The One Stop Shop for Your Lazarus Scandal Needs!

[Old Hope]

I have to agree with you that those who subvert a GCR into a recruitment base of an UCR should be removed as soon as possible.

I'd like to see evidence that LWU has recruited even a single nation from Lazarus as a result of Aleister being delegate. Actually, I'm still waiting for evidence that "LWU subverted Lazarus" or that we are "griefing it" or just any of the general claims coming from TSP and NPO, really.

Whole lot of assertions, not a scrap of proof. Hey, didn't we go through this exact same thing last July? Like, Déjà vu man.

Where are your attempts and plans to generate long-term activity in Lazarus?
If you have none then Lazarus is nothing more than a trophy region and recruitment base for your organization.

[Fauxia]

The defenders here know fully that neither of those regions actually cares what you do in Lazarus, unless it negatively impacts their own image. We’re just pointing out the fakeness of it all.

I'm glad to know you continue to think quite lowly of Osiris and TWP and, bafflingly, continue to state so publicly, even when it is entirely to your detriment and to the detriment of TSP, the region you just recently unironically represented as their Minister of Foreign Affairs.

Never change Glen. If you did I might have to start trying.

There may have been Former Wardens who were involved in La Resistance, but saying that “TGW was a region that strongly supported La Resistance” is even more BS than the rest of your ”wolfist” propaganda

A claim that, luckily for me, I never made.

Maybe work on your own propaganda before trying to lay into mine?

Lots of TSP, TRR, and TGW in this thread all of a sudden, trying to push Osiris and TWP into a corner.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with those three regions being the most eager to see Lazarus fall since the July Coup Attempt, or their support, overt or otherwise, for the now failed Revolt faction.

Yup, I am sure they are simply concerned about the "morality" of the situation, or maybe they've suddenly become staunch Francoists?

That’s what you said, even if it wasn’t a direct quote.

Also, uh, Old Hope, I hope that was sarcasm about TGW being controlled by the NPO...

That was not sarcasm. TGW is being controlled by the NPO.

Got any evidence to support that, bud?

I have to agree with you that those who subvert a GCR into a recruitment base of an UCR should be removed as soon as possible.

I'd like to see evidence that LWU has recruited even a single nation from Lazarus as a result of Aleister being delegate. Actually, I'm still waiting for evidence that "LWU subverted Lazarus" or that we are "griefing it" or just any of the general claims coming from TSP and NPO, really.

Whole lot of assertions, not a scrap of proof. Hey, didn't we go through this exact same thing last July? Like, Déjà vu man.

So just to clarify, I did not say LWU recruited from Lazarus. It doesn’t need to, because the Sinker named “Lazarus” is right now just an extension of LWU. It doesn’t need to recruit. Why recruit when you get refounded nations?

Actually, I'm still waiting for evidence that "LWU subverted Lazarus" or that we are "griefing it" or just any of the general claims coming from TSP and NPO, really.

Whole lot of assertions, not a scrap of proof.

Oh Lord, are you even denying this? Was the July coup so successful that you now think you can just lie about whatever you want now?

Let’s see, so you’ve declared a “dictatorship of the raider” and a “wolfist revolution” which is raider based, and I’m fairly certain only one raider region has a “wolf” theme. The Lwuzurus flag now resembles LWU’s (a howling wolf with a weird circle thing around it), the Delegate of Lwuzurus “just so happens to be” the Khan of LWU, and of the five Regional Officers, at least three are members of LWU, Imkiville might be, but I’m not sure, and the last only has polls authority. And considering you (probably, not 100% sure) say TSP is a Warden colony, with only three Wardens holding positions of power (one of which is really just a job, no political power, and none of which is Delegate, and only two of which are ROs), it would be hypocritical of you not to call Lazarus subverted by LWU.

[Killer Kitty]

And considering you (probably, not 100% sure) say TSP is a Warden colony, with only three Wardens holding positions of power (one of which is really just a job, no political power, and none of which is Delegate, and only two of which are ROs), it would be hypocritical of you not to call Lazarus subverted by LWU.

And considering how you violently deny the idea that TGW is in charge of TSP, it's doubly ironic that you just unironically asserted that the reverse is true when it comes to Lazarus and LWU, and for the same reasons you say it isn't true about TSP and TGW.

You want to eat your lamb and keep it alive too. Sorry, doesn't work that way.

So just to clarify, I did not say LWU recruited from Lazarus. It doesn’t need to, because the Sinker named “Lazarus” is right now just an extension of LWU. It doesn’t need to recruit. Why recruit when you get refounded nations?

*Blinks*

[Old Hope]

That was not sarcasm. TGW is being controlled by the NPO.

Got any evidence to support that, bud?

They admitted it.

Yes

Yes. Vincent Drake was one of the finest Praetorians to ever serve the New Pacific Order, which is why I appointed him as my successor.

[Roavin]

Lots of TSP, TRR, and TGW in this thread all of a sudden, trying to push Osiris and TWP into a corner.

Where are they being pushed into a corner? Looks more like praise to me. I'll even reiterate (gladly) that Osiris' statement in particular is very eloquent and powerful.

So, Balder is now the only region continuing to support LWU's griefing of Lazarus. Good to know.

You seem bitter. Is it because Balder's support makes it that much harder for TSP to launch an attack on Lazarus?

Smart money says "yes".

Faced with the loss of 2/3 of your interregional support in one fell swoop, all you can do is offer variations of the old "Fenda-Imps in TSP are attacking Laz" chestnut. It reminds me of a certain twitter account, in a way. Who's the bitter one here, EW?

Besides, even if your supposition were true, there's not much left to attack. You and your supporting cast have mostly griefed Lazarus into oblivion as it is. There really isn't much left there except your shrinking "ivory" tower. Balder continues to support your cause to destroy their fellow sinker, and I will point that out whenever relevant.

[Glen-Rhodes]

The defenders here know fully that neither of those regions actually cares what you do in Lazarus, unless it negatively impacts their own image. We’re just pointing out the fakeness of it all.

I'm glad to know you continue to think quite lowly of Osiris and TWP and, bafflingly, continue to state so publicly, even when it is entirely to your detriment and to the detriment of TSP, the region you just recently unironically represented as their Minister of Foreign Affairs.

I’m trying really hard to see why it’s to my or TSP’s detriment, but I’m just not smart enough

[Lord Dominator]

Perhaps I read differently, but TWP's statement doesn't read to me as a permanent withdrawal of support, merely a recognizance of current problems, both internal & PR.

But what do I know?

[Glen-Rhodes]

Perhaps I read differently, but TWP's statement doesn't read to me as a permanent withdrawal of support, merely a recognizance of current problems, both internal & PR.

But what do I know?

That’s exactly what it is, because they’re obviously going to wait until there’s a new controversy cycle, then quietly re-instate the treaty. This is all a PR move.

[Lord Dominator]

Perhaps I read differently, but TWP's statement doesn't read to me as a permanent withdrawal of support, merely a recognizance of current problems, both internal & PR.

But what do I know?

That’s exactly what it is, because they’re obviously going to wait until there’s a new controversy cycle, then quietly re-instate the treaty. This is all a PR move.

No I mean that it literally says (paraphrased) in the statement that they look forward to reopening whatever the Chol thing that was suspended, no secrecy or misleading purpose needed.

[Th Empire of Wymondham]

I, wymondham, speaker of the Lazarene Assembly hereby resign my citizenship of Lazarus as I cannot in good conscience allow a GCR to be made into a puppet of a UCR

[Lord Dominator]

I, wymondham, speaker of the Lazarene Assembly hereby resign my citizenship of Lazarus as I cannot in good conscience allow a GCR to be made into a puppet of a UCR

Strange that you claim to be a Lazarene, when you're in Osiris & speaker of an assembly I've certainly never heard of existing anytime recently

[Cormactopia Prime]

Anyways, Wolf, the only people talking about the “morality” of the situation are TWP and Osiris. The defenders here know fully that neither of those regions actually cares what you do in Lazarus, unless it negatively impacts their own image. We’re just pointing out the fakeness of it all.

Feux is not a defender, Ikania is barely a defender (if he even is anymore), and you haven't moved your WA nation out of TSP in years. Meanwhile, Roavin, Nakari, and Aumeltopia, who actually defend, and who have actual government positions in the South Pacific because they aren't so unpopular now that no one of any alignment will elect them, have spoken well of the decisions made by Osiris and TWP. You do not speak for defenders or for TSP, and by saying things like "The defenders here know..." you are feeding into Evil Wolf's propaganda, that no matter what Osiris and TWP do defenders will attack them, propaganda which is designed to win back Osiris' and TWP's support. Your lack of a filter is damaging to your region's cause, which is the cause of liberating Lazarus. Maybe you should just occasionally consider staying quiet and letting TSP's Cabinet handle these matters, since they handle them better than you.

In any event, I, too, thought these were reasonable and good decisions made by Osiris and TWP, and I'm glad both regions have made them.

I, wymondham, speaker of the Lazarene Assembly hereby resign my citizenship of Lazarus as I cannot in good conscience allow a GCR to be made into a puppet of a UCR

Strange that you claim to be a Lazarene, when you're in Osiris & speaker of an assembly I've certainly never heard of existing anytime recently

He's referring to the legislature of the Dominion of Lazarus, which LWU abolished for no apparent reason. He was elected its Speaker.

[Lord Dominator]

Anyways, Wolf, the only people talking about the “morality” of the situation are TWP and Osiris. The defenders here know fully that neither of those regions actually cares what you do in Lazarus, unless it negatively impacts their own image. We’re just pointing out the fakeness of it all.

Feux is not a defender, Ikania is barely a defender (if he even is anymore), and you haven't moved your WA nation out of TSP in years. Meanwhile, Roavin, Nakari, and Aumeltopia, who actually defend, and who have actual government positions in the South Pacific because they aren't so unpopular now that no one of any alignment will elect them, have spoken well of the decisions made by Osiris and TWP. You do not speak for defenders or for TSP, and by saying things like "The defenders here know..." you are feeding into Evil Wolf's propaganda, that no matter what Osiris and TWP do defenders will attack them, propaganda which is designed to win back Osiris' and TWP's support. Your lack of a filter is damaging to your region's cause, which is the cause of liberating Lazarus. Maybe you should just occasionally consider staying quiet and letting TSP's Cabinet handle these matters, since they handle them better than you.

In any event, I, too, thought these were reasonable and good decisions made by Osiris and TWP, and I'm glad both regions have made them.

Strange that you claim to be a Lazarene, when you're in Osiris & speaker of an assembly I've certainly never heard of existing anytime recently

He's referring to the legislature of the Dominion of Lazarus, which LWU abolished for no apparent reason. He was elected its Speaker.

Ah, gotcha. I assumed the reference was to the CU given my admittedly brief look at the Dominion's stuff

[Tim Stark]

I'd like to heartily applaud the strong actions of both The West Pacific and Osiris. While it's no secret that all our regions have more than a couple differences, we are all still Game Created Regions, and all suffer from similar problems. It's heartbreaking to see a formerly proud region like Lazarus being so thoroughly subverted by UCR-based gloryhunters who don't care for it as anything more than a trophy for them to parade around, and it's definitely an issue in which we can lay our assorted differences aside and present unity in condemning their actions.

[Altinsane]

You three are so adorable. But I didn't make my decision to please you. I did it because it was the right thing to do and in my opinion, appropriate.

It certainly wasn’t because the LWU was a PR disaster and you had egg on your face. Most definitely you aren’t trying to create some fake distance until something new distracts NSGP, so that TWP can pretend as if it didn’t gleefully coordinate the subversion of a GCR.

Let’s save some time. We all know TWP is going to quietly reestablish relations at some point down the road, saying that Wolf has brought stability back, regardless of the truth. Because TWP isn’t concerned about Lazarus’s sovereignty. You’re just worried the PR battle isn’t going your way.

Are you trying to change our minds, Glen? We appreciate your.. point of view.. but will continue to disregard it in this and all of our future endeavors. Thanks.

Make no mistake, Osiris holds no remorse for our actions so far in the Lazarus situation and our statements here do not betray any support of TSP&co on their attempts at taking the region. We have seen Funkadelia's rise to power as legitimate and have considered he and Killer Kitty as among the truest natives of the region. It would have been preferable to see Funkadelia succeed in Lazarus and thrive. We have genuinely believed that he was capable of it and that he and his team would be a positive force in the region, but the sitting Delegate seems to be determined run it to the ground under the flag of a UCR, all while pretending that there is no subversion to speak of. Were we a region which allowed ourselves to be slaves to an R/D alignment and a bit more biased toward what would better serve our own purposes, we would have continued to support them. However, we prioritize sovereignty and the health of our sister Sinker above all else. Sinkers are a very unique leadership experience and require unusual bouts of self sacrifice and compromise in order to make them work. Lazarus has unfortunately become a battleground between two extremely opposing factions who want to win more than they want to function. My advice to Lazarus is to just internalize and focus on yourself. Do not build up your reputation, build up your region. Once you're stable enough by your own rights to say that you've succeeded, come back to the world with a legitimacy that cannot be questioned. (Even if it probably still will be by those who have only wanted to win Lazarus toward their own ends)

Let the cards in Lazarus fall where they may. We wish nothing but the best for the region itself and hope that it will soon find peace and stability. Our only hope is to see Lazarus prosper. In any case, we refuse to support any faction which would use Lazarus to their own ends instead of to the benefit of the region. We believe that current leadership is doing exactly that. We believe that TSP&co would do no better.

We cannot support any of you.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Our only hope is to see Lazarus prosper. In any case, we refuse to support any faction which would use Lazarus to their own ends instead of to the benefit of the region. We believe that current leadership is doing exactly that. We believe that TSP&co would do no better.

We cannot support any of you.

Except this isn't about "TSP&co," it's about governance of Lazarus actually being restored to, you know, Lazarus.

I appreciate that Osiris has withdrawn support for LWU, but this "both sides" thing is silly. Only one side is griefing Lazarus for the benefit of another region.

[Feux]

Why not any embassy closings?

Words are nice, but actions are better.
Storm the embassy!

Interesting how TWP and Osiris have coordinated their diplomatic statements. Almost as if they coordinated quite a bit on the underlying topic ^_^~~~ I wonder if Balder is asleep or if they just need a bit more time to get the wording of their inevitable statement juuuuuust right

You three are so adorable. But I didn't make my decision to please you. I did it because it was the right thing to do and in my opinion, appropriate.

What on earth are you talking about, Dave? I asked a question, you ignore it, and then call me adorable. You could have just answered the question, man, instead of throwing some low-level shade. And besides, the question was about Osiris' statement. I wasn't asking you anything about your decision.

[Glen-Rhodes]

Feux is not a defender, Ikania is barely a defender (if he even is anymore), and you haven't moved your WA nation out of TSP in years. Meanwhile, Roavin, Nakari, and Aumeltopia, who actually defend, and who have actual government positions in the South Pacific because they aren't so unpopular now that no one of any alignment will elect them, have spoken well of the decisions made by Osiris and TWP. You do not speak for defenders or for TSP, and by saying things like "The defenders here know..." you are feeding into Evil Wolf's propaganda, that no matter what Osiris and TWP do defenders will attack them, propaganda which is designed to win back Osiris' and TWP's support. Your lack of a filter is damaging to your region's cause, which is the cause of liberating Lazarus. Maybe you should just occasionally consider staying quiet and letting TSP's Cabinet handle these matters, since they handle them better than you.

Defenders aren't dumb enough to think TWP actually suddenly cares about Wolf couping Lazarus, when they've spent the past 7 months supporting it, just because Wolf finally came out and admitted it was a coup. You're free to see my posts as conspiratorial ravings, idc. Either TWP actually has turned a new leaf (doubtful, but sure, it'd be nice), or I'll be proven right a couple months from now when nothing changes in Lazarus and yet TWP un-suspends their treaty and celebrates "Wolfism."

[Hessere]

You three are so adorable. But I didn't make my decision to please you. I did it because it was the right thing to do and in my opinion, appropriate.

I asked a question, you ignore it, and then call me adorable.

Um, he did. You kinda shot yourself in the foot there.

[Davelands]

I asked a question, you ignore it, and then call me adorable.

Um, he did. You kinda shot yourself in the foot there.

Question: Why not any embassy closings?
Answer: I did it because it was the right thing to do and in my opinion, appropriate.
Slightly Clearer Answer: I did only what I did because it was the right thing to do and in my opinion, appropriate.

Better? IMHO no need to close embassies. I am holding out hope that the region will straighten itself out and we can resume relations with whomever is in charge.

[Aumeltopia]

Feux is not a defender, Ikania is barely a defender (if he even is anymore), and you haven't moved your WA nation out of TSP in years. Meanwhile, Roavin, Nakari, and Aumeltopia, who actually defend, and who have actual government positions in the South Pacific because they aren't so unpopular now that no one of any alignment will elect them, have spoken well of the decisions made by Osiris and TWP. You do not speak for defenders or for TSP, and by saying things like "The defenders here know..." you are feeding into Evil Wolf's propaganda, that no matter what Osiris and TWP do defenders will attack them, propaganda which is designed to win back Osiris' and TWP's support. Your lack of a filter is damaging to your region's cause, which is the cause of liberating Lazarus. Maybe you should just occasionally consider staying quiet and letting TSP's Cabinet handle these matters, since they handle them better than you.

Defenders aren't dumb enough to think TWP actually suddenly cares about Wolf couping Lazarus, when they've spent the past 7 months supporting it, just because Wolf finally came out and admitted it was a coup. You're free to see my posts as conspiratorial ravings, idc. Either TWP actually has turned a new leaf (doubtful, but sure, it'd be nice), or I'll be proven right a couple months from now when nothing changes in Lazarus and yet TWP un-suspends their treaty and celebrates "Wolfism."

Who is this nebulous "defenders" you reference?

I think the point of TWP and Osiris's statements were to say that they support the Dominion and Funk's government, not "Wolfism". You or I may not think that much better in the long-term, but there is a distinction there.

[Fauxia]

And considering you (probably, not 100% sure) say TSP is a Warden colony, with only three Wardens holding positions of power (one of which is really just a job, no political power, and none of which is Delegate, and only two of which are ROs), it would be hypocritical of you not to call Lazarus subverted by LWU.

And considering how you violently deny the idea that TGW is in charge of TSP, [url]it's doubly ironic that you just unironically asserted that the reverse is true[/url] when it comes to Lazarus and LWU, and for the same reasons you say it isn't true about TSP and TGW.

You want to eat your lamb and keep it alive too. Sorry, doesn't work that way.

I would never eat lamb, ever. Yuck, userites.

No, Lazarus is clearly under far more control by LWU than TSP is by TGW, and furthermore, TGW has a policy of not interfering with GCR politics, while this is not the first time LWU has interfered or attempted to interfere with GCR politics. There are members of TGW in TSP who are influential there. That is different from the entire control of Lazarus being in the hands of a few people who "just so happen" to be high members of LWU (well, I don't know if Funk is high there, but you get the drift).

Feux is not a defender, Ikania is barely a defender (if he even is anymore), and you haven't moved your WA nation out of TSP in years. Meanwhile, Roavin, Nakari, and Aumeltopia, who actually defend, and who have actual government positions in the South Pacific because they aren't so unpopular now that no one of any alignment will elect them, have spoken well of the decisions made by Osiris and TWP. You do not speak for defenders or for TSP, and by saying things like "The defenders here know..." you are feeding into Evil Wolf's propaganda, that no matter what Osiris and TWP do defenders will attack them, propaganda which is designed to win back Osiris' and TWP's support. Your lack of a filter is damaging to your region's cause, which is the cause of liberating Lazarus. Maybe you should just occasionally consider staying quiet and letting TSP's Cabinet handle these matters, since they handle them better than you.

Defenders aren't dumb enough to think TWP actually suddenly cares about Wolf couping Lazarus, when they've spent the past 7 months supporting it, just because Wolf finally came out and admitted it was a coup. You're free to see my posts as conspiratorial ravings, idc. Either TWP actually has turned a new leaf (doubtful, but sure, it'd be nice), or I'll be proven right a couple months from now when nothing changes in Lazarus and yet TWP un-suspends their treaty and celebrates "Wolfism."

I mean, TWP did just proscribe TBH, so...

But I don't even think they are even saying they don't support Lwuzarus, they just think it's too disorganized to be worth their time. They don't close embassies because they don't care at all.

[Solorni]

No, Lazarus is clearly under far more control by LWU than TSP is by TGW

Wow! I would never have guessed that TGW has a level of control over TSP. This is the first time I've ever heard of it. Could you please explain more?

[Fauxia]

No, Lazarus is clearly under far more control by LWU than TSP is by TGW

Wow! I would never have guessed that TGW has a level of control over TSP. This is the first time I've ever heard of it. Could you please explain more?

Only in the sense of Wardens acting as individuals, not as an organization. And the phrasing was simply as a comparison. TGW has no mission in TSP, even if individual members of both do

[Drop Your Pants]

Wow! I would never have guessed that TGW has a level of control over TSP. This is the first time I've ever heard of it. Could you please explain more?

And then you can tell us about how LKE controls Balder.