The Anatomy of the Coup: How Francos Spain Won

[Unibot III]

I feel it might be apropos to link my lecture from the 2014 NationStates World's Fair: On Ethics in Gameplay.

I am by no means a primary source on the historical matter, but I may well be the first source Unibot encountered on this subject. More importantly however, I disagree entirely with the idea that those means would be justified by in-game ends. A spy lying about where they live and how old they are? Probably fine, in terms of real life ethics. A player falsely telling another player that someone had died in order to gain an in-game advantage? I don't think the person who is that first player would be acting ethically.

In this particular case, it was Goober. But you were always an influence!

[Myrth]

I can't recall either of us 'confirming' that. Not that it matters either way, the security of the Pacific was of paramount concern to which the end always justify the means.

Can't tell if joking, or if actually saying that feigning the death of real players is all well and good.

The comment was tongue in cheek, however the sentiment remains. For the record, all I ever knew about FS leaving the game was that it was due to some sort of 'personal tragedy' and as far as I can recall that was always the party line and I don't believe Unlimited knew/stated any more than that either. I don't know how that particular rumour started, but we wouldn't have been able to confirm or deny it ourselves at the time as FS went completely incommunicado, as did Poskrebyshev. We had to very quickly pick up the pieces and ensure Unlimited took over as delegate.

Out of interest, is the true identity of Great Bight known?

[Unibot III]

Can't tell if joking, or if actually saying that feigning the death of real players is all well and good.

The comment was tongue in cheek, however the sentiment remains. For the record, all I ever knew about FS leaving the game was that it was due to some sort of 'personal tragedy' and as far as I can recall that was always the party line and I don't believe Unlimited knew/stated any more than that either. I don't know how that particular rumour started, but we wouldn't have been able to confirm or deny it ourselves at the time as FS went completely incommunicado, as did Poskrebyshev. We had to very quickly pick up the pieces and ensure Unlimited took over as delegate.

Out of interest, is the true identity of Great Bight known?

http://atlantic.proboards.com/user/96
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/arc ... 53064.html

Together those posts act as confirmation that Great Bight was Mammothistan's first nation. Indeed, that Straight Dope thread is probably a record of Mammothistan joining NS for the first time (which is pretty cool). His "Doper" account and IM username attached to his Atlantic account for New People were both "Blackeyes."

The Straight Dope posts shows Mammothistan invading with the Isle of Cecil and his early connection to the Farkers. Given the timing of him creating "New People" and applying to join the AA on the same day (May 5th), I would guess he was just toying with them and working to embarrass them from the inside.

Later on, around 2006-ish, Mammothistan did post a rather cryptic but intriguing post on an old TWP forum about how the summer of 2004 had marked the accession of three 'Farker' delegates - Great Bight, Loop, and... Francos Spain - which (remarkably) I have reason to believe was true.

[Vulturret]

The comment was tongue in cheek, however the sentiment remains. For the record, all I ever knew about FS leaving the game was that it was due to some sort of 'personal tragedy' and as far as I can recall that was always the party line and I don't believe Unlimited knew/stated any more than that either. I don't know how that particular rumour started, but we wouldn't have been able to confirm or deny it ourselves at the time as FS went completely incommunicado, as did Poskrebyshev. We had to very quickly pick up the pieces and ensure Unlimited took over as delegate.

Out of interest, is the true identity of Great Bight known?

http://atlantic.proboards.com/user/96
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/arc ... 53064.html

Together those posts act as confirmation that Great Bight was Mammothistan's first nation. Indeed, that Straight Dope thread is probably a record of Mammothistan joining NS for the first time (which is pretty cool). His "Doper" account and IM username attached to his Atlantic account for New People were both "Blackeyes."

The Straight Dope posts shows Mammothistan invading with the Isle of Cecil and his early connection to the Farkers. Given the timing of him creating "New People" and applying to join the AA on the same day (May 5th), I would guess he was just toying with them and working to embarrass them from the inside.

Later on, around 2006-ish, Mammothistan did post a rather cryptic but intriguing post on an old TWP forum about how the summer of 2004 had marked the accession of three 'Farker' delegates - Great Bight, Loop, and... Francos Spain - which (remarkably) I have reason to believe was true.

Continually providing incredible writing and facts! Thanks so much, Uni!

[Pierconium]

The comment was tongue in cheek, however the sentiment remains. For the record, all I ever knew about FS leaving the game was that it was due to some sort of 'personal tragedy' and as far as I can recall that was always the party line and I don't believe Unlimited knew/stated any more than that either. I don't know how that particular rumour started, but we wouldn't have been able to confirm or deny it ourselves at the time as FS went completely incommunicado, as did Poskrebyshev. We had to very quickly pick up the pieces and ensure Unlimited took over as delegate.

Out of interest, is the true identity of Great Bight known?

http://atlantic.proboards.com/user/96
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/arc ... 53064.html

Together those posts act as confirmation that Great Bight was Mammothistan's first nation. Indeed, that Straight Dope thread is probably a record of Mammothistan joining NS for the first time (which is pretty cool). His "Doper" account and IM username attached to his Atlantic account for New People were both "Blackeyes."

The Straight Dope posts shows Mammothistan invading with the Isle of Cecil and his early connection to the Farkers. Given the timing of him creating "New People" and applying to join the AA on the same day (May 5th), I would guess he was just toying with them and working to embarrass them from the inside.

Later on, around 2006-ish, Mammothistan did post a rather cryptic but intriguing post on an old TWP forum about how the summer of 2004 had marked the accession of three 'Farker' delegates - Great Bight, Loop, and... Francos Spain - which (remarkably) I have reason to believe was true.

Yes, all three were Farkers.

Some of the other things being discussed in this thread are somewhat inaccurate, but still 'true' within the grand narrative.

1. FS was part of the NPO in other platforms and was never 'shown the door'. I invited him myself on two such endeavors.
2. Yes, he had connections with Ukraine and his primary could be traced through that (not sure if you have done so correctly - you make a claim to have perhaps found it but without the name I can't verify).
3. Yes, the NPO did inform the ADN privately that FS had committed suicide. This was not a ploy, however. It was a lie that was told to the Senate by Posk. It was some time after that the truth was revealed to the Senate and by that time it was difficult to backtrack although over the years work has gone towards doing so.
4. FS still occasionally pops up in NS under his original nation.
5. The Savage Lands went on to become a prominent member of the NPO here and elsewhere under another name. InfernoIce is also still around. Other pre-NPO Delegates of the Pacific have also been a part of the NPO under different names.
6. The original takeover was more happenstance than plan, which I think is covered well in the OP.

Just a few thoughts on a quick reading of the thread.

[Unibot III]

1. FS was part of the NPO in other platforms and was never 'shown the door'. I invited him myself on two such endeavors.

I'll just say I didn't make that remark unsubstantiated. Other Emperors have reported having turned him away at the door. But there's always a possibility different eras have had a different policy towards him.

2. Yes, he had connections with Ukraine and his primary could be traced through that (not sure if you have done so correctly - you make a claim to have perhaps found it but without the name I can't verify).

I think I've found at least two nations that were likely used by Francos Spain. The truth is you can never ascertain which one he considers his "original" if any. One was a puppet that was used to invade with the Farkers and maintained till 2005. And another that he used to hawk/found Ukraine and logged into in 2011 at the same time as he revived Francos Spain for the tenth anniversary of the August Revolution.

The Ukraine nation, I believe, is younger than both Francos Spain and the crasher puppet. The crasher puppet, however, joined NS in late January which is consistent with when other Farkers joined.

I recall Kogvuron and I stumbling upon the crasher puppet in 2013 and dismissing it because it seemed too obvious, but I've since recorded its appearance in several genuine Farker invasions. The coincidences have started to line up too much to discount its credibility anymore.

Other pre-NPO Delegates of the Pacific have also been a part of the NPO under different names.

*raises an eyebrow* Beyond Savage Lands and InfernoIce? We don't have all that many recorded. Hmmm.

[Pierconium]

I’ll just say I didn't make that remark unsubstantiated. Other Emperors have reported having turned him away at the door. But there's always a possibility different eras have had a different policy towards him.

Who made this claim? I don’t believe multiple Emperors have maintained such a policy. I can vaguely recall a story from c.2008 where this was stated to have occurred but that proved to be false after verification with FS by myself. Also, over the years people claiming to be FS have tried to join the Order in various realms but have been turned away because their claim could not be substantiated.

I think I've found at least two nations that were likely used by Francos Spain. The truth is you can never ascertain which one he considers his "original" if any. One was a puppet that was used to invade with the Farkers and maintained till 2005. And another that he used to hawk/found Ukraine and logged into in 2011 at the same time as he revived Francos Spain for the tenth anniversary of the August Revolution.

The Ukraine nation, I believe, is younger than both Francos Spain and the crasher puppet. The crasher puppet, however, joined NS in late January which is consistent with when other Farkers joined.

I recall Kogvuron and I stumbling upon the crasher puppet in 2013 and dismissing it because it seemed too obvious, but I've since recorded its appearance in several genuine Farker invasions. The coincidences have started to line up too much to discount its credibility anymore.

As I said, I can’t verify if you are correct without the actual name. While you may not be able to ascertain what he considered his ‘original’ nation I can because he has told me.

*raises an eyebrow* Beyond Savage Lands and InfernoIce? We don't have all that many recorded. Hmmm.

I like that I still hold some secrets.

[Unibot III]

I’ll just say I didn't make that remark unsubstantiated. Other Emperors have reported having turned him away at the door. But there's always a possibility different eras have had a different policy towards him.

Who made this claim? I don’t believe multiple Emperors have maintained such a policy. I can vaguely recall a story from c.2008 where this was stated to have occurred but that proved to be false after verification with FS by myself. Also, over the years people claiming to be FS have tried to join the Order in various realms but have been turned away because their claim could not be substantiated.

Straight from the horse's mouth. And it didn't sound like absence of confirmation was the reason, it sounded like bad blood to me. Perhaps they were equivocating though (always a concern when communicating with a Pacifician worth his or her salt), but it didn't sound like it...

Speaking of equivocation: " I don’t believe multiple Emperors have maintained such a policy."

As I said, I can’t verify if you are correct without the actual name.

I'm not sure if I want to know if I'm right! But I'll send you the names via telegram.

*raises an eyebrow* Beyond Savage Lands and InfernoIce? We don't have all that many recorded. Hmmm.

I like that I still hold some secrets.

Cheers.

[Crazy girl]

Sudetenland, by any chance?

[Pierconium]

Who made this claim? I don’t believe multiple Emperors have maintained such a policy. I can vaguely recall a story from c.2008 where this was stated to have occurred but that proved to be false after verification with FS by myself. Also, over the years people claiming to be FS have tried to join the Order in various realms but have been turned away because their claim could not be substantiated.

Straight from the horse's mouth. And it didn't sound like absence of confirmation was the reason, it sounded like bad blood to me. Perhaps they were equivocating though (always a concern when communicating with a Pacifician worth his or her salt), but it didn't sound like it...

Speaking of equivocation: " I don’t believe multiple Emperors have maintained such a policy."

Not equivocation. You stated 'other Emperors have reported having turned him away' (plural). Which horse(s)? I can only think of one that may have made such a claim because his narcissistic issues (and accompanying sociopathic lying) would have prevented him from considering the inclusion of a personality that might be seen as bigger than his own among his sycophants, but I digress.

[Pierconium]

Sudetenland, by any chance?

There were several Pacifican Delegates from before TheDoc that were prominent in the NPO, and multiple players had access to these nations on any given day.

(Note for Unibot III: That is equivocation.)

[Unibot III]

Which horse(s)?

I wouldn't dare set the wrath of Ivan Moldavi on a friend!

Sudetenland, by any chance?

There were several Pacifican Delegates from before TheDoc that were prominent in the NPO, and multiple players had access to these nations on any given day.

(Note for Unibot III: That is equivocation.)

I noticed. I had had the same thought as CG.

[Rand AlThor]

Sudetenland, by any chance?

There were several Pacifican Delegates from before TheDoc that were prominent in the NPO, and multiple players had access to these nations on any given day.

(Note for Unibot III: That is equivocation.)

Is there any chance someone from the NPO might be able to give a list of pre-NPO delegates? I'm fascinated by NationStates history, and really want to learn more.

[Unibot III]

There were several Pacifican Delegates from before TheDoc that were prominent in the NPO, and multiple players had access to these nations on any given day.

(Note for Unibot III: That is equivocation.)

Is there any chance someone from the NPO might be able to give a list of pre-NPO delegates? I'm fascinated by NationStates history, and really want to learn more.

Sudetenland - XXXX - XXXX
InfernoIce - XXXX - May 8.
The Wold - May 8 - May 11.
Jell-O - May 11 - May 16.
-Ukraine- - May 16 - May 21.
Olongapo - May 21 - June 25
TheDoc - June 25 - Aug 1
The Savage Lands - Aug 1 - Aug 14
TheDoc - Aug 14 - Aug 18
The Savage Lands - Aug 18 - Aug 20
TheDoc Aug 20 - Aug 28.
---- Francos Spain ----

Sudetenland was not the first delegate of the Pacific (the nation was only created in February 2003), but they were the earliest recorded one. Delegates in the Pacific at that point in Dec 2002 - Jan 2003 had a grand total of ten endorsements on them. Endorsement trading was not widely practiced. It wouldn't surprise me if delegates changed very frequently if they had so few endorsements, which might be why we don't have a record of them (yet.) The Wold also took the delegacy with 10 endorsements but that number quickly climbed to 150.

Here's my full records. The colours indicate if they're guesses, the more "red," the more unsure I am of them.

If I were to take a guess, I have a sneaking suspicion that Sudetenland was ejected from the UN for violations and may have retaken the delegacy as Sudeten.

Sudetenland - XXXX - April 15
Sudeten - April 15 - XXXX
InfernoIce - XXXX - May 8.
The Wold - May 8 - May 11.

[Unibot III]

Someone suggested I turn this into a dispatch for easy distribution and WFE pins. So here it is as a dispatch. Enjoy.

[Pierconium]

Occasionally a player would forget to resign their other (main) UN nation before logging into one of the shared accounts and this would cause the shared nation to be ejected from the UN. It seems that when there were less nations this was enforced a bit more strictly as such issues seemed to get overlooked in some high profile cases of nation sharing later on.

I seem to recall InfernoIce as Delegate a couple of times. I will see if I have any additional records.

[Unibot III]

I seem to recall InfernoIce as Delegate a couple of times. I will see if I have any additional records.

It's possible the National Socialism griefer (-_- / 0-_-0 / PapalExhibitionism) interrupted InfernoIce's reign, given InfernoIce's WFE had the same links on it and appearance of the other regions that the National Socialism griefer had taken-?