Balder, Europeia, The LKE to Launch UIAF 4.0

[RiderSyl]

Cormac, this is too obvious. Cause a diplomatic crisis between Euro and her allies in a way that's more subtle than this if you want it to seriously work. Same goes for trying to get the NPO to be offended/concerned with this.

I'm actually offended that you think this is just controversy mongering rather than genuine concern for Osiris, which shows how little you know about either me or Osiris, so don't go criticizing Glen-Rhodes for not knowing what he's talking about in regard to Osiris. Clearly you don't either.

Sorry if I actually offended you there.

IMO, your "genuine concerns" are more of a threat to Osiris' health and prosperity than this inter-regional alliance will ever be, so I was honestly hoping you were just controversy mongering.

[North Prarie]

Seems like the new Deepest House presidency didn't really change anything for foreign relations ;-;

>>strong new treaty strengthening ties with two other regions, and declaring a strong new stance against spreading francoism

>>"didn't really change anything"

I meant foreign policy, not FA preformance overall. Sorry.

[Glen-Rhodes]

TSP: ???
TNP: ???
NPO: ???
TEP: ???
Osiris: not an enemy

Glad we’re getting some answers on who former President HEM considers enemies of the IJCC. Maybe the new Europeia’s President will have given their region’s new aggressive military alliance some actual thought?

[Syberis]

TSP: ???
TNP: ???
NPO: ???
TEP: ???
Osiris: not an enemy

Glad we’re getting some answers on who former President HEM considers enemies of the IJCC. Maybe the new Europeia’s President will have given their region’s new aggressive military alliance some actual thought?

I'm going to preface this by saying this opinion is my own, and not at all representative or discussed with any other member of the government of Osiris. However.

During discussion, did Euro in particular at any point inform Osiris that this was in discussion? There's a potential legality issue if this treaty was made as a self-defense pact and that was not the case.

Also, Osiris isn't an enemy for now, because they can't verify that they don't consider other Osiran allies enemies of the IJCC.

[Syberis]

I'm actually offended that you think this is just controversy mongering rather than genuine concern for Osiris, which shows how little you know about either me or Osiris, so don't go criticizing Glen-Rhodes for not knowing what he's talking about in regard to Osiris. Clearly you don't either.

Sorry if I actually offended you there.

IMO, your "genuine concerns" are more of a threat to Osiris' health and prosperity than this inter-regional alliance will ever be, so I was honestly hoping you were just controversy mongering.

Considering how long you've been out of Osiris and how out of touch you've been in regards to Osiris and its policy lately, I would very much prefer you not speak as if you know what's a threat to Osiris' health and prosperity.

[Onderkelkia]

TSP: ???
TNP: ???
NPO: ???
TEP: ???
Osiris: not an enemy

I cannot speak for Europeia, but it is absurd in the extreme, and frankly nothing more than silly mischief-making, to suggest that they could possibly consider either The North Pacific or The East Pacific as enemies, considering that there are extant alliances in effect between Europeia and those regions. Some in The East Pacific mimicked Francoist rhetoric for a period, but, as has been pointed out, this was a joke and has been walked back in recent times. Why would we be concerned about it? Similarly, it is a massive stretch to group The North Pacific with The Pacific and The South Pacific in its behaviour. As far as I can see, The North Pacific is tolerant of a wide range of diplomatic relationships and has great respect for UCR and GCR alliances, much like Balder.

From Balder's perspective, we have no formal state of war with any region. There are vocal factions within The South Pacific and, sadly, The Pacific which have made their hostile intentions towards Balder widely known. Obviously that will be taken into consideration when deciding matters of policy. It would be very strange if we were prepared to ignore such flagrant threats to our sovereignty and interests from hostile foreign powers. We have been perfectly clear about the situation with The South Pacific over the past year and the situation with The Pacific has sadly evolved since Pergamon's actions against Balder and its allies, beginning with the situation which led Osiris to leave the GCR Sovereignty Accords in July 2017. Hopefully the hostile behaviour of The South Pacific and The Pacific's leadership towards Balder will change, but we will see. Based on some TSP members' recent remarks I would expect not.

I see no plausible reason why this treaty should have any adverse impact on the interests of any allies of the LKE, Balder or Europeia. If anything, it should enhance our offer to other allies, as it means that any region allied with one of our regions can potentially gain access to the combined military resources of the other two regions, as well as providing a larger, more powerful and more coordinated force, with a single point of contact, which can be routinely used to aid partners who are allied with all three regions. Frankly, I would think such an outcome would be an added bonus, if there is any meaningful impact. It is routine for regions to sign new treaties without consulting all existing allies where there is no particular reason why existing allies may have a stake in the matter. I can think of several instances in the last few months where agreements have been signed without allies being consulted in advance.

If any allies do have any genuine concerns they want us to consider, it has already been said that the LKE and Balder would be glad to hear from them through official channels. So far our governments have heard nothing from any region, so I can only assume no actual government has any concerns. If any government does, then by all means please approach our government so we can have a meaningful discussion. No third party will get anywhere through private individuals sniping in Gameplay. In the case of Balder, the correct way to contact us is by approaching the Statsminister or the Minister of Foreign Affairs. Balder conducts diplomacy, but we do not respond to informal pressure applied by individuals with no official standing posing adversarial challenges in the Gameplay forum. Such behaviour will merely alienate us, as it would any self-respecting region, rather than incline to us to listen. It is obvious that some private individuals - centred around the leadership of The South Pacific and their supporters - would prefer to see regions like Balder, the LKE and Europeia submit to the opinions and whims of our critics, as opposed to uniting together to advance and protect our common interests. Unsurprisingly, we are not playing along with that. Balder has a proud record of opposing defender political hegemony. We have no intention of changing now or ever.

[Glen-Rhodes]

Okay, so we’re getting somewhere now.

TSP: Enemy?
TNP: Not an enemy
NPO: Definitely an enemy
TEP: Not an enemy
Osiris: Not an enemy... for now

Let’s add the other sinkers:
TRR: Probably an enemy, they’re defenders
Lazarus: ???

Now, here’s the issue. TSP is allied to the NPO, an enemy. TSP is also allied to TNP and TEP, who aren’t enemies. TEP is also in a trilateral alliance with TSP and TRR.

If anybody thinks the IJCC members aren’t going to wreak havoc on the NSGP alliance structure, they’re willfully blind. Europeia, Balder, and OnderKelkia all have long histories of trying to subvert other regions foreign affairs. TEP and TNP should be on high alert, because they’re both allied to regions the IJCC sees as enemies.

[Carolus Rex Francae]

Okay, so we’re getting somewhere now.

TSP: Enemy?
TNP: Not an enemy
NPO: Definitely an enemy
TEP: Not an enemy
Osiris: Not an enemy... for now

Let’s add the other sinkers:
TRR: Probably an enemy, they’re defenders
Lazarus: ???

Now, here’s the issue. TSP is allied to the NPO, an enemy. TSP is also allied to TNP and TEP, who aren’t enemies. TEP is also in a trilateral alliance with TSP and TRR.

If anybody thinks the IJCC members aren’t going to wreak havoc on the NSGP alliance structure, they’re willfully blind. Europeia, Balder, and OnderKelkia all have long histories of trying to subvert other regions foreign affairs. TEP and TNP should be on high alert, because they’re both allied to regions the IJCC sees as enemies.

You're one to speak of subversion through foreign affairs, of course. You could write a joint dissertation on it with Unibot.

[RiderSyl]

Sorry if I actually offended you there.

IMO, your "genuine concerns" are more of a threat to Osiris' health and prosperity than this inter-regional alliance will ever be, so I was honestly hoping you were just controversy mongering.

Considering how long you've been out of Osiris and how out of touch you've been in regards to Osiris and its policy lately, I would very much prefer you not speak as if you know what's a threat to Osiris' health and prosperity.

Despite how much I want to write an Onderwall to kill this cute "Sylvia doesn't know Osiris" narrative, I'll leave it alone this time, Syberis, out of IC respect for you.

[Onderkelkia]

Okay, so we’re getting somewhere now.

TSP: Enemy?
TNP: Not an enemy
NPO: Definitely an enemy
TEP: Not an enemy
Osiris: Not an enemy... for now

Let’s add the other sinkers:
TRR: Probably an enemy, they’re defenders
Lazarus: ???

Now, here’s the issue. TSP is allied to the NPO, an enemy. TSP is also allied to TNP and TEP, who aren’t enemies. TEP is also in a trilateral alliance with TSP and TRR.

If anybody thinks the IJCC members aren’t going to wreak havoc on the NSGP alliance structure, they’re willfully blind. Europeia, Balder, and OnderKelkia all have long histories of trying to subvert other regions foreign affairs. TEP and TNP should be on high alert, because they’re both allied to regions the IJCC sees as enemies.

The IJCC itself doesn't see anything. Much like the UIAF before it, it is purely a military command structure designed to enact the will of its signatory regions more effectively. Whether or not IJCC existed or not, the same foreign policy views would still be held by Balder, the LKE and Europeia, with peculiarities and differences according to the region concerned. Nothing in the slightest has changed about any of these regions' fundamental perspectives.

It is merely a description of reality to observe that (1) there are long-standing tensions between Balder and The South Pacific and (2) tensions are emerging between Balder and The Pacific. I don't think anyone has ever doubted that the LKE and Europeia have tended to share Balder's view of those matters.

This has nothing to do with the IJCC and everything to do with long-term trends in geopolitics.

Of course the existence of conflict creates problems for regions who are not participants in them. Yet it is not simply open to Balder or the LKE to declare an end to a conflict which is ultimately rooted in defender aggression, in no small part driven by your own actions. Balder has always acted with respect for other regions' perspectives. You historically used to accuse TNI of trying to force other regions into adopting its foreign policy by TNI's rejection of alliances with regions allied with the UDL or FRA member-regions; a policy which TNI was always open about and which rested on declared states of war between TNI and the UDL and the FRA. It is therefore particularly ironic that you are now framing an argument against Balder, Europeia and the LKE around the incompatibility of alliance networks also involving TSP or The Pacific. Ultimately, to the extent there is an incompatibility, it is a result of defender politicians like you who cannot tolerate the concept of independence and who will always abuse such ties to undermine regions like Europeia and Balder.

The root cause of these conflicts lies in the actions of the regions concerned and, in particular, the individuals within them - in Balder's view, defender subversives such as yourself and Pergamon. The creation of the IJCC does absolutely nothing to change that picture; it merely adds an instrument which the LKE, Europeia and Balder can deploy, when in agreement, according to our discretion in precisely the same way as we could deploy our regional militaries.

[Tim-Opolis]

Considering how long you've been out of Osiris and how out of touch you've been in regards to Osiris and its policy lately, I would very much prefer you not speak as if you know what's a threat to Osiris' health and prosperity.

Despite how much I want to write an Onderwall to kill this cute "Sylvia doesn't know Osiris" narrative, I'll leave it alone this time, Syberis, out of IC respect for you.

This reads more like a cop-out to me. Let's see this OnderWall. It'll be preferable to your current tactic of acting like a wise sage until enough people call you out and you backing down till your next "wise sage moment". I've seenvery little from your posting lately to imply anything except you being rather out of touch with the reality of GP.

Okay, so we’re getting somewhere now.

TSP: Enemy?
TNP: Not an enemy
NPO: Definitely an enemy
TEP: Not an enemy
Osiris: Not an enemy... for now

Let’s add the other sinkers:
TRR: Probably an enemy, they’re defenders
Lazarus: ???

Now, here’s the issue. TSP is allied to the NPO, an enemy. TSP is also allied to TNP and TEP, who aren’t enemies. TEP is also in a trilateral alliance with TSP and TRR.

If anybody thinks the IJCC members aren’t going to wreak havoc on the NSGP alliance structure, they’re willfully blind. Europeia, Balder, and OnderKelkia all have long histories of trying to subvert other regions foreign affairs. TEP and TNP should be on high alert, because they’re both allied to regions the IJCC sees as enemies.

You're one to speak of subversion through foreign affairs, of course. You could write a joint dissertation on it with Unibot.

Well, hello there person hiding either hiding behind a puppet nation or too new to the game to speak on the Glen/Unibot topic with much authority if any. Since Glen has so much experience in the field as you say, then he obviously knows what the signs of it are and how it all goes down. After all, they say it takes one to know one, so you might be lending his points even more validity boyo

[Carolus Rex Francae]

Well, hello there person hiding either hiding behind a puppet nation or too new to the game to speak on the Glen/Unibot topic with much authority if any. Since Glen has so much experience in the field as you say, then he obviously knows what the signs of it are and how it all goes down. After all, they say it takes one to know one, so you might be lending his points even more validity boyo

I had hoped you'd remember my puppets when you saw them, Tim, but I'm at fault for that. This is Vapid.

Despite my statement's double edge, I'd argue the IJCC's hardly as prolific at taking personal vendettas into the FA arena as Unibot or Glen Rhodes. That seems to be a theme with moralist armchairs. Do the members of the IJCC protect their interests? Yeah, because that's what foreign affairs is for. That's not sinister. What is sinister is hijacking a region's foreign affairs for personal wants. No matter how you deny it in GR's case, anyone who's dealt with him outside of your sphere has made him a household name for corruption. Regardless of your disagreements with Onderkelkia, Rach, and NES, hardly the same can be said for any of them.

[RiderSyl]

Despite how much I want to write an Onderwall to kill this cute "Sylvia doesn't know Osiris" narrative, I'll leave it alone this time, Syberis, out of IC respect for you.

This reads more like a cop-out to me. Let's see this OnderWall. It'll be preferable to your current tactic of acting like a wise sage until enough people call you out and you backing down till your next "wise sage moment". I've seenvery little from your posting lately to imply anything except you being rather out of touch with the reality of GP.

Definitely no Onderwall now that I got to have a civil and productive conversation on all this with someone from Osiris this morning.

On the subject of my response reading more like a cop-out, your idea about what my "current tactic" is, and how you interpret my posting lately; I'm not insecure enough to feel the need to prove myself to you or anyone else on the NSGP forum. Think what you will, Tim. I'll survive just fine.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

If anybody thinks the IJCC members aren’t going to wreak havoc on the NSGP alliance structure, they’re willfully blind.

About damn time, military and political GP has been increasingly boring for months, years. It’s no fun when everyone is locked in peace and “friendship.” No pressure to deal and treat and wheedle without conflict at the gates. Less big power struggles in elections over which stance/side to take. Make military GP great again! Make Mall a GCR delegate again!

#officiallythemostsubversivethingivesaid
#Ibroughtbackmyoldedgyflagforthis

[Tim-Opolis]

Well, hello there person hiding either hiding behind a puppet nation or too new to the game to speak on the Glen/Unibot topic with much authority if any. Since Glen has so much experience in the field as you say, then he obviously knows what the signs of it are and how it all goes down. After all, they say it takes one to know one, so you might be lending his points even more validity boyo

I had hoped you'd remember my puppets when you saw them, Tim, but I'm at fault for that. This is Vapid.

Despite my statement's double edge, I'd argue the IJCC's hardly as prolific at taking personal vendettas into the FA arena as Unibot or Glen Rhodes. That seems to be a theme with moralist armchairs. Do the members of the IJCC protect their interests? Yeah, because that's what foreign affairs is for. That's not sinister. What is sinister is hijacking a region's foreign affairs for personal wants. No matter how you deny it in GR's case, anyone who's dealt with him outside of your sphere has made him a household name for corruption. Regardless of your disagreements with Onderkelkia, Rach, and NES, hardly the same can be said for any of them.

Ah, howdy Vapid! Too many puppets out and about these days to keep track of, will remember this one now though!

Also, I dunno, I'd argue Onderkelkia's personal manufactured vendetta against the FRA basically takes the cake in the Top 10 Anime Vendettas on NS. While I'll by no means call Glen innocent, and have criticized him in the past, I think it's hilariously laughable to claim that Rach, NES, and Onderkelkia haven't perpetuated similar levels of personal-interest driven maneuvering.

[Carolus Rex Francae]

Ah, howdy Vapid! Too many puppets out and about these days to keep track of, will remember this one now though!

Also, I dunno, I'd argue Onderkelkia's personal manufactured vendetta against the FRA basically takes the cake in the Top 10 Anime Vendettas on NS. While I'll by no means call Glen innocent, and have criticized him in the past, I think it's hilariously laughable to claim that Rach, NES, and Onderkelkia haven't perpetuated similar levels of personal-interest driven maneuvering.

That's fair, and I'm not familiar with the circumstances surrounding the emergence of that FRA situation. I suppose I'll have to admit I don't know enough about that matter to argue. I'll certainly work to learn more about it, then get back to you.

[Lord Dominator]

If anybody thinks the IJCC members aren’t going to wreak havoc on the NSGP alliance structure, they’re willfully blind.

About damn time, military and political GP has been increasingly boring for months, years. It’s no fun when everyone is locked in peace and “friendship.” No pressure to deal and treat and wheedle without conflict at the gates. Less big power struggles in elections over which stance/side to take. Make military GP great again! Make Mall a GCR delegate again!

#officiallythemostsubversivethingivesaid
#Ibroughtbackmyoldedgyflagforthis

^^^^^

[Roavin]

#officiallythemostsubversivethingivesaid

"The longer he stays connected to your org in nothing but name while acting fully as a warden down to their dirtiest tricks, the harder it is for me to justify the already-strained relationship with the south pacific defence force I'm trying to build"

"On the forgiving end, it seems like you were being used as well
One might hope that a member lying to their own general in order to assist an often opposing org would be grounds for some sort of action."

"but you've got to consider that for me, that's the same exact thing I told my bosses before this happened, and now I've also got to fight past TGW bragging in GP that SPDF helped them sabatouge an operation TBH was on. You understand my predicament?"

[Kurnugia]

#officiallythemostsubversivethingivesaid

"The longer he stays connected to your org in nothing but name while acting fully as a warden down to their dirtiest tricks, the harder it is for me to justify the already-strained relationship with the south pacific defence force I'm trying to build"

"On the forgiving end, it seems like you were being used as well
One might hope that a member lying to their own general in order to assist an often opposing org would be grounds for some sort of action."

"but you've got to consider that for me, that's the same exact thing I told my bosses before this happened, and now I've also got to fight past TGW bragging in GP that SPDF helped them sabatouge an operation TBH was on. You understand my predicament?"

whose quotes are these?

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

#officiallythemostsubversivethingivesaid

"The longer he stays connected to your org in nothing but name while acting fully as a warden down to their dirtiest tricks, the harder it is for me to justify the already-strained relationship with the south pacific defence force I'm trying to build"

"On the forgiving end, it seems like you were being used as well
One might hope that a member lying to their own general in order to assist an often opposing org would be grounds for some sort of action."

"but you've got to consider that for me, that's the same exact thing I told my bosses before this happened, and now I've also got to fight past TGW bragging in GP that SPDF helped them sabatouge an operation TBH was on. You understand my predicament?"

Shocking revelation: out of context quotes from ages ago still generally convey that that pure raiders hesitate to build new relationships with an org they've been finding difficult to trust, a little close for comfort with their sworn enemies?

I'm sure you have spicier quotes of mine to pull out of context. Something that actually shows at least my disdain for some certain GCR governments has be a bit better than quotes from a discussion about potential military cooperation or lack thereof. Got any of me doing something actually somewhat subversive, like trying to infiltrate one or swing a vote in it? You can do better than this.

whose quotes are these?

Sounds like a discussion I had with Imki ages ago, when she was leading SPSF and Roavin was just a potential successor. There was some outreach both ways about maybe working with raiders a bit more, and then we got turned off by an incident where we felt misled and that we could not rely on SPSF. Some of it was a bit strong, perhaps, but we judge relationships largely on whether they'll be a reliable net positive to our raiding capabilities, and this was not looking that way. Would have been about the era where TGW got kicked out of our sever for a mixture of spying and unacceptably intense recruitment efforts from us, which added to tension/distrust.

[The Church of Satan]

And so Onder made it perfectly obvious that the IJCC, in addition to opposing Francoism, also opposes any region that dares exercise the very same sovereignty they stand for to call themselves defender.

sigh

It's R/D 2013 all over again. Surrender your time travel technology to me immediately!

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

No but really roavin if you're going to make random, off topic, ad hominem attack with quotes from two years ago, you really ought to include the part of the conversation where

...Otherwise it might be blatantly easy to mock, eh?

[Benevolent Thomas]

Sounds like a discussion I had with Imki ages ago, when she was leading SPSF and Roavin was just a potential successor. There was some outreach both ways about maybe working with raiders a bit more, and then we got turned off by an incident where we felt misled and that we could not rely on SPSF. Some of it was a bit strong, perhaps, but we judge relationships largely on whether they'll be a reliable net positive to our raiding capabilities, and this was not looking that way. Would have been about the era where TGW got kicked out of our sever for a mixture of spying and unacceptably intense recruitment efforts from us, which added to tension/distrust.

Are we still crying about this? Intelligence gathering operations have been a part of GP since the Farkers first took to this game. The larger scandal is that so many "independent" regions' militaries signed off to follow TBH blindly into any region you chose. You just happened to make the mistake of targeting my home region.

I defended my region from destruction that day and I refuse to concede the point that I somehow acted in bad faith. It was TBH that acted poorly in sending both Europeia and TNP into a region that they had an established relationship and history with. And SHAME on those regions for so willfully signing away their sovereignty just so they can betray a region that admired them.

TSP at least had the decency of not blackballing myself and the Wardens for stopping that raid and trying to move the goalposts of what defined fair play. If you really want to track down what set TSP on a defender-friendly track, you need look no further than what happened immediately following the attempted invasion of European Union.

You now complain that GP has gotten too pedestrian... I can start subverting your ranks again, if you wish?

I 'd be weary of TBH if I were a signatory of this new treaty. Not because I just threatened to continue spying on them, but because they truly wish to control the invader world. You may not consider yourself invaders, but TBH sees anyone willing to occupy regions as a tool to be used and a source of recruitment.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Of course the existence of conflict creates problems for regions who are not participants in them. Yet it is not simply open to Balder or the LKE to declare an end to a conflict which is ultimately rooted in defender aggression, in no small part driven by your own actions. Balder has always acted with respect for other regions' perspectives. You historically used to accuse TNI of trying to force other regions into adopting its foreign policy by TNI's rejection of alliances with regions allied with the UDL or FRA member-regions; a policy which TNI was always open about and which rested on declared states of war between TNI and the UDL and the FRA. It is therefore particularly ironic that you are now framing an argument against Balder, Europeia and the LKE around the incompatibility of alliance networks also involving TSP or The Pacific. Ultimately, to the extent there is an incompatibility, it is a result of defender politicians like you who cannot tolerate the concept of independence and who will always abuse such ties to undermine regions like Europeia and Balder.

Are you saying that alliances with either the Pacific or the South Pacific will be met with a similar response as The New Inquisition's reaction to TSP's alliances with Lazarus and the Rejected Realms? In other words, do these three regions now intend to tell their Feeder and Sinker allies that they cannot enter into alliances with TP and TSP, as TNI once told them they could not enter into alliances with Lazarus and TRR, without running the risk of one or more of these three regions terminating their alliance and becoming as hostile as TNI and the rest of your sphere became toward TSP?

I have a crystal clear memory of the UIAF member regions trying to dictate to Osiris the boundaries of our own foreign policy. I remember when termination of TNI's treaty with TSP was used to pressure Osiris away from developing closer relations with TRR, right after Osiris had ratified a non-aggression pact with TRR that North East Somerset and other Indeperialists invaded our legislature to rail against. I remember when the UIAF used sudden new treaties with The Black Riders to dissuade Osiris from engaging in hostilities with TBR, because Osiris saw early what other regions eventually came to see, which was that TBR was a blight on raiderdom and not of any benefit. In short, I remember when the UIAF used its joint military ties and the alliances its three member regions had with Osiris to restrain our independence and undermine our sovereignty. It's not something I would ever wish to see happen to Osiris again. I would much rather Osiris just be a straight up enemy of the IJCC despite short-term diplomatic costs, as all proudly sovereign Feeders and Sinkers should be, than pretend to be its ally when in reality Osiris will be treated as the IJCC's vassal state, as was the case with Osiris and the UIAF. Never again, I hope.

As a resident of both Lazarus and Osiris, two regions many times afflicted with Indeperialist subversion, I hope to see Feeders and Sinkers band together to oppose the IJCC as they should have opposed the UIAF, and I hope for the IJCC's swift and decisive demise for daring to threaten our regions.

[Onderkelkia]

Of course the existence of conflict creates problems for regions who are not participants in them. Yet it is not simply open to Balder or the LKE to declare an end to a conflict which is ultimately rooted in defender aggression, in no small part driven by your own actions. Balder has always acted with respect for other regions' perspectives. You historically used to accuse TNI of trying to force other regions into adopting its foreign policy by TNI's rejection of alliances with regions allied with the UDL or FRA member-regions; a policy which TNI was always open about and which rested on declared states of war between TNI and the UDL and the FRA. It is therefore particularly ironic that you are now framing an argument against Balder, Europeia and the LKE around the incompatibility of alliance networks also involving TSP or The Pacific. Ultimately, to the extent there is an incompatibility, it is a result of defender politicians like you who cannot tolerate the concept of independence and who will always abuse such ties to undermine regions like Europeia and Balder.

Are you saying that alliances with either the Pacific or the South Pacific will be met with a similar response as The New Inquisition's reaction to TSP's alliances with Lazarus and the Rejected Realms?

No, and nothing in the section you quoted remotely suggests that is the case. Quite the opposite - it emphasises that Balder has always respected a diversity of perspectives among allies and, that to the extent that neutral regions are asked to make a choice, it is one forced on them by defender politicians like Glen-Rhodes. Indeed, that is what Glen-Rhodes was attempting to do with the very post to which I was replying by suggesting the alliances were incompatible when we have made no such statement. You apparently have jumped on the same bandwagon in the vain hope of undermining relationships.

Balder has not declared war on The South Pacific or The Pacific. Rather, the defender leadership of TSP and lately subversive elements within the Pacific have manipulated those regions into supporting hostilities against Balder. The conflict which exists as a result of TSP's unreasonable and hostile behaviour is distinct from a formal war. As such, a different approach is appropriate to the one that TNI and the LKE rightly adopted after declaring war on the FRA.