The One Stop Shop for Your Lazarus Scandal Needs!

[Auralia]

I also want to challenge this:

You're annexing a region without the approval of the natives (unless you consider Auralia's skewed definition of a "native" to be true) to elevate the power and global influence of Christians.

Any Christian-themed government I would participate in setting up would be democratic, so it couldn't really be characterized as an "annexation". If there really is strong opposition it's not going to happen.

[Cute Puppies]

I also want to challenge this:

You're annexing a region without the approval of the natives (unless you consider Auralia's skewed definition of a "native" to be true) to elevate the power and global influence of Christians.

Any Christian-themed government I would participate in setting up would be democratic, so it couldn't really be characterized as an "annexation". If there really is strong opposition it's not going to happen.

It's very difficult to believe that Christian Lazarus would be democratic and inclusive when United Massachusetts is at the helm. His proposal to ban capital punishment in the WA was naive, brash, and forceful. UM disregarded most criticism for the draft's preamble, which belittled and castigated all criminal justice systems using capital punishment to any degree. He is also recklessly attempting to remove a great WA resolution to make way for his own. This terrible example of compromise, or the lack of, disturbs me greatly.

[Unibot III]

I see your Christian claim to Lazarus and raise you, a Jewish claim.

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free!

[The New California Republic]

I see your Christian claim to Lazarus and raise you, a Jewish claim.

I would actually consider a Jewish claim on Lazarus to be far more intriguing than a Christian one.

[Jar Wattinree]

I see your Christian claim to Lazarus and raise you, a Jewish claim.

I would actually consider a Jewish claim on Lazarus to be far more intriguing than a Christian one.

Lazarus is a Jew, ya know.

I can only imagine what life would like if the Lazarus region was named Jesus.

[Auralia]

I see your Christian claim to Lazarus and raise you, a Jewish claim.

I would actually consider a Jewish claim on Lazarus to be far more intriguing than a Christian one.

How about we compromise on early Jewish Christianity?

[Tim-Opolis]

but we believe these can be overcome with the assistance of those more experienced.

"Come help us, despite the fact that we don't know what we're doing" say hopeful carpetbaggers to experienced players already backing more experienced groups and ideas.

[Ikania]

There is a Christian culture that could be applied to Lazarus. It makes sense, being inspired by the Bible and the tale of Saint Lazarus. You have a lot of culture potential surrounding the Holy Land and Abrahamic mythos.

But that has to be the extent of it. This talk of a "Christian haven" with a Christian hegemony ruling over a supposedly tolerant region is pure tripe. Lazarus is not going to be a theocracy. Our ideologies in-game are influenced by the buttons we push to take over or defend regions, or our beliefs in community rule vs centralized autocracy. Christianity has no place in GP as an ideology. I imagine there would be a lot of riled up sentiment from that same crowd if Muslims took over Osiris and established a Caliphate because Egypt is an Islamized and Arabized country.

Furthermore, you'll notice that the particular religious themes applied to other sinkers don't exist anymore. There is virtually no one in modern society who still holds to ancient Egyptian or Norse beliefs. It's applied to regional culture in a playful way that encourages cultural development. Christianity is the largest religion in the world, and by taking over Lazarus and making it a Christian-centric region, it completely alienates and turns off everyone else. It is regularly, today and throughout history, used by some to cause and justify harm against so many people. I can't imagine anyone who has had negative life experiences with the Church would find this a very good idea. Keep religion out of our GCRs and keep Church and Feeder separate. Christian ideologues have no place in the GCRs.

[Jar Wattinree]

Deus Pacifica.

[Galiantus III]

I like the idea of a Christian-themed Lazarus - it is "Lazarus" after all, and wouldn't be too different than Osiris having an Egypt theme. However, I do understand the opposition to a full-on Christian region made to serve that interest.

[Auralia]

There is a Christian culture that could be applied to Lazarus. It makes sense, being inspired by the Bible and the tale of Saint Lazarus. You have a lot of culture potential surrounding the Holy Land and Abrahamic mythos.

I'm glad to see there's some support for this idea, at least. Realistically I doubt there's enough people interested in supporting a Christian government in Lazarus, but simply a Christian theme would be nice as well.

The rest of your analysis I don't really agree with. Christianity certainly has a role to play in GP, given that it has a great deal to say about political ethics. There are already plenty of Christian or Christian-friendly UCRs, there's nothing in the rules that says that GCRs must be secular, and there's no reason why a Christian region couldn't be inclusive and respectful of religious freedom.

[Tim-Opolis]

There is a Christian culture that could be applied to Lazarus. It makes sense, being inspired by the Bible and the tale of Saint Lazarus. You have a lot of culture potential surrounding the Holy Land and Abrahamic mythos.

I'm glad to see there's some support for this idea, at least. Realistically I doubt there's enough people interested in supporting a Christian government in Lazarus, but simply a Christian theme would be nice as well.

The rest of your analysis I don't really agree with. Christianity certainly has a role to play in GP, given that it has a great deal to say about political ethics. There are already plenty of Christian or Christian-friendly UCRs, there's nothing in the rules that says that GCRs must be secular, and there's no reason why a Christian region couldn't be inclusive and respectful of religious freedom.

You know, this whole argument kind of falls apart when you think about the fact that one of the most prominent Christian regions, Right to Life, has multiple embassies with fascists and fascist-aligned regions.

[Digory Kirke]

There is a Christian culture that could be applied to Lazarus. It makes sense, being inspired by the Bible and the tale of Saint Lazarus. You have a lot of culture potential surrounding the Holy Land and Abrahamic mythos.

I'm glad to see there's some support for this idea, at least. Realistically I doubt there's enough people interested in supporting a Christian government in Lazarus, but simply a Christian theme would be nice as well.

The rest of your analysis I don't really agree with. Christianity certainly has a role to play in GP, given that it has a great deal to say about political ethics. There are already plenty of Christian or Christian-friendly UCRs, there's nothing in the rules that says that GCRs must be secular, and there's no reason why a Christian region couldn't be inclusive and respectful of religious freedom.

Absolutely this. People seem to have the idea that Christians are intolerant of other beliefs, or that Christianity necessitates such intolerance. The idea, of course, is preposterous. Those who claim to be Christians are just as capable of being terrible people as any other group of people, in fact, Christians guarantee that to be the case through the concept of man's fallenness.

While no GCR should be subverted by anyone to make it Christian (except Lazarus, where, of course, the delegate has given all people equal permission and opportunity to subvert it, given that they have the ability to), that does not mean that no GCR should ever be Christian, just because no GCR is right now. That makes no sense any more than this: no GCR should be communist, because none are right now.

You know, this whole argument kind of falls apart when you think about the fact that one of the most prominent Christian regions, Right to Life, has multiple embassies with fascists and fascist-aligned regions.

And most of us, as Christians, abhor fascists. I hope you understand that RTL does not even begin to speak for all Christians on NS. Do not associate Christianity with the actions of one region, just as, I hope, you don't associate the actions of the UDL with TGW's actions.

[Auralia]

You know, this whole argument kind of falls apart when you think about the fact that one of the most prominent Christian regions, Right to Life, has multiple embassies with fascists and fascist-aligned regions.

I admittedly know very little about Right to Life's foreign policy, but it looks like they're an embassy collector -- they have embassies with pretty much any region willing to give them one.

Regions are not obliged to use their embassy list to make a political statement, and I think it would be a mistake to interpret RtL's embassy list as an endorsement of the listed regions or their preferred political systems.

Also, what Digory Kirke said: RtL does not speak for all Christians on NationStates. RtL isn't even specifically Christian -- it's pro-life.

[Ikania]

There is a Christian culture that could be applied to Lazarus. It makes sense, being inspired by the Bible and the tale of Saint Lazarus. You have a lot of culture potential surrounding the Holy Land and Abrahamic mythos.

I'm glad to see there's some support for this idea, at least. Realistically I doubt there's enough people interested in supporting a Christian government in Lazarus, but simply a Christian theme would be nice as well.

The rest of your analysis I don't really agree with. Christianity certainly has a role to play in GP, given that it has a great deal to say about political ethics. There are already plenty of Christian or Christian-friendly UCRs, there's nothing in the rules that says that GCRs must be secular, and there's no reason why a Christian region couldn't be inclusive and respectful of religious freedom.

You see, unlike ancient Norse or Egyptian paganism, there exists a large number of people today who would beg to disagree with your views on Christian ethics- indeed, they would consider themselves to be victims of Christianity. You need to look outside the lens of Christianity as a minority and see the point- religion has no place in GCR governance. Like any modern democratic state, there must be a secular separation of government functions from spiritual beliefs.

[Gibraltarica]

I'm glad to see there's some support for this idea, at least. Realistically I doubt there's enough people interested in supporting a Christian government in Lazarus, but simply a Christian theme would be nice as well.

The rest of your analysis I don't really agree with. Christianity certainly has a role to play in GP, given that it has a great deal to say about political ethics. There are already plenty of Christian or Christian-friendly UCRs, there's nothing in the rules that says that GCRs must be secular, and there's no reason why a Christian region couldn't be inclusive and respectful of religious freedom.

You see, unlike ancient Norse or Egyptian paganism, there exists a large number of people today who would beg to disagree with your views on Christian ethics- indeed, they would consider themselves to be victims of Christianity. You need to look outside the lens of Christianity as a minority and see the point- religion has no place in GCR governance. Like any modern democratic state, there must be a secular separation of government functions from spiritual beliefs.

It's hardly our fault what other people think about us, so it's pointless for us to care whether they unjustifiably blame us. If they do, that's fine, I'd rather such irrationality not be around me. I also disagree with the concept of a necessary separation of church and state on NS. Given that this is not real life, and people have a choice about where to live in this game, there is no reason for that to exist.

Edit: I am a victim of Francoism and would like the Pacific to recognize how gravely they have offended me. They need to look beyond themselves as a minority and think about how their words affect me. See how ridiculous this is?

[Jar Wattinree]

I am a victim of Francoism and would like the Pacific to recognize how gravely they have offended me. They need to look beyond themselves as a minority and think about how their words affect me. See how ridiculous this is?

Skyrim belongs to the Nords, in other words.

[Gibraltarica]

I am a victim of Francoism and would like the Pacific to recognize how gravely they have offended me. They need to look beyond themselves as a minority and think about how their words affect me. See how ridiculous this is?

Skyrim belongs to the Nords, in other words.

Praise be to Talos.

[Auralia]

Like any modern democratic state, there must be a secular separation of government functions from spiritual beliefs.

I simply don't agree that a GCR must be governed "like any modern democratic state". Regional communities have an incredibly low barrier to entry. A person who truly wants no part of a Christian and democratic Lazarus can easily join another region with little difficulty.

[Killer Kitty]

A person who truly wants no part of a Christian and democratic Lazarus can easily join another region

And you can just as easily DEUS VULT somewhere else.

[Tim-Opolis]

Like any modern democratic state, there must be a secular separation of government functions from spiritual beliefs.

A person who truly wants no part of a Christian and democratic Lazarus can easily join another region with little difficulty.

A carpetbagging inept regime can easily go try its hand in another region with little difficulty.

[Auralia]

That's true. But the fact remains that Lazarus is the only GCR named after a saint, which makes it particularly appropriate for this kind of initiative.

[Knock Knock its the Jehovah Witnesses]

It is appropriate, but only for the true believing Jehovah Witnesses and not people who follow the devil's. Lazarus is perfect for us. We do not believe in violence and are perfectly suited for this anarchist region. Government is a sign of the devil and we will continue anarchy while using Lazarus as a home to make the new watchtower.

[Jar Wattinree]

That's true. But the fact remains that Lazarus is the only GCR named after a saint, which makes it particularly appropriate for this kind of initiative.

Are we seriously having this argument now? Osiris is the only GCR named after an Egyptian deity and Balder is the only GCR named after a Norse deity. It doesn't work.

It is appropriate, but only for the true believing Jehovah Witnesses and not people who follow the devil's. Lazarus is perfect for us. We do not believe in violence and are perfectly suited for this anarchist region. Government is a sign of the devil and we will continue anarchy while using Lazarus as a home to make the new watchtower.

*looks suspiciously at new nation that was founded not too long ago*

[Tupelope]

like those christian idiots have the manpower to take laz neways lel