Embassy of the NPO

[Elegarth]

The ignorant will always use ignorant arguments. Regardless of what the gossipy lies and the lying gossips say, no emperor has expelled people just for disagreeing. Hell, I've advocated to burn Francoism for years lol.

So yeah, get a grip. The Pacific never intended to be a democracy, we never said we were becoming a democracy, etc. There is no issue to solve: we are neither the first non democratic region nor the only non democratic region. You need to come back to 2019.

[Jar Wattinree]

Citizens don't even gain any more power. I guess they can formally suggest stuff to the Emperor, but that's about it.

If anything, this probably worsens the issue of democracy, as the Emperor now has a way to figure out who the opposition is.

When has the New Pacific Order been democratic?

[Cormactopia Prime]

I see we're still doing the reform act. Yawn.

[East Durthang]

Citizens don't even gain any more power. I guess they can formally suggest stuff to the Emperor, but that's about it.

If anything, this probably worsens the issue of democracy, as the Emperor now has a way to figure out who the opposition is.

You seem to have missed the part where the Emperor can no longer amend the charter at their leisure without a citizen vote.

[The Gilded Star]

Barring exceptional circumstances, the Emperor will also serve as the World Assembly Delegate.

Amusingly succinct fix to that issue.

[Lord Dominator]

At least the indication that there's a move towards some form of standard ruling format is nice

[Pierconium]

At least the indication that there's a move towards some form of standard ruling format is nice

Yes. This along with the statement from the Emperor above is an important difference. Establishing a succinct and clear Charter that cannot be altered without a vote of the citizenry is a significant change to the way the Pacific is governed. We have also removed Francoism from the Charter.

There are further changes undergoing the final stages of development. We are defining the government and looking into a means to provide some level of checks and balances within it.

[Old Hope]

I see we're still doing the reform act. Yawn.

The removal of Francoism in the Charter is not something minor, Cormac.

[Malphe]

I see we're still doing the reform act. Yawn.

The removal of Francoism in the Charter is not something minor, Cormac.

Well in fairness, removing Francoism has already happened under Moldavi. It just came back once his delegacy was over.

Hopefully this time around it'll stay gone and the other changes will stick but I don't blame Cormac for the skepticism.

[Frattastan IV]

I have hazy memories of something similar happening under Krulltopia too.

Don't remember the extent of it or whether there was a special announcement, but "Founder: Francos Spain" and "birthplace of The New Pacific Order" were removed from the WFE, and the Pacific signed up to the "Sovereign Confederation" (an alliance with UCRs - Gatesville, Equilism... and Unknown?). Hence, this.

[Cormactopia Prime]

I see we're still doing the reform act. Yawn.

The removal of Francoism in the Charter is not something minor, Cormac.

Everything is something minor when it's all happened, and been reversed, before. Francoism has been removed from the NPO's documentation before. The NPO has given its citizens more input in the past. Many of these changes did occur after controversy, only to be later reversed. I'm not falling into the trap of believing all this nonsense again only to find later, just as the last time and the time before that, that it's just another sham.

There is nothing remarkable about any of this. This is what the NPO does when its back is against the wall to try to fool the regions it no doubt continues to target for subversion and will target for subversion in the future into complacency. Nobody should care about any of this, or fall for any of it -- least of all the user-created regions that the NPO has, throughout nearly its entire history, dismissed as part of the "Feederite diaspora" at best or "userite" subversives at worst. They can take Francoism out of their charter, but they can't take it out of their history. The Francoist worldview is deeply embedded in the political culture of the NPO. You can't embrace an ideology for 15 years and then just remove it from a constitution and declare it dead. That's not how communities of people work. Top-down change like this will last for one Emperor, at best, and that's assuming this isn't all just an intentional scam.

[Big Bad Badger]

This is getting to be a tiresome tirade, Cormac. Time to find a new windmill to chase.

[Cormactopia Prime]

This is getting to be a tiresome tirade, Cormac. Time to find a new windmill to chase.

I suppose Malphe and Fratt were just tilting at windmills as well? Or perhaps all three of us were making salient points about the NPO's history.

I have no intention of dropping my opposition to the NPO because anyone is bored with it. Neither does Pacifica. We don't exist for your entertainment.

[The Seeker of Power]

I have hazy memories of something similar happening under Krulltopia too.

Don't remember the extent of it or whether there was a special announcement, but "Founder: Francos Spain" and "birthplace of The New Pacific Order" were removed from the WFE, and the Pacific signed up to the "Sovereign Confederation" (an alliance with UCRs - Gatesville, Equilism... and Unknown?). Hence, this.

Yup, your memory is actually correct.

This is getting to be a tiresome tirade, Cormac. Time to find a new windmill to chase.

I suppose Malphe and Fratt were just tilting at windmills as well? Or perhaps all three of us were making salient points about the NPO's history.

I have no intention of dropping my opposition to the NPO because anyone is bored with it. Neither does Pacifica. We don't exist for your entertainment.

You are right, they exist for YOUR entertainment, while you decide to coup Osiris again, or throw another tantrum somewhere else. The joke here, and I say it without any intent to offend you, as you know I personally appreciate you, C, is that you are NOT BETTER than the people who took the changes Ivan had made and undid them. You are not better than Perg, you are not better than Feux. You simply have a better way to pretend a moral highground.

Is this bad? Is this good? Neither. But it is getting old...

[Myrth]

We don't exist for your entertainment.

But your obsession with us and constant hot air is so very entertaining.

[Pierconium]

We don't exist for your entertainment.

Edit: Myrth beat me to it.

Anyway, why would our ‘backs be against the wall’? Things are going fairly well for the Pacific these days.

Regardless, there are more changes in the works. Stay tuned.

[Malphe]

We don't exist for your entertainment.

Edit: Myrth beat me to it.

Anyway, why would our ‘backs be against the wall’? Things are going fairly well for the Pacific these days.

Regardless, there are more changes in the works. Stay tuned.

I think a lot of the mentality about the current changes is that it's just a part of the cycle. NPO gets into big controversy, makes changes to save face, once it's in a more comfortable position it reverts to the old positions with Francoism and more authority to the Emperor, all that stuff, does all the same things and gets into another big controversy. Personally I can't really poke a big hole in that mentality, beyond that hopefully it doesn't ring true this time around.
(Looking forward to future developments n stuff btw)

[Pierconium]

Edit: Myrth beat me to it.

Anyway, why would our ‘backs be against the wall’? Things are going fairly well for the Pacific these days.

Regardless, there are more changes in the works. Stay tuned.

I think a lot of the mentality about the current changes is that it's just a part of the cycle. NPO gets into big controversy, makes changes to save face, once it's in a more comfortable position it reverts to the old positions with Francoism and more authority to the Emperor, all that stuff, does all the same things and gets into another big controversy. Personally I can't really poke a big hole in that mentality, beyond that hopefully it doesn't ring true this time around.
(Looking forward to future developments n stuff btw)

The problem with the last two times is that I thought I could come in, make a series of changes via command decisions, and then leave without the necessary follow through that is needed to facilitate lasting change.

This time around, the Senate as a whole worked with the citizenry to rewrite the Charter. It was a collective effort instead of a top-down declaration. Also, I have decided to stay around long enough to make certain, at least insofar as I am personally capable, that these changes take root. We have also set in motion more substantial changes that will provide more input from the citizenry that will be coming soon.

I completely understand that this looks like a repeat of the same old cycle to the outside world. I take responsibility for that. And I know that some people will likely never be satisfied with our changes. But, that is okay. We aren’t doing it for them anyway.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

One does wonder just how rattled Cormac must have the NPO, considering the bevvy of NPOers - and wannabes, hi Old Hope - turn out every time he posts.

You are right, they exist for YOUR entertainment, while you decide to coup Osiris again, or throw another tantrum somewhere else. The joke here, and I say it without any intent to offend you, as you know I personally appreciate you, C, is that you are NOT BETTER than the people who took the changes Ivan had made and undid them. You are not better than Perg, you are not better than Feux. You simply have a better way to pretend a moral highground.

This is an interesting take. Perg, Feux and friends took the time to infiltrate several communities, abusing them again and again repeatedly for their own kicks. Say whatever you like about Cormac, but I don't think you'd find him masquerading as a prominent member of any community under an assumed name.

This seems like a false equivalence.

[Unibot III]

Cormac is right to dismiss these reforms.

The NPO has explictly rejected Francoism every time Moldavi has taken the reins of power. This policy change has been consistently reversed, in an almost amnesiac manner, since its continued implementation post-2005.

Does anyone remember that post-materialism "disapora" thesis, during the Krull years?

I'm not sure what the particular value is in saying the Emperor cannot change the Charter. Why would the Emperor want to change a Charter that grants them almost full discretion, including powers to amend the nature of the Charter as a pseudo-amendment?

• "The Emperor and Regent cannot be expelled from the Order by Body Republic vote. The Emperor can pardon any member that is expelled via this process. The Emperor can expel any member without a vote."
  
• "The Emperor can create, alter, or abolish any office; appoint or dismiss any member of the Order to any office; and delegate power to any office to the extent that he or she deems appropriate. Such offices may, at the Emperor's discretion, create subordinate positions, delegate power to said positions, and appoint members of the Order to them."
  
• "The Emperor must consent to all amendments to the Charter. If the Emperor vetoes an amendment, he or she must publicly explain the reasons for the veto to the Body Republic."

The only real, practical constitutional limitation on the Emperor is they're expected to not unilaterally suspend the New Pacific Order, which was always the de facto expectation and a matter for which the region has always been hopelessly dependent on the whims and fancies of its leaders.

[Zaolat]

• "The Emperor and Regent cannot be expelled from the Order by Body Republic vote. The Emperor can pardon any member that is expelled via this process. The Emperor can expel any member without a vote."
  
• "The Emperor can create, alter, or abolish any office; appoint or dismiss any member of the Order to any office; and delegate power to any office to the extent that he or she deems appropriate. Such offices may, at the Emperor's discretion, create subordinate positions, delegate power to said positions, and appoint members of the Order to them."
  
• "The Emperor must consent to all amendments to the Charter. If the Emperor vetoes an amendment, he or she must publicly explain the reasons for the veto to the Body Republic."

Okay, so what? We're not a democracy. We don't really want one.

This is an interesting take. Perg, Feux and friends took the time to infiltrate several communities, abusing them again and again repeatedly for their own kicks. Say whatever you like about Cormac, but I don't think you'd find him masquerading as a prominent member of any community under an assumed name.

This seems like a false equivalence.

I agree that Feux would definitely be a false equivalence. Oh wow, espionage and subversion for political interests is so evil! I do agree the NPO should not partake in it, but I guess you've never heard of Imperialists before? Or, how about other meanies. You know raiders or well anything that's "bad"? None of that will ever go away fully. While the bad ooc elements should be anathema, the ic ones is just playing the game, in you know a nation simulator where we tend to make facets that go beyond the base mechanics of the game. Something Cormac has ironically lamented about in the past, how we don't play the game anymore but just throw shade and have people doing sick shit.

Additionally, Elegarth said nothing about Cormac being like Perg, Feux, et al. He said he is no better. I'm sure he'd believe pretty much anyone is no better than anyone else. A lot of people in Gameplay have done stuff people didn't like or thought was bad. They've also done good stuff, in general or for their regions. They've said stupid things and other times said good things. Elegarth can correct me if I'm wrong I guess.

Everything is something minor when it's all happened, and been reversed, before. Francoism has been removed from the NPO's documentation before. The NPO has given its citizens more input in the past. Many of these changes did occur after controversy, only to be later reversed. I'm not falling into the trap of believing all this nonsense again only to find later, just as the last time and the time before that, that it's just another sham.

There is nothing remarkable about any of this. This is what the NPO does when its back is against the wall to try to fool the regions it no doubt continues to target for subversion and will target for subversion in the future into complacency. Nobody should care about any of this, or fall for any of it -- least of all the user-created regions that the NPO has, throughout nearly its entire history, dismissed as part of the "Feederite diaspora" at best or "userite" subversives at worst. They can take Francoism out of their charter, but they can't take it out of their history. The Francoist worldview is deeply embedded in the political culture of the NPO. You can't embrace an ideology for 15 years and then just remove it from a constitution and declare it dead. That's not how communities of people work. Top-down change like this will last for one Emperor, at best, and that's assuming this isn't all just an intentional scam.

Be skeptical, that's fair given history. I can assure you that many of us wanted changes and reforms, and many of us gave input that was heeded and discussed. Yes, there are maybe a few people who like Francoism, but there's a large many who do not care for it at all or are regionalist and think Francoism is an exaggerated regionalist stance and isn't necessarily needed.

I'm not looking forward to couping, subversion, and spying coming back, I honestly don't think it' was necessary for the NPO even before all this stuff came about. I'm not the only one. Those of us who feel that way will fight it if it reared up again later. Maybe we all get exiled or we don't by some Emperor down the line, idk, but we aren't going to become some democracy or whatever ideal vision you or other outsiders have.

Again be skeptical, don't trust us, whatever. Fine. Don't claim this or that will happen, or do you have proof from the future it will? Assume it all you want, that's fair. Germany practically started two world wars, I guess they'll start the third one too.

[Elegarth]

You are correct Zao

[Ryccia]

So...this "Constitution" gives the Emperor absolute, unchecked power...

In other news, the sun rose this morning. What is even the purpose of this faux-reform? The changes here, apart from the formal removal of Francoism from their Constitution, are cosmetic and thus irrelevant. As far as I know, a culture that has helped to create the rampant violation of sovereignty of many regions by the NPO remains, and putting on make-up will not serve to alter this norm. This is just a repeated strategy, a tale in the making:

Step 1: NPO flagrantly violates the sovereignty of other regions and interferes in their affairs.
Step 2: People, including victims, either find out or are directly impacted by this subversion and manipulation.
Step 3: NPO "apologizes" to the world, "promising" to "reform" (Note: May include purging of some people, but the system is unchanged).
Step 4: NPO hopes that cosmetic changes fool the world once more, and that things cool down after a while.
Step 5: Repeat

Well, guess what, it will not work this time. I surely hope so. For the NPO to be ever trusted again, for it to ever change, it must suffer a drastic and radical transformation. Otherwise, even if it is somehow unintentional, it is doomed to recycle this old and tired tactic. What a shame.

[Jar Wattinree]

So...this "Constitution" gives the Emperor absolute, unchecked power...

What part of "The New Pacific Order is not a democracy" did you not see?

[Zaolat]

So...this "Constitution" gives the Emperor absolute, unchecked power...

In other news, the sun rose this morning. What is even the purpose of this faux-reform? The changes here, apart from the formal removal of Francoism from their Constitution, are cosmetic and thus irrelevant. As far as I know, a culture that has helped to create the rampant violation of sovereignty of many regions by the NPO remains, and putting on make-up will not serve to alter this norm. This is just a repeated strategy, a tale in the making:

Step 1: NPO flagrantly violates the sovereignty of other regions and interferes in their affairs.
Step 2: People, including victims, either find out or are directly impacted by this subversion and manipulation.
Step 3: NPO "apologizes" to the world, "promising" to "reform" (Note: May include purging of some people, but the system is unchanged).
Step 4: NPO hopes that cosmetic changes fool the world once more, and that things cool down after a while.
Step 5: Repeat

Well, guess what, it will not work this time. I surely hope so. For the NPO to be ever trusted again, for it to ever change, it must suffer a drastic and radical transformation. Otherwise, even if it is somehow unintentional, it is doomed to recycle this old and tired tactic. What a shame.

Point 1: Emperor has always already had "absolute power". Again, we're not a democracy and never claimed we were or anything else.

Point 2: The reforms weren't for your pleasure or well anyone not in the NPO. We wanted to change things regardless. Some have been wanting changes before and others after the backlash. Either way, the Body Republic felt changes should be made, for us. If some of those changes and future changes are in line with what outsiders want or like, it's at because most of us also feel that way or it's coincidental.

Point 3: What culture? Have you been involved in the internal discussions and able to observe them? Or is this just assumptions turned into claims without proof?

Point 4: Either you want the NPO to be exactly what's ideal to you or you're steadfast in thinking it will always remain epitome of whatever evils you believe. Well again, we aren't going to change anything, for, an outsider like you. If it's the latter, well, what's the point in caring anymore?