The Ragerian Imperium | May Foreign Update

[Vulturret]

Congratulations to The Ragerian Imperium and other participating regions on the successful operation.

Thank you!

Ooh, sounds like a second region destruction coming up for the month, how spoiled we shall get

Is there any factual basis for this statement? I'm not familiar with The Ragerian Imperium's policies, but Balder and The Land of Kings and Emperors aren't known for frequently participating in arbitrarily destructive operations. I don't think they have a firm policy against it, but I think saying it doesn't often happen is a fair assessment. So I would be interested to know if destruction has actually been planned in advance, or if this was just joking speculation.

Destroying the entire region wasn't planned "in advance," per se, as it wasn't planned initially on being held for a very long time. However, now that the native nations have spammed "avian furry fucks" on the RMBs of both the target and TRI repeatedly, spammed my telegrams with similar content (neither of which they were deleted for), and joined the TRI Discord chat and spammed text-to-speech, which gave me a heart attack from the random noises coming out of the computer, I think it really cannot be construed as "arbitrarily" destroying the region. Now I have a bone to pick with them.

EDIT: Fixed a sentence structure that made no sense.

[Scottiesland]

Congratulations to The Ragerian Imperium and other participating regions on the successful operation.

Thank you!

Is there any factual basis for this statement? I'm not familiar with The Ragerian Imperium's policies, but Balder and The Land of Kings and Emperors aren't known for frequently participating in arbitrarily destructive operations. I don't think they have a firm policy against it, but I think saying it doesn't often happen is a fair assessment. So I would be interested to know if destruction has actually been planned in advance, or if this was just joking speculation.

Destroying the entire region wasn't planned "in advance," per se, as it wasn't planned initially on being held for a very long time. However, now that the native nations have spammed "avian furry fucks" on the RMBs of both the target and TRI repeatedly, spammed my telegrams with similar content (neither of which they were deleted for), and joined the TRI Discord chat and spammed text-to-speech, which gave me a heart attack from the random noises coming out of the computer, I think it really cannot be construed as "arbitrarily" destroying the region. Now I have a bone to pick with them.

EDIT: Fixed a sentence structure that made no sense.

Not sure it'd be good to tell people it was planned at all tbf, look what happened when Benja did that.

Now, since the natives did as they did... idk.. seems to warrant it imo. Not sure fendas/moralists will think the same though.

Grats on one year! (Let's see if you can outlive TGO though)

[Frattastan IV]

Worst moral ground ever.

For one, the original raid was completely arbitrary. They weren't attacked because they casually insulted TRI, they insulted you because you attacked them.
Second, enforcing the rules is the purview of the mods. Flaming is wrong. For that you get warnings, not the destruction of your region. If asshole remarks merited you obliteration, TRR would be already gone.

Third, invaders actively look out for whatever cheap excuse they may grab for passwording/refounding.
"The native moved out" (because we turned their region into a crap place to stay in). "The native didn't listen to defender warnings" (for more good reasons that I can type in a single line of text). And naturally "The native flamed us". Which is a very common occurrence when natives don't have enough NS/founderless experience - you get raided, you hardly know or understand it, and you have no good recourse beyond getting angry. I doubt the newbs and less GP-wise members of your region would be any better in the same circumstances.
In any case, getting flamed wasn't an offense to you, it was a blessing: now you can grab a trophy and even claim 'just cause'. You aren't distressed, you're relishing this opportunity.

Now, since the natives did as they did... idk.. seems to warrant it imo. Not sure fendas/moralists will think the same though.

I dunno. In a way, enacting gameplay justice on someone calling you an "avian furry fuck" is pretty hardcore moralism.

[Hartfelden Founder]

Worst moral ground ever.

For one, the original raid was completely arbitrary. They weren't attacked because they casually insulted TRI, they insulted you because you attacked them.
Second, enforcing the rules is the purview of the mods. Flaming is wrong. For that you get warnings, not the destruction of your region. If asshole remarks merited you obliteration, TRR would be already gone.

Third, invaders actively look out for whatever cheap excuse they may grab for passwording/refounding.
"The native moved out" (because we turned their region into a crap place to stay in). "The native didn't listen to defender warnings" (for more good reasons that I can type in a single line of text). And naturally "The native flamed us". Which is a very common occurrence when natives don't have enough NS/founderless experience - you get raided, you hardly know or understand it, and you have no good recourse beyond getting angry. I doubt the newbs and less GP-wise members of your region would be any better in the same circumstances.
In any case, getting flamed wasn't an offense to you, it was a blessing: now you can grab a trophy and even claim 'just cause'. You aren't distressed, you're relishing this opportunity.

Now, since the natives did as they did... idk.. seems to warrant it imo. Not sure fendas/moralists will think the same though.

I dunno. In a way, enacting gameplay justice on someone calling you an "avian furry fuck" is pretty hardcore moralism.

Moralist Raiders ftw?

[Lord Dominator]

Congratulations to The Ragerian Imperium and other participating regions on the successful operation.

Ooh, sounds like a second region destruction coming up for the month, how spoiled we shall get

Is there any factual basis for this statement? I'm not familiar with The Ragerian Imperium's policies, but Balder and The Land of Kings and Emperors aren't known for frequently participating in arbitrarily destructive operations. I don't think they have a firm policy against it, but I think saying it doesn't often happen is a fair assessment. So I would be interested to know if destruction has actually been planned in advance, or if this was just joking speculation.

For me it was supposition based on looking at the influence charts & number of people in the region, I haven't even piled yet

[McChimp]

I didn't realise raiders needed an excuse, cheap or otherwise, for region destruction. They're raiders, that's what raiders do.

[Armaros]

Ah I see. Raiders raiding a region for fun, what a horrible idea, such bullying! But when natives bait, spam and flame the shit out of raiders, it's okay and still a horrible thing to raid!

Ah, moralism at it's finest.

[Reploid Productions]

However, now that the native nations have spammed "avian furry fucks" on the RMBs of both the target and TRI repeatedly, spammed my telegrams with similar content (neither of which they were deleted for)

Getting Help page is thataway, I'll note a first offense has to be quite serious for an insta-DEAT instead of warnings or short-term RMB/TG bans. Also, a quick look at the RMB in question shows that one of my colleagues addressed the issue.

[Malphe]

Ah I see. Raiders raiding a region for fun, what a horrible idea, such bullying! But when natives bait, spam and flame the shit out of raiders, it's okay and still a horrible thing to raid!

Ah, moralism at it's finest.

[Armaros]

Ah I see. Raiders raiding a region for fun, what a horrible idea, such bullying! But when natives bait, spam and flame the shit out of raiders, it's okay and still a horrible thing to raid!

Ah, moralism at it's finest.

This made me smile. I can understand they get pissed. But that doesn't mean you have to go full flamebait-OOC-attack-spam mode. You can voice your disapproval without doing these kinda things.

[Frattastan IV]

I didn't realise raiders needed an excuse, cheap or otherwise, for region destruction. They're raiders, that's what raiders do.

Exactly! I agree with this. However the excuse is sometimes required for PR reasons (discourage potential liberators, prevent or delay the passage of SC Liberations), so all reasons that help with that are welcome.

But when natives bait, spam and flame the shit out of raiders

Yes, this is the type of whining I was referring to.
Now you can raid any region I am in on grounds of 'being condescending' or something equally inane.

snip

Ah, but you see, basically it's already been implied that nothing short of regional destruction would be an adequate redress for this awful awful behaviour. So why even bothering with this ineffective 'GHR' stuff? :^)

This made me smile. I can understand they get pissed. But that doesn't mean you have to go full flamebait-OOC-attack-spam mode. You can voice your disapproval without doing these kinda things.

I don't think the point is whether flaming is right or wrong. Flaming is forbidden by the NS rules and it's wrong.
But the outrage and all the "oh wow, I have been abused. Now I have full rights to lock down your home and kick everyone out of it" is just so hyperbolic and fake.

[Armaros]

I didn't realise raiders needed an excuse, cheap or otherwise, for region destruction. They're raiders, that's what raiders do.

Exactly! I agree with this. However the excuse is sometimes required for PR reasons (discourage potential liberators, prevent or delay the passage of SC Liberations), so all reasons that help with that are welcome.

But when natives bait, spam and flame the shit out of raiders

Yes, this is the type of whining I was referring to.
Now you can raid any region I am in on grounds of 'being condescending' or something equally inane.

snip

Ah, but you see, basically it's already been implied that nothing short of regional destruction would be an adequate redress for this awful awful behaviour. So why even bothering with this ineffective 'GHR' stuff? :^)

Ah, now I am whining about natives OOC attacking people. So according to you, this type of behaviour is okay if it's done to raiders?

[Frattastan IV]

So according to you, this type of behaviour is okay if it's done to raiders?

I already replied in the negative before you made your post.

[Malphe]

Ah, now I am whining about natives OOC attacking people. So according to you, this type of behaviour is okay if it's done to raiders?

Well, it is kinda like stepping on someone's toes and then punching them in the jaw for calling you an idiot, then saying you weren't originally going to punch them in the jaw but they called you an idiot so you were justified in doing it. I don't know either way, I wasn't there and I don't know the full extent of the native's behaviour, but I can definitely see Fratt's point.

[Armaros]

Ah, now I am whining about natives OOC attacking people. So according to you, this type of behaviour is okay if it's done to raiders?

Well, it is kinda like stepping on someone's toes and then punching them in the jaw for calling you an idiot, then saying you weren't originally going to punch them in the jaw but they called you an idiot so you were justified in doing it. I don't know either way, I wasn't there and I don't know the full extent of the native's behaviour, but I can definitely see Fratt's point.

Ehm.. no. It's more like stepping on their toes, them punching you in the stomache and then you punching them knock out for punching you in the stomache.

To Frattastan: how is it "fake"? The natives went fully toxic on TRI. How is TRI "evil" if they retaliate?

[Lord Dominator]

Not really sure assorted flamey insults could be considered on the same level as raiding and then destroying their region.
Now if what you're saying is that destruction wasn't planned until they annoyed you, then that makes sense so long as you avoid the pitfalls in victim blaming when saying that.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Worth noting, if you arguing folks hadn't already noticed it, that the Founder has returned.

[Armaros]

Worth noting, if you arguing folks hadn't already noticed it, that the Founder has returned.

I don't really care. It's more the "if natives are toxic to raiders because they're raided, that's bad, but if raiders retaliate in the slightest they're the devil" narrative that bothers me.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Worth noting, if you arguing folks hadn't already noticed it, that the Founder has returned.

I don't really care. It's more the "if natives are toxic to raiders because they're raided, that's bad, but if raiders retaliate in the slightest they're the devil" narrative that bothers me.

I didn't mean it to sound as though the debate should stop, I just wanted to make sure people were aware of the recent development. Sometimes tensions can run a bit higher and debates can get a bit more heated when there is an active raid, so it seemed worth noting that the raid is over.

[Vulturret]

I must say it is both pleasing and interesting to see TRI's thread garnering attention related to discussions that are becoming interestingly abstract. It's a bit surprising to see, but nice to find nonetheless.

Thank you!


Destroying the entire region wasn't planned "in advance," per se, as it wasn't planned initially on being held for a very long time. However, now that the native nations have spammed "avian furry fucks" on the RMBs of both the target and TRI repeatedly, spammed my telegrams with similar content (neither of which they were deleted for), and joined the TRI Discord chat and spammed text-to-speech, which gave me a heart attack from the random noises coming out of the computer, I think it really cannot be construed as "arbitrarily" destroying the region. Now I have a bone to pick with them.

EDIT: Fixed a sentence structure that made no sense.

Not sure it'd be good to tell people it was planned at all tbf, look what happened when Benja did that.

Indeed, I don't think it would be a good idea in terms of general practice to do so at all. Nor would I ever disclose such information if I felt it would be compromising. Furthermore, I actually never said that TRI was planning on destroying the region. I just merely pointed out that, if it were to happen, it wouldn't be arbitrary, as the nations there engaged in some pretty heinous spam attacks on my Discord server, causing lots of trouble for me.

Grats on one year!

Thank you very much for the sentiment. Myself and the rest of TRI do very much appreciate it.

Worst moral ground ever.

Clearly you haven't been following a lot of the NPO controversies and atrocities of late, if you're going to call that the 'worst moral ground ever.' There's been plenty that has objectively been far worse in terms of morals, even if the people committing the atrocities in the NPO try to pretend they still act on their foolish and made-up to their own needs moral principles.

For one, the original raid was completely arbitrary.

This is false. The raid and the target were both deliberately planned to commemorate the anniversary of the founding of our great region.

They weren't attacked because they casually insulted TRI, they insulted you because you attacked them.

Well, hey, I wouldn't construe the attacking of TRI as 'casual,' although that happened after the invasion. In any case, the reaction was wholly disproportionate, frustrating, and displeasing.

Second, enforcing the rules is the purview of the mods.

Aye, this is why I filed two GHRs on the matter and received a very prompt response, which I was most pleased about.

Flaming is wrong. For that you get warnings, not the destruction of your region.

Aye, under site rules you do get moderator punishment for that, yes. That's why the moderators did their job. I'm not trying to do their job for them. However,r the site rules also permit me to have a World Assembly nation to use however I please within the rules of the game. If I want to destroy their region, I have every right to try to do so. I don't particularly have any interest in running around destroying random regions, as TRI's targets are usually selected for size or importance, but if I wanted to, I could and will. It's not for you to tell me what I can do in response to things.

If asshole remarks merited you obliteration, TRR would be already gone.

Alas that is more of the culture of TRR sometimes, a more laid-back and casual region. You know my opinion on this and the Gameplay forum really isn't a preferable venue for that, although I would be happy to discuss it with you, as I probably already have.

Third, invaders actively look out for whatever cheap excuse they may grab for passwording/refounding.

I mean, you always want positive chips and PR to use, so always look out for anything advantageous. Not specific to invaders at all, just common sense, really. Don't pretend you don't look for good things to say about TRR for diplomatic purposes, I see it all the time and there isn't anything inherently wrong with it.

"The native moved out" (because we turned their region into a crap place to stay in). "The native didn't listen to defender warnings" (for more good reasons that I can type in a single line of text). And naturally "The native flamed us". Which is a very common occurrence when natives don't have enough NS/founderless experience - you get raided, you hardly know or understand it, and you have no good recourse beyond getting angry. I doubt the newbs and less GP-wise members of your region would be any better in the same circumstances.

I think they'd be a lot better, but perhaps that just because I hold the members of my region in very high regard. Perhaps I'll drop them a line about 'how to behave during a state of emergency.' Might be a good read for them anyways.

In any case, getting flamed wasn't an offense to you, it was a blessing: now you can grab a trophy and even claim 'just cause'. You aren't distressed, you're relishing this opportunity.

Actually it was highly offensive. Although yes, as you pointed out, it also had its advantages, but as I mentioned, the text-to-speech spamming of TRI's Discord wasn't funny and actually very scary to me... In any case, it again really isn't your business to dictate to the world how I feel about something when you have no factual basis for your assertions.

Now, since the natives did as they did... idk.. seems to warrant it imo. Not sure fendas/moralists will think the same though.

I dunno. In a way, enacting gameplay justice on someone calling you an "avian furry fuck" is pretty hardcore moralism.

Not really; I just find it annoying and displeasing and would like to see it wiped out. Not good to use sexuality as an insult anyways, really. We shouldn't like to see people trending towards using that more and more often. Things like disgracing LGBTQ people to use as insults or calling people 'furries' because you're annoyed at an online game isn't really a good path for the real-life world to head down.

Congratulations to The Ragerian Imperium and other participating regions on the successful operation.


Is there any factual basis for this statement? I'm not familiar with The Ragerian Imperium's policies, but Balder and The Land of Kings and Emperors aren't known for frequently participating in arbitrarily destructive operations. I don't think they have a firm policy against it, but I think saying it doesn't often happen is a fair assessment. So I would be interested to know if destruction has actually been planned in advance, or if this was just joking speculation.

For me it was supposition based on looking at the influence charts & number of people in the region, I haven't even piled yet

This is correct; if we had wanted to achieve that the numbers were looking to be in our favor to some extent. Now, we're all sitting in the lovely region which the earlier poster is the Delegate of. Nice region to camp out in. Maybe I'll stop by for some grub at the bar and grill.

I didn't realise raiders needed an excuse, cheap or otherwise, for region destruction. They're raiders, that's what raiders do.

Aye. Not only is an excuse not needed, even though we're not making excuses, no justification to Delegate of TRR or any others is required. So long as it is within TRI and NS rules, we're not really restricted on what we can do when we want to do it.

Ah I see. Raiders raiding a region for fun, what a horrible idea, such bullying! But when natives bait, spam and flame the shit out of raiders, it's okay and still a horrible thing to raid!

Ah, moralism at it's finest.

Your sarcasm illustrates the important fact that defender moral-ism has long been corrupted and is out of touch. Perhaps they will eventually realize this. I'm not sure.

However, now that the native nations have spammed "avian furry fucks" on the RMBs of both the target and TRI repeatedly, spammed my telegrams with similar content (neither of which they were deleted for)

Getting Help page is thataway, I'll note a first offense has to be quite serious for an insta-DEAT instead of warnings or short-term RMB/TG bans. Also, a quick look at the RMB in question shows that one of my colleagues addressed the issue.

Yes, Reppy, I am aware. It was I who filed two separate but related GCRs pertaining to TRI and the invasion in question. I was simply pointing otu the fact that they hadn't been deleted. I was pleased to see such swift action taken by your colleague in response to my grievances with their abhorrent behavior.

I didn't realise raiders needed an excuse, cheap or otherwise, for region destruction. They're raiders, that's what raiders do.

Exactly! I agree with this. However the excuse is sometimes required for PR reasons (discourage potential liberators, prevent or delay the passage of SC Liberations), so all reasons that help with that are welcome.

Again, to reiterate, there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to gain a political advantage. This has absolutely nothing to do with any gameplay or political alignment whatsoever. You should be aware of this.

But when natives bait, spam and flame the shit out of raiders

Yes, this is the type of whining I was referring to.
Now you can raid any region I am in on grounds of 'being condescending' or something equally inane.

I wouldn't call it 'whining,' it was just an absurd OOC annoyance that I took legitimate issue with. This is why I took the applicable steps to file a GHR - two actually - and to report the blatant server spam attacks to Discord and its applicable authorities.

Getting Help page is thataway, I'll note a first offense has to be quite serious for an insta-DEAT instead of warnings or short-term RMB/TG bans. Also, a quick look at the RMB in question shows that one of my colleagues addressed the issue.

Ah, but you see, basically it's already been implied that nothing short of regional destruction would be an adequate redress for this awful awful behaviour. So why even bothering with this ineffective 'GHR' stuff? :^)

Re-inserted Reploid Productions' post to ensure the quote isn't misunderstood. Nowhere has it been implied 'that nothing short of regional destruction would be an adequate redress for this awful awful' behavior. I have merely implied that it would give me legitimate cause to want to do so, not that it is the only potential redress.

This made me smile. I can understand they get pissed. But that doesn't mean you have to go full flamebait-OOC-attack-spam mode. You can voice your disapproval without doing these kinda things.

I don't think the point is whether flaming is right or wrong. Flaming is forbidden by the NS rules and it's wrong.
But the outrage and all the "oh wow, I have been abused. Now I have full rights to lock down your home and kick everyone out of it" is just so hyperbolic and fake.

The only thing that is 'hyperbolic and fake' is your unwavering desire to insert your ridiculous desire to insert your moral-ism into actions taken by TRI and to your pretending that I need some kind of 'right' to take over someone's 'home.' I don't really need to ask for anyone's approval to deploy my WA nation, as I've pointed out before. You're really doing absolutely nothing productive by trying to fathom that I will one day adhere to your ludicrous principles when practicing my day-to-day business.

Not really sure assorted flamey insults could be considered on the same level as raiding and then destroying their region.

They're two separate, incomparable, and distinct things which is why I won't attempt to compare them. Although some of the posters above you did with some references I didn't really fully understand, to be completely honest with you.

Now if what you're saying is that destruction wasn't planned until they annoyed you, then that makes sense so long as you avoid the pitfalls in victim blaming when saying that.

Not trying to play 'victim' card or anything, just was subject to an attack, that's true. Not trying to blame them for any justification of anything. Holding the region for a period of time was indeed planned in advance although it was mostly intended to commemorate the festival and not to stay there to achieve any particular goal, if that makes any sense.

Worth noting, if you arguing folks hadn't already noticed it, that the Founder has returned.

I don't really care. It's more the "if natives are toxic to raiders because they're raided, that's bad, but if raiders retaliate in the slightest they're the devil" narrative that bothers me.

Indeed, this bothers me as well.

I don't really care. It's more the "if natives are toxic to raiders because they're raided, that's bad, but if raiders retaliate in the slightest they're the devil" narrative that bothers me.

I didn't mean it to sound as though the debate should stop, I just wanted to make sure people were aware of the recent development. Sometimes tensions can run a bit higher and debates can get a bit more heated when there is an active raid, so it seemed worth noting that the raid is over.

This is true, although I would be pleased to participate in a theoretical discussion and perhaps to hear some sort of substantiation for some of the ridiculous things said in this thread.

[Frattastan IV]

For one, the original raid was completely arbitrary.

This is false. The raid and the target were both deliberately planned to commemorate the anniversary of the founding of our great region.

An action can be both deliberate and arbitrary.
Since you love to namedrop the NPO, I'm sure you'll agree that the NPO's actions against other GCRs were both deliberate (intentional) and arbitrary (in so far as there was no legitimate grounds or necessity for the NPO to harm them). Your attack was arbitrary, and not a response to a previous grievance. The target may have replaced by many other similarly-sized targets with equal effect.

Flaming is wrong. For that you get warnings, not the destruction of your region.

Aye, under site rules you do get moderator punishment for that, yes. That's why the moderators did their job. I'm not trying to do their job for them. However,r the site rules also permit me to have a World Assembly nation to use however I please within the rules of the game. If I want to destroy their region, I have every right to try to do so.

However you didn't argue that you were destroying the region because you "wanted to", with no need to justifying it before others. In that case I wouldn't even have bothered posting, since I expect nothing less from invaders. You argued you were doing it as a sanction for rulebreaking.

And even if you maintain that you are free to do whatsoever and need not to explain yourself before anyone, having a legitimate cause is important (to discourage defenders from intervening and persuade neutrals and independents that the region does deserve to be destroyed).

Third, invaders actively look out for whatever cheap excuse they may grab for passwording/refounding.

I mean, you always want positive chips and PR to use, so always look out for anything advantageous. Not specific to invaders at all, just common sense, really. Don't pretend you don't look for good things to say about TRR for diplomatic purposes, I see it all the time and there isn't anything inherently wrong with it.

My complaint was more that all these reasonings come up ex post.

I just find it annoying and displeasing and would like to see it wiped out.

And that's a proportionate response to verbal insults and a sound basis for the concept of 'justice', of course.

Not good to use sexuality as an insult anyways, really. We shouldn't like to see people trending towards using that more and more often. Things like disgracing LGBTQ people to use as insults or calling people 'furries' because you're annoyed at an online game isn't really a good path for the real-life world to head down.

I never argued that. I would ban someone for using that kind of insults in my forum or server, and report them to the mods if I saw it on NationStates. I was more objecting to the reasoning that this entitles you to capture a region as a trophy, or even the suggestions that it would teach them a good lesson or reeducate them in any way.

Now, we're all sitting in the lovely region which the earlier poster is the Delegate of. Nice region to camp out in. Maybe I'll stop by for some grub at the bar and grill.

You're welcome. You know that I love having you around, even when you have not arrived from a raid.

You're really doing absolutely nothing productive by trying to fathom that I will one day adhere to your ludicrous principles when practicing my day-to-day business.

I have no hope for that, but it's a public venue and I thought that leaving your viewpoints uncontested was a bit too much. After all, you reply to me for the same reason, and this is pretty much the main reason behind every debate in the GP forum.

Speaking of hyperbole, "atrocities" makes it sound like the NPO is executing prisoners or something like that.
IC language is IC, but sometimes it's silly.

I don't really care. It's more the "if natives are toxic to raiders because they're raided, that's bad, but if raiders retaliate in the slightest they're the devil" narrative that bothers me.

I'm a defender. I believe that an arbitrary attack on a region, destructive or not, is a bad thing when done without an extremely good reason (for a number of possible reasons that I won't explain here - but I'm sure you can find plenty of explanations as to why defenders defend).

If natives are toxic to raiders because they're raided that's bad, yes.
Threatening to password/refound in response to that is still not a just "reprisal" as far as I'm concerned (because there is no proportionality between offense and reprisal, nor there cannot be given the kind of offense; because you bestow yourself with the authority to sanction these offenses and decide the right punishment when there is already an in-game authority for that; etc.), which is why I'll complain about it. It's not that "one is bad, but the other is worse". One is bad, but the other makes no sense.

[McChimp]

I think Vult has been misunderstood here.

He didn't say that the natives' conduct gave him the right to destroy their region-the rules of the game grant him that. He said it gave him a motive, and whether it was sufficient as such is a matter for him to decide.

[Frattastan IV]

He didn't say that the natives' conduct gave him the right to destroy their region-the rules of the game grant him that. He said it gave him a motive, and whether it was sufficient as such is a matter for him to decide.

I disagree. He spoke of "legitimate cause", and legitimacy is associated with the assertion of a 'right'.
A legitimate cause is something that entitles you to do something. TRI wanted to be seen as entitled to destroy the region, not just informing us that they had a motive.

And lol at 'the rules of the game grant him that'. There is more to the game than the rules.
All actors continually try to establish political legitimacy for their actions, even when they claim that there is nothing restricting their interregional conduct at all. The Black Hawks "does what it wants" but still decided to spend a lot of time coming up with justifications for their actions in Illuminati (the past behaviour of the region's leadership, support from exiled natives) or Westphalia (defender tag, affiliation with SWORD or whatever that alliance was, the past behaviour of the founder, the fact they mass-recruited from TNP, etc.), because that was useful to win public opinion in other regions.
For that matter the rules of the game allow The Pacific to infiltrate, spy on, destabilise other regions, but they still face backlash for it - and when they do they don't reply "lol I can do everything", they try to defend their legitimacy by claiming it's the work of 'rogues' or that there was a userite threat, etc.

Vult was absolutely defending his legitimacy to act and arguing that he had an entitlement to destroy the region that went beyond a mere "I can do it" (because, to be honest, a lot of people don't care for that argument).

[McChimp]

I disagree. He spoke of "legitimate cause", and legitimacy is associated with the assertion of a 'right'.
A legitimate cause is something that entitles you to do something. TRI wanted to be seen as entitled to destroy the region, not just informing us that they had a motive.

More specifically, actually, he said

legitimate cause to want to do so

which is, again, about motivation, and doesn't carry the connotations you say it does.

I think the same applies for TBH as well, actually. Sometimes our reports include a motivation-some wrong a region has done or whatever-but we're not shy about the fact that we'd still raid as normal even if targets were chosen arbitrarily.
That said, it's worth noting that I have next to nothing to do with organising TBH ops and what I say is observational and potentially wrong.

[Slitherin Snakes]

February Foreign Update

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The Ragerian Imperium Hosts Anniversary Festival

In the final week of January, we here in The Ragerian Imperium were delighted to host guests from several of our diplomatic partners for a festival and celebration to commemorate our one year anniversary since founding. Our guests were delighted to partake in numerous activities, including speeches by the Grand Councillor and His Imperial Majesty. Additionally, festival participants partook in specific games for the event. Here's to many more years of TRI!

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Grand Councillor Jake Appoints New External Affairs Councillor

The position of External Affairs Councillor had remained vacant for a short period of time while Grand Councillor Jake fulfilled those responsibilities, which brought great success to our foreign affairs endeavors. With everything in foreign affairs in prime condition for an official to be named to head that department, the search began to find the official that would bring even further great success to that area. After careful deliberation with advisers, including the Emperor, the choice for the person became obvious. They had been a former Associate Justicar in the region, as well as a veteran of NationStates with great experience in the executive departments of other regions. It was our honor to appoint Smith as our new Councillor of External Affairs. We are excited about the potential for success he brings to the Office of External Affairs.

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Emperor Vulturret Selects New Senator

With a open vacancy occurring in our Senate from former Senator Aav Verinhall resigning, there arose a position to be filled. The selection of a citizen with a peerage for this position wasn't an easy one. All of our nobles have done great work for the region and many serve in positions of leadership already. After careful consideration, Emperor Vulturret found the perfect candidate to bring to the Senate. The Imperial Crown, along with the Lord Protector, had determined that the Marquess of Jorn shall be a most excellent replacement to serve in the legislature. His service to the Imperial Court, Imperial Council, and the Citizens' Assembly has been exemplary, so the Imperial Crown was pleased to announce that Xemt had been appointed to the Senate.

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The Ragerian Imperium Cooperates with Additional Partners Abroad

In a continuing fashion of The Ragerian Imperium, we have continued to construct embassies with other regions throughout the world. The first new embassy this month was Pacifica, which we have been working closely with in the war against the NPO. We look forward to continuing to work with Cormac, their Head of State, fighting our common enemy in the NPO. In addition, one was constructed with St Abbaddon after they had been liberated from the NPO and their true Monarch Topid had been reinstated. We look forward to a long and valuable partnership with them.

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The Ragerian Armada Strikes Again

In a continuing fashion of displaying our strength across the world, our armada was deployed again. This time in our very own operation that we hosted. Our great partners from LKE, TBH, and Balder were in attendance to assist us with our occupation of Brannackia. We were led by Captain Jake who planned and triggered the raid which resulted in a success with Lieutenant Xemt being elected delegate of the region. Unfortunately the founder returned from their slumber shortly after ending the occupation, however it was still a great birthday celebration for TRI and their allies in attendance. Additionally, we were pleased to have several Sailors join our friends in The Black Hawks for their excellent multi-team tag raid operation which concluded with an impressive 144 hits. We commend TBH on this excellent work.

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Produced by the Executive Government on behalf of Emperor Vulturret