Imperial Statement from the New Pacific Order

[Pergamon]

The better question here is: Why is the Order being labeled as the entity “threatening” others when that would indicate us being the aggressors in this situation.

We’re not the aggressors in this situation, contrary to apparently popular belief. The reason being? Well, you know, if you all would indulge me for a moment: Think back to... oh, I don’t know... two updates ago?

The Black Hawks took it upon themselves to outright attack a protectorate region of ours, knowing full and well it was under our protection. The Order, holding true to its word, protected the region in question ... yet we’re villified for that?

I think not, your memory ought to serve you all better.

Maybe because TBH is replying to one sided aggression from The Pacific against TBH going back many month? Including espionage and outright military conflict?

High ranking TP members have long waged war quietly against TBH. Diplomacy ultimately failed us. So, we decided to stop eating shit and take this crap out into the open.

Your memory doesn’t include these events, apparently, and I doubt they’re well publicized in The Pacific.

The victimizing of yourself in public is sweet. I like it. Please continue.

[King HEM]

Wow uh, this thread is quite the shitshow.

In the interests of actually understanding what The Pacific's stance is, any chance we'll hear from Emperor Aleisyr? Seems like diplomacy isn't Pergamon's strong suit.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Maybe because TBH is replying to one sided aggression from The Pacific against TBH going back many month? Including espionage and outright military conflict?

High ranking TP members have long waged war quietly against TBH. Diplomacy ultimately failed us. So, we decided to stop eating shit and take this crap out into the open.

Your memory doesn’t include these events, apparently, and I doubt they’re well publicized in The Pacific.

The victimizing of yourself in public is sweet. I like it. Please continue.

Casus belli is not claiming “victimization.” The Pacific provoked this war. Say the on-again, off-again denials from some Emperors and retired Emperors, the often-backtracked claims that such were never sanctioned by the top and were instead committed by rouge subordinates like yourself, are true....by undoing all of the meaningful consequences/actions tied to our diplomacy and promoting those it once declared to be insubordinate and not able to be trusted with command back into positions of high leadership, The Pacific has endorsed their pattern of aggressive behavior against The Black Hawks. This served as cause aplenty for us to act.

TBH may have struck “first” in an open and unashamed manner, with full authorization from the top, but it comes as a result of secret state of war long since begun by The Pacific. If this is what you sought to provoke with your meddling, then congratulations - it worked. And either those above you support it, or they got played themselves. Either way, we’re long since tired of kissing up to TP to gain concessions from unwarranted aggression that only last a few months tops.

[Jar Wattinree]

Wow uh, this thread is quite the shitshow.

In the interests of actually understanding what The Pacific's stance is, any chance we'll hear from Emperor Aleisyr? Seems like diplomacy isn't Pergamon's strong suit.

Chances are zero, nill, nada, noodle.

[Sassmon]

how long until you guys call in BK and the rest of IQ

Close, but they're just bringing in the PW grand poster, Greatkitteh.


FOOOOOR STEEEEEVVVEVEEEEEE!

[Solorni]

The better question here is: Why is the Order being labeled as the entity “threatening” others when that would indicate us being the aggressors in this situation.

We’re not the aggressors in this situation, contrary to apparently popular belief.

Well since the Pacific Government professed a desire to continue friendly relations with St. Abbaddon and denied that it had territorial designs there, I guess they are not the aggressors.

[Cormactopia Prime]

If Osiris, a raider region, would like to coordinate operations with an enemy of the New Pacific Order then that is completely up to their own discretion as they are a sovereign region entitled to their own ambitions. However, that joint operation would be combatted by the Pacific. Not because Osiris or The North Pacific are taking part in it, but because the Black Hawks are executing it.

It is not Osiris, nor the North Pacific that we are “threatening”. If either region wishes to continue working with the Black Hawks (which on a personal account I fully expect nothing less than) then the Order will engage them. Albeit inadvertently we’d engage them, but we’d do it with the intent to disrupt a Black Hawks operation.

That is to my understanding what our Consul has been attempting to communicate.

So instead of just going after TBH's military operations, the NPO intends to treat Osiris as an enemy if it invites TBH on its operations. Noted.

In the interests of actually understanding what The Pacific's stance is, any chance we'll hear from Emperor Aleisyr? Seems like diplomacy isn't Pergamon's strong suit.

No one hears from Aleisyr. Pergamon runs the show over there at this point.

[Pergamon]

Wow uh, this thread is quite the shitshow.

In the interests of actually understanding what The Pacific's stance is, any chance we'll hear from Emperor Aleisyr? Seems like diplomacy isn't Pergamon's strong suit.

Tell me, why should I bother what you think about the Pacific? Just that you remember, you attacked it.

We are disappointed to see, that the IJCC, which especially includes Europeia has joined this unprovoked against the New Pacific Order. Weeks prior to this, the Pacific received a formal notification from the Europeian Minister of Foreign Affairs that the IJCC and by extension, Europeia, would not attack the New Pacific Order. An agreement has been made, that the Pacific would not disrupt IJCC operations and the IJCC would not attack the New Pacific Order.
Source

It is evident to us now, that Europeia sadly is a region that can no longer be trusted in any capacity. It lacks all of its former credibility as respected diplomatic powerhouse and uses deceit to gain military advantages over an unprepared opponent..

So much about diplomacy. Thank you.

The victimizing of yourself in public is sweet. I like it. Please continue.

Casus belli is not claiming “victimization.” The Pacific provoked this war. Say the on-again, off-again denials from some Emperors and retired Emperors, the often-backtracked claims that such were never sanctioned by the top and were instead committed by rouge subordinates like yourself, are true....by undoing all of the meaningful consequences/actions tied to our diplomacy and promoting those it once declared to be insubordinate and not able to be trusted with command back into positions of high leadership, The Pacific has endorsed their pattern of aggressive behavior against The Black Hawks. This served as cause aplenty for us to act.

TBH may have struck “first” in an open and unashamed manner, with full authorization from the top, but it comes as a result of secret state of war long since begun by The Pacific. If this is what you sought to provoke with your meddling, then congratulations - it worked. And either those above you support it, or they got played themselves. Either way, we’re long since tired of kissing up to TP to gain concessions from unwarranted aggression that only last a few months tops.

You know, you are the aggressor of this conflict. You are positively unable in this situation, to point yourself out as the party that has been attacked without any provocation. The only people buying that poor story are the people that benefit from joining you on your crusade against the New Pacific Order.

[Cormactopia Prime]

It is evident to us now, that Europeia sadly is a region that can no longer be trusted in any capacity. It lacks all of its former credibility as respected diplomatic powerhouse and uses deceit to gain military advantages over an unprepared opponent..

This sounds vaguely familiar. There was a regime once that promised by treaty to defend Lazarus, but instead when Lazarus was unprepared, that region used the deception of being a friend and ally to gain a military advantage over an unprepared Lazarus and perpetrate a coup against it.

Which regime was that? It's on the tip of my tongue.

Oh, that's right. It was the New Pacific Order.

Which is to say, you talking about Europeia being untrustworthy and losing its credibility is very much a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

[Pergamon]

It is evident to us now, that Europeia sadly is a region that can no longer be trusted in any capacity. It lacks all of its former credibility as respected diplomatic powerhouse and uses deceit to gain military advantages over an unprepared opponent..

This sounds vaguely familiar. There was a regime once that promised by treaty to defend Lazarus, but instead when Lazarus was unprepared, that region used the deception of being a friend and ally to gain a military advantage over an unprepared Lazarus and perpetrate a coup against it.

Which regime was that? It's on the tip of my tongue.

Oh, that's right. It was the New Pacific Order.

Which is to say, you talking about Europeia being untrustworthy and losing its credibility is very much a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

You are talking about an event that happened 3 years ago. I am talking about an event that happened just now. I think your point is a bit stretched.

[Killer Kitty]

You know, you are the aggressor of this conflict. You are positively unable in this situation, to point yourself out as the party that has been attacked without any provocation. The only people buying that poor story are the people that benefit from joining you on your crusade against the New Pacific Order.

NPO has been openly hostile to raiders for quite sometime. You guys tend to have a rather unveiled disgust towards most, if not all, raider groups and have more than once hopped on opportunities to betray their trust on and off the battlefield. I vaguely recall an operation where NPO stabbed TBH and others in the back in a joint operation and that was several years ago.

I don't think any raider group is going to choose NPO over TBH, not with NPO's history of betrayal. NPO might as well be a defender group at this point.

[Cormactopia Prime]

This sounds vaguely familiar. There was a regime once that promised by treaty to defend Lazarus, but instead when Lazarus was unprepared, that region used the deception of being a friend and ally to gain a military advantage over an unprepared Lazarus and perpetrate a coup against it.

Which regime was that? It's on the tip of my tongue.

Oh, that's right. It was the New Pacific Order.

Which is to say, you talking about Europeia being untrustworthy and losing its credibility is very much a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

You are talking about an event that happened 3 years ago. I am talking about an event that happened just now. I think your point is a bit stretched.

The coup of Lazarus wasn't an isolated incident. It was part of a pattern of untrustworthy behavior on the NPO's part, dating back to its very beginnings.

[Pergamon]

You know, you are the aggressor of this conflict. You are positively unable in this situation, to point yourself out as the party that has been attacked without any provocation. The only people buying that poor story are the people that benefit from joining you on your crusade against the New Pacific Order.

NPO has been openly hostile to raiders for quite sometime. You guys tend to have a rather unveiled disgust towards most, if not all, raider groups and have more than one hopped on opportunities to betray their trust on and off the battlefield. I vaguely recall an operation where NPO stabbed TBH and others in the back in a joint operation and that was several years ago.

I don't think any raider group is going to choose NPO over TBH, not with NPO's history of betrayal. NPO might as well be a defender group at this point.

We are not openly hostile to raiders. As a matter of fact we usually would not care what they do, since our worlds technically do not collide. Some factions however made it be this way, by openly raising flag against the New Pacific Order and in the case of your org: By annexing a GCR. We declared war upon TBH, not raiderdom. And other raider orgs may continue their business uninterrupted by us, we will exclusively be out to ruin the operations of TBH. Nothing else.

You are talking about an event that happened 3 years ago. I am talking about an event that happened just now. I think your point is a bit stretched.

The coup of Lazarus wasn't an isolated incident. It was part of a pattern of untrustworthy behavior on the NPO's part, dating back to its very beginnings.

Our allies and friends might disagree with this statement of yours and this is what matters to the Pacific.
Your argument doesn't change anything about what Europeia just did.

[Aclion]

NPO might as well be a defender group at this point.

They're too fond of couping other regions to ever go defender.

[Armaros]

The NPO is basically saying "invite TBH to a raid and you're an enemy". So regions who were neutral during the attack such as Osiris can't work with TBH if they don't want to be considered an enemy by the NPO.
1 what have you been drinking? I seriously doubt you cant take on the entire raider community on your own. Even with help of defenders I doubt it, seeing how successful they have been with liberating ops lately.
2 this means you're directly threatening Osiris with military action if they work with TBH, which they inevitably will, since TBH is the most successful raider org around, if I understand this correctly. "Any op that involves TBH" can be reworded to "80% of all big raider ops are a target". So yes, you're threatening Osiris.

[Pergamon]

The NPO is basically saying "invite TBH to a raid and you're an enemy". So regions who were neutral during the attack such as Osiris can't work with TBH if they don't want to be considered an enemy by the NPO.
1 what have you been drinking? I seriously doubt you cant take on the entire raider community on your own. Even with help of defenders I doubt it, seeing how successful they have been with liberating ops lately.
2 this means you're directly threatening Osiris with military action if they work with TBH, which they inevitably will, since TBH is the most successful raider org around, if I understand this correctly. "Any op that involves TBH" can be reworded to "80% of all big raider ops are a target". So yes, you're threatening Osiris.

I believe that Osiris is a sovereign region and not part of one giant united block under the lordship of Ever Wandering Souls, thank you.

[Cormactopia Prime]

The NPO is basically saying "invite TBH to a raid and you're an enemy". So regions who were neutral during the attack such as Osiris can't work with TBH if they don't want to be considered an enemy by the NPO.
1 what have you been drinking? I seriously doubt you cant take on the entire raider community on your own. Even with help of defenders I doubt it, seeing how successful they have been with liberating ops lately.
2 this means you're directly threatening Osiris with military action if they work with TBH, which they inevitably will, since TBH is the most successful raider org around, if I understand this correctly. "Any op that involves TBH" can be reworded to "80% of all big raider ops are a target". So yes, you're threatening Osiris.

I believe that Osiris is a sovereign region and not part of one giant united block under the lordship of Ever Wandering Souls, thank you.

Osiris is a sovereign region that isn't under anyone's lordship but the Pharaoh's. That means TBH doesn't dictate what Osiris does, but it equally means the NPO doesn't dictate what Osiris does. The funny thing is only one of those has been trying to dictate what Osiris does, and it's the NPO.

You may also want to check the Pacific's RMB sometime soon.

[Pergamon]

I believe that Osiris is a sovereign region and not part of one giant united block under the lordship of Ever Wandering Souls, thank you.

Osiris is a sovereign region that isn't under anyone's lordship but the Pharaoh's. That means Souls doesn't dictate what Osiris does, but it equally means the NPO doesn't dictate what Osiris does. The funny thing is only one of those has been trying to dictate what Osiris does, and it's the NPO.

You may also want to check the Pacific's RMB sometime soon.

Being at war with a faction means dictating what another region does? Explain.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Osiris is a sovereign region that isn't under anyone's lordship but the Pharaoh's. That means Souls doesn't dictate what Osiris does, but it equally means the NPO doesn't dictate what Osiris does. The funny thing is only one of those has been trying to dictate what Osiris does, and it's the NPO.

You may also want to check the Pacific's RMB sometime soon.

Being at war with a faction means dictating what another region does? Explain.

If you want to be at war with TBH, be at war with TBH. Go after their operations, the operations their region is leading. But when you give regions a public ultimatum that they can't work with TBH on their own operations, or the NPO will also target those operations, you're extending your war to other regions. You're telling regions like Osiris that they must either choose your side or be targeted by your military as if they are also the enemy.

As co-founder of the Osiris Fraternal Order, I have a few suggestions for exactly what the NPO can do with its ultimatums and threats.

[Pergamon]

Being at war with a faction means dictating what another region does? Explain.

If you want to be at war with TBH, be at war with TBH. Go after their operations, the operations their region is leading. But when you give regions a public ultimatum that they can't work with TBH on their own operations, or the NPO will also target those operations, you're extending your war to other regions. You're telling regions like Osiris that they must either choose your side or be targeted by your military as if they are also the enemy.

As co-founder of the Osiris Fraternal Order, I have a few suggestions for exactly what the NPO can do with its ultimatums and threats.

No region will be able to "shield" TBH by claiming the lead of an ops. If TBH is involved, we will arrive. I think we made that point clear. If regions desire to shield The Black Hawks and want to do so openly and formally they are free to publicly declare their support for TBH and declare a state of war between them and the New Pacific Order.

Also: You do not speak on official capacity for Osiris, pulling a title that holds no authority won't change that fact.

[Armaros]

If you want to be at war with TBH, be at war with TBH. Go after their operations, the operations their region is leading. But when you give regions a public ultimatum that they can't work with TBH on their own operations, or the NPO will also target those operations, you're extending your war to other regions. You're telling regions like Osiris that they must either choose your side or be targeted by your military as if they are also the enemy.

As co-founder of the Osiris Fraternal Order, I have a few suggestions for exactly what the NPO can do with its ultimatums and threats.

No region will be able to "shield" TBH by claiming the lead of an ops. If TBH is involved, we will arrive. I think we made that point clear.

Also: You do not speak on official capacity for Osiris, pulling a title that holds no authority won't change that fact.

Yep, because when I'm running an op and I request TBH's help I'm totally trying to shield TBH and not at all doing my own op for my own region.

[Pergamon]

No region will be able to "shield" TBH by claiming the lead of an ops. If TBH is involved, we will arrive. I think we made that point clear.

Also: You do not speak on official capacity for Osiris, pulling a title that holds no authority won't change that fact.

Yep, because when I'm running an op and I request TBH's help I'm totally trying to shield TBH and not at all doing my own op for my own region.

Then you are asking for the aid of an org that is publicly to be known to be at war with the NPO and you are aware of the risk that we will definitely arrive to oppose TBH.

[Cormactopia Prime]

If you want to be at war with TBH, be at war with TBH. Go after their operations, the operations their region is leading. But when you give regions a public ultimatum that they can't work with TBH on their own operations, or the NPO will also target those operations, you're extending your war to other regions. You're telling regions like Osiris that they must either choose your side or be targeted by your military as if they are also the enemy.

As co-founder of the Osiris Fraternal Order, I have a few suggestions for exactly what the NPO can do with its ultimatums and threats.

No region will be able to "shield" TBH by claiming the lead of an ops. If TBH is involved, we will arrive. I think we made that point clear.

Also: You do not speak on official capacity for Osiris, pulling a title that holds no authority won't change that fact.

Yes, you did make that point clear. You made very clear that if Osiris works with TBH on military operations, you will attack Osiris' military forces.

I'm well aware that I don't speak in an official capacity for Osiris, and I never said I did.

[Pergamon]

No region will be able to "shield" TBH by claiming the lead of an ops. If TBH is involved, we will arrive. I think we made that point clear.

Also: You do not speak on official capacity for Osiris, pulling a title that holds no authority won't change that fact.

Yes, you did make that point clear. You made very clear that if Osiris works with TBH on military operations, you will attack Osiris' military forces.

I'm well aware that I don't speak in an official capacity for Osiris, and I never said I did.

Yes, this is the logical consequence of what I tried to tell over and over again? If TBH is involved, we will arrive to oppose it.
Just to clarify: Of course we would seek dialogue with the non-TBH faction first. But in the end of the day, any single operation of TBH will be opposed.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Yes, you did make that point clear. You made very clear that if Osiris works with TBH on military operations, you will attack Osiris' military forces.

I'm well aware that I don't speak in an official capacity for Osiris, and I never said I did.

Yes, this is the logical consequence of what I tried to tell over and over again? If TBH is involved, we will arrive to oppose it.

And if TBH isn't involved, there won't be enough pilers, and your friends the Grey Wardens will arrive to oppose it.

Tell me again how you're not actually declaring war against all raiders. You're putting them in a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation.