Feederites & Userites

[Cormactopia Prime]

Hey, look at the NPO. Couped TP and they've been around for over a decade. Maybe Feederites are the best at couping.

I thought it was more like 14-15 years ago now?

That would be over a decade.

[Malphe]

Hey, look at the NPO. Couped TP and they've been around for over a decade. Maybe Feederites are the best at couping.

I thought it was more like 14-15 years ago now?

I couldn't be bothered to remember how old it actually is, so I just said over a decade. Still works, 15 is over 10.

[Lord Dominator]

I thought it was more like 14-15 years ago now?

That would be over a decade.

I thought it was more like 14-15 years ago now?

That would be over a decade.

Well, yeah but that's still a gap of like 5 years which could give false impressions of the longevity of the NPO

[Pierconium]

Yes, the best at couping.

Well, some of us anyway.

[Solorni]

Yes, the best at couping.

Well, some of us anyway.

You still need to teach me how to coup

[Pierconium]

Yes, the best at couping.

Well, some of us anyway.

You still need to teach me how to coup

I like Balder though.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Yes, the best at couping.

Well, some of us anyway.

You still need to teach me how to coup

I can teach you! The first step is handing your nation over to me. For training purposes, obviously!

[Lord Dominator]

You still need to teach me how to coup

I can teach you! The first step is handing your nation over to me. For training purposes, obviously!

I claimed dibs like on Monday or yesterday though...

[Solorni]

I can teach you! The first step is handing your nation over to me. For training purposes, obviously!

I claimed dibs like on Monday or yesterday though...

You still need to teach me how to coup

I can teach you! The first step is handing your nation over to me. For training purposes, obviously!

Wouldn't Durk be best? I think he has more ejections than both of you combined... times something high

[Pierconium]

I claimed dibs like on Monday or yesterday though...

I can teach you! The first step is handing your nation over to me. For training purposes, obviously!

Wouldn't Durk be best? I think he has more ejections than both of you combined... times something high

He learned from the best.

[Roavin]

To me the odd thing about TSP using the terms as if they were Francoist and maligning userites for their influence in the GCRs is that Francoism clearly states in no uncertain terms that it is impossible to get rid of the userites influence through democracy. I do find aspects of Francoism appealing, but clearly you can't be a gcr democracy or support gcr democracy if you are dedicated to Francoism.

So it's not just that members of TSP are part of ucrs but also that they support democracy. The way Balder obtained an unelected delegacy via the democratic system is impossible according to Francoism. Which is all a large part why Balder likes to adopt the best parts of all systems. As Deng Xiaoping said; it doesn't matter if a cat is white or black as long as it catches mice.

Well, as defined in PFT, Francoism isn't necessarily anti-democratic, though it's easiest implemented in a non-democratic fashion (as most things are - one of those points in the list of autocracy vs democracy pros and cons). I could probably spend several paragraphs showing how TSP's system conforms, at least in spirit, to the PFT stuff for the most part despite PFT having been written with a completely different kind of governance in mind, and I could probably do the same for Balder if I spent some time studying your laws.

But really, that doesn't matter. I also find those aspects of Francoism you mentioned appealing. Probably most other South Pacificans do as well. And so even if we don't hard-core conform to PFT, we can still use the simple and commonly known terminology given by PFT. Again - it's propaganda (in a way), sure, but it's not sophistry.

[Solorni]

To me the odd thing about TSP using the terms as if they were Francoist and maligning userites for their influence in the GCRs is that Francoism clearly states in no uncertain terms that it is impossible to get rid of the userites influence through democracy. I do find aspects of Francoism appealing, but clearly you can't be a gcr democracy or support gcr democracy if you are dedicated to Francoism.

So it's not just that members of TSP are part of ucrs but also that they support democracy. The way Balder obtained an unelected delegacy via the democratic system is impossible according to Francoism. Which is all a large part why Balder likes to adopt the best parts of all systems. As Deng Xiaoping said; it doesn't matter if a cat is white or black as long as it catches mice.

Well, as defined in PFT, Francoism isn't necessarily anti-democratic, though it's easiest implemented in a non-democratic fashion (as most things are - one of those points in the list of autocracy vs democracy pros and cons). I could probably spend several paragraphs showing how TSP's system conforms, at least in spirit, to the PFT stuff for the most part despite PFT having been written with a completely different kind of governance in mind.

PFT: "Due to the nature of the NationStates world, a Francoist revolution can never be reached by popular public mandate alone, due to the firm grip the Userites have on the Pacific through political manipulations and double agents."

Francoism is more than just adding a line to your signature

[Roavin]

PFT: "Due to the nature of the NationStates world, a Francoist revolution can never be reached by popular public mandate alone, due to the firm grip the Userites have on the Pacific through political manipulations and double agents."

".... revolution can never be reached...". In the section called Revolution. It's talking about getting there, not being there.

Francoism is more than just adding a line to your signature

Maybe you should read my whole post instead of just the first paragraph

[Lord Dominator]

I claimed dibs like on Monday or yesterday though...

I can teach you! The first step is handing your nation over to me. For training purposes, obviously!

Wouldn't Durk be best? I think he has more ejections than both of you combined... times something high

I blame defenders for my low ejection count, not trying to liberate Westphalia to give me stuff to bonk

[Solorni]

Wouldn't Durk be best? I think he has more ejections than both of you combined... times something high

I blame defenders for my low ejection count, not trying to liberate Westphalia to give me stuff to bonk

I'm not certain but Durk has purged thousands of nations in his two coups of TNP and being given a nation in the TSP coup. He had it listed somewhere but I'm fairly certain it's between 4,000 to 8,000 nations.

[Pergamon]

I blame defenders for my low ejection count, not trying to liberate Westphalia to give me stuff to bonk

I'm not certain but Durk has purged thousands of nations in his two coups of TNP and being given a nation in the TSP coup. He had it listed somewhere but I'm fairly certain it's between 4,000 to 8,000 nations.

I am getting close.

[Kain_The_Dragoon]

I'm not certain but Durk has purged thousands of nations in his two coups of TNP and being given a nation in the TSP coup. He had it listed somewhere but I'm fairly certain it's between 4,000 to 8,000 nations.

I am getting close.

You're such a dork lol

[Solorni]

Perhaps this will stir durk out of semi retirement...

[Auphelia]

I keep seeing people putting quotes in their signatures such as “Proud Feederite from the South Pacific”, almost as if they need to convince themselves and others of their own status and loyalties. I guess for me it's like saying I'm more loyal to my country than my region. So like I consider myself and feel more strongly aligned with Britain than Europe or more Canada than North America. But is that weird in this day and age? Do you guys consider yourselves more aligned with your region? Or am I just all alone...

HAIL THE SOUTH PACIFIC! HAIL ERINOR IN HIS GLORY!!! HAIL THE LOCAL COUNCIL!!! HAIL!!! HAIL!!!

I love my region and would never leave, no matter how much infighting/loving murder keeps happening!

[Vespertania]

HAIL THE SOUTH PACIFIC! HAIL ERINOR IN HIS GLORY!!! HAIL THE LOCAL COUNCIL!!! HAIL!!! HAIL!!!

I hope the color of my hail is blue.

[Pierconium]

I blame defenders for my low ejection count, not trying to liberate Westphalia to give me stuff to bonk

I'm not certain but Durk has purged thousands of nations in his two coups of TNP and being given a nation in the TSP coup. He had it listed somewhere but I'm fairly certain it's between 4,000 to 8,000 nations.

JAL was always a bit of a lightweight.

The current resurgence of Francoism in several corners is somewhat humorous though.

[Consular]

Question for Solorni: Were you loyal first and foremost to Balder while you were president of Europeia?

[Solorni]

Question for Solorni: Were you loyal first and foremost to Balder while you were president of Europeia?

When I was first President of Europeia and joined Balder during my second term in 2011, I eventually made the choice to give up my Europeian career and give Balder something it dearly needed: a person whose first identity was that of Balder. At that time balder had a lot of people but the vast majority considered it as a second or even third home. I had done polling in the region on the issue and I decided to resolve it.

There was also a lesson I was learning in Europeia at the time and have very rudely been taught again recently; which is that no matter what I do for Europeia it will never be appreciated. In 2011, I finished far behind Earth in Europeia for recruiter of the year despite having sent thousands more telegrams. So I am acutely aware of how even when things can be quantified in Europeia that that sort of thing will always happen there. It had happened so many times.

I have fun in Europeia, I've made a lot of friends there, have become a better pkayer there and have given some of my best efforts there. It will always have a special place in my heart even when it teaches me about double standards. But I made my decision a long time ago to make Balder my first home in 2011.

Quite a few of the decisions I have made in how Balder functions particularly from an administrative and cultural side have been to avoid the mistakes of Europeia. Like anything else, we can take what works best while leaving and learning behind what does not work. For example, despite how silly and funny the members of Balder can be at times, we've never driven someone out because of our community is abrasive. That cultural difference about ensuring inclusivity and respect is something I worked have worked hard on. The fact that our admins and mods extremely rarely have to get involved in personal disputes is a point of pride.

Anyway, that's a bit of a digression. I've done more work for Balder than any other region. Despite being in Europeia for longer, I have more forum posts in Balder. In fact, 15 percent of forum posts in Balder are mine and much more than that for topics. As another study recently showed, I have the most rmb posts in Balder. Anyway, the point is that I love Europeia and have put a lot of work there but Balder is my baby. Sometimes too much so because I have sometimes been like a mother bear defending her cub when people criticize it.

Ironically in Europeia, people asked the question you just did but in reverse. Ultimately I can separate my two roles as I always have and it helps that both regions are very close in foreign affairs just like tnp and Europeia is as well. Anyway, I hope you enjoyed this answer because it took me a while to write it on my phone and was opened a few old wounds.

[Valerius the Whisperer]

Question for Solorni: Were you loyal first and foremost to Balder while you were president of Europeia?

Notwithstanding the intent of the question nor the nuances of the career of individual player to which the question was posed, this actually strikes at the heart, I think, of a lot of discussions related to the validity of "conversions" between sides of the userite-feederite paradigm (as well as other, for that matter) and some of the tensions between regionalist and cosmopolitan camps. In the former case, it might be asked whether someone can really become a true feederite after years working in UCRs even if they divest themselves from all such places, let alone if they continue to actively participate in them. Similarly, one might also ask whether someone who occupies leading positions in two separate communities can really be counted on to be loyal to both communities and be able to act in the best interest of both even if said interests are completely contradictory. Obviously, the answer will depend on what perspective a given observer has, like with many other things.

I have little opinion worth sharing on the subject of the former due to a combination of insufficient experience in matters related to GCRs as well as a general lack of interest in them compared to other things in this game, but on the latter I have much more of an opinion, the generalities of which one should easily be able to surmise from my choice to self identify as a regionalist with a preference for a more isolationist stance. I won't bother to get into the latter, since it's not really topical nor interesting or even relevant to anyone other than myself and those who end up doing meaningful business with me, but I will state that I while I have my preferences, other styles of play therein are perfectly valid. There are likely benefits and drawbacks of a more regionalist or more cosmopolitan stance that a person or community must weigh and accept; if a cosmopolitan player is elected to high office in two separate regions and put in a position wherein they are forced to choose, I find it hard to both sympathize with that player for their struggles in that situation (at least within the scope of such; other given nuances of a situation might still elicit sympathy, of course) and the regions in question as well, since the player chose to take on the risk that the two regions would not always be in concord and the regions ultimately made a choice to take the risks associated with empowering someone whose loyalties were not exclusive or even primarily vested in another particular place. It's the same, to me at least, as those who feel left out of the interregional community because they choose to avoid interactions with other regions as much as possible. The players choose how they want to play and the communities choose what kind of playing style(s) they are willing to have within their group, each taking on the risks and rewards associated with such.

[Helseth]

Question for Solorni: Were you loyal first and foremost to Balder while you were president of Europeia?

That's not possible, unless they're already the same thing with different clothes.