The Empire of Mare Nostrum

[Central Centurial]

Thank you for the update.

no u

[Sancta Romana Ecclesia]

Thanks for the nice comments, y'all!

Thank you for the update.

no u

I have no idea what you intended to communicate with that.

[Salvarity]

The Empire of Mare Nostrum invites you to the Feriae Anniversariae!

On these blessed days, we celebrate the foundation of our region, the friends and allies we made along the way, and we look forward to another amazing year.

Join us for a weekend filled with games, trivia, music, and other surprises!

The event starts at noon eastern time on August 9th. More details will come on the day of the festival, but for now take a look at ONE of our major contests! Our Pokemon Showdown League.

In the meantime, please join our festival's Discord server.

[Sancta Romana Ecclesia]

Happy birthday EMN!

I have a good feeling about this festival, it's gonna be . And I'm not only saying this because Salv paid me to.

[Salvarity]

Wait I'm supposed to pay you?

[Salvarity]

While the actual festival is not due for another ~15 hours. Why not take the time to check out the schedule?

[Salvarity]

So, I’m (finally) writing a response to Osiris’s cancellation of the Treaty of Selene with Mare Nostrum. I’m only a few months late, but better late than never.

For those who forgot, the post I am responding to is here

Firstly, a piece by piece response

It has come to the attention of Osiris that The Empire of Mare Nostrum has repeatedly mishandled OOC issues within their region. This includes nearly opening an embassy with another region well known for transphobia and forum destruction and only begrudgingly ceasing this when parties within the region protested extensively.

I would not call NRI well known, but the rest is a fair statement. Instead of admitting fault, I doubled and tripled down in the situation. Those who are interested in how this went down can read here. Also I gotta say, this was directed at me. You guys say it yourself that parties within the region are who got me to shut up. Why is this being pinned on EMN entirely instead of being a call out where I’m mentioned?

Furthermore, a member of the Osiris discord was banned for membership in a well known fascist region; when we learned they were also a citizen in the Empire of Mare Nostrum we reached out to them to inform them with the anticipation that they would take similar action. They took no action and declared that it wasn't their concern what anyone did outside of their region insofar as they behaved inside their region, a view very disheartening to us.

The last part is blatantly untrue, we have repeatedly in the past removed players for behavioral actions done outside of Mare Nostrum. Block (when he was discovered as King Bradley), Attero (for well being Attero), and Cheggimus (for the Candlestick situation with Hartfelden), are a few I could name off the top of my head.

The problem with this person, Berenice, is that this individual had been in BOTH regions for months on perfectly good behavior. No Nazism, no Fascism, not even rude or annoying. We refused to ban someone who did not do anything wrong or behaved improperly. I stand by this decision to this day.

The fact is that CCD has over 500 nations. I agree that they’re fascist and the leadership is deplorable, but they actively and aggressively recruit and style themselves as “RPers”, we know it’s bullshit. But, I refuse to just write off everyone involved as a fascist deplorable. If it doesn’t walk like a duck, doesn’t quack like a duck, it might not be a duck.

Pre-empting a response to remind the reader that Berenice had months of good behavior with EMN and Osiris, I am suggesting nothing about everyone else in CCD and whatever the hell they’re up to now.

Further allegations of failings in OOC moderation were also brought to the Osiran Government's attention which we were able to verify after conversing with people who were involved in EMN’s government at the time and who had knowledge of the situation. Due to the private nature of these occurrences, we are not at liberty to disclose them all.

Now this is some cryptic shit. The fact that EMN is not blacklisted and I am still welcome in circles of GP makes me think this was entirely meant to be cryptic cause it’s complete bullshit.

If EMN admins are incompetent and permitting truly horrible shit, do the right thing and inform the rest of the game’s admins. If I deserve to be blacklisted, then get me blacklisted. Otherwise I am gonna assume this bullshit.

Complete bullshit like the accusation that has been spread by Osiris that EMN is harboring Nazis.

In the above two screenshots, Ark of The West Pacific informed us that TWP was told that EMN was harboring Nazis. In that conversation I denied that claim completely.

In the second, Hartfelden (who were treatied allies of EMN) terminated our embassies making the same claim of harboring Nazis. When I requested proof of that claim, none was given. Noticeably, Hartfelden is a region that consistently used their Gameplay embassy and they didn’t post this announcement on their embassy???

I still await proof that EMN harbored Nazis. Ffs our admin team at the time of the treaty cancellation had only one person in it who could be considered Aryan. I’m self deprecating but definitely not self-hating.

Also, I despise the part about how you spoke with members of our regional government. Wymondham was our Tribunal Prefect, he’s also the FA Vizier signing your treaty cancellation.

Speaking of Wymondham as Tribunal Prefect, the conspiracist in me wants to flesh out a little timeline here.

October 9th, Wym announces he’s leaving EMN at the end of his term because he got a job in Osiris
November 1st, Wym’s term ends. The Berenice issue pops up and all of sudden he is leaving because we’re OOC incompetent.

Wymondham11/01/2019
Fairwell Ladies and gents
Its been a blast
I hereby resign all of my positions in EMN
Although I respect and admire each and every one of you
I cannot condone the refusal of this regions leadership lack of concrete OOC administration policies and remove certain individuals from this region who had done things that most GP communities would find unacceptable
Peace and love yall
Wym

After the first Osiris was rather radio silent for a while. They informed us they wanted to pull the treaty in private and we’re like okay. I was waiting for a statement to respond to and such, none came for a while.

Until November 22nd, the 1st day of UCR con.

The first day of UCR con is when Osiris felt it was necessary to cancel the treaty and tell the world how bad EMN is.

Enough conspiring,

Tl:dr I disagree with several points of reasoning given by Osiris in the treaty cancellation with EMN. I ask why does Osiris not call for EMN to be blacklisted if we truly are bad in so many OOC ways. I request proof of or reasoning for the spreading of an accusation that EMN is harboring Nazis. I believe the timeline of events suggest ulterior motives. Effectively I think this was an attempt at using OOC accusations to further IC politics. Especially when it comes to the accusation of us harboring Nazis.

[Cormactopia Prime]

I ask why does Osiris not call for EMN to be blacklisted if we truly are bad in so many OOC ways.

That's a good question. I suspect the answer is Osiris didn't see the need to put that much effort into having a region that is all but dead thoroughly and completely blacklisted, though I think you'd probably find you're a bit more blacklisted than you realize if you really dug deep and looked into it.

That said, if it makes you feel any better, I do think you should be fully, formally blacklisted.

[Lord Dominator]

The fact is that CCD has over 500 nations.

Man, you picked a poor time to post this bit

[Salvarity]

The fact is that CCD has over 500 nations.

Man, you picked a poor time to post this bit

My timing is truly a work of art.

I ask why does Osiris not call for EMN to be blacklisted if we truly are bad in so many OOC ways.

That's a good question. I suspect the answer is Osiris didn't see the need to put that much effort into having a region that is all but dead thoroughly and completely blacklisted, though I think you'd probably find you're a bit more blacklisted than you realize if you really dug deep and looked into it.

That said, if it makes you feel any better, I do think you should be fully, formally blacklisted.

On what grounds should I be blacklisted? I've played NS for almost a decade and have stayed on the right side of moderation and behavior for the entirety. The only actual misbehavior I have personally done is the issues with NRI, which was handled within hours. Do you have actual grounds for thinking I should be blacklisted or are you gonna prove people like Block right when they NSGP use the blacklist as their personal shitlist.

[Cormactopia Prime]

On what grounds should I be blacklisted? I've played NS for almost a decade and have stayed on the right side of moderation and behavior for the entirety. The only actual misbehavior I have personally done is the issues with NRI, which was handled within hours. Do you have actual grounds for thinking I should be blacklisted or are you gonna prove people like Block right when they NSGP use the blacklist as their personal shitlist.

On the grounds that you have knowingly and willfully harbored blacklisted players or players you knew should be blacklisted. Simple enough.

[Salvarity]

On what grounds should I be blacklisted? I've played NS for almost a decade and have stayed on the right side of moderation and behavior for the entirety. The only actual misbehavior I have personally done is the issues with NRI, which was handled within hours. Do you have actual grounds for thinking I should be blacklisted or are you gonna prove people like Block right when they NSGP use the blacklist as their personal shitlist.

On the grounds that you have knowingly and willfully harbored blacklisted players or players you knew should be blacklisted. Simple enough.

Such as?

Berenice should not be blacklisted, you and Osiris deciding everyone in CCD is irredeemable doesn't make it true. Hell NSGP is lauding a CCD turncoat right now.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Such as?

Berenice should not be blacklisted, you and Osiris deciding everyone in CCD is irredeemable doesn't make it true. Hell NSGP is lauding a CCD turncoat right now.

How about the forum destroyers you harbored? That'd be a good place to start with why you should be blacklisted, the CCD member completely aside.

[Salvarity]

Such as?

Berenice should not be blacklisted, you and Osiris deciding everyone in CCD is irredeemable doesn't make it true. Hell NSGP is lauding a CCD turncoat right now.

How about the forum destroyers you harbored? That'd be a good place to start with why you should be blacklisted, the CCD member completely aside.

They were removed when we cancelled the embassy construction? None were ever even citizens.

[Cormactopia Prime]

They were removed when we cancelled the embassy construction? None were ever even citizens.

Which you only did after coming under intense pressure to do so, rather than when you were first notified by the region that had been subject to their destructive actions. Because you're petty and you didn't mind they'd destroyed off-site property belonging to The LKE.

[Salvarity]

They were removed when we cancelled the embassy construction? None were ever even citizens.

Which you only did after coming under intense pressure to do so, rather than when you were first notified by the region that had been subject to their destructive actions. Because you're petty and you didn't mind they'd destroyed off-site property belonging to The LKE.

Rehashing, I've already admitted that was a situation where I was clearly in the wrong. If that's your entire reason for calling for me to blacklisted, you're proving people like Block right.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Rehashing, I've already admitted that was a situation where I was clearly in the wrong. If that's your entire reason for calling for me to blacklisted, you're proving people like Block right.

The fact you're resorting to using Block and the Whitelisting campaign as your rhetorical device to defend yourself right now really says it all.

[Salvarity]

Rehashing, I've already admitted that was a situation where I was clearly in the wrong. If that's your entire reason for calling for me to blacklisted, you're proving people like Block right.

The fact you're resorting to using Block and the Whitelisting campaign as your rhetorical device to defend yourself right now really says it all.

I don't know what white listing is but you're literally saying I should be blacklisted with baseless reasoning. This is the common criticism of blacklisted players and it is exactly what your are doing.

[Cormactopia Prime]

The fact you're resorting to using Block and the Whitelisting campaign as your rhetorical device to defend yourself right now really says it all.

I don't know what white listing is but you're literally saying I should be blacklisted with baseless reasoning. This is the common criticism of blacklisted players and it is exactly what your are doing.

The reasoning isn't baseless, you just don't like it, which is also a common thing with blacklisted players. When you knowingly and willfully harbor blacklisted players, as you have done, you generally end up blacklisted. This is especially true when you show up practically daring people to blacklist you.

[Salvarity]

I don't know what white listing is but you're literally saying I should be blacklisted with baseless reasoning. This is the common criticism of blacklisted players and it is exactly what your are doing.

The reasoning isn't baseless, you just don't like it, which is also a common thing with blacklisted players. When you knowingly and willfully harbor blacklisted players, as you have done, you generally end up blacklisted. This is especially true when you show up practically daring people to blacklist you.

Well my dare was aimed at the accusations of harboring Nazis. If I did that I deserve to be blacklisted. But since I'm literally a minority, I don't see proof of that coming anytime soon.

I still believe you claim is baseless because this whole harboring lasted a few days max, it was before the statements on the severity of their behavior occurred. I in no way condoned their behavior. I literally folded on the issue within hours and have some since repeatedly admitted to being wrong.

[Your Imaginary Friend]

I don't think the community of EMN should be blacklisted.

Occasional errors in judgement on the part of an admin happen in nearly all regions, and it's important to allow people who have admitted those errors and are looking to be better room to grow.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

A splinter region from the LKE might have had a CCD member in the server for a day or two and they're dead to everyone now? I remember when half the active membership of the LKE was made up of people who had dual citizenship with Nazi Europa and nobody said a damn thing. Pull your head in.

[A Bloodred Moon]

I have no involvement here, but I do have some thoughts here. Blacklisting entire regions because they were slow to cut relations with forum destroyers* and not removing a CCD citizen (presumably someone who didn't know how shitty CCD was and had done no harm to the community) is foolish, in my opinion. If the region poses an OOC threat, then yes, your admin have every reason to say they should be blacklisted. But I don't think this counts as such. It is, of course, up to the regional admin - but calling for blacklisting in this scenario is unwise. It rather cheapens the entire point of blacklisting. These are, of course, merely personal thoughts.

*yes, they should have done that immediately, and Salvarity's rant was awful. I hope he thinks long and hard about IC/OOC stuff regarding Onder.

[Onderkelkia]

A splinter region from the LKE might have had a CCD member in the server for a day or two and they're dead to everyone now? I remember when half the active membership of the LKE was made up of people who had dual citizenship with Nazi Europa and nobody said a damn thing. Pull your head in.

This is a categorical lie. At no point has this or anything like it ever - at any point in time - been the case.

There was one individual (who joined other regions as well as the LKE), who was a member of Nazi Europe unbeknownst to us and who was subsequently banned. That was one individual, not "half the active membership". The LKE has always maintained a strict prohibition on membership of such regions.

As part of the United Imperial Armed Forces, the LKE is one of the regions which captured and destroyed Nazi Europe.

---

Insofar as Mare Nostrum is concerned, I have no significant comments to add beyond the disappointment I previously noted in the LKE's embassy. I hope that others learn from the serious error of opening an embassy with those responsible for the acts of forum destruction. In particular, South Reinkalistan has gained prominence given his membership of CCD and his later departure from their region, but I hope that his previous actions are not overlooked.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

Insofar as Mare Nostrum is concerned, I have no significant comments to add beyond the disappointment I previously noted in the LKE's embassy. I hope that others learn from the serious error of opening an embassy with those responsible for the acts of forum destruction. In particular, South Reinkalistan has gained prominence given his membership of CCD and his later departure from their region, but I hope that his previous actions are not overlooked.

In case you were unaware, St Abbaddon - a region both the Land of Kings and Emperors and Balder has an embassy with - up until very very recently (9 days ago, in fact) was home to Brother Bishop, a known 94 Block puppet since at least the back half of 2019. I'm giving y'all the benefit of the doubt and assuming you're unaware, but if LKE or Balder was aware, why did LKE or Balder do nothing about it?