NATION

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Imperial Statement from the New Pacific Order

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
Not a roleplaying forum.

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Milozoldyck
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Posts: 107
Founded: Nov 03, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Milozoldyck » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:45 pm

Altinsane wrote:snip

What I told you is the truth. That’s all I can say.
Fishmonger4Lyfe | AKA Milograd, Vanquisher of Vegans | NPO Delenda Est
Region: Azhukali | I co-founded, and then completely abandoned II Wiki | Discord: #NSSanctuary
Former NPO Senator of Getting The Region in Trouble
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Author of a bunch of SC resolutions (not an accomplishment), one GA resolution (would be an accomplishment, except Douria did all the work), and an issue about suicide-by-train (I'm very proud of this)
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Lord Dominator
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Lord Dominator » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:48 pm

I am actually inclined to believe that it simply was forgotten and/or something LoD wasn't really involved in.

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King Bradley
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Posts: 138
Founded: Sep 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby King Bradley » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:00 am

LoD really wasn’t all that involved. Milo’s account is pretty accurate.
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Milozoldyck
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Founded: Nov 03, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Milozoldyck » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:05 am

Lord Dominator wrote:I am actually inclined to believe that it simply was forgotten and/or something LoD wasn't really involved in.

Quite. I should note the list also includes two players named "Ironmonger 1" and "Ironmonger 2." :p
Last edited by Milozoldyck on Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:12 am, edited 3 times in total.
Fishmonger4Lyfe | AKA Milograd, Vanquisher of Vegans | NPO Delenda Est
Region: Azhukali | I co-founded, and then completely abandoned II Wiki | Discord: #NSSanctuary
Former NPO Senator of Getting The Region in Trouble
Eternal Delegate-Hero of The South Pacific and Somewhat-Forgiven Chairman-Traitorlord in Lazarus
Former II Roleplaying Mentor
Author of a bunch of SC resolutions (not an accomplishment), one GA resolution (would be an accomplishment, except Douria did all the work), and an issue about suicide-by-train (I'm very proud of this)
LAZARUSDEATH - My first RP since 2012

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New Rogernomics
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Posts: 9510
Founded: Aug 22, 2006
Left-wing Utopia

Postby New Rogernomics » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:47 am

Well, before I start, I'll say these are my personal thoughts, and no one should assume I'd actually advise Lazarus by them. As I take my objectivity in any advisory role very seriously and put my personal thoughts aside.

Generally my reaction, well before I looked into the depth of the allegations was dissapointment in the NPO government and the people I talked to there. This was both as delegate, and at several points where I may have privately expressed to them my disagreements with how Lazarus may have been going.

What I expected was for the New Pacific Order's citizens and/or government to tell people in our government in private (if they could not to so publicly), their concerns. There were many legal avenues and approaches that could have avoided this debacle.

If their concern was that LWU were infiltrating our government, or that Funk was turning it into a LWU colony, they should have brought that to our attention. Instead we got members of the NPO working behind our backs, underming the authority and objectivity of the very institutions that could have countered the LWU and/or Funk legally, the courts, the Celestial Being and the Assembly.

All Task Force Lazarus did was to push the factional divisions even worse, and on the off chance that they might 'fix' us. It realistically put everyone through un-necessary grief. Literally Lazarus became so toxic politically that I retired, and all sorts of active people committed to Lazarus left.

As far as Task Force Lazarus, itself. They did really well at infiltration but were sloppy in how they communicated with their operatives. I'd have set up a discord with code name identities and a code list, to avoid leaks of logs hurting the NPO later.

But ultimately, we now have to all deal with this debacle in our own way. I don't have anger towards the NPO government or the people of The Pacfic. Instead a lot of dissapointment, as I expected better.

I was not a fan of Funkadelia after my term as Delegate, but I did respect him as a political adversary. If you believed Funkadelia was doing unacceptable things, and could prove it, then pretty sure we could have avoided the civil war and Task Force Lazarus.

Funkadelia may have had his faults, but loyalty to Lazarus was part of his character, and he may well have stepped down if asked, rather than hurt Lazarus or have it in caught in scandal. What made that impossible was talk of an actual coup against him, which destroyed his trust in long term natives, objectivity of the courts, and in fellow members of the old guard.

Lazarus was so close that we shared the root admin, never considering it would ever be used against each other. It had some sweet innocence during the HRL and CU, and a lot of naivety, but it tried to repair bridges despite deep hesitation, with the NPO. I personally pushed to restore relations with the Order, and later Loftegen suceeded in this.

I don't think this is the response the NPO might have been looking for from me, but it is pretty heart felt. I don't know what direction the current Lazarene govt will take, but it won't be from anger or a desire to 'destroy the NPO', in my case, and hopefully not from the rest either.

That said, I don't hold vendettas in NS, though I do rib people from time to time. So whatever happens, I wish the NPO best of luck, the complexities of NS geo-politics aside.
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Kyorgia
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Posts: 279
Founded: Jun 07, 2014
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Kyorgia » Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:05 am

Neo Domais wrote:We are for a Pacific that plays nice with there fellow regions!


Ah yes all the raiders in this war are known for

checks notes

playing nice with their fellow regions :eyebrow:
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Myrth
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 344
Founded: Antiquity
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Myrth » Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:16 am

New Rogernomics wrote:-snip-.


It's a refreshing sign to read a reasoned, thought out post on the matter of recent events. It's good to see the tone moving away from the hyperbole and mindless rhetoric of certain other elements who've used the situation to stir things up owing to their personal axe to grind.
NPO dewenda est ;;w;;

Founded: 31st December 2002

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Your Imaginary Friend
Attaché
 
Posts: 88
Founded: Jan 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Your Imaginary Friend » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:59 am

Thank you NR.

I share similar sentiments. I have friends in the NPO who I respect, but because of all this stupid sneaky stuff the government has been involved in, like, continuously for the last several years, I can't reasonably put my trust in anyone who has anything to do with them anymore. Literally every time I talk to an NPOer now I ask myself "Are they trying to manipulate me for one of their destructive feederite/userite goals?"

Sadness. :/

-

I hope the NPO figures its stuff out and can be a respectful government in the game, but Lazarus is done with being friends.
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Also known as Sylven in another life...

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Devi
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Posts: 172
Founded: Nov 09, 2018
Anarchy

Postby Devi » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:10 am

Myrth wrote:
New Rogernomics wrote:-snip-.


It's a refreshing sign to read a reasoned, thought out post on the matter of recent events. It's good to see the tone moving away from the hyperbole and mindless rhetoric of certain other elements who've used the situation to stir things up owing to their personal axe to grind.


A very interesting sentiment to hold, given your own behaviour over the past few days. I do hope you take it to heart :blush:
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Myrth
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Founded: Antiquity
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Myrth » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:30 am

Devi wrote:
Myrth wrote:
It's a refreshing sign to read a reasoned, thought out post on the matter of recent events. It's good to see the tone moving away from the hyperbole and mindless rhetoric of certain other elements who've used the situation to stir things up owing to their personal axe to grind.


A very interesting sentiment to hold, given your own behaviour over the past few days. I do hope you take it to heart :blush:


My hyperbole and rhetoric is born of patriotism rather than personal axe-grinding :hug:
NPO dewenda est ;;w;;

Founded: 31st December 2002

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Cormactopia Prime
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Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:31 am

Myrth wrote:
Devi wrote:
A very interesting sentiment to hold, given your own behaviour over the past few days. I do hope you take it to heart :blush:


My hyperbole and rhetoric is born of patriotism rather than personal axe-grinding :hug:

So is the rhetoric of those opposed to the NPO. The NPO attacked our regions with infiltration and subversion operations.

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Imperium of Josh
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Posts: 195
Founded: Nov 25, 2015
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Imperium of Josh » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:39 pm

Cormactopia Prime wrote:
Myrth wrote:
My hyperbole and rhetoric is born of patriotism rather than personal axe-grinding :hug:

So is the rhetoric of those opposed to the NPO. The NPO attacked our regions with infiltration and subversion operations.

Indeed. I can't say I've got the most extensive GP history, and I've certainly made no enemies pertinent to this issue. Personal axe-grinding doesn't factor at all, merely a political desire for NPO as a government to stop being a threat to places I care about. And if that requires that NPO ceases to exist as a governing system, as I believe is one of the only ways for my desires to be fulfilled, then so be it.

For a brighter future!

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New Rogernomics
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9510
Founded: Aug 22, 2006
Left-wing Utopia

Postby New Rogernomics » Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:03 pm

Imperium of Josh wrote:
Cormactopia Prime wrote:So is the rhetoric of those opposed to the NPO. The NPO attacked our regions with infiltration and subversion operations.

Indeed. I can't say I've got the most extensive GP history, and I've certainly made no enemies pertinent to this issue. Personal axe-grinding doesn't factor at all, merely a political desire for NPO as a government to stop being a threat to places I care about. And if that requires that NPO ceases to exist as a governing system, as I believe is one of the only ways for my desires to be fulfilled, then so be it.

For a brighter future!
Pretty sure the last line of the condemnation isn't achievable, even if nations agree to the other points. Wouldn't be surprised if nations not invested in this, just vote for, for the lols.
Herald (Vice-Delegate) of Lazarus
"Solidarity forever..."
Hoping for Peace in Israel and Palestine
  • Former First Citizen (PM) of Lazarus
  • Former Proedroi (Minister) of Foreign Affairs of Lazarus
  • Former Lazarus Delegate (Humane Republic of Lazarus, 2015)
  • Minister of Culture & Media (Humane Republic of Lazarus)
  • Foreign Minister of The Ascendancy (RIP, and purged)
  • Senator of The Ascendancy (RIP, and purged)
  • Interior Commissioner of Lazarus (Pre-People's Republic of Lazarus)
  • At some point a member of the Grey family...then father vanished...
  • Foreign Minister of The Last Kingdom (RIP)
  • ADN:DSA Rep for Eastern Roman Empire
  • Honoratus Servant of the Holy Land (Eastern Roman Empire)
  • UN/WA Delegate of Trans Atlantice (RIP)

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Consular
Minister
 
Posts: 3019
Founded: Apr 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Consular » Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:25 pm

Cormactopia Prime wrote:
Myrth wrote:
My hyperbole and rhetoric is born of patriotism rather than personal axe-grinding :hug:

So is the rhetoric of those opposed to the NPO. The NPO attacked our regions with infiltration and subversion operations.

No but you see the goalposts are different for Myrth. :roll:

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Lord Dominator
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Lord Dominator » Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:30 pm

Consular wrote:
Cormactopia Prime wrote:So is the rhetoric of those opposed to the NPO. The NPO attacked our regions with infiltration and subversion operations.

No but you see the goalposts are different for Myrth. :roll:

We had to move them to accommodate his age :p

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Ever-Wandering Souls
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Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:26 pm

I'd like, if anyone has a moment and some authority, to know why The Pacific does not consider The Black Hawks' "grievances" to be "legitimate" while to does consider those of other regions it treated equally or less poorly to be fair. Does The Pacific deny that it undertook repeated acts of one sided aggression against The Black Hawks? Does it claim that it's perfectly acceptable to treat us that way since we're a UCR, despite having no prior deigns on The Pacific's business?

Thanks.
Proud Raider; General of The Black Hawks, Ret.
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The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
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The color or what?..

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Doing it Rightland
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Founded: Dec 20, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Doing it Rightland » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:32 pm

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:I'd like, if anyone has a moment and some authority, to know why The Pacific does not consider The Black Hawks' "grievances" to be "legitimate" while to does consider those of other regions it treated equally or less poorly to be fair. Does The Pacific deny that it undertook repeated acts of one sided aggression against The Black Hawks? Does it claim that it's perfectly acceptable to treat us that way since we're a UCR, despite having no prior deigns on The Pacific's business?

Thanks.

I am by no means an authority, however, I would like to be of some assistance. Please note that this is not the official opinion of the NPO, just mine.

The Black Hawks has a (proud) history of disregard for other regions' sovereignty and the international community, as evidence by their raiding, and multiple condemnations. Does this mean the NPO and/or the nations involved should be let off without punishment? Absolutely not. While I don't fully agree with the exclusion of TBH grievances, it does appear that the NPO justifies its disdain for TBH on account of TBH's disdain for other regions, including some which reside within the NPO's "Sphere of Influence" (which evidently is still up for debate). Since TBH has shown little past care for the wills of opposing regions, there isn't a good reason why the Pacific ought to treat TBH in a positive manner.
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Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
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Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:54 pm

Earlier today, Svezjacael announced his resignation on both the NPO and the Lazarus forums. You can read his resignation here on Lazarus' forum.

What really caught my eye though was this exchange between Pergamon and Svezjacael on the NPO forum:

Image

It's almost like no one in the NPO is really serious about this, and they're just going through the motions hoping we're all stupid enough to be placated. Because people who are talking about how much they hate all of us and vaguely threatening future retribution aren't people who are serious about apologizing, accepting responsibility, and honestly pursuing reform. They're people biding their time until their next opportunity to attack our regions.

No one should fall for any of this.

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Galiantus III
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Posts: 1453
Founded: Jan 23, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Galiantus III » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:08 pm

Doing it Rightland wrote:
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:I'd like, if anyone has a moment and some authority, to know why The Pacific does not consider The Black Hawks' "grievances" to be "legitimate" while to does consider those of other regions it treated equally or less poorly to be fair. Does The Pacific deny that it undertook repeated acts of one sided aggression against The Black Hawks? Does it claim that it's perfectly acceptable to treat us that way since we're a UCR, despite having no prior deigns on The Pacific's business?

Thanks.

I am by no means an authority, however, I would like to be of some assistance. Please note that this is not the official opinion of the NPO, just mine.

The Black Hawks has a (proud) history of disregard for other regions' sovereignty and the international community, as evidence by their raiding, and multiple condemnations. Does this mean the NPO and/or the nations involved should be let off without punishment? Absolutely not. While I don't fully agree with the exclusion of TBH grievances, it does appear that the NPO justifies its disdain for TBH on account of TBH's disdain for other regions, including some which reside within the NPO's "Sphere of Influence" (which evidently is still up for debate). Since TBH has shown little past care for the wills of opposing regions, there isn't a good reason why the Pacific ought to treat TBH in a positive manner.

Part of the reason TBH is being treated better than the NPO, at least PR-wise, has to do with the fact that they are an open book. They own what they do, and they honor their alliances. If I were to challenge Souls on any TBH operation, he would say "Yes, we did that. That's what we do". They don't gaslight their opponents and deflect. Another factor here is that TBH, despite the military power available to it being significantly larger than the NPO, is not going around empire-building. They typically raid a place, raise their flag, party for a few weeks at the natives' expense, then leave. The NPO, on the other hand, has made obvious attempts at empire-building among the GCRs, and maintains UCR colonies where possible. It is nice the NPO was against Nazis, but I can't exactly call that special, because pretty much everyone loves a little fash-bash. The point is, the NPO takes itself extremely serious, and uses treaties and agreements as tools to leverage and gain power. TBH likes to show off their power, but they don't take themselves seriously and they try to maintain good sportsmanship. That is why the NPO is unpopular among friends while TBH is friends even with their enemies.
Last edited by Galiantus III on Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ever-Wandering Souls
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:46 pm

Doing it Rightland wrote:
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:I'd like, if anyone has a moment and some authority, to know why The Pacific does not consider The Black Hawks' "grievances" to be "legitimate" while to does consider those of other regions it treated equally or less poorly to be fair. Does The Pacific deny that it undertook repeated acts of one sided aggression against The Black Hawks? Does it claim that it's perfectly acceptable to treat us that way since we're a UCR, despite having no prior deigns on The Pacific's business?

Thanks.

I am by no means an authority, however, I would like to be of some assistance. Please note that this is not the official opinion of the NPO, just mine.

The Black Hawks has a (proud) history of disregard for other regions' sovereignty and the international community, as evidence by their raiding, and multiple condemnations. Does this mean the NPO and/or the nations involved should be let off without punishment? Absolutely not. While I don't fully agree with the exclusion of TBH grievances, it does appear that the NPO justifies its disdain for TBH on account of TBH's disdain for other regions, including some which reside within the NPO's "Sphere of Influence" (which evidently is still up for debate). Since TBH has shown little past care for the wills of opposing regions, there isn't a good reason why the Pacific ought to treat TBH in a positive manner.


Yeah, frankly, you don't really know what you're talking about.

The Pacific and the NPO are not moralist defenders. Nowhere in their ideology, which is very clearly stated, is any push to protect innocent regions. In fact, it's quite explicitly stated that as long as a given UCR is not trying to meddle in *their* business, they're of no consequence. And until The Pacific attacked The Black Hawks very repeatedly and in violation of standing agreements, we did not, in fact, attack anything tied to The Pacific, or The Pacific itself.

A good reason TP should have ignored is because they had no good reason to make enemies of us. Which is exactly what they agreed to in three different diplomatic talks where they agreed to stop acting aggressively towards us. And yet, they did not. While we were not allies, we were uninvolved parties, and The Pacific had very explicitly agreed to undertake no further espionage or other acts of aggression against us. I have the receipts, and can show them if need be.

Now see, again, they did not respect those agreements. They probably thought themselves superior, and us too little to do anything of note about any violation of them. As said at the time, it really would have been best for both of us to avoid conflict, but The Pacific just couldn't bring it upon themselves to do so. And thus, it has been my absolute pleasure to be at the forefront of using their own words and actions further against them. Meanwhile, despite their repeated pledging otherwise, they've yet to face us on the field since St Abbaddon.

Anyways, I'm being kind of facetious at this point, given that I'm not really sure it matters to TBH whether TP gives our concerns lip service at this point. I just find it amusing that when they infiltrated and broke agreements with other GCR's, there's "legitimate grievances," while stating the fact that they did the same to TBH is "slander."
Proud Raider; General of The Black Hawks, Ret.
TG me anytime; I'm always happy to talk about anything!

The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

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Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

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Doing it Rightland
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 143
Founded: Dec 20, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Doing it Rightland » Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:27 am

Galiantus III wrote:Part of the reason TBH is being treated better than the NPO, at least PR-wise, has to do with the fact that they are an open book. They own what they do, and they honor their alliances. If I were to challenge Souls on any TBH operation, he would say "Yes, we did that. That's what we do". They don't gaslight their opponents and deflect. Another factor here is that TBH, despite the military power available to it being significantly larger than the NPO, is not going around empire-building. They typically raid a place, raise their flag, party for a few weeks at the natives' expense, then leave. The NPO, on the other hand, has made obvious attempts at empire-building among the GCRs, and maintains UCR colonies where possible. It is nice the NPO was against Nazis, but I can't exactly call that special, because pretty much everyone loves a little fash-bash. The point is, the NPO takes itself extremely serious, and uses treaties and agreements as tools to leverage and gain power. TBH likes to show off their power, but they don't take themselves seriously and they try to maintain good sportsmanship. That is why the NPO is unpopular among friends while TBH is friends even with their enemies.

I do agree that TBH is a lot more open about all their stuff, and that the NPO really should be too. However, the issue I thought you were concerned about (per the last few posts) was the NPOs treatment of TBH grievances as mere propaganda. Again, while I disagree with how they’re doing it, it still remains that TBH, through their raids, disregards the wills of other regions. And yes, while the TBH does pack up and leave, they still invaded. Since TBH doesn’t listen to other regions, then why should TP listen to them? And on the note of colonies, I don’t think they’re a problem provided both regions agree. From the treaties I’ve read through, this seems to be the case.

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:Yeah, frankly, you don't really know what you're talking about.

The Pacific and the NPO are not moralist defenders. Nowhere in their ideology, which is very clearly stated, is any push to protect innocent regions. In fact, it's quite explicitly stated that as long as a given UCR is not trying to meddle in *their* business, they're of no consequence. And until The Pacific attacked The Black Hawks very repeatedly and in violation of standing agreements, we did not, in fact, attack anything tied to The Pacific, or The Pacific itself.

A good reason TP should have ignored is because they had no good reason to make enemies of us. Which is exactly what they agreed to in three different diplomatic talks where they agreed to stop acting aggressively towards us. And yet, they did not. While we were not allies, we were uninvolved parties, and The Pacific had very explicitly agreed to undertake no further espionage or other acts of aggression against us. I have the receipts, and can show them if need be.

Now see, again, they did not respect those agreements. They probably thought themselves superior, and us too little to do anything of note about any violation of them. As said at the time, it really would have been best for both of us to avoid conflict, but The Pacific just couldn't bring it upon themselves to do so. And thus, it has been my absolute pleasure to be at the forefront of using their own words and actions further against them. Meanwhile, despite their repeated pledging otherwise, they've yet to face us on the field since St Abbaddon.

Anyways, I'm being kind of facetious at this point, given that I'm not really sure it matters to TBH whether TP gives our concerns lip service at this point. I just find it amusing that when they infiltrated and broke agreements with other GCR's, there's "legitimate grievances," while stating the fact that they did the same to TBH is "slander."

I am not well versed in NS History, and have no clue what attacks by TP on TBH you’re referencing here. If you wouldn’t mind explaining those a little bit, as well as sharing those receipts you mentioned, that would help a lot.

Again, everything here is my opinion and understanding, and not that of TP or the NPO.
Just a nation trying to right the wrongs it can.

"Do kayokem anmodo kemode arboyem, y mi — mi ansido na."
-Rightlandian Proverb

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2SDOATS
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 25
Founded: Nov 26, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby 2SDOATS » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:25 am

This has been the final nail in the coffin of players crying and screaming kicking when they don't like what happened.

The narrative changed, but theyll claim there is more then one grievance which isnt true. The very large and obvious bias is present. Two of the loudest most vocal have the largest bias. The only issue that should be taken is on the use of pariah players. The other game moves do not now nor ever warrent a player being banned and effectively ending their ns career. Its a joke. If cormac was banned from every region he ever coupd or subverted we wouldnt have him in the game and don't kid yourself these same loud voices wouldnt allow the region to ever welcome them back because these players are incapable of duality of game and life and to see what this game has become is disgusting. Having played since 2003 and see how cliqued up this place is become and if yu scream the loudest youll get your way is tantamount to toddlers and babies.

The NPO out moved gp and the salt from it is beyond funny, the amount of tears I see in gp is basically the same as thethe clip of that poor soul that when trump was finally annouced as president screamed noooooooo. Get over it you dont care about what they did in the game your bias proves this and youll defend by no im capable of separating. But cormac is on record saying you dont attack Osiris and nownow is on a witch hunt i don't know where in the rules it says you cant subvert allies. But this place is virtually useless as a political game anymore its more a haven for a group of players to forget how much they are not important in reality so they come here and condesend new people and laud the fake power of a region.

Its the "elite" players like the loud vocal few that make new players not want to join this cesspool of toxic and ego which is sad.. Because you all were new once, posts are disregarded because of spelling and grammar and being new. Thats some petty bs.

Let me just say this. If the loud vocal few actually end the few involves game becareful because if you annoy them its only a matter of time before they turn on you. They don't care about having dissenting views they want a bubble. They like to hear themselves talk probably because they feel like their voice isnt heard else where its classic transference.

Yeah, I'm a puppet but thats because I dont have enough respect for you to use my main. Change your tone and actually look at justice tempered with logic and reason. Then I'll come out of the works. Until then, I will continue to show those who are feeling the rumbling in their Coinscince that this is going to far but are to afraid to say so a voice. Its ok. Step up the loud voices can't hurt you they are loud because thats all the have they cant do anything but call you names. They are trying to be rightous bullies. Theres no such thing standstand up gameplay.

Bans are so far beyond extreme its a joke that you are even asking for them. Honestly step back and look.

In the mean time, fight the power!

#gpwa
"Sorry the NationStates Windmill Tilting Society couldn’t come up with a better argument." - Pierconium

User avatar
The Tri State Area and Maine
Envoy
 
Posts: 223
Founded: Feb 02, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Tri State Area and Maine » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:38 am

2SDOATS wrote:This has been the final nail in the coffin of players crying and screaming kicking when they don't like what happened.

The narrative changed, but theyll claim there is more then one grievance which isnt true. The very large and obvious bias is present. Two of the loudest most vocal have the largest bias. The only issue that should be taken is on the use of pariah players. The other game moves do not now nor ever warrent a player being banned and effectively ending their ns career. Its a joke. If cormac was banned from every region he ever coupd or subverted we wouldnt have him in the game and don't kid yourself these same loud voices wouldnt allow the region to ever welcome them back because these players are incapable of duality of game and life and to see what this game has become is disgusting. Having played since 2003 and see how cliqued up this place is become and if yu scream the loudest youll get your way is tantamount to toddlers and babies.

The NPO out moved gp and the salt from it is beyond funny, the amount of tears I see in gp is basically the same as thethe clip of that poor soul that when trump was finally annouced as president screamed noooooooo. Get over it you dont care about what they did in the game your bias proves this and youll defend by no im capable of separating. But cormac is on record saying you dont attack Osiris and nownow is on a witch hunt i don't know where in the rules it says you cant subvert allies. But this place is virtually useless as a political game anymore its more a haven for a group of players to forget how much they are not important in reality so they come here and condesend new people and laud the fake power of a region.

Its the "elite" players like the loud vocal few that make new players not want to join this cesspool of toxic and ego which is sad.. Because you all were new once, posts are disregarded because of spelling and grammar and being new. Thats some petty bs.

Let me just say this. If the loud vocal few actually end the few involves game becareful because if you annoy them its only a matter of time before they turn on you. They don't care about having dissenting views they want a bubble. They like to hear themselves talk probably because they feel like their voice isnt heard else where its classic transference.

Yeah, I'm a puppet but thats because I dont have enough respect for you to use my main. Change your tone and actually look at justice tempered with logic and reason. Then I'll come out of the works. Until then, I will continue to show those who are feeling the rumbling in their Coinscince that this is going to far but are to afraid to say so a voice. Its ok. Step up the loud voices can't hurt you they are loud because thats all the have they cant do anything but call you names. They are trying to be rightous bullies. Theres no such thing standstand up gameplay.

Bans are so far beyond extreme its a joke that you are even asking for them. Honestly step back and look.

In the mean time, fight the power!

#gpwa


So your complaining about people not letting the game being political, and your solution is to make the game less political? Nobody is saying that subversion isn't perfectly legal in the game, it just comes with diplomatic consquences (as is politics.) Do you think the NPO should get away scot-free for trying to coup other regions? As to the point regarding the loud minority, I don't see the issue.
Last edited by The Tri State Area and Maine on Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
2SDOATS
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 25
Founded: Nov 26, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby 2SDOATS » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:21 am

The Tri State Area and Maine wrote:
2SDOATS wrote:This has been the final nail in the coffin of players crying and screaming kicking when they don't like what happened.

The narrative changed, but theyll claim there is more then one grievance which isnt true. The very large and obvious bias is present. Two of the loudest most vocal have the largest bias. The only issue that should be taken is on the use of pariah players. The other game moves do not now nor ever warrent a player being banned and effectively ending their ns career. Its a joke. If cormac was banned from every region he ever coupd or subverted we wouldnt have him in the game and don't kid yourself these same loud voices wouldnt allow the region to ever welcome them back because these players are incapable of duality of game and life and to see what this game has become is disgusting. Having played since 2003 and see how cliqued up this place is become and if yu scream the loudest youll get your way is tantamount to toddlers and babies.

The NPO out moved gp and the salt from it is beyond funny, the amount of tears I see in gp is basically the same as thethe clip of that poor soul that when trump was finally annouced as president screamed noooooooo. Get over it you dont care about what they did in the game your bias proves this and youll defend by no im capable of separating. But cormac is on record saying you dont attack Osiris and nownow is on a witch hunt i don't know where in the rules it says you cant subvert allies. But this place is virtually useless as a political game anymore its more a haven for a group of players to forget how much they are not important in reality so they come here and condesend new people and laud the fake power of a region.

Its the "elite" players like the loud vocal few that make new players not want to join this cesspool of toxic and ego which is sad.. Because you all were new once, posts are disregarded because of spelling and grammar and being new. Thats some petty bs.

Let me just say this. If the loud vocal few actually end the few involves game becareful because if you annoy them its only a matter of time before they turn on you. They don't care about having dissenting views they want a bubble. They like to hear themselves talk probably because they feel like their voice isnt heard else where its classic transference.

Yeah, I'm a puppet but thats because I dont have enough respect for you to use my main. Change your tone and actually look at justice tempered with logic and reason. Then I'll come out of the works. Until then, I will continue to show those who are feeling the rumbling in their Coinscince that this is going to far but are to afraid to say so a voice. Its ok. Step up the loud voices can't hurt you they are loud because thats all the have they cant do anything but call you names. They are trying to be rightous bullies. Theres no such thing standstand up gameplay.

Bans are so far beyond extreme its a joke that you are even asking for them. Honestly step back and look.

In the mean time, fight the power!

#gpwa


So your complaining about people not letting the game being political, and your solution is to make the game less political? Nobody is saying that subversion isn't perfectly legal in the game, it just comes with diplomatic consquences (as is politics.) Do you think the NPO should get away scot-free for trying to coup other regions? As to the point regarding the loud minority, I don't see the issue.


There shoulf be repercussions. Yes. Ic repercussions not game ending for those involvinvolved. Perg being banned solves nothing. Other than souls and cormac ridding the game of a player they have a history of not liking ic and ooc.

I take no issue with consequences. Ever. I am firm believer in actions and reactions. I believe to just nuke the npo because they installed a puppet region and spai on allies is the least of what they did. But ending a career for use of a pariah player when thenother side has now embraced totone of the pirah players is laughable anand down right hypocrisy.

Which is why I called on the delegates of the gcrs to step back and rethink where this is heading. In the moment calling on ending game players games is a serious thing and should never be taken lightly would you like to wake to a game where everyone is doing what you did and you wont be accepted because a small few hate your game moves and how youyou handle yourself when you were well within the games rules. Then the "actual" gp agreed upon rules. I am a rule breaker and have always and will still accept my penalty but to effectiveleffectively ebd it because you have never liked a regionnof its senate is a bit much. Its not jusjustice its a lynching. To show look we got the last laugh because we never liked you and you out moved us so we'll shown you.

Its not the first time one of the loudest voices decries toxicity then uses it as a weapon.
"Sorry the NationStates Windmill Tilting Society couldn’t come up with a better argument." - Pierconium

User avatar
Lord Dominator
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8900
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Lord Dominator » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:54 am

Here's this odd thing, but Perg isn't banned from NS Gameplay or anything just the NS NPO. He is of course free to join anywhere else that will take him.

As to your ranting against Cormac & Souls, bullshit. Of the three regions that demanded some form of a punishment, I know two (TNP and Lazarus) that neither was involved whatsoever in the decision making process, and the third (Osiris) I am reasonably sure that Cormac wasn't involved in that decision making process. The idea that either or both is some puppet-master manipulating events to get rid of a player that they don't like is ludicrous.

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