Imperial Statement from the New Pacific Order

[Consular]

If you really want us to work with you than we need better demands that have nothing to do with the destruction of the NPO which WILL NEVER HAPPEN !!!

Until then all I see are empty threats.

No region has demanded that. Stop propping up straw men to make yourselves look like the victim.

You've admitted you hadn't even looked at the demands. Why have you been going around posting without even taking basic steps to inform yourself? Incredible

But only if you can also promise that if all of it is done that there will be peace.

The region that keeps destroying peace is yours. We don't owe a promise of anything.

NPO isn't going to apologies for playing the game, coups and huge military battles is what keeps NS gameplay worthwhile. The ST Abby battle finally got me interested in NS a lot again after a 2 week long hiatus.

Hate to break it to ya buddy, but your new Emperor basically has apologised for playing the game. Maybe check what line you're supposed to be following eh

Yet again, we have someone of no significance in the NPO speaking on behalf of the NPO lol? The NPO apologized before, dudamus. A bit before your time. Granted, they went back on it anyways and continued their shitty actions but they still apologized.

You have significance to who? Your not even WA. Not in your place to call me irrelevant

1. *You're
2. You are irrelevant.

You have to realize, that these people are very important in the NPO. And they still hold a lot of influence. I don't even think, as an outside observer, that East Durthanhag even has the authority to ban these people. Remember that Aly is still the delegate. And the Lazarus demand was clearly a public statement. Do they really think, that consiring their track record, that their was only a few people involved in this. Their whole leadership was in on it. But I doubt that either the NPO fanboys or the people desperate for an 'apology' will admit it.

This post of yours starts out making sense but then rapidly climbs aboard the fast train to what the fuck.

[Tim-Opolis]

Not sure if y'all are aware, but this is a big fucking task y'all are demanding from the NPO. Clearly the first steps they've taken weren't the conclusion to their actions. Maybe save some time bitching and wait for them deliver their negotiations and reforms to conclusion before you keep yapping up a pointless storm.

[King Bradley]

Not sure if y'all are aware, but this is a big fucking task y'all are demanding from the NPO. Clearly the first steps they've taken weren't the conclusion to their actions. Maybe save some time bitching and wait for them deliver their negotiations and reforms to conclusion before you keep yapping up a pointless storm.

Yeh, um no. Banning people for the right reasons and issuing a statement takes mere moments.

[2SDOATS]

The problem is Every one is going to war then demands the npo listen to them

Think about it kids. Im going to be attacked unless threatened. Any one here read the story if you give a mouse a cookie story...

Moral of the story don't give the mouse the damn cookie. I have be told rl examples aren't to be used here. Which is idiotiidiotic but its gpgp so it makes sense.

So since this place is fiction I'll use fiction and have zao yell at me for that.

Death star 2 in front of them the imperial fleet behind them. All they had to do is surrender being out gunned maned and the endor spais captured.

Han didnt give up. And the rebellion won. Now who was right in star wars the rebrls who got innocent systems blown to pieces or the imperialisimperialisimperialist forces who blew the systems to crap. See, yall are forcing the logic that victory will occur. There can not bebe a victory when there is a war for no one wins. Ns needs what the NPO did because cormacs career is built on couping. Several of you others I'll not blow your undercover identities have inflitrated regions for chao reasons.

Now on to the end point. The NPO owes no region anything. And theres two things you van do about that. Nothing. And. Like it.

Thus endth the lesson.

[Lord Dominator]

Thank you for that mis-spelled and broken grammar of a statement anonymous puppet, I'm sure we're all pay very much attention to that and not laugh instead at all

[Tim-Opolis]

Not sure if y'all are aware, but this is a big fucking task y'all are demanding from the NPO. Clearly the first steps they've taken weren't the conclusion to their actions. Maybe save some time bitching and wait for them deliver their negotiations and reforms to conclusion before you keep yapping up a pointless storm.

Yeh, um no. Banning people for the right reasons and issuing a statement takes mere moments.

Sorry, I don't think you have an invite to this party.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Not sure if y'all are aware, but this is a big fucking task y'all are demanding from the NPO. Clearly the first steps they've taken weren't the conclusion to their actions. Maybe save some time bitching and wait for them deliver their negotiations and reforms to conclusion before you keep yapping up a pointless storm.

There's no reason it should take days or weeks to decide to remove the relevant people from office and ban them as requested. They're stalling, because the longer they stall the more people like you will come out of the woodwork with propaganda setting the bar for "reasonable" at giving them another chance without the removals from office and bans. They're hoping they can stall long enough that everyone will stop demanding they remove Svezjacael from office and ban him, ban Pergamon, etc. There is no other reason for it to take this long. Delaying is a tactic to evade real consequences for their actions.

[The Seeker of Power]

The North Pacific asked for:

• that Svezjacael is immediately removed from his role as Quaestor and Senator and banned from the Pacific for his acts of aggression against The North Pacific and other allies and GCRs

The Osiris Fraternal Order asked for:

• Those responsible for the infiltration of Osiris are permanently banned from the Pacific and their actions are publicly disavowed.
• Pergamon for hiding Block's identity and advising him on how to better deceive us is removed as Consul and permanently banned from the Pacific. NPO publicly promises that it will never again allow our communities to endure OOC threats by their hands without our consent and prior knowledge. (Hint: we do not consent)
• For either weaponization of the idea of plausible deniability or genuine incompetence on Aleisyr's part that has reached so far as to destroy the sovereignty and nearly lead to the coup of several GCRs by Pacificans, Aleisyr steps down and allows someone who can be more trusted to pay at least enough attention to his region that it doesn't put the rest of us in danger to take delegacy.
• Any further information regarding threats to the security of Osiris or our fellow GCRs is released immediately.
• Any further information regarding OOC threats that NPO is harboring or has harbored is released immediately.

Lazarus asked for:

• Permanent removal from office in the NPO of the leaders of the Lazarus Task Force, inclusive of Aleisyr, Pergamon, Svezjacael, Stujenske, and Feux
• Other suspicious or undesirable nations known to the NPO to be resident in Lazarus or any off-site property are to be immediately reported to Lazarene regional staff
• The NPO may not deploy operations within our borders, unless future Lazarene policy allows support of a legal delegacy transition
• An official apology from the NPO for its recently revealed offences against Lazarus and other regions

The South Pacific asked for:

• We demand that Svezjacael and Pergamon be permanently banned from the Pacific and that any further information regarding threats to the South Pacific or our fellow Game-Created Regions be released immediately.

None of that is paraphrased or misquoted. It is literally copy and pasted. Click the links and you'll see. None of these demands have been fully met to any acceptable standard.

None of these demands call for the destruction of the NPO.

I have a question, but please understand this is me being funny, is not any kind of statement from the Order (plus I'm not in the Senate):

Has anyone asked TRR if they are comfortable receiving in their ranks those who you want banned? Cuz in the end, it seems easy for you all to demand their banning knowing that you can also ban them... But TRR can't... :/

[Greater vakolicci haven]

The North Pacific asked for:

• that Svezjacael is immediately removed from his role as Quaestor and Senator and banned from the Pacific for his acts of aggression against The North Pacific and other allies and GCRs

The Osiris Fraternal Order asked for:

• Those responsible for the infiltration of Osiris are permanently banned from the Pacific and their actions are publicly disavowed.
• Pergamon for hiding Block's identity and advising him on how to better deceive us is removed as Consul and permanently banned from the Pacific. NPO publicly promises that it will never again allow our communities to endure OOC threats by their hands without our consent and prior knowledge. (Hint: we do not consent)
• For either weaponization of the idea of plausible deniability or genuine incompetence on Aleisyr's part that has reached so far as to destroy the sovereignty and nearly lead to the coup of several GCRs by Pacificans, Aleisyr steps down and allows someone who can be more trusted to pay at least enough attention to his region that it doesn't put the rest of us in danger to take delegacy.
• Any further information regarding threats to the security of Osiris or our fellow GCRs is released immediately.
• Any further information regarding OOC threats that NPO is harboring or has harbored is released immediately.

Lazarus asked for:

• Permanent removal from office in the NPO of the leaders of the Lazarus Task Force, inclusive of Aleisyr, Pergamon, Svezjacael, Stujenske, and Feux
• Other suspicious or undesirable nations known to the NPO to be resident in Lazarus or any off-site property are to be immediately reported to Lazarene regional staff
• The NPO may not deploy operations within our borders, unless future Lazarene policy allows support of a legal delegacy transition
• An official apology from the NPO for its recently revealed offences against Lazarus and other regions

The South Pacific asked for:

• We demand that Svezjacael and Pergamon be permanently banned from the Pacific and that any further information regarding threats to the South Pacific or our fellow Game-Created Regions be released immediately.

None of that is paraphrased or misquoted. It is literally copy and pasted. Click the links and you'll see. None of these demands have been fully met to any acceptable standard.

None of these demands call for the destruction of the NPO.

I have a question, but please understand this is me being funny, is not any kind of statement from the Order (plus I'm not in the Senate):

Has anyone asked TRR if they are comfortable receiving in their ranks those who you want banned? Cuz in the end, it seems easy for you all to demand their banning knowing that you can also ban them... But TRR can't... :/

TRR can comfortably ignore them though, never let them gain any position of power and pretty much blacklist them from all but the rmb.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Not sure if y'all are aware, but this is a big fucking task y'all are demanding from the NPO. Clearly the first steps they've taken weren't the conclusion to their actions. Maybe save some time bitching and wait for them deliver their negotiations and reforms to conclusion before you keep yapping up a pointless storm.

Is it?

If these infiltrations of other regions were independent and not NPO policy, then the pressure is supporting the npo by giving them a reason to get rid...which admittedly they shouldn't need. I don't know about you, but when people are infiltrating regions and dragging the name of the region through the mud, would you want to still associate with that person or would you see them as bad news?

[Glen-Rhodes]

I can’t recall any other region in recent history banning so many of their own players when they got caught in an infiltration mission. So yeah, as much as I think the NPO screwed up and has to suffer the diplomatic consequences, the idea that they haven’t taken extraordinary measures already is pretty dumb.

I’ve been saying it this whole time and it bears repeating: NPO is not the only one who has done this. They’re just the most successful. And they’re the only ones, afaik, who have ever responded by wholesale banning long-time members of their community.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

I can’t recall any other region in recent history banning so many of their own players when they got caught in an infiltration mission. So yeah, as much as I think the NPO screwed up and has to suffer the diplomatic consequences, the idea that they haven’t taken extraordinary measures already is pretty dumb.

I’ve been saying it this whole time and it bears repeating: NPO is not the only one who has done this. They’re just the most successful. And they’re the only ones, afaik, who have ever responded by wholesale banning long-time members of their community.

What they are though is the only organisation which does this again and again and again, bans a few people, waits for it to die down, and then brings them back. It's becoming a theme, if it's not already one.

[Cormactopia Prime]

I can’t recall any other region in recent history banning so many of their own players when they got caught in an infiltration mission. So yeah, as much as I think the NPO screwed up and has to suffer the diplomatic consequences, the idea that they haven’t taken extraordinary measures already is pretty dumb.

I’ve been saying it this whole time and it bears repeating: NPO is not the only one who has done this. They’re just the most successful. And they’re the only ones, afaik, who have ever responded by wholesale banning long-time members of their community.

So far, they've only banned Feux and AMOM, and they haven't announced whether these bans will be permanent. Both have been pushed off the ban list already, though that was probably accidental, but nonetheless it would be good to have some indication that they and Stujenske will be banned again if they attempt to return and that they will remain banned. Pergamon and Svezjacael have not been banned. Svezjacael hasn't even been dismissed from the Senate, despite participating in infiltrations of both Lazarus and The North Pacific. So let's not pretend the measures they've taken thus far are extraordinary. Thus far they've just scapegoated Feux and AMOM again, which is also what they did after the NLO -- but both were eventually permitted to return to the NPO, and Feux was even reinstated to the Senate despite their knowledge of his infiltration. Everyone should expect more this time.

In regard to your claim that other regions have done this, you're going to need to present some evidence for that, otherwise you're just making up a whataboutism that may not even be true -- and in all likelihood isn't -- and hoping people will believe it because it sounds plausible. We presented meticulous evidence against the NPO to prove they were engaged in the exposed infiltrations. If you can't present any evidence of these kinds of subversive infiltrations undertaken by other regions, you really shouldn't be claiming other regions are doing it. I've never known of any region I've participated in to be engaged in anything like this. So I think you're just making that claim up and hoping it sticks, and I'm calling you on it. Every time you've been called on it, you've been unable to put forward any evidence to back up your claims. I doubt this time will be any different. Stop carrying water for the NPO.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

I can’t recall any other region in recent history banning so many of their own players when they got caught in an infiltration mission.

I can. It was the New Pacific Order, who banned these exact same players in the past and then let them back in. This line of reasoning is silly.

The North Pacific asked for:

• that Svezjacael is immediately removed from his role as Quaestor and Senator and banned from the Pacific for his acts of aggression against The North Pacific and other allies and GCRs

The Osiris Fraternal Order asked for:

• Those responsible for the infiltration of Osiris are permanently banned from the Pacific and their actions are publicly disavowed.
• Pergamon for hiding Block's identity and advising him on how to better deceive us is removed as Consul and permanently banned from the Pacific. NPO publicly promises that it will never again allow our communities to endure OOC threats by their hands without our consent and prior knowledge. (Hint: we do not consent)
• For either weaponization of the idea of plausible deniability or genuine incompetence on Aleisyr's part that has reached so far as to destroy the sovereignty and nearly lead to the coup of several GCRs by Pacificans, Aleisyr steps down and allows someone who can be more trusted to pay at least enough attention to his region that it doesn't put the rest of us in danger to take delegacy.
• Any further information regarding threats to the security of Osiris or our fellow GCRs is released immediately.
• Any further information regarding OOC threats that NPO is harboring or has harbored is released immediately.

Lazarus asked for:

• Permanent removal from office in the NPO of the leaders of the Lazarus Task Force, inclusive of Aleisyr, Pergamon, Svezjacael, Stujenske, and Feux
• Other suspicious or undesirable nations known to the NPO to be resident in Lazarus or any off-site property are to be immediately reported to Lazarene regional staff
• The NPO may not deploy operations within our borders, unless future Lazarene policy allows support of a legal delegacy transition
• An official apology from the NPO for its recently revealed offences against Lazarus and other regions

The South Pacific asked for:

• We demand that Svezjacael and Pergamon be permanently banned from the Pacific and that any further information regarding threats to the South Pacific or our fellow Game-Created Regions be released immediately.

None of that is paraphrased or misquoted. It is literally copy and pasted. Click the links and you'll see. None of these demands have been fully met to any acceptable standard.

None of these demands call for the destruction of the NPO.

I have a question, but please understand this is me being funny, is not any kind of statement from the Order (plus I'm not in the Senate):

Has anyone asked TRR if they are comfortable receiving in their ranks those who you want banned? Cuz in the end, it seems easy for you all to demand their banning knowing that you can also ban them... But TRR can't... :/

TRR is safe and if they ever need help to prevent these players from achieving high office in the region, then I'm sure their allies and friends will.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

*sets popcorn aside*

I can kind of understand why banning pillars of the Pacific's community would be refused, but I can also understand why it would be demanded, since it's these people, not the NPO as a whole (even if it has been a longstanding policy), that committed the acts of espionage that pushed the GCRs into demanding things in the first place - banning the people indicated would do a lot to build trust that has been fundamentally broken by what were, legal gameplay or otherwise, dishonorable acts, and failing to do so would naturally lead down to a breakdown in relations, which would inevitably end somewhere between a cold war and a hot war regardless of what the NPO does after that point. Frankly, considering the NPO's history, the other GCRs would be justified in outright attacking the NPO - the NPO, after all, violated their sovereignty, so it is then fair game for them to violate the NPO's sovereignty - and any offers of peace that are not blatantly hostile (i.e. "dismantle the NPO") can and should be seen as an olive branch.
I'm not in any of the GCRs, and I don't have a stake in this fight. I'm just looking at what I have seen, and as the depiction of events seems to be fairly consistent on all sides (I don't see the NPO denying anything, for instance), I trust my eyes. My eyes are telling me that it is understandable for the NPO to not want to comply, but they also started this fight, and the demands given were less a threat to invade and more along the lines of "prove that you won't do this again and we won't retaliate". As a whole, both sides are being fairly reasonable in this regard.
That being said, I'm leaning towards the anti-NPO group. Their demands are not a harsh ultimatum used as a casus belli, but rather a warning that the NPO is on thin ice, and they should not be expected to forgive the NPO without receiving any concrete assurances that the NPO will cease its espionage efforts.

*starts eating popcorn again*

[Frattastan IV]

Has anyone asked TRR if they are comfortable receiving in their ranks those who you want banned? Cuz in the end, it seems easy for you all to demand their banning knowing that you can also ban them... But TRR can't... :/

There is a reason I made no demands.

[Lord Dominator]

Has anyone asked TRR if they are comfortable receiving in their ranks those who you want banned? Cuz in the end, it seems easy for you all to demand their banning knowing that you can also ban them... But TRR can't... :/

There is a reason I made no demands.

TRR is NPO 2.0 confirmed

[Glen-Rhodes]

Cormac, you’re not stupid. Neither am I. So we both know “provide proof that anyone else has ever infiltrated another region” is a silly thing to say.

I genuinely don’t understand why you’re insisting that this is the first ever act of major infiltration in NS history.

[Frattastan IV]

There is a reason I made no demands.

TRR is NPO 2.0 confirmed

More seriously (and paradoxes about ban requests aside), I didn't think there was any specific set of actions the NPO could have done to restore TRR's confidence in them for the time being. We had already decided that ending relations was deserved, that we weren't changing our opinion on that, and that that was as far as we wanted to go.

it's these people, not the NPO as a whole (even if it has been a longstanding policy), that committed the acts of espionage that pushed the GCRs into demanding things in the first place

At least in the cases of Task Force Lazarus and Svez's work in TNP the participants were officials of the NPO; who had a mandate within the Pacific to order and perform that kind of stuff; and were acting on behalf of their region.
Their successors can disavow what they did, but ultimately the Pacific as a region can be considered responsible. A ban would be a strong political move, but it still wouldn't change the fact that responsibility falls on the NPO "state" rather than Pergamon, etc. as individuals (which is why all the statements are addressed to the NPO, and it's the NPO Emperor that is responding to them... if what he's said so far counts as a response anyway).

Cormac, you’re not stupid. Neither am I. So we both know “provide proof that anyone else has ever infiltrated another region” is a silly thing to say.

I genuinely don’t understand why you’re insisting that this is the first ever act of major infiltration in NS history.

More than the espionage and subversion in itself, I'd say the strong response to this comes from the fact they pursued it towards regions they were (at least nominally) on friendly terms with. The comments about TSP didn't paint it as a relationship between equals either.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Cormac, you’re not stupid. Neither am I. So we both know “provide proof that anyone else has ever infiltrated another region” is a silly thing to say.

I genuinely don’t understand why you’re insisting that this is the first ever act of major infiltration in NS history.

I'm not insisting that. But you're acting like what the NPO has done in terms of infiltration and subversion is common, and that all regions do it. I recognize that it was much more common historically, back during the days of the ADN and RLA (and we know how their infiltrations turned out), but I would posit that it has become far less common than you're implying. Once again, I have never known of an infiltration operation like this undertaken by any region in which I've participated, which includes Osiris where I've served as Pharaoh three times as well as on-and-off forum administrator.

If you're going to act like this is common in 2018 -- not 2008 -- it would be nice if you had a shred of evidence to back up that claim. Because you're using this claim that infiltration and subversion are common to essentially say that what the NPO did is no big deal. Meanwhile, we have evidence of the NPO's infiltration and subversion, but you can't put forward any evidence whatsoever to back up your assertion that what they did is common and everyone is blowing it out of proportion. You're using a fact-free claim that sounds plausible to try to persuade people to go easy on the NPO. I'm not really clear on why, given that the South Pacific and its allies were among the infiltrated, but nonetheless, here you are trying to spin this in the NPO's favor.

Can I assume that you're conceding the silliness of the argument that the NPO's two bans of Feux and AMOM were "extraordinary"?

[Unibot III]

If you're going to act like this is common in 2018 -- not 2008 -- it would be nice if you had a shred of evidence to back up that claim. Because you're using this claim that infiltration and subversion are common to essentially say that what the NPO did is no big deal.

It's arguably not even the biggest infiltration of Osiris. Liz Lemons (Jakker) was pretty wild, no? I didn't see any ramifications of that come from the Black Hawks.

More seriously (and paradoxes about ban requests aside), I didn't think there was any specific set of actions the NPO could have done to restore TRR's confidence in them for the time being. We had already decided that ending relations was deserved, that we weren't changing our opinion on that, and that that was as far as we wanted to go.

*two thumbs up* TRR has it right.

No changing of the guard is going to reasonably persuade anyone that the behaviour we've witnessed from the NPO isn't particular to the NPO as a state, a collective, and as a legacy.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

If you're going to act like this is common in 2018 -- not 2008 -- it would be nice if you had a shred of evidence to back up that claim. Because you're using this claim that infiltration and subversion are common to essentially say that what the NPO did is no big deal.

It's arguably not even the biggest infiltration of Osiris. Liz Lemons (Jakker) was pretty wild, no? I didn't see any ramifications of that come from the Black Hawks.

Liz Lemons was one person, this was four, who at one time occupied all the Guardian positions in the region and only didn't capture the region because the delegate at the time would not be removed. Liz Lemons was a delegacy candidate that likely would not have won. Comparing the two is silly, and to call Jakker's infiltration of Osiris bigger than this NPO one, is ridiculous.

[Darkesia]

No changing of the guard is going to reasonably persuade anyone that the behaviour we've witnessed from the NPO isn't particular to the NPO as a state, a collective, and as a legacy.

I hate it when I agree with Uni. At least it's only on this one point.

In my opinion, infiltration was to be expected. That is a legacy behavior. What is new is the strange reaction over getting caught. Perhaps it is a symptom of the New NPO being staffed by players who just don't have an understandng of NS or the Old (long dead) NPO. If they have no connection to the culture of NationStates, they would feel no compunction over employing the use of Block in their operations. Infiltration is part of the game. I expect more from The Pacific than to use the likes of Block.

This iteration of leadership in The Pacific does not have the slightest idea of how to PLAY NationStates. How can you expect non-players to respond to diplomatic actions? Of course they are stalling. Imagine the daunting task of trying to learn a new game and culture.

[Cormactopia Prime]

If you're going to act like this is common in 2018 -- not 2008 -- it would be nice if you had a shred of evidence to back up that claim. Because you're using this claim that infiltration and subversion are common to essentially say that what the NPO did is no big deal.

It's arguably not even the biggest infiltration of Osiris. Liz Lemons (Jakker) was pretty wild, no? I didn't see any ramifications of that come from the Black Hawks.

Well, just for starters, that saga concluded more than five years ago. You may be right that there weren't sufficient consequences, but that's in the past.

Secondly, though, it's worth noting that just days after Jakker's infiltration was exposed, The Dourian Embassy launched a coup of Osiris backed by Gatesville Inc that lasted for a month. As you can imagine, Osiris became preoccupied by that coup, and afterward became preoccupied with trying to fix the things that allowed the coup to happen in the first place. That resulted in dissolution of the Kemetic Republic of Osiris by the Pharaoh, followed by a civil war, followed by the OFO 1.0 "coup" (I still don't acknowledge it as an actual coup). Osiris was a bit too busy to impose any consequences on The Black Hawks, and by the time the dust settled, Osiris was a radically different region than it had been at the time The Black Hawks infiltrated it. So comparing that situation to this one is really just not a useful comparison when you look at the full context of that incident.

Mad Jack is also correct that the Adytus/Wrektopia/Kowassati/Weast Jurmany infiltration was much bigger than the Lemon Love infiltration.

Regardless of how common infiltrations are -- and I don't think they're at all common anymore -- I'm not sure how anyone expected the wronged parties to respond. "Aw, well, these things happen"? "We didn't punish TBH five years ago, so better not do anything now either"? I think there's a reasonable argument to be made that infiltrations like this weren't handled with appropriate gravity in the past, but how that argument is then turned into "...so they shouldn't be handled with appropriate gravity now either" is the part I'm not getting. If anyone is looking for me to say past infiltrations should have been taken more seriously, fine, I'll say it: Past infiltrations should have been taken more seriously. That's not going to persuade me to then say "since they weren't, we're not going to take this one seriously either." I'm not going to abide by 2013 standards, five years later. I would prefer to set new standards for 2018.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

More than the espionage and subversion in itself, I'd say the strong response to this comes from the fact they pursued it towards regions they were (at least nominally) on friendly terms with. The comments about TSP didn't paint it as a relationship between equals either.

Speaking for The Black Hawks here - while it's absolutely true that we do engage in infiltration, generally against targets, at least in my term in the region we've never really had any sort of spying/espionage ring against *enemies* - much less allies.

Further, while we were not allies with The Pacific, we were a non-hostile party towards them prior to their aggression towards us, pursued diplomacy first, and we had an explicit agreement for the past year or so with The Pacific that any such actions against us would seize in the name of staying non-opposed parties. "You stay out of our business, I'll stay out of yours." Following that agreement, The Pacific placed the meddlers they'd vowed to remove from any position of power that would allow them to meddle, back into the top positions in the region, where they immediately proceeded to continue meddling in The Black Hawks.

The dismissal of the above series of events, which is entirely on record in conversations with Ivan, Karenus, and Ale, and the repeated painting of The Black Hawks as the aggressors here, is thus incredibly disappointing, even for an org that does not shy away from conflict. We had no desire for this to end this way - all we wanted was for The Pacific to stay out of our operations. However, at this point, we now have zero trust that this or any related future incarnation of The Pacific will respect our region. The Pacific had their chance to avoid this war, three chances, actually, but after three strikes you're out, and now The Black Hawks are ready to play some ball.

---

EDIT:

All this is to say, I see it as less about "omg they <played gameplay>!!" and a lot more as that The Pacific has repeatedly treated allied or non-hostile parties with absolutely no respect for their business and sovereignty, and has lost all trust in their ability or willingness to actually fix things when caught. They've used tactics one should use against their worst of Gameplay enemies on regions they were friendly with, for their own advantage - all in direct offense to their own ideology.

The NPO has acted nothing short of like their supposed "userite" boogieman - seeking to exploit the resources of the GCRs, subjugate them to their own Francoist ideology, and otherwise abuse them for the advancement, glory, and empowerment of the NPO. In Pergamon's own words, their goal while while infiltrating Lazarus was to -

Pergamon: But I didn't sign up the NPO for the advancement of Invaderdom, but the Advancement of the Order.
Pergamon: I see it as possibility to get Lazarus back while being considered heroes.

- "get it back" to NPO ownership, "for the Advancement of the Order."

Meanwhile, they've entirely failed to respect the nature of "The Auxiliary" - The Black Hawks had, until repeated attacks by The Pacific forced us to act otherwise, "no ambition to influence, hold any position within, or rule over" The NPO. And yet, they treated us effectively as enemies, time and time again, despite our repeated peaceful attempts to avoid conflict with them.

They cannot be trusted as neutral parties; they cannot be trusted as allies. They cannot be trusted to clean up their messes, or keep their solemn diplomatic promises. They cannot even be trusted to follow the word of their own fanatic ideology, rather than just use it as an excuse to direct a cult at whatever they selfishly desire. The NPO cannot be trusted, as an organization.

As thus: NPO delenda est.