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Imperial Statement from the New Pacific Order

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Pierconium
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Founded: Antiquity
Father Knows Best State

Postby Pierconium » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:14 pm

Unibot III wrote:
Pierconium wrote:Francos Spain didn't seize anything. The Pacific was a chaotic mashup ran by a few oligarchs that just passed the Delegacy around between themselves. There was no government, no bureaucracy, and outside of a very small handful of nations that created it as a result of being displaced, no community.


I suspected you might say that, and it isn't true: part lie, part misleading contextualization.

But let's say it is true. If it is acceptable to take advantage of power vacuums, chaotic mashups - what makes Feux's kratocracy so bad in Lazarus? Was he not (thrice) trying to bring order (rather self-servingly) to a declining state and order of things? It seems to me that what you're taking dispute with is an individual's ambition tantamount fundamentally with the founding ethos of the Order itself.

The New Pacific Order is a junta whose eponymous mission is to imperialise the Pacifics. You, however, would have us believe it's a knitting club for roleplayers and retirees. It began as a coup. Expansionism is its reason for existence, its past, its present, and its future indefinitely. Everything else, this claptrap about regional rights, is simply for show.

Was Feux invited into that power vacuum by the nations of Lazarus? If so, then there would be no problem with it. f not, then he should not have done it. Simple enough, even for you.

Just because you were never advanced during your brief sojourns in the Pacific does not mean everyone has to listen to your bitter tripe as you ignore my comments and keep stating the same thing over and over. Things that happened 16 years ago in NS are very different than things that happened a year ago. The context is different, the game mechanics are different, the player mentalities are different. NS now is the same ones and zeroes but it is also so much more (and in some ways less) than what it was over a decade of realtime ago. You know this, you are just choosing to be obtuse. Not unexpected. But still droll.
Tyrant (Ret.)

Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you; tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you…

NPO - EMPIRE - TRIUMVIRATE - NPD

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Pierconium
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Founded: Antiquity
Father Knows Best State

Postby Pierconium » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:17 pm

Pierconium wrote:I guess I should say that what I valued as 'fun' in Gameplay 13-16 years ago is markedly different than what I view as fun today. While I have spent 16 years building a certain persona, and will always maintain certain political views as regards the sovereignty of the GCRs, the rights of the sitting Delegate, etc. my views on what is acceptable behavior while in a position of authority over a community has changed significantly over the last decade plus.

Quoting this as it seems to have been missed.
Tyrant (Ret.)

Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you; tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you…

NPO - EMPIRE - TRIUMVIRATE - NPD

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Unibot III
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Posts: 7113
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:19 pm

Pierconium wrote:
Unibot III wrote:
I suspected you might say that, and it isn't true: part lie, part misleading contextualization.

But let's say it is true. If it is acceptable to take advantage of power vacuums, chaotic mashups - what makes Feux's kratocracy so bad in Lazarus? Was he not (thrice) trying to bring order (rather self-servingly) to a declining state and order of things? It seems to me that what you're taking dispute with is an individual's ambition tantamount fundamentally with the founding ethos of the Order itself.

The New Pacific Order is a junta whose eponymous mission is to imperialise the Pacifics. You, however, would have us believe it's a knitting club for roleplayers and retirees. It began as a coup. Expansionism is its reason for existence, its past, its present, and its future indefinitely. Everything else, this claptrap about regional rights, is simply for show.

Was Feux invited into that power vacuum by the nations of Lazarus? If so, then there would be no problem with it. f not, then he should not have done it. Simple enough, even for you.

Just because you were never advanced during your brief sojourns in the Pacific does not mean everyone has to listen to your bitter tripe as you ignore my comments and keep stating the same thing over and over. Things that happened 16 years ago in NS are very different than things that happened a year ago. The context is different, the game mechanics are different, the player mentalities are different. NS now is the same ones and zeroes but it is also so much more (and in some ways less) than what it was over a decade of realtime ago. You know this, you are just choosing to be obtuse. Not unexpected. But still droll.


I am not bitter, nor does my criticism relate exclusively to the events of the Cold War. When I began as a gameplayer, I was very skeptical/critical of the NPO. But a great many of my friends, some who I introduced to gameplay, joined the NPO and I grew to wonder whether if it had indeed changed and whether it could be a force for good in a geopolitical struggle against imperialism. I learnt the hard way that my friends weren't always my friends, they weren't opponents of imperialism but perpetrators of it, and my experience of the New Lazarene Order demonstrated that indeed, the New Pacific Order cannot be trusted to respect other Game-Created Regions.

Trite as it is, I believe in not letting someone fool you twice.

Feux was not invited to Lazarus, nor was Francos Spain to the Pacific, nor were you, nor was any NPOer who has ever couped a GCR. Whether it was sixteen years ago, thirteen, ten, three, or five minutes ago. Your forced, temporal compartmentalization of the New Pacific Order and its intentions is at best, intellectually dishonest.
Last edited by Unibot III on Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
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Pierconium
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Founded: Antiquity
Father Knows Best State

Postby Pierconium » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:34 pm

Unibot III wrote:
Pierconium wrote:Was Feux invited into that power vacuum by the nations of Lazarus? If so, then there would be no problem with it. f not, then he should not have done it. Simple enough, even for you.

Just because you were never advanced during your brief sojourns in the Pacific does not mean everyone has to listen to your bitter tripe as you ignore my comments and keep stating the same thing over and over. Things that happened 16 years ago in NS are very different than things that happened a year ago. The context is different, the game mechanics are different, the player mentalities are different. NS now is the same ones and zeroes but it is also so much more (and in some ways less) than what it was over a decade of realtime ago. You know this, you are just choosing to be obtuse. Not unexpected. But still droll.


I am not bitter, nor does my criticism relate exclusively to the events of the Cold War. When I began as a gameplayer, I was very skeptical/critical of the NPO. But a great many of my friends, some who I introduced to gameplay, joined the NPO and I grew to wonder whether if it had indeed changed and whether it could be a force for good in a geopolitical struggle against imperialism. I learnt the hard way that my friends weren't always my friends, they weren't opponents of imperialism but perpetrators of it, and my experience of the New Lazarene Order demonstrated that indeed, the New Pacific Order cannot be trusted to respect other Game-Created Regions.

Trite as it is, I believe in not letting someone fool you twice.

Feux was not invited to Lazarus, nor was Francos Spain to the Pacific, nor were you, nor was any NPOer who has ever couped a GCR. Whether it was sixteen years ago, thirteen, ten, three, or five minutes ago. Your forced, temporal compartmentalization of the New Pacific Order and its intentions is at best, intellectually dishonest.

So, just so I am clear, you, the author of several walls of text pertaining to the different ‘ages’ of NationStates, are stating that NS is temporally static and that the game, nations, players, regions, motivations, whatever cannot or do not change over time? Or are you suggesting I am a Time Lord? Either way, whatever. Both are completely laughable positions.
Tyrant (Ret.)

Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you; tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you…

NPO - EMPIRE - TRIUMVIRATE - NPD

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Pierconium
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Founded: Antiquity
Father Knows Best State

Postby Pierconium » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:49 pm

For the record, it was generally agreed on Discord that I am actually a Time Lord, so I concede the point.
Tyrant (Ret.)

Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you; tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you…

NPO - EMPIRE - TRIUMVIRATE - NPD

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Unibot III
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Posts: 7113
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:59 pm

Pierconium wrote:For the record, it was generally agreed on Discord that I am actually a Time Lord, so I concede the point.


I could believe you've got one, but two hearts is stretching believability here. :P

The Doctor in the TARDIS wrote:Well, I know which one I am, so that must make you...

Image

- Cormac



I vote Lord President of Space Glasgow.
Last edited by Unibot III on Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25-05-2008 | Former Delegate of TRR

Factbook // Collected works // Gameplay Alignment Test //
9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Headlines from Unibot // WASC HQ: A Guide

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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The Doctor in the TARDIS
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Posts: 1
Founded: Aug 19, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Doctor in the TARDIS » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:00 pm

Pierconium wrote:For the record, it was generally agreed on Discord that I am actually a Time Lord, so I concede the point.

Well, I know which one I am, so that must make you...

Image

- Cormac

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Lord Dominator
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Lord Dominator » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:41 pm

I wasn't aware any of us had hearts

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Blight-Bane
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Posts: 87
Founded: Sep 13, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Blight-Bane » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:57 pm

Pierconium wrote:That said, I do think the Pacific choosing to align itself with defenderism was a mistake because I think the entire concept of 'defender' morality is a misplaced and hypocritical mentality that unnecessarily confuses IC and OOC to a level that is unneeded in a political simulation environment. So, the Pacific choosing to alienate groups like The Black Hawks was a mistake in my opinion, but not for the exact reasons you surmise.

The first statement has a ring of truth to it, although I'm not sure the 'moralist' paradigm is anywhere near as influential as it used to be (at least in an obvious way). But one could say the anti-fash ops that the NPO carries out blur the IC and OOC lines as well.

The Doctor in the TARDIS wrote:Well, I know which one I am, so that must make you...

I'm sure Pierconium might appreciate being called the 'master', but that's beside the point. Missy was by far the best incarnation of that character. Just sayin.

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Roavin
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Founded: Apr 07, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Roavin » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:05 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:
Pierconium wrote:Francos Spain didn't seize anything. The Pacific was a chaotic mashup ran by a few oligarchs that just passed the Delegacy around between themselves. There was no government, no bureaucracy, and outside of a very small handful of nations that created it as a result of being displaced, no community.

Sounds about the same as every other region back then, by my knowledge of history :lol:


I'm not sure about other regions, but TSP had an established Charter and government starting in June 2003, predating the August Revolution (in August 2003, unsurprisingly) that spawned the New Pacific Order.
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Lord Dominator
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Right-wing Utopia

Postby Lord Dominator » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:20 pm

Roavin wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:Sounds about the same as every other region back then, by my knowledge of history :lol:


I'm not sure about other regions, but TSP had an established Charter and government starting in June 2003, predating the August Revolution (in August 2003, unsurprisingly) that spawned the New Pacific Order.

How stable was that?
Not to be oppositional or anything, that would just genuinely surprise me.

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Roavin
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Founded: Apr 07, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Roavin » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:26 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:
Roavin wrote:
I'm not sure about other regions, but TSP had an established Charter and government starting in June 2003, predating the August Revolution (in August 2003, unsurprisingly) that spawned the New Pacific Order.

How stable was that?
Not to be oppositional or anything, that would just genuinely surprise me.


Well, the beginnings were turbulent (forum going down leading to a temporary loss of the charter, coup due to game glitch, some weird Atlantic Alliance people doing shady things, etc.), but the current TSP government is still a direct continuation of the government established then.
Helpful Resources: One Stop Rules Shop | API documentation | NS Coders Discord
About me: Longest serving Prime Minister in TSP | Former First Warden of TGW | aka Curious Observations

Feel free to TG me, but not about moderation matters.

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Cormactopia Prime
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Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:39 pm

Pergamon wrote:The Order hereby recognizes a state of war between itself and The Black Hawks and is evaluating its diplomatic stance towards other regions at this time. Henceforth, the New Pacific Order will actively conduct military operations against TBH and its interests.

I've been told that this declaration is just a statement of a rogue member of the NPO government. Is that correct or has this been approved by the Delegate et al? Just curious. I see no reason to continue engaging with the material of the statement if it is not an actual NPO declaration of war.

In other words, Ivan and Xoriet, stop being ridiculous.

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Imperium of Josh
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Founded: Nov 25, 2015
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Imperium of Josh » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:43 pm

Cormactopia Prime wrote:
Pergamon wrote:The Order hereby recognizes a state of war between itself and The Black Hawks and is evaluating its diplomatic stance towards other regions at this time. Henceforth, the New Pacific Order will actively conduct military operations against TBH and its interests.

I've been told that this declaration is just a statement of a rogue member of the NPO government. Is that correct or has this been approved by the Delegate et al? Just curious. I see no reason to continue engaging with the material of the statement if it is not an actual NPO declaration of war.

In other words, Ivan and Xoriet, stop being ridiculous.

Clearly Perg was rogue, that's why he volunteered to be banned... out of shame for rebelling. It's all falling into place now :P

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Neo Domais
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Founded: Oct 09, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Neo Domais » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:59 pm

Imperium of Josh wrote:
Cormactopia Prime wrote:I've been told that this declaration is just a statement of a rogue member of the NPO government. Is that correct or has this been approved by the Delegate et al? Just curious. I see no reason to continue engaging with the material of the statement if it is not an actual NPO declaration of war.

In other words, Ivan and Xoriet, stop being ridiculous.

Clearly Perg was rogue, that's why he volunteered to be banned... out of shame for rebelling. It's all falling into place now :P
No he was the Emperor don't you remember, how can the Emperor go rogue?
Founder Of Extalia
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NPO delenda est.

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Saint Block
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Founded: Dec 25, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Saint Block » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:34 pm

Perg definitely called the shots. I’d be willing to bet that he still is. :P

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Milozoldyck
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Founded: Nov 03, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Milozoldyck » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:54 pm

Saint Block wrote:Perg definitely called the shots. I’d be willing to bet that he still is. :P

Okay: What do you wager?

I'll happily take your money. 8)
Fishmonger4Lyfe | AKA Milograd, Vanquisher of Vegans | NPO Delenda Est
Region: Azhukali | I co-founded, and then completely abandoned II Wiki | Discord: #NSSanctuary
Former NPO Senator of Getting The Region in Trouble
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Author of a bunch of SC resolutions (not an accomplishment), one GA resolution (would be an accomplishment, except Douria did all the work), and an issue about suicide-by-train (I'm very proud of this)
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Neo Domais
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Founded: Oct 09, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Neo Domais » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:56 pm

Also if Pergamon is banned why is he still in the region?
Founder Of Extalia
Delegate emeritus of Warzone Australia

NPO delenda est.

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Lord Dominator
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Lord Dominator » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:57 pm

Neo Domais wrote:Also if Pergamon is banned why is he still in the region?

He's being allowed to CTE there, provided he doesn't log in again to violate that.

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Neo Domais
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Founded: Oct 09, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Neo Domais » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:02 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:
Neo Domais wrote:Also if Pergamon is banned why is he still in the region?

He's being allowed to CTE there, provided he doesn't log in again to violate that.
I think the NS GP community is okay with that.
Founder Of Extalia
Delegate emeritus of Warzone Australia

NPO delenda est.

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Lord Dominator
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Lord Dominator » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:03 pm

Neo Domais wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:He's being allowed to CTE there, provided he doesn't log in again to violate that.
I think the NS GP community is okay with that.

That's one word you can use I suppose

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The Seeker of Power
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Posts: 194
Founded: Oct 29, 2004
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Seeker of Power » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:43 pm

Saint Block wrote:Perg definitely called the shots. I’d be willing to bet that he still is. :P
oOh I'll take you for it. If you are wrong - as you are - you never come back. You leave the NS realm forever. You are not welcome here anyway. Otherwise, I'll do it. Bring your evidence, kid. Make sure it is unquestionable.
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Legatus of the New Pacific Order
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Saint Block
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Founded: Dec 25, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Saint Block » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:39 pm

The Seeker of Power wrote:
Saint Block wrote:Perg definitely called the shots. I’d be willing to bet that he still is. :P
oOh I'll take you for it. If you are wrong - as you are - you never come back. You leave the NS realm forever. You are not welcome here anyway. Otherwise, I'll do it. Bring your evidence, kid. Make sure it is unquestionable.



Lol, who are you? Certainly not the representative of the entire game. XD

What do I get if I win?

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The Peoples of Xaer
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Posts: 164
Founded: May 12, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby The Peoples of Xaer » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:54 pm

Saint Block wrote:What do I get if I win?

Having your name on the "Latest post" for as many current threads as possible in the forum isn't "winning."

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Saint Block
Envoy
 
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Founded: Dec 25, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Saint Block » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:28 pm

You mad? :P

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