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by Bormiar » Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:20 pm
by Llorens » Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:19 am
Bormiar wrote:-snip-
by Honeydewistania » Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:44 am
Alger wrote:if you have egoquotes in your signature, touch grass
by Tinhampton » Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:28 am
by Imperium of Josh » Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:41 am
Bormiar wrote:-snip-
by Xoriet » Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:59 am
Bormiar wrote:Stop obsessing over the same few players from the same social circle. That's your solution, Aynia. None of this is a matter of indignance because you don't care about TNP or TRR or 10KI. You truly cannot produce good content if you keep espousing the same opinions from the same type of players. So just stop finding NSGPers -- the same NSGPers -- for your podcasts and Power20 and committees (Xoriet, who I'm sure can provide intelligent thoughts, hasn't expressed any interest on being on this committee, so why is she on it?). As I told Omega, I don't care if they're from TWP or Osiris (finding players from the aforementioned "underrepresented" regions is just an easy way to find new voices), just so long as they aren't circlejerking the same opinions. Only then can your newspaper look less like a propagandist's megaphone.
by Wymondham » Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:22 am
Bormiar wrote:There's an obvious player who fits this description. He's the genial face of all that's bad (and all that's good-- the podcasts are far more educational than anything else they have) with NSToday. He actively attempts to guarantee his oligarchical power, and uses it to spread his own opinions in the aforementioned mediums. I don't know whether he's even aware it's happening, so this is nothing personal.
by Honeydewistania » Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:33 am
Alger wrote:if you have egoquotes in your signature, touch grass
by The Notorious Mad Jack » Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:37 am
Honeydewistania wrote:All of this will be solved if NSToday starts setting cryptic crosswords and puts them in the papers. Possibly.
by Bormiar » Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:44 am
Llorens wrote:Bormiar wrote:-snip-
You've taken a badly-designed survey and turned it into an excuse to try and tarnish our wider reputation, and it's pretty insulting. Let's be clear - you have an issue with Wymondham, the Up Close & Personal podcast he runs, and the Power20 biannual publication that he usually organises in some capacity (for the record, the original idea was actually mine). To twist this into the label of NSToday as "a propagandist's megaphone" is hurtful, untrue, and frankly makes it look like you don't even engage with the overwhelming majority of our regular content.
Llorens wrote:Seriously, take a look at our regular article output on our main page and tell me straight that Wymondham has his foot on the throat of our writers and editors: https://nationstates.news/. That claim is laughable.
The bias of NSToday lies not in over-representation or under-representation. As some have claimed, representation is dependent on the authors' interests. I agree. I'm willing to accept -- for the sake of argument -- that a bunch of NSLeft reporters are infatuated by the elections of a few select regions. I'm even willing to accept that there is no over-representation or under-representation at all, or that it's the reverse, and regions like TRR are over-represented.
This survey conveniently redirects attention towards representation, an argument that NSToday is bound to win through reasonable doubt. The bias of NST stems not from its writers
Llorens wrote:While I'm not involved in NSGP ideological politics because it is potentially the easiest way to erode life expectancy, I think some of your points about bias in certain pieces of content could be valid. However, your willing ignorance of this survey aiming to rectify these very issues is bewildering. I admit that I would have designed this survey very differently, but to somehow ignore the fact that the Board is making an effort is detached from reality.
Llorens wrote:Wymondham is not the new Rupert Murdoch, and your obsession with it would be entertaining if it wasn't so disturbing and wrong. We produce damn good content, and your fixation on the tiniest slice of it seems reminiscent of the bias you label our entire operation with.
Llorens wrote:I'll now respond to the specific claim that NSLeft writers are 'infatuated' with our sphere of NationStates, since it's myself and Chief Content Officer Blyatman who are the only prominent writers with connection to it. I can only imagine this is some personal attack, so I may as well defend myself and my fellow writer.
I'm willing to accept -- for the sake of argument -- that a bunch of NSLeft reporters are infatuated by the elections of a few select regions.
Llorens wrote:I have published over 50 articles, not including more than a dozen weekend editions, and only 7 have been on my own region. Hell, I've even reported on both 10000 Islands and The North Pacific, 2 of those 3 regions you say we "don't care about." As for Blyatman, they have reported twice on their own region (TCB), once on the Democratic Socialist Assembly during a literal crisis, and the remainder of their articles to date have been a variety of opinion pieces. You tell me if that's infatuation.
To boot, the NSLeft is the one of the largest and most durable interregional alliances in all of NationStates, having lasted over four years (I'm unaware of any larger interregional alliances currently, though I may be wrong). In fact, it should be surprising we don't report on it even more given NSToday was founded by two citizens of The Communist Bloc - our most recent article on anything to do with it was in mid-April.
Honeydewistania wrote:Bormiar, you’re on the committee that designed the survey, so you could had voiced your opinions on it, unless you already have
Tinhampton wrote:The UNnameable Organisation's Human Rights Council gets along well with having one Special Rapporteur covering a certain human-rights niche presenting reports on that niche - Philip Alston's recent A/HRC/44/40 (MS Word .docx format only, sorry) on the eradication of poverty being a prime example. Why does NST need ten people to interpret the results of a survey and provide recommendations on improving NST diversity based on those results?
Imperium of Josh wrote:Now, as I see it, our main problem is likely to be a lack of writing staff with interests and expertise regarding certain areas, but that's for you guys to determine. Sure, a simple survey isn't going to do that alone, but that's why we've put a load of you in a room together and told you to hammer out a solution. Takes time, thought, and a good deal of smart people to come up with solutions to these issues.
Imperium of Josh wrote:When you ask what we want your response to be when we ask what you want us to do, we aren't expecting magical solutions from you alone, just something, anything constructive. I personally don't particularly understand why this now apparently unhinged crusade of yours has advanced so far if you're not actually interested in providing any solutions.
Imperium of Josh wrote:The committee you sit on includes multiple people you'd be extremely hard pressed to brand as GPers, but I suppose the very fact that they know people in our circles is an issue for you, given "stop obsessing over the same few players from the same social circle." In regards to "the same opinions from the same type of players," by all means, take to the waters of the world and fish us up some new writers with new perspectives for NST. If they're good at what they do, I'm sure HR would happily take them. Perhaps suggest to some well spoken advocates of NS democracy that an NST podcast would be a good way to convey their ideas, idk? (For those other than Borm reading who might fit said categories, I'd like to suggest exactly those things.)
Xoriet wrote:You've really got it wrong when it comes to who has the most representation. TWP certainly doesn't. The only notable article about TWP within quite a while would have been the controversial one about their treaty with NPO, and that one never came out. TWP also sees very little P20 representation when it comes to primary membership having a showing. Secondary citizenship doesn't count as favoring TWP in my books. Osiris having a lot of representation is more accurate.
Xoriet wrote:As for the Committee, I didn't really see you make any substantial edits to the format of the survey when you clearly have opinions on how it should have been constructed, and you certainly had opportunity. Actually, you made very few posts where I could see it and none of them involved suggestions for improvement. Some people can criticize the format, but you, who did not contribute much when you raised the complaints leading to the creation of the Committee in the first place, are not one of them.
Wymondham wrote:I fail to see how anything in those minutes guarantee's my "oligarchical power".
Wymondham wrote:Somy and JST's charter amendments (rolling these together as they had the same effect) - these would have prevented members of the executive board serving on the governors as either elected (internal and external) or appointed members. I have been elected to every governors term since the body was formed, the first time I was elected I was not a board member, I am the only person to have done that]If all the board members were appointed governors, I would agree with the idea, but they aren't. I received the second most votes out of all the internally elected governors, so the staff clearly still want me as a governor, board member or not. If, as you say, I had oligarchical power, why did Aav and Josh both also vote against, neither of them are board members and neither of them would be affected. or are you seriously trying to say that I have influence over the Kaiser of Hartfelden and Josh, who has never let anyone ever decide his view for him, as those of us who know him know well enough. .
Wymondham wrote:If, as you say, I had oligarchical power, why did Aav and Josh both also vote against, neither of them are board members and neither of them would be affected. or are you seriously trying to say that I have influence over the Kaiser of Hartfelden and Josh, who has never let anyone ever decide his view for him, as those of us who know him know well enough. .
Wymondham wrote:Thank you, by the way for assuming that I am some masterful political genius that is somehow manipulating: a chairperson who is extremely intelligent RL and has an offer to attend an extremely selective place of higher education, a board of governors including the former delegate of The South Pacific, the former TSP FA minister among the monarch of Caer sidi and the organiser of UCR Con, who is also HR Director, among others. While I appreciate your vote of confidence in my political skills, that confidence is sadly misplaced, I'm a 16 year old kid, not Niccolo Machiavelli or Rupert Murdoch.
Wymondham wrote:I don't know whether he's even aware it's happening
Wymondham wrote:The podcast Meritocracy v Democracy you mentioned was over a year ago
Wymondham wrote:if you will look at our most recent episodes we have had Prydania, delegate of TNP, Marrabuk, who at the time of recording was TEP delegate, Roavin, an NS democracy advocate if there ever was one and Seraph/Ernior - former delegate of TSP. We also invited Sarah onto the podcast just under 2 weeks ago when we were arranging the next episode, alas she doesn't podcast.
Wymondham wrote:With regards to Up Close and Personal. there have been 3 episodes, the last of which was around march time if memory serves, are you seriously trying to use a sporadic podcast that interviews people in a much more intense and time critical (in that we usually get a weeks lead time on a Newsroom podcast for organisation and 4 days for editing, UC&P is organised the day of about 6 hours beforehand and out the next day) 1 on 1 when my RL and NS allows, to show some sort of bias, come off it.
Wymondham wrote:As for your accusations that panellists are afraid to criticise the methodology, why then do we hold a session after the list is released where we always ask "what could we do better to make the process easier and to better represent GP's make up" and why then do the panellists always make, what I will politely call robust, suggestions about what we could do better, and why did the 2 people who pushed for the biggest reforms to the process in P20 no2 not only get invite back, but got their suggestions fully implemented. If the panellists are afraid to criticise it, why in the last P20 did one panellist openly and privately suggest not doing P20 this time around as in their view nothing had happened in GP in the last 6 months. If any panellist feels that way then they are always welcome to contact me to discuss their concerns, although the evidence suggests that the reality is quite contrary to those concerns.
Imperium of Josh wrote:I mean, maybe you just wanna attack the work of a bunch of people who do their best to have fun in a novel way on an obscure browser game, who knows. If that's the case though, why agree to be on the committee? Did I make a mistake in approving a list with you on it? I defended your placement on that list for god's sake.
by Wymondham » Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:12 pm
Bormiar wrote:I do believe, however, that you're influencing them, in the same way that they influence you. Simply being on the board and in the governor chat means you have the opportunity to share your opinions.
It would be interesting if you were a machiavellian, but I don't see it.
Bormiar wrote:That's disingenuous. Prydania and Marrabuk only came on because you needed some GCR delegates. You didn't invite them simply because you thought they would have an interesting perspective. You wouldn't have thought about either if they weren't GCR delegates. Same goes for Sarah. Roavin is an NSGPer if there ever was one.
Bormiar wrote:Wymondham wrote:With regards to Up Close and Personal. there have been 3 episodes, the last of which was around march time if memory serves, are you seriously trying to use a sporadic podcast that interviews people in a much more intense and time critical (in that we usually get a weeks lead time on a Newsroom podcast for organisation and 4 days for editing, UC&P is organised the day of about 6 hours beforehand and out the next day) 1 on 1 when my RL and NS allows, to show some sort of bias, come off it.
You, Wymondham, have interviewed Riakou (who had his 30 seconds of NSGP fame), Fedele, Tubbius, Lynxi, Kuramia, Halo, and Imki. I have no problem with any of those interviewees. I do have a problem with claiming that there's no NSGP focus there. I also have a problem with you claiming that you could only find NSGPers (who generally have very similar perspectives on certain topics; e.g. Balder, often meritocracy, the importance of the Thanos snap).
by Bormiar » Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:41 pm
Wymondham wrote:Bormiar wrote:I do believe, however, that you're influencing them, in the same way that they influence you. Simply being on the board and in the governor chat means you have the opportunity to share your opinions.
It would be interesting if you were a machiavellian, but I don't see it.
I was on LoA due to RL for both of those votes. I voted by proxy with Lewis as my designated proxy as the minutes show.
Wymondham wrote:Bormiar wrote:That's disingenuous. Prydania and Marrabuk only came on because you needed some GCR delegates. You didn't invite them simply because you thought they would have an interesting perspective. You wouldn't have thought about either if they weren't GCR delegates. Same goes for Sarah. Roavin is an NSGPer if there ever was one.
How do you know why we got Marrabuk and Prydania on? The reason was that I wanted to get a TNP person on the podcast, as we hadn't had one on the podcast and that didn't seem right, and it only made sense that we went straight to the top if possible. TEP had just signed a treaty with XKI, iirc, and was about to have a delegate election, thus it seemed only right to get someone from there on as well. Not because we wanted GCR delegates, because we wanted a person from TNP and a person from TEP and it seemed logical to get the most important people we could from them.
Stop obsessing over the same few players from the same social circle. That's your solution, Aynia. None of this is a matter of indignance because you don't care about TNP or TRR or 10KI. You truly cannot produce good content if you keep espousing the same opinions from the same type of players. So just stop finding NSGPers -- the same NSGPers -- for your podcasts and Power20 and committees (Xoriet, who I'm sure can provide intelligent thoughts, hasn't expressed any interest on being on this committee, so why is she on it?). As I told Omega, I don't care if they're from TWP or Osiris (finding players from the aforementioned "underrepresented" regions is just an easy way to find new voices), just so long as they aren't circlejerking the same opinions. Only then can your newspaper look less like a propagandist's megaphone.
Wymondham wrote:Bormiar wrote:
You, Wymondham, have interviewed Riakou (who had his 30 seconds of NSGP fame), Fedele, Tubbius, Lynxi, Kuramia, Halo, and Imki. I have no problem with any of those interviewees. I do have a problem with claiming that there's no NSGP focus there. I also have a problem with you claiming that you could only find NSGPers (who generally have very similar perspectives on certain topics; e.g. Balder, often meritocracy, the importance of the Thanos snap).
So, UC&P as written interview series was last done in May of last year so over a year ago. I never claimed UC&P as a paper interview series didn't have a GP focus, if you look at the tags you will see the text interviews are for our "Gameplay" section. As for UC&P the podcast - which we started because we felt the best sort of interview for Fedele, just as TEP was heading into the attempted coup, was a voice one, and as GP editor and someone who already podcasted it seemed only logical for me to do it. UC&P as a text interview format has been dead for over a year and probably ain't coming back as I suck at text interviews, UC&P as a podcast interview format will probably make a return when my RL is in a better place and I ain't heading into my A-level year. I never, ever claimed UC&P didn't have a GP focus, merely that you were trying to use a podcast which has been dead for 6+ months and a written interview series which has been dead for over a year.
Frattastan IV wrote:Honeydewistania wrote:What the hell is NSGP leaning?
A focus on "NSGP elite", a number of prominent gameplayers whose good social connections that extend beyond their region or alignment and unfold for the most part in the Gameplay forum or Discord server. Onder calls them "the elites of the gameplay forum" or the center of "the social structure of the gameplay community at large", and presumably Unibot thinks they are the apex of today's "Facebook culture".
by Aumeltopia » Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:08 pm
Wymondham wrote:With regards to Up Close and Personal. there have been 3 episodes, the last of which was around march time if memory serves, are you seriously trying to use a sporadic podcast that interviews people in a much more intense and time critical (in that we usually get a weeks lead time on a Newsroom podcast for organisation and 4 days for editing, UC&P is organised the day of about 6 hours beforehand and out the next day) 1 on 1 when my RL and NS allows, to show some sort of bias, come off it.
Wymondham wrote:I fail to see how anything in those minutes guarantee's my "oligarchical power". Thank you, by the way for assuming that I am some masterful political genius that is somehow manipulating: a chairperson who is extremely intelligent RL and has an offer to attend an extremely selective place of higher education, a board of governors including the former delegate of The South Pacific, the former TSP FA minister among the monarch of Caer sidi and the organiser of UCR Con, who is also HR Director, among others. While I appreciate your vote of confidence in my political skills, that confidence is sadly misplaced, I'm a 16 year old kid, not Niccolo Machiavelli or Rupert Murdoch.
Auphelia wrote:Raccoons are bandits! First they steal your food . . . and then your heart/identity!
by Wymondham » Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:55 pm
Aumeltopia wrote:Can we have the next UC&P, whenever you can get back to it, interview Cretox State, or Imperium Anglorum, or Ransium, or Whatermelons, or Candlewhisper, or Jutsa, or any of the RP mentors?
I know, really, who you get on the podcast is basically determined by who you know -- as it would be with anyone. You inhabit the epicenter of the GP/social circle, and as a result, the easiest people to reach out to are well-known GPers. It doesn't really have to be a conscious thing. And that's alright if it's just you working for yourself. But when you hold an important position and make important content contributions to an organization which attempts not to lean in any particular direction, a prolonged bias like that will change the culture of the organization, no matter how much you're not trying to actively influence it that way. I know you don't intend to make NST focus more and more on GP, or when it does focus on GP, to be indelibly associated with your viewpoints. But simply by virtue of not making a great effort to reach outside of your comfort zone, you are such a media-producing and -coordinating force that things shift towards your comfort zone.
Aumeltopia wrote:That's quite the framing you've done there. You know very well your own self-worth and your own skills at playing GP politics. "I'm just a 16 year old kid" is a poor defense.
- Sincerely, a 17 year old kid (or maybe "former delegate of the South Pacific"?)
by Bormiar » Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:06 pm
Aumeltopia wrote:Bormiar, you're a GPer zeroing in on our GP/social content and criticizing it for being biased towards Wym's views/interests. Well, yes, because Wym basically drives NST's production of GP/social content. (To be clear, I'm referring to media that focuses on "GP personalities", as opposed to things like elections in XKI or NWI or wherever else -- which we have a glut of, as well, but you'd be sorely mistaken to call them biased). You're ignoring 90% of NST's content to complain about the 10% that focuses on the GP/social world -- and then using that to claim that the entire news organization is woefully subverted under the heel of the GP/social focus. Of all of NST's content, gameplayers choose to care only about the Power20/UC&P/etc. That's fine, but then criticize those programs specifically rather than labelling all of NST as broken.
Aumeltopia wrote:While you claim that what you really want is more focus on non-GP/social topics, in reality the only thing you care about are the GP/social topics.
Aumeltopia wrote:Bormiar wrote:It's my fault for not thinking about it before.
So that's why you decided to write a massive diatribe here, specifically in order to create a public spectacle? You've evidently now thought about it quite a bit, but you still decided to post here instead of voicing your opinions on it in the committee now. I respect your right to put your concerns out publicly, and I actually think you make some valuable points mixed in with all the scaremongering. But seriously, are we supposed to take your diatribe as good faith criticism when you had every opportunity to make real changes to the committee but didn't and haven't?
Aumeltopia wrote:That's quite the framing you've done there. You know very well your own self-worth and your own skills at playing GP politics. "I'm just a 16 year old kid" is a poor defense.
by Honeydewistania » Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:29 pm
Can we have the next UC&P, whenever you can get back to it, interview Cretox State, or Imperium Anglorum, or Ransium, or Whatermelons, or Candlewhisper, or Jutsa, or any of the RP mentors?
Alger wrote:if you have egoquotes in your signature, touch grass
by Elegarth » Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:20 pm
by Unibot III » Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:27 pm
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by NationStates Today » Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:44 am
by The Church of Satan » Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:49 pm
by Comfed » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:48 pm
The Church of Satan wrote:Your articles are dreadfully outdated. Also it is neither September 20th not is it the weekend. At least have the decency to update your articles when you release them late. TRRs delebread completed their transition seventy-three days ago. Get it together, NST. This is just sad.
by The Church of Satan » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:55 pm
Comfed wrote:It’s a collection of all articles published since the last edition.
by Llorens » Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:25 pm
The Church of Satan wrote:Your articles are dreadfully outdated. Also it is neither September 20th not is it the weekend. At least have the decency to update your articles when you release them late. TRRs delebread completed their transition seventy-three days ago. Get it together, NST. This is just sad.
by Helseth » Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:51 pm
The Church of Satan wrote:Your articles are dreadfully outdated. Also it is neither September 20th not is it the weekend. At least have the decency to update your articles when you release them late. TRRs delebread completed their transition seventy-three days ago. Get it together, NST. This is just sad.
by ShrewLlamaLand » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:07 pm
Helseth wrote:The Church of Satan wrote:Your articles are dreadfully outdated. Also it is neither September 20th not is it the weekend. At least have the decency to update your articles when you release them late. TRRs delebread completed their transition seventy-three days ago. Get it together, NST. This is just sad.
Such a non issue to whine about. Wow.
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