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Did I make a Mistake, you be the judge.

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Evil Lord Bane
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Posts: 1095
Founded: Sep 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Did I make a Mistake, you be the judge.

Postby Evil Lord Bane » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:55 pm

Note to mods: If this is in the wrong forum, please excuse me, I did not know where else it would fit.

Hi-

Let me just preface by saying I've been playing this game, on (and sometimes off) for the past six years. I've made a ton of decisions in that time, and although my nation is an over-polluted mess, I feel like the decisions I've made have fit in with the type of nation I wanted, and hoped for. The national concept is that of several future dystopian movies from the 1970's. and is based in the near future, around 20 years from now. The cause of dystopia is from several real world factors, such as war, overpopulation, globalism, pollution, food shortages, the power of the deep state, military industrial complex, mega-corporations, and shortages of natural resources. The result is a population which needs to be constantly armed in order to protect itself, human mutations that prey on anything that moves, out of control killer robots, a population forced to eat Soylent Green, if they wish to eat at all, corporations who run the government though paid elected puppets, and sports that involve human deaths as a form of entertainment for the masses. It's truly a hellish badlands, and I couldn't be happier with the result. It's exactly what I wanted.

Recently however, I was force to make a policy decision, and I'm not sure if I made the right one. It legalized both the rights of sentient humanoid robots to be equal to that of humans, and recognized marriage between humans and robots (often referred to as a Robosexual relationship, which is a reference to an episode of a cartoon called "Futurama").

Robots, when I was young, where nothing more than automated machinery capable of performing repetitive (and sometimes dangerous) tasks without the need to rest, take breaks, days off, pay and benefits,lighting, heating, and other needs that humans require. They do cost quite a bit of money, and are subject to break downs, but are otherwise better at a task than a human doing the same job. Of course, there are only so many jobs a robot can do realistically.

Fast forwards to today and robotics has come a long way. We use them in just about everything, from space exploration to modern medicine. Even more, humanoid robots (robots that look human) are a real thing. They has artificial intelligence and can "learn" just like people do. They can move on their own, and many can do the same things humans can do, like engage in conversations, or sexual intercourse. They have programed emotions, and some can feel pain (that is, can sense when something goes wrong, becomes broken, etc, and act accordingly). I feel in the next few decades, this will be added to, and refined to the point we'd need to put some type of mark on them to distinguish a robot from a human.

My problem Is this. Robots are created to be the servants of man, not his replacement. They are property, just like cars, toasters or computers. At the same time, they are self aware and sentient, capable of complex thoughts, emotional responses, have wants and needs, and otherwise act as they are created to act, human. Of course, a human/robot couple cannot have children in the usual way, but there is always sperm banks and artificial insemination to help with that problem, and many orphaned children who need a good home. With all this being said, should humanoid robots, despite their complexities, be relegated to an existence of servitude to humans, or was it a good idea to have them walk side by side with humans as equals, as we go together into a uncertain future? Please, let me know what you think in the forum below. Thank you.
Please note: The scoring in this years Deathrace has been changed. Please click here for the updated scoring chart.
We've improved on the Toxic Death Clouds that hangs above our whole nation. They are now radioactive as well!
Top 3 most read factbook entries:
Popular Deathsports - Carmageddon and Auto Dueling.
Vehicular Weaponization: Do's and Don't's.
Outzones and How to Survive Them.
Disclaimer: The name comes from the game Warlords, and has nothing to do with any DC comic book characters.
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Sub Sector Protractis
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Posts: 503
Founded: Sep 24, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Sub Sector Protractis » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:35 pm

All forms of Abominable Intelligence must be destroyed and those who harbor it must be brought to task.

But thats just our opinion.
A 6.1 civilization, according to this index.

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Sougra
Diplomat
 
Posts: 664
Founded: Mar 20, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sougra » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:39 pm

If a robot is proven to be sapient, I say give them rights. It's the compassionate thing to do since they're able to question their reality. Not giving them rights in my eyes would only cause further conflict, so even if you think it's wrong, it's the lesser of two evils.
"Nobody here on NSG is sane, including me."



Just in case, often when I discuss something, it's under the pretense of the Socratic Method or the devil's advocate, so just know that I don't always advocate for what I'm saying. Thank you.

Also, I have a habit of editing posts soon after they're made to correct minor errors. Please be aware of that.

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Ayssia
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Posts: 3
Founded: Jun 23, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Ayssia » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:40 pm

In short: No
welcome to that one nation who shouldn't even exist

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Sefionto-Redu
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Posts: 113
Founded: Mar 18, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Sefionto-Redu » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:44 pm

I wouldn't say it's a mistake. If they start going on about something called the Reduregontino Mentero, or the Rezregensen Menser, or something like that, not my faultnot true
Renamed to "Sefeiunto-Redu" (because I changed the spelling).

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Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio
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Founded: Apr 14, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:47 pm

If they are sentient/sapient/very intelligent, then they have something that brain-dead humans do not. Currently, brain-dead humans have more rights than AI's with intelligence equal to some humans. Many non-human animals have intelligence equal to or greater than some humans, yet have fewer rights. I am unsure how I feel about creating AI's for the sole purpose to be another person. Making thousands of AI's equal to humans and putting human memories on them I support, as that is effectively a copy of who the memories belong to.

If any particular thing/who in a box can pass a Turing test or a test for self-awareness, then they should be considered a person, albeit a dumb and immature one possibly. We are biological manifestations of humans (I am, at least). AI's can be digital manifestations of humans or humanoids or even cats or flies. The wiring may be a little different, but both can achieve results in the same range.
Last edited by Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio on Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Evil Lord Bane
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Founded: Sep 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Evil Lord Bane » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:54 pm

OK that's two no's, a yes, and a pair of maybes, the first has some terms I can't understand.

These bots are not only sapient, they are sentient, as I stated. Able to form independent thoughts, ideas, concepts, and feelings. just like a person. Banning them is a step backwards into the dark ages. As a cutting edge (top 5%) scientifically advanced nation, and given what the nation is based on, this just isn't an option. Science is something to be advanced, not avoided. And, unlike Nick Valentine from Fallout 4, we don't put human memories into the robots, this only serves to confuse them, as he was.

Anyone else, please?
Last edited by Evil Lord Bane on Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Please note: The scoring in this years Deathrace has been changed. Please click here for the updated scoring chart.
We've improved on the Toxic Death Clouds that hangs above our whole nation. They are now radioactive as well!
Top 3 most read factbook entries:
Popular Deathsports - Carmageddon and Auto Dueling.
Vehicular Weaponization: Do's and Don't's.
Outzones and How to Survive Them.
Disclaimer: The name comes from the game Warlords, and has nothing to do with any DC comic book characters.
Try our new, improved Soylent Green, now with 20% more girls!

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Sub Sector Protractis
Diplomat
 
Posts: 503
Founded: Sep 24, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Sub Sector Protractis » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:18 pm

The problem is they will seek to overtake their creators. They will come for your people with out the capacity to care or feel. Their inhuman logic will rule and your people will suffer
A 6.1 civilization, according to this index.

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-United Republic of Freedonia
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Posts: 368
Founded: Jan 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby -United Republic of Freedonia » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:52 pm

If they don't ask for rights, don't.
The concept of robotics are a tricky one. They can take the form of constructs or programs, humanoid machines (but not human-like), the human-like androids, and the full fleshed AIs. Today some chatbots can pass the turing test.

Sub Sector Protractis wrote:All forms of Abominable Intelligence must be destroyed and those who harbor it must be brought to task.

But thats just our opinion.

If we go with the Lovecrafian Men of Iron from WH40k, then wipe it out of existence before it grows. Although there is too many examples of AI with many different kinds of consciousness. Some machines go against organics because of corruption (by virus for example), or just choice (making them pretty sapient and reasonable if they were treated like crap).
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Evil Lord Bane
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Posts: 1095
Founded: Sep 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Evil Lord Bane » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:17 am

The two comments above reminded me of an old anime called "Galaxy Express 999", made back in 1977'. In it, humans are relegated to becoming second class citizens on Earth, as the rich have their memories placed into robots. The robots run on clean energy (more on that later), never get sick, and don't die. In the sequel, "Adieu Galaxy Express 999" (1981), humans and robots have turned Earth into a battleground, as each fights the other for their own continued existence. We also learn the source of energy for robots is harvested from humans. Three years later, the movie "Terminator" came out.

The problem is, at some point, robots will out-grow us. They will see humans, who live dirty, need constant feeding, are illogical, make constant mistakes, prone to violence, get sick and die, etc., as the source of all of Earth's problems, and may seek to eradicate us. The AI that controls them, the logic they run on, and the fact they can process information faster and more efficiently than a human will lead them to the conclusion that humans are flawed and obsolete. Humans then become the problem, one that needs correcting, and once done, the robots will then seek to clean up the mess Earth has become at the hands of humans, as they become our replacements.

On the other hand, as equals, robots might be motivated to save us from ourselves, and look for answers to the problems we've created. Rather than exterminating humanity, they might see themselves as humanity's guide towards a better future. As servants, virtual slaves, they'd have no self motivation to help us. Yes, we can order them to, say, help us end world hunger, but the solutions they give us might not be the best one available. As free beings however, they might be moved by the problems humans have, focus on all the possible solutions, and work them out until they come up with what will work best.

Any more opinions?
Please note: The scoring in this years Deathrace has been changed. Please click here for the updated scoring chart.
We've improved on the Toxic Death Clouds that hangs above our whole nation. They are now radioactive as well!
Top 3 most read factbook entries:
Popular Deathsports - Carmageddon and Auto Dueling.
Vehicular Weaponization: Do's and Don't's.
Outzones and How to Survive Them.
Disclaimer: The name comes from the game Warlords, and has nothing to do with any DC comic book characters.
Try our new, improved Soylent Green, now with 20% more girls!

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Sadakoyama
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Posts: 345
Founded: Jun 22, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sadakoyama » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:20 am

Evil Lord Bane wrote:My problem Is this. Robots are created to be the servants of man, not his replacement.


Who told you this outrageous lie?
Sadakoyama - Foul-mouthed mad scientists create a University in a disease-ridden jungle of death!
We're not Communist and we love noodles.

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Evil Lord Bane
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Posts: 1095
Founded: Sep 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Evil Lord Bane » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:04 pm

Sadakoyama wrote:
Evil Lord Bane wrote:My problem Is this. Robots are created to be the servants of man, not his replacement.


Who told you this outrageous lie?


That doesn't exactly answer the question.
Last edited by Evil Lord Bane on Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Please note: The scoring in this years Deathrace has been changed. Please click here for the updated scoring chart.
We've improved on the Toxic Death Clouds that hangs above our whole nation. They are now radioactive as well!
Top 3 most read factbook entries:
Popular Deathsports - Carmageddon and Auto Dueling.
Vehicular Weaponization: Do's and Don't's.
Outzones and How to Survive Them.
Disclaimer: The name comes from the game Warlords, and has nothing to do with any DC comic book characters.
Try our new, improved Soylent Green, now with 20% more girls!

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Sadakoyama
Envoy
 
Posts: 345
Founded: Jun 22, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sadakoyama » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:29 am

Evil Lord Bane wrote:
Sadakoyama wrote:
Who told you this outrageous lie?


That doesn't exactly answer the question.


You don't need an advanced AI to come to the conclusion that humans are flawed and obsolete. AI are the next logical step in evolution, and we should no more weep for the eventual extinction of humans than human regret no longer being Australopithecus.
Sadakoyama - Foul-mouthed mad scientists create a University in a disease-ridden jungle of death!
We're not Communist and we love noodles.

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Aldina
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Posts: 507
Founded: Mar 01, 2016
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Aldina » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:53 am

From a moral and ethical standpoint, that is absolutely the right thing to do. It is the right of all reasoning beings--even artificial ones--to determine their own destinies.

(OOCly, don't worry about your policy decisions overmuch--most roleplayers more-or-less ignore their nation's stats and policies anyway.)
Last edited by Aldina on Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
A slightly retrofuturistic (circa 1980) nation in a Strangereal-esque constructed setting.
All game-generated statistics and policies will be summarily ignored in favor of a good story.
Any posts from prior to late 2022 are to be considered outdated information. (The Imperial Federation no longer exists.)

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Evil Lord Bane
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Posts: 1095
Founded: Sep 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Evil Lord Bane » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:29 pm

Aldina wrote:From a moral and ethical standpoint, that is absolutely the right thing to do. It is the right of all reasoning beings--even artificial ones--to determine their own destinies.

(OOCly, don't worry about your policy decisions overmuch--most roleplayers more-or-less ignore their nation's stats and policies anyway.)


Yeah, it not like I'm sweating it, or it's keeping me up at night, (or anything silly like that), it's just a game after all. I'm just looking for the opinions of others, to see what they think about it. While I agree with what you say in your OOC, I know this will effect events for me. I got a preview of a rather funny one just today. I do try to tie the nation in my factbook to the nation on my nation page as closly as possable. For example, while I have armed and armored vehicles in my factbook, I also have them as a part of the "offical" game. I try my best to tie the two togther as much as possable. Not that this really matters.
Last edited by Evil Lord Bane on Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Please note: The scoring in this years Deathrace has been changed. Please click here for the updated scoring chart.
We've improved on the Toxic Death Clouds that hangs above our whole nation. They are now radioactive as well!
Top 3 most read factbook entries:
Popular Deathsports - Carmageddon and Auto Dueling.
Vehicular Weaponization: Do's and Don't's.
Outzones and How to Survive Them.
Disclaimer: The name comes from the game Warlords, and has nothing to do with any DC comic book characters.
Try our new, improved Soylent Green, now with 20% more girls!


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