St Abbaddon

[RiderSyl]

Any defender who is supporting the NPO in this should really be questioning their priorities.

And we should all take advice about priorities from the man who changes sides on a game of spin the bottle? Get off your soapbox cormac.

Are you dodging the implications of what Cormac said with "hurr durr cormac switches sides" because you don't want to have an honest conversation?
I think the answer is yes.

Also, I have no dog in this race. Just looks like two buzzards fighting over a corpse.

[The Kramer]

Do you all sense great vulnerability? I am a man-child crying out for love. An innocent orphan in the post-modern world. Ultimately, I'm simply a loathsome, offensive brute. Yet you all can’t look away. I transcends time and space. But it's not my fault. I’ve got the Kavorka. The lure of the animal. I’m dangerous.

[Samuel Colt]

Do you all sense great vulnerability? I am a man-child crying out for love. An innocent orphan in the post-modern world. Ultimately, I'm simply a loathsome, offensive brute. Yet you all can’t look away. I transcends time and space. But it's not my fault. I’ve got the Kavorka. The lure of the animal. I’m dangerous.

I have a solution.

[The Kramer]

Do you all sense great vulnerability? I am a man-child crying out for love. An innocent orphan in the post-modern world. Ultimately, I'm simply a loathsome, offensive brute. Yet you all can’t look away. I transcends time and space. But it's not my fault. I’ve got the Kavorka. The lure of the animal. I’m dangerous.

I have a solution.

I do as well. Endorse me for a better tomorrow. I promise I can be master of my domain.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

So who's involved in terms of regions/orgs on both sides?

[Samuel Colt]

I have a solution.

I do as well. Endorse me for a better tomorrow. I promise I can be master of my domain.

You speak many truths good sir.

[King Bradley]

For what it’s worth, while Amestris will sit on the sidelines unless specifically invited to provide assistance, we do support Topid’s faction in this affair and wish them the best.

[Unibot III]

So who's involved in terms of regions/orgs on both sides?

Looks like NPO+SPSF+EPSA vs. ICJJ+TBH+The Ragerian Imperium.

To me the goal should be to ensure that Topid, not "the Kramer" becomes the lead. If the Kramer becomes the lead, they could fuck over Topid just to make a fool out of everyone. If Topid becomes lead, NPO can be removed and the region can have a future without whatever protection racket they were coerced into accepting.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Topid backs TBH in the lead. He can’t hold it without raiding resources, and we have the experience on point in an active operation. He has been promised a fully endorsed RO slot to prepare for when the delegacy is eventually passed to him. I doubt we’d even have the influence to stab him if we wanted to.

[The Kramer]

To me the goal should be to ensure that Topid, not "the Kramer" becomes the lead. If the Kramer becomes the lead, they could fuck over Topid just to make a fool out of everyone. If Topid becomes lead, NPO can be removed and the region can have a future without whatever protection racket they were coerced into accepting.

But I'm like a Junior Mint. And who's gonna turn down a Junior Mint? It's chocolate, it's peppermint—it's delicious. How about this: I'll make a regional event where everyone goes to a pizzeria and makes their own pie? Or we can make a cute St. Abbaddon coffee table book about coffee tables. Vote for Kramerica Industries for a sainter tomorrow.

[Vulturret]

So who's involved in terms of regions/orgs on both sides?

Looks like NPO+SPSF+EPSA vs. ICJJ+TBH+The Ragerian Imperium.

Aye, TRI is happy to support Topid and the Black Hawks with this operation.

[Persia-Kebabistan]

To me the goal should be to ensure that Topid, not "the Kramer" becomes the lead. If the Kramer becomes the lead, they could fuck over Topid just to make a fool out of everyone. If Topid becomes lead, NPO can be removed and the region can have a future without whatever protection racket they were coerced into accepting.

But I'm like a Junior Mint. And who's gonna turn down a Junior Mint? It's chocolate, it's peppermint—it's delicious. How about this: I'll make a regional event where everyone goes to a pizzeria and makes their own pie? Or we can make a cute St. Abbaddon coffee table book about coffee tables. Vote for Kramerica Industries for a sainter tomorrow.

Yay, a fellow Seinfeld fan!

I am neutral in this, but, Seinfeld...

[Drop Your Pants]

Are you dodging the implications of what Cormac said with "hurr durr cormac switches sides" because you don't want to have an honest conversation?
I think the answer is yes.

I take offence at the hurr durr comment and i'd kindly ask you not to repeat it please. What you're implying with it isn't appreciated.

As for honest conversation? I'm game if Cormac wants to take it to TG, I don't do posturing in GP if I can help it.

[Devi]

It's not as if the NPO having the favour of various defender-leaning organisations is much of a surprise, given their numerous attempts to build relations.
Lest we forget, Consul Pergamon himself had a stint as a member of The Grey Wardens, and conveniently changes around the reasoning for that nearly every time he's prompted.

[Altmoras]

The help that Topid is getting from TBH and pals will likely come at an equal or greater price to the help that Kitsco got from the NPO. To me it doesn't seem like there's any good outcome for the natives here.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

The help that Topid is getting from TBH and pals will likely come at an equal or greater price to the help that Kitsco got from the NPO. To me it doesn't seem like there's any good outcome for the natives here.

We’ve pledged to not eject st Abby natives including Kitsco, and will hand off the region to Topid once our objectives are complete, without further interference in their affairs/a trophy relationship.

[RiderSyl]

Are you dodging the implications of what Cormac said with "hurr durr cormac switches sides" because you don't want to have an honest conversation?
I think the answer is yes.

I take offence at the hurr durr comment and i'd kindly ask you not to repeat it please. What you're implying with it isn't appreciated.

I was clearly using that phrase to imply that what you were saying was stupid, nothing more. I'm do my best not to repeat that phrase in your presence, DYP.

[Devi]

The help that Topid is getting from TBH and pals will likely come at an equal or greater price to the help that Kitsco got from the NPO. To me it doesn't seem like there's any good outcome for the natives here.

Even if that were the case, surely the group that's perfectly fine with letting the delegate build embassies with an obviously fascist region isn't in the right here

[Southern Bellz]

Bash the fash

[Unibot III]

It's not as if the NPO having the favour of various defender-leaning organisations is much of a surprise, given their numerous attempts to build relations.

The extent to which the South Pacific's foreign policy here is compromised is frustrating. It's 'short-term gain, long-term pain' realism.

They should have never have gotten themselves into the situation where they had to put their fingers in their ears and accept the coercion of St Abbaddon as some sort of reasonable payoff when they did. Topid has had to rely on invaders and imperialists to recover St Abbaddon and the South Pacific has bandwagoned with an aggressive, authoritarian GCR (NPO) for the same identical reason: the absence of a defender military superpower that can go toe to toe with the New Pacific Order.

[Solorni]

The help that Topid is getting from TBH and pals will likely come at an equal or greater price to the help that Kitsco got from the NPO. To me it doesn't seem like there's any good outcome for the natives here.

Curious in case one wants to become a defender one day; what other situations is it appropriate for defenders to not support those it believes are natives and to actively work against them?

As well, in case I ever wanted to become an imperialist and take over User Created Regions against their will... would this mean that defenders would also support me or at the very least not help the natives out?

[Alkasia]

Of course I support the native sovereignty of St Abbaddon and the freedom of the region from NPO puppetry through Topid's installation as delegate.

That being said,

We’ve pledged to not eject st Abby natives including Kitsco, and will hand off the region to Topid once our objectives are complete, without further interference in their affairs/a trophy relationship.

What exactly are TBH's objectives in this affair? What has Topid agreed to in exchange for a handover of the region and no natives banned?

Sure, I doubt you'll tell me, but I feel like this is an important bit of information that's not being divulged.

[Cormactopia Prime]

What exactly are TBH's objectives in this affair?

Beating the NPO and being able to boast about it. It's as simple as that. We've just lucked out that thoroughly beating them means reinstalling Topid as Delegate, and an end to the NPO's coercive protectorate arrangement. It's not altruism on TBH's part, but it's as close as you can get from raiders.

Look, it's not an ideal situation. But the decimation of defenderdom by "grey" defending, which doesn't appeal to anyone except edgy gameplay elitists -- a tiny minority of the playerbase -- has caused this situation in which desperate natives like Topid have to turn to drastic measures like this. Heck, even Kitsco's agreement to the protectorate arrangement with the NPO was probably an act of desperation caused by the absence of defenders willing and able to protect St Abbaddon from the NPO and others. This is an odd situation, but in the past traditional defenders have been willing to work with raiders to liberate a region if that's what it takes to get the region liberated. Traditionally, defenders put native interests ahead of qualms and grudges with raiders. Is TBH being altruistic here? Of course not. But their motives here happen to align with native interests. It happens very rarely, but we should be glad it happened here, because the natives of St Abbaddon deserve to be liberated from NPO coercion. Meanwhile, traditional defenderdom needs to be rebuilt.

[Topid]

Of course I support the native sovereignty of St Abbaddon and the freedom of the region from NPO puppetry through Topid's installation as delegate.

I knew you felt this way, and was hopeful you could see past "an enemy getting a win" to see "all natives getting a win" because that's - at least to me - what defenders do.

It is disappointing, but I do see why endorsing TBH is a hard pill to swallow. I have a good nose for these things, and TBH will stick to their word with me. I got to choose which embassies go. I got to choose who (other than NPO pilers) get banned - NO ONE. I have been given all long-term decision making. They just want the win.

It comes with no continuing price, because it comes with no continuing benefit. TBH is not sticking their neck out for me in three months. This is a one time thing to get me on my feet and then they are gone.

I would love to have a special chat with TITO privately about the situation.

[New Rogernomics]

I take offence at the hurr durr comment and i'd kindly ask you not to repeat it please. What you're implying with it isn't appreciated.

I was clearly using that phrase to imply that what you were saying was stupid, nothing more. I'm do my best not to repeat that phrase in your presence, DYP.

DYP is genuinely a good guy, whether right or wrong on an issue. He's hardly the first to make a remark on Cormac's NS history.