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Embassy of Lazarus + News

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
Not a roleplaying forum.

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Consular
Minister
 
Posts: 3026
Founded: Apr 10, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Consular » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:06 am

Altinsane wrote:Haha. God, what a character.

Genuinely laughed haha

Drop Your Pants wrote:
Altmoras wrote:I didn't know Lazarus had a military right now, or will one need to be established for the purpose of this war?

Laz has rarely had a military of its own.

True on more than one level really. We'll see if this is any different
Last edited by Consular on Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Lazarus IR Office
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 6
Founded: Sep 24, 2018
Libertarian Police State

The Lazarene Foreign Update - Dec 2018

Postby Lazarus IR Office » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:59 am

Image


Government

Delegate: Imkiville
Vice Delegate: Treadwellia



Court Justices: Amerion, SheepShape



Ministers

Media and Events: New Rogernomics
Assistant Minister of M&E: Canton Empire
Interregional Relations: Your Imaginary Friend
Assistant Minister of IR: Lazarene Ryccia
Recruitment and Outreach: TempestShadow



Speaker: McChimp
Deputy Speaker: TempestShadow


Lazarus Now

Over the last few months, Lazarus's government and community have continued to become more established. Tolerance of those interested in becoming part of new Lazarus, regardless of past political affiliation, has prompted the growth of a very diverse and interesting community. The views of those here often differ very widely from eachother and lead to many curious discussions, but such conflicts have taught Lazarus the importance of respecting the opinions of others and being open to compromise.

Revelations on the extent of the New Pacific Order's knowledge of and involvement in subversive operations against Lazarus and other regions have dampened this open spirit. We can no longer trust that the NPO does not mean us harm and have joined in the war against them. Lazarus will not tolerate being pulled around like a puppet at the whim of those in foreign regions, and will not sit on the sidelines in this fight.

Imki has just made several government appointments. New Rogeromics, Harmoneia, Killer Kitty and Aflana have been selected for the Council for Regional Security; Roavin for Court Justice; and Kingdom of Naples/joWhatup for Minister of the Lazarene Regional Guard. These appointments still require approval by the Assembly.



Assembly

The Assembly has passed various pieces of legislation recently. One of the most notable, the Lazarene Corporation Theme Act, instituted our new LazCorp theme. Say hello to our corporate overlords, Chief Executive Officer Imkiville and Chief Operating Officer Treadwellia (our favourite Rotundity)!

Another new law of note that has been passed is the Hostile Entities and Persons Act. Intended to increase regional security, it gives Lazarus the power to proscribe persons and organizations it deems to be a threat to its regional security via a two-thirds vote in the Assembly.

The Assembly has also deemed it fit to organize a new Lazarene military force under the Charter of the Lazarene Regional Guard. The Lazarene Regional Guard is officially a neutral entity, unable to align with any ideology, and has a limited range of operation.

Judiciary

After being revealed that he was Curious Observations, a nation active in the immediate prelude to and during the Lazarene Civil War, former Court Justice Roavin has resigned. To quote from his resignation, “My appointment as Court Justice was done without the public knowledge of my alternate identity Curious Observations. Cormac requested on Discord that the region should decide on this appointment again and I think that's a reasonable request."



Media and Events

The Ministry of Media and Events has been keeping Lazarus informed and entertained. The Lazarene Gazette continues to be published regularly, bringing news and insightful opinons on the happenings in Lazarus to the region and the rest of the NSverse. The Ministry has also set up a fun Lazarene Holiday Festival for the region and any friends who wish to participate. It includes ballroom dancing, secret rooms, and a missing Mrs. Tubbius!

NewRogeromics has worked extensively on the off-site forums for the region the last few months, adding bank and roleplay features, as well as incorporating the LazCorp theme into its design.

Interregional Relations

Recently the Ministry of Interregional Relations has been focusing on helping its ambassadors become more experienced in handling foreign affairs. The ambassador team has been very useful in enhancing communication between Lazarus and other regions, but having a team of people with realistic perspectives on how inter-regional relations function and who are willing to share their opinions is invaluable, and something the Ministry is working towards creating.

Imaginary has appointed Ryccia as Assistant Minister of Interregional Relations. Ryccia has been helping the Ministry by writing diplomatic documents and considering ambassador and embassy applications.

Recruitment and Outreach

The Ministry of Recruitment and Outreach has been mainly starting discussions and giving informed advice on World Assembly resolutions lately. TempestShadow also intends to organize a WA program soon to help keep Lazarus secure, as well as look into different ways to engage the gameside community of Lazarus and encourage residents to become more involved in the region.



New Forum Embassies

Balder
Osiris
Caer Sidi
Europeia

Closed Forum Embassies

The Pacific
Last edited by Lazarus IR Office on Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Drop Your Pants
Minister
 
Posts: 3471
Founded: Apr 17, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Drop Your Pants » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:46 am

And I've been refused citizenship. Not overly surprising to be honest :P
Happily oblivious to NS Drama

User avatar
Imkiville
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 21
Founded: Feb 06, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Imkiville » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:18 am

Drop Your Pants wrote:And I've been refused citizenship. Not overly surprising to be honest :P

You're welcome to leave the Pacific and try again if ya wanna be with the cool kids. ;)

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Lazarus IR Office
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 6
Founded: Sep 24, 2018
Libertarian Police State

Postby Lazarus IR Office » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:33 pm

YAY 2019!!!

Thank you to all our embassies for being awesome last year. I look forward to seeing what we can do together in this spankin new '19 rig. =)

Also, to show our appreciation for y'all not couping us in 2018, here are some pictures of like... what I think of when I think about you. Hope you like them!

(unspoilered images so watch it yo)

Image
Balder

Image
The East Pacific

Image
Gay

Image
Hell
on our first date!

Image
The North Pacific

Image
One big Island

Image
Osiris
I kinda drew this really fast and then was thinking "EEE, owls bird things are kinda Altino's thing, but I want to represent like the WHOLE region of Osiris..." So I was like trying to think of something egyptiany that I could make into a ball person but I couldn't really think of anything so you're stuck with this. Sorry!

At the same time tho, I think it kinda fits... like, what makes your region really cool is the community that is made up of really awesome people, not just like the region as a region in itself. idk if that makes sense so im spoilering this and I hope you didn't open it if you are like a logical person or other scariness


Image
The Rejected Realms

Image
The South Pacific

Image
The West Pacific


I hope you all have a great 2019! <3

~Imaginary
Director of Public Relations, Lazarus

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Altinsane
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 158
Founded: Feb 13, 2017
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Altinsane » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:44 pm

Omggg. These are so good. Love :3


Also I'm very serious. *spooky fingers*
Altino Asteorra
Karma Sage
Hasal-Pharaoh of Osiris
Occasional Punstress
Very, very fond of owls
{o,o}
|)__)
-”-”-

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Alvalero
Envoy
 
Posts: 227
Founded: Jun 05, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Alvalero » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:46 pm

Love our one! He looks so happy to have a new axe.
Zander Cerebella
Prince of Aarhus
Minister for Development of Balder

Duke of New Hyperion(Wintreath)
Autarch of New Hyperion

Former Delegate, Vice Delegate & Statsminister of Balder

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Imperium of Josh
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 105
Founded: Nov 25, 2015
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Imperium of Josh » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:49 pm

Lol, loving Gay's XD

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Dalimbar
Envoy
 
Posts: 222
Founded: Jul 19, 2004
Father Knows Best State

Postby Dalimbar » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:51 pm

I fricken love these. TWP's is so spot on. Cheers!
Dalimbar,
Guardian/Speaker of the Hall of Nations of The West Pacific
Delegate / Pharaoh (Ret.) of Osiris
Delegate (Ret.) of The North Pacific
Member of the Ex-Feeder Tyrant Club
Escade -
@Dali how many husbands do you have and why do you take the bestest ones
Dali -
1. Who knows. 2. Because I am a scoundrel.

User avatar
Lord Dominator
Senator
 
Posts: 4334
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:51 am

Adorable
Osiris Vizier of WA AffairsDee Vytherov-SkollvaldrDeputy Forest KeeperLieutenant in The Black HawksWA Minister of Lazarus

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The Holy Principality of Saint Mark
Attaché
 
Posts: 87
Founded: May 20, 2016
Corporate Bordello

Postby The Holy Principality of Saint Mark » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:08 am

Those are wonderful!

I love TWP'S!
Marcarius Halo Rahl
TWP Delegate

Priest of Osiris
Pyo Sage of Karma
Archbishop of Albion

The Holy Principality of Saint Mark

User avatar
Aenglaland
Diplomat
 
Posts: 540
Founded: Dec 01, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Aenglaland » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:11 am

TNP's looks so good :lol:
Come to The North Pacific!
Pineapple on pizza delenda est!
Just call me Loh

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5585
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:59 am

Sorry about the wait on my response, I was spending the afternoon impatiently making baklava. I figure I'll post it here, rather than the NPO Embassy thread because it mostly relates to my criticism of Lazarus.

Aumeltopia wrote:The South Pacific has no issues with the Corporation of Lazarus and holds no grudges against it or its delegate.


I've since been assured that the MoFA was speaking out of turn and mischaracterized TSP's position on Lazarus. TSP does not recognize the 'Corporation of Lazarus.'

Imkiville wrote:2) Again showing your lack of knowledge. There is a challenge system, I can be removed from office if the assembly desires it, they vote on all appointments I propose to then and write the laws which they debate among themselves with very little input from me. New Rogernomics has also pointed this out but I notice how you completely ignore him. There are plenty of Lazarenes from all the various previous incarnations of our government in the region that are happy to work together. The ones that sit outside and cry about the lack of democracy instead of being involved to see what's actually going on are the ones that are upset they've lost their ability to subvert the region to their own end and I have absolutely no apologies to make for that. Defenders, raiders and neutrals, members past and present, are all welcome unless they've done something heinous or are a member of a hostile region.


I never ignored NR, when I spoke to you I said very specifically that Lazarus had no direct challenge system. I never said it didn't have a challenge system. There's a difference. TRR has a direct challenge system, the moment a challenge is made, an election must happen - inevitably prompting everyone and their mother to run, while the incumbent gets cold feet.

There's no requirement that an election happen after the delegate is removed from office. The Vice Delegate (chosen by the Delegate) fills the empty vacancy.

There's also no requirement that any such transition happen, if the challenge vote does not succeed.

All Lazarenes have an interest in not supporting a measure to remove the delegate from office, unless the measure appears certain to pass. If the vote fails, a delegate can make life very difficult for you. Consider two different regions, in TRR, the delegate does not choose who is his or her officers, he or she cannot veto legislation, and he or she cannot choose their successors. In Lazarus, the delegate chooses who to appoint to Cabinet, they can veto legislation and amendments to constitution, they choose their successor, and they can make a indefinite security ban subject to a ludicrous 3/4s override. Rejects can afford to not be on the good side of TRR's delegate if they're a TRRer, whereas Lazarenes must suck up to the Lazarene Delegate if they want to be successful in Lazarus. Good for the Lazarene Delegate, not good for democracy. That's the major constitutional difference between the two political arrangements, the delegate is far more powerful.

1) Its fairly simple actually. It's called diplomacy and being a good delegate. I thought that was meant to be your thing? My personal dislike of certain elements of TSP is not Lazarus' problem as a whole and I'm not trying to make it one. I want them to be able to function as a region and be able to work with whomever they want and need, even after I am no longer delegate. I'm laying the foundations for that by not bringing my personal feelings in to it. I'm not so selfish as to make them pay for my pettiness. Are you suggesting TSP is?

....

3) I have at no point pushed TSP or TRR away. The wolfist regime started that and stubborn refusal to accept that Lazarus is going to do it's own thing and not be some bestest best defender buddy anymore from certain people has continued it. Well, sounds like a them problem to me when all we've done it try and stay positive and rebuild. I'm trying to help the region be what they want to be, not what other regions want. People in Lazarus are mostly happy and working to make the region a better place. You are sitting in your lonely armchair complaining that your agenda isn't being met and trying to justify it with fake facts.
I'd be surprised if anyone listens to a word you say since everytime you mention anything about me or my region its been completely wrong. I can only assume the same for the rest of your asinine essays.


I'm really not sure what "fake facts" you think you're referring to, everything I've said has been factual.

When I read your posts, I do not see a diplomatic personality. But rather, an aggressor who demands sycophancy.

And if you were to read one of my "asinine essays," I would start with the first one. It's on dictatorships. I'm sure you'll find it personally relevant in any event.

Ryccia wrote:And, as a TSPer, I detest when you defend us. It irritates me, it really does. If you really want to do us a favour, shut up already, or maybe even attack us. Having you vaguely associated with us is bad PR. Having you defend us when you should have shut up years ago is an affront to basic decency.


*big wet raspberry noise*

New Rogernomics wrote:Time for me to put my pre-PRL Lazarene cap on. Lazarus never had term limits prior to the PRL.


Lazarus never had any practical need for term limits during the PRL years, because the Chairmen kept departing. That having been said, the PRL did have a term limit imposed about mid 2014, called something vaguely like the Law of the Phoenix - it was three sets of conventions related to term limits and succession, which were ordained by Funkadelia. Problem is, I don't have a copy of that text without the PRL forum.

Pick up a book seriously though on political theory or a sociology dictionary. A system that is a defacto constitutional monarchy, with democratic means to remove said monarch, without consequence or punishment, is not a dictatorship. By the logic that is made here, the UK is a dictatorship, as the monarch is not elected, even though parliament can force the monarch out.


I assure you I read enough political theory books to make an average person vomit pulp. Your comment is riddled with contradictions and misinformation:

1) The Lazarus system is in no way a constitutional monarchy. The UK, as you invoke as an example, allows the Queen to appoint people to Cabinet, controls passports, and gives royal assent - but this is a wholly symbolic process. If the Queen was routinely appointing people, kicking people out, and vetoing legislation, there'd be nothing constitutional about the UK monarchy.

2) A constitutional monarch cannot be removed by the government. The legislature is Her Majesty's Government.

3) If a vote to remove the Lazarene delegate is not successful there is significant opportunity for consequence and punishment. Which is exactly the point.

New Rogernomics wrote:As for The Pacific or NPO, if you are to criticize them, then do it right. That means actually bother to read their own constitution or dispatches. The NPO is not a dictatorship, but an oligarchic meritocracy, with a Senate. The New Pacific Order even make it easy to understand with their dispatches.


If I criticize the NPO, I always do it right. And I have indeed read the NPO's "constitution" and curated and researched more NPO literature than I care to remember.

The NPO is not a meritocracy, it professes meritocracy - there is a difference. Nothing inherently requires merit in the appointment process. The NPO is led by a supreme Emperor, served by a Senate who serves at his pleasure. Characterizing the NPO as an "oligarchy," overlooks that nobody else is on an equal level as the Emperor. If the Emperor wants you gone, you're gone before you can take time for a piss. Senators are often removed and no explanation is needed or necessarily given. It's more Stalin, than Yeltsin.

The only thing I will say also is that the Emperor is not all powerful, per se, because of the external bureaucracy of the NPO beyond the NS NPO. In that way you might try to argue it's not a clear-cut dictatorship, but rather a governorship. But regardless, the Senate sits at the pleasure of the Emperor and the constitution can be unilaterally amended or dissolved by the Emperor.
Last edited by Unibot III on Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

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✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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Pierconium
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1198
Founded: Antiquity
Father Knows Best State

Postby Pierconium » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:02 am

Unibot III wrote:If I criticize the NPO, I always do it right. And I have indeed read the NPO's "constitution" and curated and researched more NPO literature than I care to remember.

The NPO is not a meritocracy, it professes meritocracy - there is a difference. Nothing inherently requires merit in the appointment process. The NPO is led by a supreme Emperor, served by a Senate who serves at his pleasure. Characterizing the NPO as an "oligarchy," overlooks that nobody else is on an equal level as the Emperor. If the Emperor wants you gone, you're gone before you can take time for a piss. Senators are often removed and no explanation is needed or necessarily given. It's more Stalin, than Yeltsin.

The only thing I will say also is that the Emperor is not all powerful, per se, because of the external bureaucracy of the NPO beyond the NS NPO. In that way you might try to argue it's not a clear-cut dictatorship, but rather a governorship. But regardless, the Senate sits at the pleasure of the Emperor and the constitution can be unilaterally amended or dissolved by the Emperor.


Apologies to Lazarus for doing what several did within our Embassy by addressing non-Lazarene issues here.

A meritocracy does not mandate a democratic means of selection and the Emperor having ultimate authority to remove Senators does not preclude meritocratic ideals. It does perhaps mean that the definition of what is meritorious within the context of the Pacific shifts from Emperor to Emperor.

That said, the NS ‘branch’ of the NPO is independent of any supposed ‘external bureaucracy’. This external bureaucracy you address rests solely within the realms of offsite forum management and has zero input in how the government of the NPO in NS operates. Aleisyr selected LoD as his replacement as he deemed him the most meritorious member of the government following the recent missteps. No discussion with external bodies was held and none have ever been held in regards to who was selected to serve as Emperor of the NPO here.

Regardless, I have never stated that the NPO is not dictatorial in nature. It is a meritocratic autocracy, where the Emperor defines the goals of the government and appoints Senators based on merit within that framework.
Consul of the Pacific

Tyrant (Ret.)


Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you; tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you…

NPO - EMPIRE - TRIUMVIRATE - NPD

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Altmoras
Diplomat
 
Posts: 663
Founded: Jan 25, 2012
New York Times Democracy

Postby Altmoras » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:39 am

Unibot III wrote:
Aumeltopia wrote:The South Pacific has no issues with the Corporation of Lazarus and holds no grudges against it or its delegate.

I've since been assured that the MoFA was speaking out of turn and mischaracterized TSP's position on Lazarus. TSP does not recognize the 'Corporation of Lazarus.'


Can't have any issues with something you don't consider to exist.
Warden-Commander of The Order of the Grey Wardens
Proud native of Hell.
Speaker of the Assembly of The Rejected Realms.

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Killer Kitty
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 398
Founded: Oct 08, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Killer Kitty » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:21 am

Unibot III wrote:
Aumeltopia wrote:The South Pacific has no issues with the Corporation of Lazarus and holds no grudges against it or its delegate.

I've since been assured that the MoFA was speaking out of turn and mischaracterized TSP's position on Lazarus. TSP does not recognize the 'Corporation of Lazarus.'


And who exactly assured you of this?

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Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
Posts: 2132
Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:07 am

If the Coalition of the South Pacific doesn't even recognize Lazarus' government, and is going to remain hostile to Lazarus for no particular reason, it doesn't seem there's much reason for Lazarus to care about the actions by The Black Hawks and others against TSP. You reap what you sow.

It's disappointing to see TSP's Minister of Foreign Affairs undermined by Glen-Rhodes, Roavin, and their ilk. Disappointing, but not at all surprising.
Last edited by Cormactopia Prime on Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cormac Skollvaldr
President of the Pacifica Democratic Union

Awards, Honors, and WA Authorships

"We are all misfits living in a world on fire." - Kelly Clarkson

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Killer Kitty
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 398
Founded: Oct 08, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Killer Kitty » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:21 am

It is interesting, though, that TSP continues to maintain an embassy with a region it supposedly does not recognize in any way.

Then again, the "official position" of TSP might not be what Unibot claims it to be and he's just talking out of his ass. Again.

User avatar
Drop Your Pants
Minister
 
Posts: 3471
Founded: Apr 17, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Drop Your Pants » Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:59 am

Nice to see Cormac and Uni making grand decisions for other regions again, brings back the memories.
Happily oblivious to NS Drama

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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5585
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:38 am

Altmoras wrote:
Unibot III wrote:I've since been assured that the MoFA was speaking out of turn and mischaracterized TSP's position on Lazarus. TSP does not recognize the 'Corporation of Lazarus.'


Can't have any issues with something you don't consider to exist.


:clap: This is true, bravo.

Killer Kitty wrote:
Unibot III wrote:I've since been assured that the MoFA was speaking out of turn and mischaracterized TSP's position on Lazarus. TSP does not recognize the 'Corporation of Lazarus.'


And who exactly assured you of this?


Santa Claus.

Pierconium wrote:
Unibot III wrote:If I criticize the NPO, I always do it right. And I have indeed read the NPO's "constitution" and curated and researched more NPO literature than I care to remember.

The NPO is not a meritocracy, it professes meritocracy - there is a difference. Nothing inherently requires merit in the appointment process. The NPO is led by a supreme Emperor, served by a Senate who serves at his pleasure. Characterizing the NPO as an "oligarchy," overlooks that nobody else is on an equal level as the Emperor. If the Emperor wants you gone, you're gone before you can take time for a piss. Senators are often removed and no explanation is needed or necessarily given. It's more Stalin, than Yeltsin.

The only thing I will say also is that the Emperor is not all powerful, per se, because of the external bureaucracy of the NPO beyond the NS NPO. In that way you might try to argue it's not a clear-cut dictatorship, but rather a governorship. But regardless, the Senate sits at the pleasure of the Emperor and the constitution can be unilaterally amended or dissolved by the Emperor.


Apologies to Lazarus for doing what several did within our Embassy by addressing non-Lazarene issues here.

A meritocracy does not mandate a democratic means of selection and the Emperor having ultimate authority to remove Senators does not preclude meritocratic ideals. It does perhaps mean that the definition of what is meritorious within the context of the Pacific shifts from Emperor to Emperor.

That said, the NS ‘branch’ of the NPO is independent of any supposed ‘external bureaucracy’. This external bureaucracy you address rests solely within the realms of offsite forum management and has zero input in how the government of the NPO in NS operates. Aleisyr selected LoD as his replacement as he deemed him the most meritorious member of the government following the recent missteps. No discussion with external bodies was held and none have ever been held in regards to who was selected to serve as Emperor of the NPO here.

Regardless, I have never stated that the NPO is not dictatorial in nature. It is a meritocratic autocracy, where the Emperor defines the goals of the government and appoints Senators based on merit within that framework.


The NS 'branch' of the NPO constantly makes decisions in line with the greater metaverse (or whatever you want to call it) and individuals are deployed to the NS Senate from the greater NPO world with little to no knowledge or experience in NS. Not to mention, the greater NPO verse holds much of the cards, possessing NPO's auxiliary reserves. A smart autocracy always keeps its army happy.

An autocracy is a dictatorship, you're using them as distinct terms to act as a euphemism. They are not distant terms. A dictatorship can be non-autocratic (if it's a junta, with multiple competing authority figures), but an autocracy must be a dictatorship.

I never said that democracy was meritocratic (that's long discussed with pros and cons), I said that there's nothing inherent about the NPO's process that necessitates appointment by meritocracy. The "merit-based appointment" is solely a legal fiction - it's said that's how things operate, without a structure in place to implement it. Potential senatorial candidates are not ranked on a rational scale, they're not chosen by an independent commission, nor are their restrictions to eliminate non-meritorious candidates from consideration (at least none that the Emperor can't brush aside.) The NPO puts no more institutional effort to promote on merit than democracies or for that matter, anyone else.

I understand that the NPO has long identified as a meritocracy, but constantly saying you're a meritocracy and that you believe in meritocracy, and appoint on this basis, does not make these three ideas, facts. Furthermore, you've undermined the value of meritocracy in suggesting here that merit is a subjective concept discernible only by the Emperor, because it is impossible to independently verify if a self-described meritocracy is appointing by merit if (in a very NPO fashion) merit is indeed defined as the basis of an appointment. That is to say, that the sitting Emperor cannot logically appoint a bad senator, because merit is defined by the decision to appoint them.

The NPO's claim to meritocracy is unverifiable and unjustified by the institutional levers in place, it's propaganda used to criticize democracies and bolster the argument for its governing system.

Drop Your Pants wrote:Nice to see Cormac and Uni making grand decisions for other regions again, brings back the memories.


*pushes a toy soldier company with a long croupier stick* :geek:
Last edited by Unibot III on Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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North Prarie
Diplomat
 
Posts: 768
Founded: Nov 04, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby North Prarie » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:43 am

Killer Kitty wrote:It is interesting, though, that TSP continues to maintain an embassy with a region it supposedly does not recognize in any way.

Then again, the "official position" of TSP might not be what Unibot claims it to be and he's just talking out of his ass. Again.

Yep. MoFA ambassador here (though not to Laz)-I don't know where 'we don't recognize Lazarus' came from. We made a point of being happy when Imki took over the Delegacy.
Last edited by North Prarie on Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unibot III
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:55 am

North Prarie wrote:
Killer Kitty wrote:It is interesting, though, that TSP continues to maintain an embassy with a region it supposedly does not recognize in any way.

Then again, the "official position" of TSP might not be what Unibot claims it to be and he's just talking out of his ass. Again.

Yep. MoFA ambassador here (though not to Laz)-I don't know where 'we don't recognize Lazarus' came from. We made a point of being happy when Imki took over the Delegacy.


Expressing satisfaction with the peacekeeping agreement and the end of the Khanate does not necessarily extend recognition and satisfaction to the government that followed. You'll remember that Lazarus' constitutional structure was up for discussion and debate during the convention, there were a number of proposals on the table to return Lazarus to democracy. These proposals were not ultimately adopted.

Here's the relevant section of the original Peacekeeping Agreement, North Prarie:

Section 5: The council will call for a constitutional convention, to be hosted on the new forum and openly visible. Participating members of the convention are approved, denied, or removed by the council. The peacekeeping command is encouraged to issue recommendations for denying applicants to convention membership on grounds of security or OOC impropriety.

Section 6: A draft for a new government, created by the members of the convention, will come into force if and only if a majority of convention members approve and a supermajority of the council approves of that draft. The peacekeeping regions will consider this government the legitimate government of Lazarus.


Essentially, TSP agreed to consider the government, the legitimate government of Lazarus, if the draft for a new government was produced by the constitutional convention.

But the draft was ultimately adopted at Imkh's hand and the work of the constitutional convention was held as "inconclusive."

Consequently, no party of the original peacekeeping agreement has an obligation to recognize the Corporation as the legitimate government. Imki's decision to establish a 'corporation', circumventing the constitutional convention, contradicted the terms of the peacekeeping agreement that the South Pacific agreed to. I don't know if TSP would have supported a peacekeeping agreement if it had given Imki, "creative control" over the form of government that followed.

This is particularly concerning for the foreign policy of all of the participating regions in the peacekeeping agreement, especially with regards to precedent.

Failing to enforce the terms of the peacekeeping agreement in the present, weakens the strength of such agreements in the future. For instance, you can imagine a future scenario where five GCRs are considering a similar peacekeeping agreement to support an interim regime in a similar crisis, if it's uncertain that the other parties to the agreement will uphold the requirement of an open constitutional convention, a minority or even a majority of those regions may not feel confident in the terms of the agreement because they know that those other signatories have in the past betrayed the terms of similar agreements.

This is not an academic point, these kind of scenarios have happened before. In 2011, for instance, Europeia and others supported UDL's stabilization mission in Balder predicated explictly on our promise that an open constitutional convention would be held and free and fair elections would be subsequently held. If I had suspended the constitution convention or implemented my own constitution, the history of Balder would look very different, but I'd have also contradicted an interregional agreement and weakened the value of them.
Last edited by Unibot III on Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:01 am, edited 10 times in total.
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✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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Killer Kitty
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Killer Kitty » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:08 am

Unibot III wrote:
Killer Kitty wrote:
And who exactly assured you of this?


Santa Claus.


Right then.

Then in that case it's a pretty safe assumption that absolutely no one with power in TSP actually told you that, Unibot. You just made up a lie to try and make it appear your words have backing and authority behind them when, in fact, you don't speak on behalf of TSP, you have no idea what you're talking about, and you're entirely powerless in this matter.

Thank you for confirming how irrelevant you are to this discussion, Unibot. You may leave now.

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Unibot III
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:15 am

Killer Kitty wrote:
Unibot III wrote:

Santa Claus.


Right then.

Then in that case it's a pretty safe assumption that absolutely no one with power in TSP actually told you that, Unibot. You just made up a lie to try and make it appear your words have backing and authority behind them when, in fact, you don't speak on behalf of TSP, you have no idea what you're talking about, and you're entirely powerless in this matter.

Thank you for confirming how irrelevant you are to this discussion, Unibot. You may leave now.


I just don't want to rain hellfire on my contacts for their communication with me.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

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✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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Killer Kitty
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Founded: Oct 08, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Killer Kitty » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:20 am

Unibot III wrote:I just don't want to rain hellfire on my contacts for their communication with me.


If you can't back it up, and you can't, then it's as good as gossip, lies, and rumors. Kindly take that elsewhere.

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