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NationStates Today
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Posts: 84
Founded: Dec 23, 2018
Ex-Nation

The Board's Response to Demands and a Threat from Lazarus

Postby NationStates Today » Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:46 pm

On June 16, JoWhatup, Managing Director (Prime Minister) of Lazarus, sent the following message to our Public Relations Director, Wymondham, in relation to messages sent in a forum thread accessible by all 53 citizens in Lazarus.

Image

It is important to note that NationStates Today was contacted by a current citizen of Lazarus without prompting with the details of the ‘leaks’ in question, with the relevance being to an article that was being written regarding the Better Together accords between The West Pacific and the New Pacific Order, and the treaty of Skandia between Balder and the New Pacific Order. The leaks in question related to a discussion regarding said treaties within Lazarus citizen only channels. As is our standard policy, joWhatup was asked to provide a statement on the issue before the article was published so as to ensure all sides of the argument were expressed, which led to the above response.

When considering leaks, we always weigh up any relevant out of character concerns, including safeguarding or moderation, before evaluating the in character value. Our ultimate goal is to be responsible from the OOC perspective, and then follow clear leak guidelines. These include verification of the information, the provenance of the source, and any desire by the source to remain anonymous. In addition, we ensure that leaks are considered within secure channels to ensure our compliance with standard journalistic values.

Such a procedure ensures that we do not publish leaks willy nilly, or without careful consideration. In some cases, this means we will not publish leaks at all.

Yet, factors that we don’t consider when discussing the publishability of leaks is threats from players, no matter their position, or the criminal code of a region which claims to prevent our publishing of the information over claims of espionage. Section 5 of our Charter demands that we counteract attempts at censorship, and the Board believes that the message joWhatup sent to our Public Relations Director is a blatant attempt at just that.

We say this, because after receiving the above threat from joWhatup we were contacted by Ryccia, the Lazarene Foreign Minister, who demanded, on the threat of prosecution as an organisation in Lazarus, that we not publish the leaks. We informed the Foreign Minister that we had no intention of complying with the Lazarene government’s request, in addition to reminding them that we are bound by the aforementioned Charter provisions to counteract attempts at censorship.

Regions cannot operate in the murky waters of silencing news organisations trying to publish stories they disagree with, without also being guilty of censorship. Indeed, in our previously outlined discussions with Ryccia on this matter it was claimed that they did “not wish to suppress the free press” while simultaneously doubling down on their demand for us not to publish the leaks in question.

In relation to joWhatup and Ryccia’s claim that NSToday’s leaking of the aforementioned information would be tantamount to espionage, we of course disagree. Leaks in relation to known treaty concerns in major GCRs are a major gameplay story, and if we have information provided to us in such a matter we have a duty to report on it. Further, a neutral news organisation is not committing espionage if it reports on leaks provided to it, and so claims to that effect have no merit in our view. Indeed, the whole purpose of our organisation being free from regional control is to prevent us from being silenced due to any one region’s criminal code or foreign affairs policy.

We would of course be saddened by any loss of our friendly relationship with Lazarus, especially if it was in circumstances such as these. Both residents of Lazarus and our readership would be worse off without that (we helped run their Prime Ministerial debate recently), however we cannot, and will not, consider sacrificing the basics of our journalistic values on that basis.

So, our response to joWhatup and the Lazarene government is clear: we will not be threatened over any leaks we may be processing. If there were OOC concerns, we would invite feedback from any concerned parties, but in this case we cannot see that being relevant, nor the focus of the demands from the Lazarene officials we conversed with.

To our staff, we say: we will defend you if you are threatened over IC leaks, and you should know we will not bend to threats. To the wider community, we urge you to remember our focus is on reporting the news in as neutral a manner as possible. Threats behind closed doors will not work on us. We have a formal complaints procedure which can be used to bring concerns to our elected Governors on IC issues, and we react as swiftly as possible if we have erred.

We invite further, constructive, dialogue with Lazarus if they wish to engage with us on this issue further.

Yours,
The Board of NationStates Today
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NationStates Today is the most reliable source for unbiased, thoughtful coverage of everything from gameplay to roleplay across NationStates.

This account represents the official opinion of the Executive Board of NationStates Today. It is managed by the members of the Board, namely Chief Executive Officer (@Aga#2700), Chief Content Officer AllWildThings (@AllWildThings#9799), and Public Relations Director Quebecshire (@Cubic#1608).
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Boda
Diplomat
 
Posts: 540
Founded: Nov 14, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Boda » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:13 pm

Waiting to see how Lazarus responds...
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Kingdom of Napels
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 16
Founded: Aug 10, 2018
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Kingdom of Napels » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:18 pm

I appreciate how I started my message started with "I trust that this will not be leaked" - I think the fact that statement was posted here indicates how trustworthy NSToday is in regards to sensitive information.

NationStates Today wrote:It is important to note that NationStates Today was contacted by a current citizen of Lazarus without prompting with the details of the ‘leaks’ in question, with the relevance being to an article that was being written regarding the Better Together accords between The West Pacific and the New Pacific Order, and the treaty of Skandia between Balder and the New Pacific Order. The leaks in question related to a discussion regarding said treaties within Lazarus citizen only channels. As is our standard policy, joWhatup was asked to provide a statement on the issue before the article was published so as to ensure all sides of the argument were expressed, which led to the above response.

NSToday specifically asked me questions that would not make sense without the aforementioned leaks. These leaks are not particularly sensitive on their own (as I suspect you will soon discover) but Lazarus' sovereignty is something we take seriously, as is any region's right: the aforementioned NPO is a good example, when they violated our sovereignty throughout 2017 and 2018. We responded by declaring war. NSToday's offenses are of a more petty nature, and we will not dignify it with such a measure.

Such a procedure ensures that we do not publish leaks willy nilly, or without careful consideration. In some cases, this means we will not publish leaks at all.

How noble of you. The fact remains that you committed espionage against a sovereign Sinker and expected to simply get away with it. Indeed, when we attempted to talk with you to resolve this without a public drama, your demand was that we retract our warning and we simply wait for you to leak our private discussions. It resulted in this.

Yet, factors that we don’t consider when discussing the publishability of leaks is threats from players, no matter their position, or the criminal code of a region which claims to prevent our publishing of the information over claims of espionage. Section 5 of our Charter demands that we counteract attempts at censorship, and the Board believes that the message joWhatup sent to our Public Relations Director is a blatant attempt at just that.

NSToday then believes that Lazarus following Lazarene law constitutes "censorship"?

We say this, because after receiving the above threat from joWhatup we were contacted by Ryccia, the Lazarene Foreign Minister, who demanded, on the threat of prosecution as an organisation in Lazarus, that we not publish the leaks. We informed the Foreign Minister that we had no intention of complying with the Lazarene government’s request, in addition to reminding them that we are bound by the aforementioned Charter provisions to counteract attempts at censorship.

"We do not respect Lazarus' laws and it is an outrage Lazarus would enforce them!"

Regions cannot operate in the murky waters of silencing news organisations trying to publish stories they disagree with, without also being guilty of censorship. Indeed, in our previously outlined discussions with Ryccia on this matter it was claimed that they did “not wish to suppress the free press” while simultaneously doubling down on their demand for us not to publish the leaks in question.

This is downright misleading. First of all, "silencing news organisations trying to publish stories" is a spin on our statement - we did not accept NST committing espionage, which is an entirely different matter than suppressing news organisations. Of course, it seems like NSToday is out on causing a public spectacle rather than resolve this matter. Second of all, what we requested is that NSToday did not publish information they should not have, and we warned what would happen if you did follow through with it. Is that really so unreasonble?

In relation to joWhatup and Ryccia’s claim that NSToday’s leaking of the aforementioned information would be tantamount to espionage, we of course disagree.

I suggest you ask your PR Director on our laws. Coincidentally, they were a judge in Lazarus until this afternoon.

To the wider community, we urge you to remember our focus is on reporting the news in as neutral a manner as possible.

But you will accept leaks and publish them, even if they constitute espionage. This is not "reporting in a neutral manner", this is NSToday trying to call out Lazarus for standing up for itself and it's laws. Given our history with subversion and espionage, most notably by the New Pacific Order, but also Bowshot in recent times, it should not come as a surprise we do not look favourably upon NSToday's behaviour in regards to sensitive information.

We invite further, constructive, dialogue with Lazarus if they wish to engage with us on this issue further.

This was attempted. It resulted in this mess.
Armaros, also known as Jo.

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Custadia
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Posts: 83
Founded: May 29, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Custadia » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:28 pm

NSGP as a whole is no more entitled to see the private goings on of the Lazarene Assembly than we are to see those of other regions' legislatures.

Why are you surprised that distributing the results of espionage is going to have consequences?
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Domais
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Posts: 96
Founded: Sep 15, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Domais » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:42 pm

NationStates Today wrote:In relation to joWhatup and Ryccia’s claim that NSToday’s leaking of the aforementioned information would be tantamount to espionage, we of course disagree. Leaks in relation to known treaty concerns in major GCRs are a major gameplay story, and if we have information provided to us in such a matter we have a duty to report on it. Further, a neutral news organisation is not committing espionage if it reports on leaks provided to it, and so claims to that effect have no merit in our view. Indeed, the whole purpose of our organisation being free from regional control is to prevent us from being silenced due to any one region’s criminal code or foreign affairs policy.

Under Lazarene Law Espionage is defined as:
(1) Any person who knowingly communicates information contained in a restricted area of Lazarus, in part or in whole, to a person or entity which does not have access to that restricted area, shall be guilty of espionage.

(2) The individual or government body responsible for a restricted area may sanction the distribution of information to another person or entity. Sharing information whose release has been sanctioned shall not be considered espionage.

Because the information contained in these leaks presumably originated in a restricted area and the Speaker did not sanction the release of said information the original leaker is guilty of Espionage.

Furthermore, Conspiracy is defined as:
(1) Any person who prepares, incites another or plans to commit an offence enumerated herein, shall be guilty of conspiracy to commit that offence.

Because of the wordage of "Any person" it is conceivable that NST's staff may be guilty of Conspiracy to commit Espionage.
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New Rogernomics
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Posts: 9509
Founded: Aug 22, 2006
Left-wing Utopia

Postby New Rogernomics » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:49 pm

Boda wrote:Waiting to see how Lazarus responds...
Essentially the Lazarene government is going to request the identity of whoever leaked from the assembly for legal reasons.

You can pretty much expect that if the government ever found out their identity, whoever did it would be censured or charged in some manner.

The Lazarene government would also be negligent to not make it's best attempts to go after a leaker and make some form of protest or objection to NS Today not revealing this information.

At this point they've carried out their legal obligations to their best ability, so can choose to say no more on the matter or just choose not to interact further with NS Today.
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Big Bad Badger
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Posts: 253
Founded: Apr 25, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Big Bad Badger » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:52 pm

I find it NS offensive that NST would publish leaks from private areas of regions. If I were in charge of a region, I also would have to think twice about letting any NST official or anyone associated with NST from having citizenship access to private areas for fear of that information ending up in the NST fishwrap.
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Kyorgia
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Posts: 279
Founded: Jun 07, 2014
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Kyorgia » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:52 pm

Does NSToday actually think this makes them look good
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New Rogernomics
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9509
Founded: Aug 22, 2006
Left-wing Utopia

Postby New Rogernomics » Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:09 pm

Big Bad Badger wrote:I find it NS offensive that NST would publish leaks from private areas of regions. If I were in charge of a region, I also would have to think twice about letting any NST official or anyone associated with NST from having citizenship access to private areas for fear of that information ending up in the NST fishwrap.
Well. I am more like, "what did the leaker hope to get out of this?", as I know that supposedly NS Today is going to publish it because it is news, though if the goal of the leaker is to undermine TWP-Lazarus relations, it would be taking quite a legislative stretch to argue this is some scandalous expose of Lazarene government action.

Firstly, like a lot of regions, a discussion in itself is not a declaration of official policy, even if the PM were to state, "these are the policy decisions we are considering". Secondly, any change of policy would require a policy draft or formal proposal to be posted to be voted on, and no such thread exists in the assembly. Thirdly, even assuming two of three conditions are applied, any change to relations would require a vote, and no vote has been held, which essentially at worst makes this leak exposing the PM's private thoughts in an assembly discussion thread.
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  • Minister of Culture & Media (Humane Republic of Lazarus)
  • Foreign Minister of The Ascendancy (RIP, and purged)
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Altino
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 116
Founded: Jul 04, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Altino » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:19 pm

"I trust this will not be leaked" promptly getting leaked is the most hilarious thing I've ever witnessed. I died. The idea that Laz could now put members of NSToday who are not citizens of Lazarus on trial for Conspiracy seems a little wild to me. Why would laws of a region that I am not involved in apply to me? If I were Lazarus, though, NSToday would never hear the end of me. Leaking insider info and/or protecting your sources as a journalistic practice is a little dodgy, but probably not too heavy. Leaking their conversation with Jo, though, strikes me as doing something wrong, knowing it was wrong, and then throwing somebody else under the bus for it. That is malicious deflection. And it makes me wary to speak with NSToday at all.

How many of our governments are they inside of and watching? Are they receiving tips from citizens of our regions in bad faith, or are they sitting in our regions gathering "leaked" information themselves? Can we even DM them without them blasting us as they blasted Jo? Diplomacy relies on a certain amount of discretion. I would not want to work with an organization incapable of diplomacy.
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Boda
Diplomat
 
Posts: 540
Founded: Nov 14, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Boda » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:44 pm

I really hope this isn't #nstisoverparty. I think NS Today is filled with some good intentions and good people.
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Sancta Romana Ecclesia
Envoy
 
Posts: 294
Founded: Aug 04, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Sancta Romana Ecclesia » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:52 pm

Leaking a message with "don't leak this, unlike the other stuff you do" written on it is hilariously bad optics, agreed with Alti. If I was in the shoes of Laz MoFA, I would probably act in the same manner. If the region was happy with all NSGP seeing that information, it wouldn't be put in the citizen only channel. So why are you surprised that they aren't too keen on you publicizing it?

You should have thought this through better.
Boda wrote:I think NS Today is filled with some good intentions and good people.

I mean, yeah, agreed. It has some skilled authors. But organization is more than just the sum of its parts.
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Altino
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 116
Founded: Jul 04, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Altino » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:59 pm

Boda wrote:I really hope this isn't #nstisoverparty. I think NS Today is filled with some good intentions and good people.


For sure. But they didn't do this in particular by accident.
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Great Algerstonia
Minister
 
Posts: 2617
Founded: Mar 21, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Algerstonia » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:00 pm

First you get my name wrong :( now you leak a DM that explicity requests not be leaked? Sorry but... this made me laugh a little. :p

As a whole I think leaking is bad if the info was intended to be made private. It's private for a reason. If it's not public access, then it's none of our business imo, unless it's shady bad OOC behavior.
Last edited by Great Algerstonia on Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Daytime to Night
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Posts: 232
Founded: Dec 04, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Daytime to Night » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:11 pm

This is some really poor logic from NS Today and will significantly reduce their access and support in the long run. Seems very self-serving and short-sighted.

These are not 'threats behind closed doors', but are a leader privately and reasonably setting out their concerns to you to try and preserve a relationship with NS Today. Instead, your reaction and 'journalistic values' just placed all of your team under greater suspicion within their own home regions (as well as any they visit) and will have caused lasting damage to your relationship with a much larger group of regions.

These activities won't produce any great exposé and could reduce transparency within regions if it makes governments more reluctant share information with their citizenry - a bad thing for everyone.
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The Notorious Mad Jack
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Posts: 1749
Founded: Nov 05, 2018
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:23 pm

Really odd how people went straight to "oh he said not to leak it then NST leaked it" rather than "Lazarus official threatened NST if they didn't censor their reports". Frankly, NST are taking a stand for journalism here and Lazarus come across far worse.
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Qvait
Envoy
 
Posts: 334
Founded: Mar 08, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Qvait » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:30 pm

Why are people surprised to see a media organization publishing a leak and going after them for doing it? It's not like any of this is their fault.
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Custadia
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Posts: 83
Founded: May 29, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Custadia » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:46 pm

The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:Really odd how people went straight to "oh he said not to leak it then NST leaked it" rather than "Lazarus official threatened NST if they didn't censor their reports". Frankly, NST are taking a stand for journalism here and Lazarus come across far worse.


Lazarus doesn't tolerate espionage or those who are accessories to it. Nor does any other region.
Last edited by Custadia on Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Qvait
Envoy
 
Posts: 334
Founded: Mar 08, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Qvait » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:56 pm

Custadia wrote:
The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:Really odd how people went straight to "oh he said not to leak it then NST leaked it" rather than "Lazarus official threatened NST if they didn't censor their reports". Frankly, NST are taking a stand for journalism here and Lazarus come across far worse.


Lazarus doesn't tolerate espionage or those who are accessories to it. Nor does any other region.

Well, ofc no one likes it, but NST is an independent news organization that isn't supposed to be beholden to any region. For example, if something from TSP got out, I probably wouldn't like it, but I would still respect freedom of the press. I don't understand why this is a hard concept for some.
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Bormiar
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Posts: 1555
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bormiar » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:07 pm

The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:Really odd how people went straight to "oh he said not to leak it then NST leaked it" rather than "Lazarus official threatened NST if they didn't censor their reports". Frankly, NST are taking a stand for journalism here and Lazarus come across far worse.

“If you murder someone, you will be arrested”.

Does that sound like a threat? Lazarus simply warned them of the legal ramifications to their actions.

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Altino
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 116
Founded: Jul 04, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Altino » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:15 pm

I don't think freedom of the press is really the spooky implication here, I think it's Lazarus' own citizens maliciously leaking chats that really concerns them. Some of whom are NST staff. Or at least that's what really concerns me.

So if "someone" leaked TSP insider info, Qvait, you might be upset but overlook it. Not knowing who did it lessens the sting. But if you knew for a fact that Seraph was the one who leaked because they wanted to cause trouble between TSP and a friendly region and also knew for a fact that Nakari was the one who published the leak, wouldn't that be a lot of more of a problem? No disrespect to either Seraph or Naka, they're just the first TSPers that came to mind. If NST has no respect for Lazarus' laws or security, okay, I guess we can say that they have a right as a media outlet to take their stolen information and share it. But someone in Laz gave them the information, and the person who seems to have been intent on leaking that information was a citizen of Lazarus - holding a judicial position no less. That is troublesome. That is not just good old fashioned freedom of press.
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The Church of Satan
Minister
 
Posts: 2193
Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Church of Satan » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:16 pm

As far as I can tell, both sides are just doing their jobs at this point. Lazarus is threatening legal action and NS Today is protecting its source. Too late to do much of anything else at this point.
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Ever-Wandering Souls
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7267
Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:22 pm

Bah. Unless NSToday agreed to a secure conversation, just saying "I trust this won't be leaked" when you dump a diplomatic missive/legal threat on someone creates no expectation or agreement. It's like how saying "off the record" doesn't automatically make something off the record. That's an *agreement* between the reporting body/reporter and the source. I can't just walk up like "Hey Roavin, I trust you won't leak this, but I have spies in Osiris," and expect that to be sacred because I asked nicely.

Without even jumping into the source matter (beyond saying that this reaction to leaks of some diplomatic convo is hilarious in light of how much NSGP usually loves leaks when they're under a banner like "The Miniluv Messenger" as long as they're juicy), this whole after-action reaction just seems dead silly to me unless I'm...missing something? Like, oh no, a paper published a threat a region made against them? Come on.

Laz should go after the leak source if they want, and hell, if they want to give a middle finger to the publisher too, so be it, but this fit over publishing the threat officially communicated to the Board of Directors is just fucking dumb.
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Jar Wattinree
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Posts: 1700
Founded: Dec 14, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Jar Wattinree » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:23 pm

The Church of Satan wrote:As far as I can tell, both sides are just doing their jobs at this point. Lazarus is threatening legal action and NS Today is protecting its source. Too late to do much of anything else at this point.

Except popcorn. Moar popcorn's always good. Plenty of butter and salt to go around.
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Lazarene Ryccia
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 51
Founded: Apr 29, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Lazarene Ryccia » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:38 pm

All regions have their own laws that they enforce as sovereign entities, and Lazarus is no exception. It is nonsense to suggest otherwise. NSToday complaining about "censorship" when we were defending our region and its laws as the officials that we are is the most absurd melodrama I've heard this week. 

No person or organization is above the law, and just because you are some important interregional organization does not confer upon you and your staff some sense of privileged legal immunity ordained by the Heavens themselves. Did you seriously expect us to just ignore our own criminal code as if it an incoherent bunch of suggestions? Au contraire, it was natural that we would object and detail why we see such a threat as contravening our laws on restricted information.

We never wanted for this to go public. Indeed, we wished to resolve this privately. It was our desire to reach a peaceful conclusion to this matter. But you just went and published a monologue of false victimization. You did so after you attempted to force us to crawl to your feet and beg for forgiveness or else you would make a statement in half an hour. But we refused to yield. We cannot surrender our respect and duty to defend the rule of law in our region as government officials of Lazarus. As the Prime Minister said, how noble of you. How righteous it was to pressure us with an ultimatum to kowtow to your demands.

Stop crying censorship for sensationalist drama that casts you as the angels of truth and transparency. How can any region place their trust in your company after this debacle? After all, you reserve the inalienable right to publish any legally restricted information at your own pleasure, and if regional governments dare to challenge you on this matter, you'll cry bloody murder. Honestly, you should have expected our opposition and our warning of legal consequences.

We do not blame you for receiving that leaked information. You are innocent on that charge, and it must be stated for the record. But what we cannot tolerate is that you tell us straight to our face that you plan to disseminate information restricted by our laws and when we object, you believe we are trying to suppress the free press as you feel you are above anyone's laws. As we understand it, you are not.

Thankfully, you have not committed to your threat, and thus, in regards to the charge of espionage, you are as blameless as the purest souls in existence. I hope it stays that way so this emnity between us is resolved.

You believe you have the privilege to use a region's privacy as you so wish for your journalistic means. We have a duty to implement our laws and defend our sovereignty, especially against acts such as espionage.

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