maybe because getting 60-something together to all jump, much less on-time against presumably competent BC ROs, even when the recruiting goes beyond the segments presently represented of milGP is essentially impossible

But aren’t you making my point for me here? Europeia is claiming that they defeated the NPO militarily because we couldn’t stand up to a ‘much superior force’ and yet you acknowledge that no such force exists. Thank you.

As to the other comments, it is a bit odd to state that different parts of a coalition can have separate aims but then state that all parties ‘insist on the dismantling of the New Pacific Order’. Who is doing this insisting? Seems a bit contradictory. Of course, that is to be expected. Lots of people chiming in claiming to be a part of some coalition but no one evidently competent enough to speak for it.

And yet the NPO persists and I remain in the Pacific.

Good job.

[The Gilded Star]

And yet the NPO persists and I remain in the Pacific.

For some reason I read this in the tone of a stubborn old man who refuses to leave his home. Which then inspired this:

[Drop Your Pants]

In the case of Lazarus, most came to the conclusion that future diplomatic relations with the New Pacific Order is ultimately impossible for us, so our aim vis-a-vis the New Pacific Order, should be for the New Pacific Order to disband. Ideally for a new government to take power in The Pacific that we can trust, with no attachment to the New Pacific Order, and the problems the leadership have presented. Whether that is achieved voluntarily or through military means, is up to how things progress, or not progress.

Moderation will freeze over before any of that happens.

[Jar Wattinree]

And yet the NPO persists and I remain in the Pacific.

For some reason I read this in the tone of a stubborn old man who refuses to leave his home. Which then inspired this:

That's the entire Senate.

[Pierconium]

And yet the NPO persists and I remain in the Pacific.

For some reason I read this in the tone of a stubborn old man who refuses to leave his home. Which then inspired this:

I am stubborn.

And thank you for acknowledging that the Pacific is indeed my home.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

During the period of this supposed ‘war’ no attempt to take St Abbaddon was made because your ‘Organizers’ weren’t competent enough to organise anything.

Or maybe because getting 60-something together to all jump, much less on-time against presumably competent BC ROs, even when the recruiting goes beyond the segments presently represented of milGP is essentially impossible

That sounds like your problem. You should know that, because that's the answer that you, everyone in The Black Hawks, and the majority of the rest of the participants in the anti-pacific coalition have given whenever defenders have had exactly the same complaint over the last 7 years.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

Seriously. The only reason why Unibot hasn't already jumped down your throat is because he probably screamed and threw his monitor through a window when he read it.

[Kurnugia]

Nice attempt at spin. The Pacific left St Abbaddon of its own volition because the Delegate could not fulfill their end of the protectorate agreement. At no point was there ever a threat from Europeia or any other region of it actually being taken by force, so your claims of there being a ‘much superior offensive force’ at play is laughable. You couldn’t even convince them to remove NPO nations after we left.

During the period of this supposed ‘war’ no attempt to take St Abbaddon was made because your ‘Organizers’ weren’t competent enough to organise anything. We decided that continuing to prop up a failing Delegate was a waste of time and resources, but that had nothing to do with anything Europeia was a part of.

You are free to claim whatever you like, the bottom line is that I am documented as being opposed to the idea of holding a UCR ‘protectorate’ since the beginning of that fiasco. Once I was in position to do something about it repeated pressure was placed on the Delegate to uphold the agreement. When that failed I pushed for the Senate to dissolve the protectorate agreement. This is because I do know how to organise things to get the results I want.

Good job getting this ‘victory’. I guess you have to find some way to validate your failings and justify your impotent actions against the Pacific.

I mean, clearly, you are a very competent politician in The New Pacific Order. I've said from the start that The Pacific would've been in a much better position had you been in leadership and not dramatic, subversive ideologues like Pergamon.

If you're angry that Europeia and other regions at war with The New Pacific Order are going to highlight your losses and our victories, fair enough but we are at war. If you're trying to argue that we are being dishonest about this being a political and military victory for the coalition against the Pacific, however, I'm not sure how you can make that point? St. Abbaddon was literally the symbolic spark that started the war, and now the rightful government there has been restored—a primary objective of those at war with The Pacific—has been achieved, it's clearly a "w" for our column.

ummmm it's not really a defeat tbh. They held St. Abby for as long as they wanted. I mean how bizarre would it be if the defenders would claim victory each time Europeia withdrew from an occupation? Keep in mind, the new government has other priorities as opposed to the old one.

[Lord Dominator]

Or maybe because getting 60-something together to all jump, much less on-time against presumably competent BC ROs, even when the recruiting goes beyond the segments presently represented of milGP is essentially impossible

But aren’t you making my point for me here? Europeia is claiming that they defeated the NPO militarily because we couldn’t stand up to a ‘much superior force’ and yet you acknowledge that no such force exists. Thank you.

You're welcome I guess, but I was just speaking to competence. Don't really care about your thing with Europeia.

Or maybe because getting 60-something together to all jump, much less on-time against presumably competent BC ROs, even when the recruiting goes beyond the segments presently represented of milGP is essentially impossible

That sounds like your problem. You should know that, because that's the answer that you, everyone in The Black Hawks, and the majority of the rest of the participants in the anti-pacific coalition have given whenever defenders have had exactly the same complaint over the last 7 years.

Really? I don't recall suggesting at any point that defenders should be able to accomplish that level of numbers.

Seriously. The only reason why Unibot hasn't already jumped down your throat is because he probably screamed and threw his monitor through a window when he read it.

Is this supposed to discourage me?

[Yokiria]

If you believe what the NPO is saying about the termination of the treaty with St. Abbaddon, that it truly was a change in policy direction and not a withdrawal from combat, then perhaps it was not a victory for the opponents of the NPO.

If you dismiss what the NPO is saying, then you can quite clearly see that the NPO terminated the treaty with St. Abbaddon so that they could successfully transition the delegacy of The Pacific within the timeframe that their Consul required. If the military force that is in St. Abbaddon stays there under those treaty obligations, then East Durthang is not the delegate of the Pacific today.

There is the NPO's narrative, and then there is the logistical reality of the situation. The NPO was strong-armed into choosing between its protectorate and its delegacy, chose its delegacy, but would have us all believe it could have had both if it wanted.