Embassy of the NPO

[Cormactopia Prime]

So...this "Constitution" gives the Emperor absolute, unchecked power...

What part of "The New Pacific Order is not a democracy" did you not see?

I think the point was nothing much has really changed, despite the claims to the contrary. I'm sure we're all acutely aware the NPO is not a democracy, but there's quite a lot of daylight between democracy and absolute dictatorship. Despite the window dressing, the NPO is still very much the latter, and given the bad choices made by autocrat after autocrat, you'll have to excuse us if we're none too impressed by "reforms" that still keep that fundamental system in place. Nothing has changed about the system. This is still fundamentally the same NPO that attacked our regions, and the core lack of accountability that enables bad behavior is still alive and well. Sorry, but that's not something for anyone to celebrate.

[Jar Wattinree]

What part of "The New Pacific Order is not a democracy" did you not see?

I think the point was nothing much has really changed, despite the claims to the contrary. I'm sure we're all acutely aware the NPO is not a democracy, but there's quite a lot of daylight between democracy and absolute dictatorship. Despite the window dressing, the NPO is still very much the latter, and given the bad choices made by autocrat after autocrat, you'll have to excuse us if we're none too impressed by "reforms" that still keep that fundamental system in place. Nothing has changed about the system. This is still fundamentally the same NPO that attacked our regions, and the core lack of accountability that enables bad behavior is still alive and well. Sorry, but that's not something for anyone to celebrate.

kthx for the commentary, peanuts are all sold out.

[Cormactopia Prime]

I think the point was nothing much has really changed, despite the claims to the contrary. I'm sure we're all acutely aware the NPO is not a democracy, but there's quite a lot of daylight between democracy and absolute dictatorship. Despite the window dressing, the NPO is still very much the latter, and given the bad choices made by autocrat after autocrat, you'll have to excuse us if we're none too impressed by "reforms" that still keep that fundamental system in place. Nothing has changed about the system. This is still fundamentally the same NPO that attacked our regions, and the core lack of accountability that enables bad behavior is still alive and well. Sorry, but that's not something for anyone to celebrate.

kthx for the commentary, peanuts are all sold out.

If you don't want critical commentary, don't post in Gameplay. We're not here to be your adoring fans.

[Jar Wattinree]

kthx for the commentary, peanuts are all sold out.

If you don't want critical commentary, don't post in Gameplay. We're not here to be your adoring fans.

Gaze upon this

We don't exist for your entertainment.

You are right, they exist for YOUR entertainment, while you decide to coup Osiris again, or throw another tantrum somewhere else. The joke here, and I say it without any intent to offend you, as you know I personally appreciate you, C, is that you are NOT BETTER than the people who took the changes Ivan had made and undid them. You are not better than Perg, you are not better than Feux. You simply have a better way to pretend a moral highground.

Is this bad? Is this good? Neither. But it is getting old...

I completely understand that this looks like a repeat of the same old cycle to the outside world. I take responsibility for that. And I know that some people will likely never be satisfied with our changes. But, that is okay. We aren’t doing it for them anyway.

Be skeptical, that's fair given history. I can assure you that many of us wanted changes and reforms, and many of us gave input that was heeded and discussed. Yes, there are maybe a few people who like Francoism, but there's a large many who do not care for it at all or are regionalist and think Francoism is an exaggerated regionalist stance and isn't necessarily needed.

I'm not looking forward to couping, subversion, and spying coming back, I honestly don't think it' was necessary for the NPO even before all this stuff came about. I'm not the only one. Those of us who feel that way will fight it if it reared up again later. Maybe we all get exiled or we don't by some Emperor down the line, idk, but we aren't going to become some democracy or whatever ideal vision you or other outsiders have.

Again be skeptical, don't trust us, whatever. Fine. Don't claim this or that will happen, or do you have proof from the future it will? Assume it all you want, that's fair. Germany practically started two world wars, I guess they'll start the third one too.

Um... was it really that funny?

[The Gilded Star]

kthx for the commentary, peanuts are all sold out.

So you condescendingly ask a question, someone answers in earnest, and then you condescendingly dismiss the answer as unsolicted.

Some of y'all seem so desperate to hold the ground of smug superiority under any circumstance that you have a habit of not even making any conversational sense.

[Jar Wattinree]

kthx for the commentary, peanuts are all sold out.

So you condescendingly ask a question, someone answers in earnest, and then you condescendingly dismiss the answer as unsolicted.

1): Some people like to ask questions that are hilarious because a) these questions have been answered b) and are ignorant considering the subject matter
2): Someone's "critical commentary" is hypocritical considering their own unsavory past (some examples present in this very thread)
3): Ibid

[Unibot III]

NPO apparently can’t decide whether this development is a liberal reform worth international praise or an internal change with little consequence, whose introduction here was presumably intended to elicit an apathetic response.

My two final cents on the matter: Francoism has been an enormous success in defining the continued rationale for the New Pacific Order; the alternatives in the past, gobbledygook and egoism, strongly suggest the NPO will lazily give up its efforts to replace Francoism a year in, and return to Francoism when Ivan has less sway with the Emperor.

The change to the Charter is superficial. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised to see the Emperor forget all about it, replace the Charter unilaterally, and find no one had the balls to dissent.

[Zaolat]

NPO apparently can’t decide whether this development is a liberal reform worth international praise or an internal change with little consequence, whose introduction here was presumably intended to elicit an apathetic response.

My two final cents on the matter: Francoism has been an enormous success in defining the continued rationale for the New Pacific Order; the alternatives in the past, gobbledygook and egoism, strongly suggest the NPO will lazily give up its efforts to replace Francoism a year in, and return to Francoism when Ivan has less sway with the Emperor.

The change to the Charter is superficial. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised to see the Emperor forget all about it, replace the Charter unilaterally, and find no one had the balls to dissent.

If LoD remains Emperor for an entire year, with or without Ivan around, I highly doubt this occurring. I also think when LoD abdicates, his chosen successor would probably be someone with little interest to restore it either. After that, who knows? I do think my fellow comrades, would not appreciate someone down the line doing such unilaterally. In this case it isn't entirely unilaterally, I do believe plenty of the Body Republic would voice against making a choice to play the way things had been.

You don't have to believe me. Some people here will take maybe part of my word or accept that they think I believe my words are true at least. Obviously, like you, I don't actually know what's going to be in store for the future since we aren't there yet to see it. We can make assumptions based on history, words, and actions.

I can tell you, I've gotten to know a lot more people. All this stuff has brought us together, and not in a negative way some people think. In doing this, I got to see what people inside truly think and discuss such things. While I can't say we will ever intentional appease anyone or be super friends, I do think there are plenty of efforts to make things better. No, that doesn't mean a democracy or anything, but we've had good reason to think out plenty of things.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

This is an interesting take. Perg, Feux and friends took the time to infiltrate several communities, abusing them again and again repeatedly for their own kicks. Say whatever you like about Cormac, but I don't think you'd find him masquerading as a prominent member of any community under an assumed name.

This seems like a false equivalence.

I agree that Feux would definitely be a false equivalence. Oh wow, espionage and subversion for political interests is so evil! I do agree the NPO should not partake in it, but I guess you've never heard of Imperialists before?

I'm pretty sure I coined the term Ondersphere, so I'm not sure why you thought this was an effective rebuttal, considering my history of opposing imperialists.

Or, how about other meanies. You know raiders or well anything that's "bad"? None of that will ever go away fully. While the bad ooc elements should be anathema, the ic ones is just playing the game, in you know a nation simulator where we tend to make facets that go beyond the base mechanics of the game. Something Cormac has ironically lamented about in the past, how we don't play the game anymore but just throw shade and have people doing sick shit.

You mean OOC stuff like this? Or this?

Additionally, Elegarth said nothing about Cormac being like Perg, Feux, et al. He said he is no better. I'm sure he'd believe pretty much anyone is no better than anyone else. A lot of people in Gameplay have done stuff people didn't like or thought was bad. They've also done good stuff, in general or for their regions. They've said stupid things and other times said good things. Elegarth can correct me if I'm wrong I guess.

Then Elegarth is downplaying the issues and actions Feux and Perg and friends have caused multiple regions.

[Roavin]

You mean OOC stuff like this?

That was taken out of context, see here.

[Jar Wattinree]

You mean OOC stuff like this?

That was taken out of context, see here.

Ninja'd.

[Yokiria]

Very impressive, Roavin. Beating the NPO Senate to their own talking points.

Regarding the log being "out of context":

In the linked dispatch by Yuno, the added bits of that chat log contained two things of note. Pergamon giving an example of how to succeed in the game using harmful out-of-character methods, and Pergamon stating one can either use those out-of-character methods or use the relatively unattractive (and as he said, often-refused) method of success that the NPO provides. After those bits are added in Yuno's dispatch, Yuno goes on to provide an alternate, less incriminating theory on Pergamon, and does so admittedly out of anger towards those accusing Perg and hopefulness towards Perg's innocence. It does not provide important missing context. It only provides an emotional narration by an emotionally-motivated person.

Instead of actual evidence that the initial screenshot was clearly out of context, what you have really pointed to is a well-intentioned dispatch that very well misinforms. Pergamon is currently serving his punishment in the NS branch of the NPO because he was attempting to succeed in this game via OOC means. He clearly thought it was an okay way to get ahead. He was wrong. I would advise Senator Wattinree and those carrying water for the NPO not to continue their attempts at excusing Pergamon's words and actions. It will be tough for LoD to bury all of these hatchets with you continually digging them up.

[Ctesiphonis]

Pergamon is currently serving his punishment in the NS branch of the NPO because he was attempting to succeed in this game via OOC means.

Pergamon is banned from the New Pacific Order in Nationstates.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Very impressive, Roavin. Beating the NPO Senate to their own talking points.

It's what he does.

Pergamon is currently serving his punishment in the NS branch of the NPO because he was attempting to succeed in this game via OOC means.

Pergamon is banned from the New Pacific Order in Nationstates.

Yes, that would be the punishment to which Yokiria was referring.

[Unibot III]

NPO apparently can’t decide whether this development is a liberal reform worth international praise or an internal change with little consequence, whose introduction here was presumably intended to elicit an apathetic response.

My two final cents on the matter: Francoism has been an enormous success in defining the continued rationale for the New Pacific Order; the alternatives in the past, gobbledygook and egoism, strongly suggest the NPO will lazily give up its efforts to replace Francoism a year in, and return to Francoism when Ivan has less sway with the Emperor.

The change to the Charter is superficial. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised to see the Emperor forget all about it, replace the Charter unilaterally, and find no one had the balls to dissent.

If LoD remains Emperor for an entire year, with or without Ivan around, I highly doubt this occurring. I also think when LoD abdicates, his chosen successor would probably be someone with little interest to restore it either. After that, who knows? I do think my fellow comrades, would not appreciate someone down the line doing such unilaterally. In this case it isn't entirely unilaterally, I do believe plenty of the Body Republic would voice against making a choice to play the way things had been.

You don't have to believe me. Some people here will take maybe part of my word or accept that they think I believe my words are true at least. Obviously, like you, I don't actually know what's going to be in store for the future since we aren't there yet to see it. We can make assumptions based on history, words, and actions.

I can tell you, I've gotten to know a lot more people. All this stuff has brought us together, and not in a negative way some people think. In doing this, I got to see what people inside truly think and discuss such things. While I can't say we will ever intentional appease anyone or be super friends, I do think there are plenty of efforts to make things better. No, that doesn't mean a democracy or anything, but we've had good reason to think out plenty of things.

The major thing being overlooked is you don't need an Emperor to be pro-Franco for Francoism to creep back into common usage. The level of apathy of the Emperor and the turnover of senators can decide these internal political changes, oftentimes slowly and unconsciously.

Francoism is an attractive and compelling world view that brings recruits in NS to the NPO. Subsequently, it's a snowball that's been devilishly challenging for its critics in the NPO to unwind since it's started to roll.

It's thought the dictatorship facilitates camaraderie: the "bunker" mentality of a group under international siege brings insiders together, the access to internal secrets rewards loyalty and engenders feelings of association. But I think a lot of it's false, the dictatorship is a big elephant in the room that disrupts camaraderie. NPO can be a nice home for friends in spite of the dictatorship - not because of it. The unilateral power of the emperor pits each insider against one another - raising the value of the individual relationship between the emperor and the insider while ultimately diminishing the value of contribution and commitment.

I think the nature of the NPO from the inside changes when you start to see people close to you or you yourself get into the emperor's crosshairs, like the Hemingway quote: "When you go to war as a boy you have a great illusion of immortality. Other people get killed; not you ... Then when you are badly wounded the first time you lose that illusion and you know it can happen to you."

I also think the regions with the most camaraderie internally, tend to be more liberalised autocracies, regionalist in nature. That's what Feux and Milograd brought to the PRL - and I think that's what they prefer - and it's also what Osiris and TWP have enjoyed at various points in time. It combines the group psychology of a besieged collective with the personal and political freedom of most other GCRs.

[Pierconium]

So many people that are not in the NPO have opinions on what the NPO will do in the future. And yet many of those same people like to comment on how the NPO is failing and unimportant. It is a mystery.

Regardless, since it continues to be a topic of conversation, some of the points made are correct. I have thrice attempted to remove Francoism from the NPO and thrice subsequent administrations allowed it to return. But, each time it returned it was just window dressing on whatever cultural dynamic those particular individuals were pushing at the time. When Proper Francoist Thought was compiled through a mishmash of plagarised socialist theory the world was very different. Those claiming to use it as a mandate for perpetuating attacks against other GCRs have failed in their interpretation, in my opinion. This is aside from the fact that it was simply a propaganda tool that has long ago outlived its usefulness.

When it was written, the ADN, lead by a few prominent UCRs, controlled two very active GCRs, the other two were more or less non-political, the Sinkers did not exist, and the invader/defender dynamic was much different. The AA had collapsed, (old) DEN was not very effective, and the NPO became the existential threat that the ADN needed to maintain their control. PFT was a response to the threat posed by that group. It outlined the idea of a class struggle between those in the UCRs and those in the GCRs. It became a rallying cry against those seeking to oppose the NPO.

But, Francoism was not a mandate to spread discord in the other GCRs. The actions that took place in the far distant past within TNP, and to a much much lesser extent within TWP, were part of an ongoing war with the ADN. Once their influence was removed, relations were largely normalised between the GCRs. I have always found it unfortunate that so many believed that the outward actions that were part of a war were somehow necessary components of Pacifican ideals.

The resurgences of Francoism over the years ignore or modify the tenents to fit the desired outcome. The Sinkers, because they are generally weaker (tactically, not culturally), are a natural target for nations that have a skewed concept of what it means to be ‘Francoist’, whatever that actually means. The idea of spreading Francoism has been used as a cover for pushing private egotistical ambition for a very long time.

Luckily, most of the newer generation of the NPO have not bought in to the concept of Francoism. It is my sincere hope that this time I will be successful in seeing it firmly out the door.

[New Rogernomics]

What part of "The New Pacific Order is not a democracy" did you not see?

I think the point was nothing much has really changed, despite the claims to the contrary. I'm sure we're all acutely aware the NPO is not a democracy, but there's quite a lot of daylight between democracy and absolute dictatorship. Despite the window dressing, the NPO is still very much the latter, and given the bad choices made by autocrat after autocrat, you'll have to excuse us if we're none too impressed by "reforms" that still keep that fundamental system in place. Nothing has changed about the system. This is still fundamentally the same NPO that attacked our regions, and the core lack of accountability that enables bad behavior is still alive and well. Sorry, but that's not something for anyone to celebrate.

I don't really concern myself with the NPO, in the sense that I don't think they will change to any kind of non-interventionist position vis-a-vis GCRs or UCRs, as the NPO will always do what is 'best for the NPO', in their opinion. Something that the NPO seems to admit off-site and on-site.

Ultimately what other regions should do is keep positive, and improve and protect their regions, as best they can, and not get sucked into the propaganda trap*. It is real easy to allow a conflict or confrontation to wind you up, and lose track of what really matters, as despite what the NPO may or may not be doing, effectively the NPO 'wins', if the UCR or GCR you are a part of becomes stagnant or divided, which is really how any hypothetical enemy region gets an opportunity to strike or infiltrate.

Regardless of what happens with the NPO war, I am interested in seeing the Lazarene community grow organically from this point on, and leaving it to those in Lazarus who have the expertise to handle the military matters.

*Where instead of doing propaganda for fun, or to make a legitimate point, it becomes a bitter mud-slinging contest, with prizes for the most silly propaganda spin.

[The Seeker of Power]

I must say I like what you say New Rog. We all should try to do what we think is better for our regions, I agree.

I've personally always been against interventionism in other regions, and I've always believed it was a terrible misinterpretation of an ideology I didn't agreed with in the first place... /me shrugs

Index updated

--------------------------

Edit:
I'm legally required to make this statement:

"Defenders are the best!"*

----

*Restrictions apply. My opinions may not actually be mine, but legal requirements in exchange for Hex Color Codes. All rights (and lefts) reserved.

[Lord Dominator]

What about centers?

[Jar Wattinree]

What about centers?

Those don't exist.

[New Rogernomics]

What about centers?

Those don't exist.

News just in, NPO scorns 'Centers', Geometry Under Threat.

[KhanterWinters]

Now that making new themes is a fashion way.
Why not let to die NPO and that francoism, and just not build a new Theme for TP
Then, everyone can be friend again, and everyone can grab the other hand, and sing around a rainbow.

[Pierconium]

Now that making new themes is a fashion way.
Why not let to die NPO and that francoism, and just not build a new Theme for TP
Then, everyone can be friend again, and everyone can grab the other hand, and sing around a rainbow.

I'm not really the holding hands type.

[Yokiria]

Now that making new themes is a fashion way.
Why not let to die NPO and that francoism, and just not build a new Theme for TP
Then, everyone can be friend again, and everyone can grab the other hand, and sing around a rainbow.

I'm not really the holding hands type.

Don't believe him, Khanter. He's a Tsundere.

[Clonegarth 008]

Those don't exist.

News just in, NPO scorns 'Centers', Geometry Under Threat.

Geometry shall taste the edge of our modern bayonets!!! ARRRRRRHHHH!