The One Stop Shop for Your Lazarus Scandal Needs!

[Galiantus III]

Your actions have resulted in the reaction and receptions you receive. LWU's actions are why other GCRs may take a good hard look at the raider userite menace in their own regions.

I think this point right here is very important for people all over NS to understand. This is what makes the current raider rulers of Lazarus very different from the GCRs that do raiding.

When a GCR does raiding or defending as an activity for their military, that is a unifying thing. It builds the region, makes it stronger, keeps people involved, teaches them how to keep the region secure, etc. But that is completely different from an exterior raider organization coming in and raiding the region for themselves.

In terms of the public relations of raiders, this conflict in Lazarus does more harm than good. It has connected raiding with userite ambitions for GCR conquest, and only served to vindicate the role of defenders as being inherently more aligned with the needs of contemporary feeder/sinker governments. It has also served to show that activity is entirely independent of what the status quo is: while the status quo of TNP has pretty much stayed the same for two or three years, the activity has only increased, and while Lazarus has experienced lots of political conflict in the past year, the activity has instead decreased slightly.

Hopefully other GCRs will get the message that they do, in fact, stand to lose a lot by letting anyone work to subvert feeder/sinker independence.

[Old Hope]

Lame. As fun as R/D is, it's a stupid basis for politics. Entire political blocs on the basis of how a region's military prefers to spend their time on missions over arbitrary regions not related to any regional casus belli?

Yes, there is struggle between raiders and defenders (hell, I led the most high-profile organization on the latter side up until a month ago - I know). But that is, or at least should be, a different layer of metagaming, in my opinion (and not just mine). The feederite/sinkerite/userite stuff isn't just a set of buzzwords, even though they have been used like that on occasion recently, but rather a very real thing. The GCRs are inherently important and since the dawn of NationStates there have been fights over them by people from pretty much any identifyable faction. The natives of GCRs (the "feederites" and "sinkerites"), who have settled in a GCR for one reason or another, therefore have to fight off the scourge of outsiders ("userites") vying for control of these very powerful and important pieces of real estate.

So no, not buzzwords. Reality.

Whether a user decided to move into a different region or not when they first joined the game isn't arbitrary in any way, then? You tell me that the GCR natives must fight off the userites but you can't tell me why. Even the definition of a userite is hazy-you, who literally just admitted to being the leader of a userite gameplay org, are somehow not a userite? How are the members of LWU, who have made Lazarus their native home, userite subversives when you, who led TGW whilst simultaneously being an influential native of TSP, are not? It's so inconsistent that the only purpose I can see for it is as a propagandist "us" and "them" label, explaining its popularity with all sides of NSGP.

You are confusing "this nation has been residing in an UCR at some point" with Userite and "This nation never moved away from a GCR" with Feederite.
That's not what the terminology means.
A nation is an Userite if they come to a GCR/reside in a GCR and try to make the region a dependancy/colony/recruitment base of an UCR.
It is easy to see that Killer Kitty and the rest are userites because they made Lazarus a colony/recruitment base of LWU.
A nation is a Feederite if they simply contribute to their region without an agenda from an UCR.
A nation could reside for 5 years in an UCR, then quit that region and immigrate into a GCR and get part of that GCR without ever trying to grow the influence of the UCR they were in in the GCR.
That nation does not deserve being named userite anymore.
The status of a nation can change.

[Pergamon]

Whether a user decided to move into a different region or not when they first joined the game isn't arbitrary in any way, then? You tell me that the GCR natives must fight off the userites but you can't tell me why. Even the definition of a userite is hazy-you, who literally just admitted to being the leader of a userite gameplay org, are somehow not a userite? How are the members of LWU, who have made Lazarus their native home, userite subversives when you, who led TGW whilst simultaneously being an influential native of TSP, are not? It's so inconsistent that the only purpose I can see for it is as a propagandist "us" and "them" label, explaining its popularity with all sides of NSGP.

You are confusing "this nation has been residing in an UCR at some point" with Userite and "This nation never moved away from a GCR" with Feederite.
That's not what the terminology means.
A nation is an Userite if they come to a GCR/reside in a GCR and try to make the region a dependancy/colony/recruitment base of an UCR.
It is easy to see that Killer Kitty and the rest are userites because they made Lazarus a colony/recruitment base of LWU.
A nation is a Feederite if they simply contribute to their region without an agenda from an UCR.
A nation could reside for 5 years in an UCR, then quit that region and immigrate into a GCR and get part of that GCR without ever trying to grow the influence of the UCR they were in in the GCR.
That nation does not deserve being named userite anymore.
The status of a nation can change.

This is not correct. Feederites can only be people with their GCR as their one and only affiliation. - As members of UCR, please be as kind to not bend one of the oldest and still viable political theories in NS just the way you like it. It's what Userites have been doing ever since, so I am not surprised.

[Cormactopia Prime]

You are confusing "this nation has been residing in an UCR at some point" with Userite and "This nation never moved away from a GCR" with Feederite.
That's not what the terminology means.
A nation is an Userite if they come to a GCR/reside in a GCR and try to make the region a dependancy/colony/recruitment base of an UCR.
It is easy to see that Killer Kitty and the rest are userites because they made Lazarus a colony/recruitment base of LWU.
A nation is a Feederite if they simply contribute to their region without an agenda from an UCR.
A nation could reside for 5 years in an UCR, then quit that region and immigrate into a GCR and get part of that GCR without ever trying to grow the influence of the UCR they were in in the GCR.
That nation does not deserve being named userite anymore.
The status of a nation can change.

This is not correct. Feederites can only be people with their GCR as their one and only affiliation. - As members of UCR, please be as kind to not bend one of the oldest and still viable political theories in NS just the way you like it. It's what Userites have been doing ever since, so I am not surprised.

How is he a Userite when he resides in the Rejected Realms, having formerly resided in Lazarus?

That said, you're correct about the definition of a Userite. But I'm not sure why you then undermined your point by mislabeling a Sinkerite as a Userite. It just once again illustrates that these terms have really lost their meaning, becoming whatever the NPO wants them to mean at any given time.

[Pergamon]

This is not correct. Feederites can only be people with their GCR as their one and only affiliation. - As members of UCR, please be as kind to not bend one of the oldest and still viable political theories in NS just the way you like it. It's what Userites have been doing ever since, so I am not surprised.

How is he a Userite when he resides in the Rejected Realms, having formerly resided in Lazarus?

That said, you're correct about the definition of a Userite. But I'm not sure why you then undermined your point by mislabeling a Sinkerite as a Userite. It just once again illustrates that these terms have really lost their meaning, becoming whatever the NPO wants them to mean at any given time.

I haven't been researching the heritage of said poster, which was my mistake alone and I hereby apologize for the false accusation. My correction of the previous statement still stands.

[Sarakart]

You are confusing "this nation has been residing in an UCR at some point" with Userite and "This nation never moved away from a GCR" with Feederite.
That's not what the terminology means.
A nation is an Userite if they come to a GCR/reside in a GCR and try to make the region a dependancy/colony/recruitment base of an UCR.
It is easy to see that Killer Kitty and the rest are userites because they made Lazarus a colony/recruitment base of LWU.
A nation is a Feederite if they simply contribute to their region without an agenda from an UCR.
A nation could reside for 5 years in an UCR, then quit that region and immigrate into a GCR and get part of that GCR without ever trying to grow the influence of the UCR they were in in the GCR.
That nation does not deserve being named userite anymore.
The status of a nation can change.

This is not correct. Feederites can only be people with their GCR as their one and only affiliation. - As members of UCR, please be as kind to not bend one of the oldest and still viable political theories in NS just the way you like it. It's what Userites have been doing ever since, so I am not surprised.

I assume this extends only to on-site affairs? The NPO is a multi-site organization which seems to interplay a lot between browser games but it is still only committed to The Pacific on Nationstates.

[McChimp]

I assume this extends only to on-site affairs? The NPO is a multi-site organization which seems to interplay a lot between browser games but it is still only committed to The Pacific on Nationstates.

Obviously not. Francoism must be applied to all aspects of your life! Your work, your family, not just the games you play. Didn't you know what you were getting into?

[Roavin]

I'm actually pleasantly surprised to have a meaningful and engaging discussion in this thread. So, removed from any disagreement, thank you for that, McChimp.

But as an uninformed action, I see no way that can give you greater claim to said region. This will become important later in this post.

Did you even read what I wrote? I told you exactly why... It's actually the same argument as for UCR natives, except more high-stakes precisely because it involves more high-stakes regions.

On a second reading, I see some of the reasoning but do not think it gives greater intellectual weight to francoism. The GCRs may be a valuable prize, but the difference between a userite and a feederite is still very much rooted in the idea of nativeness, a notoriously shaky concept.
I'd argue that there is even an inherently undemocratic aspect to this point of view. In theory, it denies newcomers to the region from UCRs the opportunity to gain influence on the premise alone that they would have to take that influence from those who already possess it simply because influence in a GCR is a precious thing. On the other hand, it suggests that those who do not leave the region for whatever reason upon their founding somehow have a right to that influence despite the fact that they're trying to take it from the same people. As discussed above, the difference between the two groups is arbitrary and therefore this discrimination based upon it is also arbitrary.

I'll absolutely concede that whether a nation came from elsewhere or was spawned in that region isn't necessarily a reflection of their loyalty to that region (SPSF General Resentine was originally founded in TP but is a model South Pacifican). Note, though, that I had said "settled in a GCR for one reason or another" - this can mean that they were born there (as I was), or that they came there later (as, for example, Res). In fact, I had a brief cosmopolitan phase in 2016, and it could just as well have been that I would have settled in TNP or Lazarus or Spiritus. This is, I would postulate, not even a rare scenario.

Note also that userite as a term, while sometimes used for UCR-mains generally, is specifically meant to refer to UCR-mains seeking hold over a GCR. To quote the somewhat outdated but still canonical "Proper Francoist Thought", userites are those who "seek to exploit [a GCR's] fruits; by exploiting both the nations of the [GCR] and the political structure set up within it to further their own political, military and social power". Yes, it's propaganda. No, it's not all sophistry.

Maybe you thought that involving TGW directly would be too obvious a move. As we're demonstrating here, the optics of a UCR getting involved in GCRs are remarkably poor.

I can't fault you for that line of thinking. However, consider this: TGW was at one of its peaks at the time (thinking back, probably at the tail-end of its biggest peak so far). Had the TGW machinery really set its sights on liberating Lazarus, it would have been very noticable and the best efforts couldn't have hidden it.

Maybe any pro-defender influence you've had on TSP has been indirect, affecting opinion rather than deployment, still benefiting the defender cause. Maybe you are in fact whiter than white, and your defender opinions haven't affected TSP at all.

It's mostly the former, except that I've been very forward and open on it. My campaign for TSP's Minister of Military Affairs in 2016 pretty much outright said I would go for a strong defender leaning direction, and stated why (to get the buy-in and shared knowledge from R/Ders in a way that straddling the fence wouldn't). It could just as well have been the other way too, but I personally felt rather compelled towards that side of the spectrum, as does a decent chunk of TSP, so it was only natural. Not much later after, and I think it's reasonable to say that while SPSF certainly isn't the biggest, it's overall the most skilled GCR military.

Can the same be said for all of the other defenders in TSP or TRR?

Nah. But I never claimed otherwise.

Where on that continuum does the line between an honest native and a userite subversive lie? Again, more vagueness.

It's hard to pinpoint, especially because it's so easy to yell "userite subversive!" whilst absolutely ignoring reasonable and apparent sociological factors. In my case, at least, I can point at my record.

This creates these arguments about who is being subverted by who that go on and on and on. The whole idea of userite subversion is flawed.

How does that follow? Just because it's sometimes hard to differentiate between, as you say, the honest native and the userite subversive, doesn't mean that userite subversion somehow doesn't exist in a meaningful way!

[Killer Kitty]

This is not correct. Feederites can only be people with their GCR as their one and only affiliation.

Sticking with Lazarus, does mean the duel PRL/NPO member of the past were not true Feederites? After all, the NPO was not their one and only affiliation.

[McChimp]

Yes, it's propaganda. No, it's not all sophistry.

I think that this is what I mean, really. There is a theoretical basis for francoist thought but practically, when accusing a specific group of people of userite subversion, you are essentially making a subjective assertion about whether they are or are not natives.

Where on that continuum does the line between an honest native and a userite subversive lie? Again, more vagueness.

It's hard to pinpoint, especially because it's so easy to yell "userite subversive!" whilst absolutely ignoring reasonable and apparent sociological factors. In my case, at least, I can point at my record.

This creates these arguments about who is being subverted by who that go on and on and on. The whole idea of userite subversion is flawed.

How does that follow? Just because it's sometimes hard to differentiate between, as you say, the honest native and the userite subversive, doesn't mean that userite subversion somehow doesn't exist in a meaningful way!

I suppose that if you could prove that there was a userite conspiracy, say with logs from a server, then it would have merit. But accusing someone of being a userite without such proof is subjective propaganda and as such could never end an argument like we've seen over the last few pages of this thread.

Take with Lazarus. One side asserts that LWU have colonised Lazarus and that a sinker has been lost to userite hands. The other side says that they haven't colonised Lazarus but are ruling it as natives, having moved there and adopted the aesthetics of LWU (out of laziness, say). The argument boils down to whether those who now rule Lazarus are natives or not, and the two sides will always disagree on that. There's no objective truth there as it stands.

From a propagandist perspective, the aesthetic choice does support Lazarus' opponents, though. It was an extremely poor decision.

[Escade]

Your actions have resulted in the reaction and receptions you receive. LWU's actions are why other GCRs may take a good hard look at the raider userite menace in their own regions.

I think this point right here is very important for people all over NS to understand. This is what makes the current raider rulers of Lazarus very different from the GCRs that do raiding.

When a GCR does raiding or defending as an activity for their military, that is a unifying thing. It builds the region, makes it stronger, keeps people involved, teaches them how to keep the region secure, etc. But that is completely different from an exterior raider organization coming in and raiding the region for themselves.

In terms of the public relations of raiders, this conflict in Lazarus does more harm than good. It has connected raiding with userite ambitions for GCR conquest, and only served to vindicate the role of defenders as being inherently more aligned with the needs of contemporary feeder/sinker governments. It has also served to show that activity is entirely independent of what the status quo is: while the status quo of TNP has pretty much stayed the same for two or three years, the activity has only increased, and while Lazarus has experienced lots of political conflict in the past year, the activity has instead decreased slightly.

Hopefully other GCRs will get the message that they do, in fact, stand to lose a lot by letting anyone work to subvert feeder/sinker independence.

This is a constant struggle of trying to keep foreign influence out. It's why TSP is now truly independent when once we were imperialist tools. There are players in TSP that raid and defend or do a bit of both. It becomes a problem when userite raider groups begin to try to purge regions of any players they oppose. Either a region can succumb to the hostile takeover or fight back. To succumb is to die the rampant death that has befallen Lazarus.

I hope regions of worth will look at Lazarus and see the userite raider threat for what it is. If you call yourself independent and mean it, rather than play word games, then any group trying to "cleanse" your region of "undesirables" of any ideology (because the menace does not believe in independence at all) is the real threat.

One only has to look at the TSP embassy thread to see the userite raider menace attempt to attack TSP for independence, for strength, and for refusing to bow down. If we strengthen ourselves through our allies and choices, we can make sure that the scavengers cannot take out the alphas.

[Miporin]

I think this point right here is very important for people all over NS to understand. This is what makes the current raider rulers of Lazarus very different from the GCRs that do raiding.

When a GCR does raiding or defending as an activity for their military, that is a unifying thing. It builds the region, makes it stronger, keeps people involved, teaches them how to keep the region secure, etc. But that is completely different from an exterior raider organization coming in and raiding the region for themselves.

In terms of the public relations of raiders, this conflict in Lazarus does more harm than good. It has connected raiding with userite ambitions for GCR conquest, and only served to vindicate the role of defenders as being inherently more aligned with the needs of contemporary feeder/sinker governments. It has also served to show that activity is entirely independent of what the status quo is: while the status quo of TNP has pretty much stayed the same for two or three years, the activity has only increased, and while Lazarus has experienced lots of political conflict in the past year, the activity has instead decreased slightly.

Hopefully other GCRs will get the message that they do, in fact, stand to lose a lot by letting anyone work to subvert feeder/sinker independence.

This is a constant struggle of trying to keep foreign influence out. It's why TSP is now truly independent when once we were imperialist tools. There are players in TSP that raid and defend or do a bit of both. It becomes a problem when userite raider groups begin to try to purge regions of any players they oppose. Either a region can succumb to the hostile takeover or fight back. To succumb is to die the rampant death that has befallen Lazarus.

I hope regions of worth will look at Lazarus and see the userite raider threat for what it is. If you call yourself independent and mean it, rather than play word games, then any group trying to "cleanse" your region of "undesirables" of any ideology (because the menace does not believe in independence at all) is the real threat.

One only has to look at the TSP embassy thread to see the userite raider menace attempt to attack TSP for independence, for strength, and for refusing to bow down. If we strengthen ourselves through our allies and choices, we can make sure that the scavengers cannot take out the alphas.

Raiders being the only ones allowed to be userites, or subvert things, yes

[Escade]

This is a constant struggle of trying to keep foreign influence out. It's why TSP is now truly independent when once we were imperialist tools. There are players in TSP that raid and defend or do a bit of both. It becomes a problem when userite raider groups begin to try to purge regions of any players they oppose. Either a region can succumb to the hostile takeover or fight back. To succumb is to die the rampant death that has befallen Lazarus.

I hope regions of worth will look at Lazarus and see the userite raider threat for what it is. If you call yourself independent and mean it, rather than play word games, then any group trying to "cleanse" your region of "undesirables" of any ideology (because the menace does not believe in independence at all) is the real threat.

One only has to look at the TSP embassy thread to see the userite raider menace attempt to attack TSP for independence, for strength, and for refusing to bow down. If we strengthen ourselves through our allies and choices, we can make sure that the scavengers cannot take out the alphas.

Raiders being the only ones allowed to be userites, or subvert things, yes

I remember you in particular echoing the sentiment that couping Lazarus is just a game for your faction and fun. So, I guess yes at this time the userite raider menace is the one trying to subvert, purge, and coup GCRs to make them raider playtoys.

[Galiantus III]

This is a constant struggle of trying to keep foreign influence out. It's why TSP is now truly independent when once we were imperialist tools. There are players in TSP that raid and defend or do a bit of both. It becomes a problem when userite raider groups begin to try to purge regions of any players they oppose. Either a region can succumb to the hostile takeover or fight back. To succumb is to die the rampant death that has befallen Lazarus.

I hope regions of worth will look at Lazarus and see the userite raider threat for what it is. If you call yourself independent and mean it, rather than play word games, then any group trying to "cleanse" your region of "undesirables" of any ideology (because the menace does not believe in independence at all) is the real threat.

One only has to look at the TSP embassy thread to see the userite raider menace attempt to attack TSP for independence, for strength, and for refusing to bow down. If we strengthen ourselves through our allies and choices, we can make sure that the scavengers cannot take out the alphas.

Raiders being the only ones allowed to be userites, or subvert things, yes

It is certainly possible for others to subvert GCR independence, but simply based on difference in ideology it is easily more likely that subversives will be raiders than defenders. It's not a one-sided issue, but there is also an observable imbalance in the direction of raiders.

[McChimp]

It is certainly possible for others to subvert GCR independence, but simply based on difference in ideology it is easily more likely that subversives will be raiders than defenders. It's not a one-sided issue, but there is also an observable imbalance in the direction of raiders.

There should be no ideology involved. In general raiders and defenders are opposing sides in a game, nothing more. Defenders are not morally motivated, not the ones worth speaking with.

[RiderSyl]

It just once again illustrates that these terms have really lost their meaning, becoming whatever the NPO wants them to mean at any given time.

Spot on

[Lord Dominator]

This is not correct. Feederites can only be people with their GCR as their one and only affiliation.

Sticking with Lazarus, does mean the duel PRL/NPO member of the past were not true Feederites? After all, the NPO was not their one and only affiliation.

Not to mention, that's a ridiculously small classification that very few people (generally current delegates and other high officials, if that) are going to fit into.

[Miporin]

I remember you in particular echoing the sentiment that couping Lazarus is just a game for your faction and fun. So, I guess yes at this time the userite raider menace is the one trying to subvert, purge, and coup GCRs to make them raider playtoys.
<gif>

Gonna have to ask for a specific quote on that, rather than just an allegation. Looking through my post history, I see one post mentioning having fun, at the expense of the people getting worked up over the Laz situation. Which is a) a personal opinion, rather than a characterisation of 'my faction' as a whole, b) about the original 'coup', which wasn't actually a coup, and c) a pretty different situation to the current one, making it facetious at best to assume my opinions hold the same for both.

Let's not forget the mostly-defender Lazarene Resistance subverting the Celestial Union by deliberately holding up the courts and courting foreign assistance. I imagine that doesn't qualify as subversion, though, since they weren't 'userite raiders'

[Escade]

I remember you in particular echoing the sentiment that couping Lazarus is just a game for your faction and fun. So, I guess yes at this time the userite raider menace is the one trying to subvert, purge, and coup GCRs to make them raider playtoys.
<gif>

Gonna have to ask for a specific quote on that, rather than just an allegation. Looking through my post history, I see one post mentioning having fun, at the expense of the people getting worked up over the Laz situation. Which is a) a personal opinion, rather than a characterisation of 'my faction' as a whole, b) about the original 'coup', which wasn't actually a coup, and c) a pretty different situation to the current one, making it facetious at best to assume my opinions hold the same for both.

Let's not forget the mostly-defender Lazarene Resistance subverting the Celestial Union by deliberately holding up the courts and courting foreign assistance. I imagine that doesn't qualify as subversion, though, since they weren't 'userite raiders'

Actually, you're not the only one of your faction bringing up the "it's fun" or "it's a game rhetoric" to try to absolve yourself of any criticism or censure. Or to assume that your fun doesn't come at the expense of others time and effort in the game. Also it would be disingenuous of you to say you don't support the userite raider coup of Lazarus based on when and how you have chosen to chime in.

You're also purposefully ignoring what members of your faction, in this very thread, have already admitted to which is that this was a planned LWU op from the beginning and that they don't care. I also don't care what the coupers faction thinks, it's GCRs that concern me and what actions they will take to maintain independence in the face of this planned targeting of GCRs by the userite raider menace.

There was no coup in Lazarus last year other than the LWU coup. Trying to stop a coup propped up by raiders piling in and voting without having contributed a second to the region is not a coup. Asking treatied allies for support in times of coups - that's what GCRs do and expect from their allies. It's the raiader userites that may find that surprising - allies also stay true to their treaties, that must also come as a shock.

Here's the thing about your sophistry of trying to play both raider and defender. You're faction thinks it's all fun and enjoy subverting regions and purging them of people who don't agree with you OR what? You're liberators saving Lazarus from the big bad....wolves? Funny, how desperate the propaganda has to be to try to present both of those as viable. If you want to be a liberator so badly, try defending.

[Miporin]

Actually, you're not the only one of your faction bringing up the "it's fun" or "it's a game rhetoric" to try to absolve yourself of any criticism or censure.

Last I checked, I still don't speak for raiders as a whole. Taking the words of one, or even a few people, to speak for the entire grouping is a broad generalisation, and you know it.

Or to assume that your fun doesn't come at the expense of others time and effort in the game.

Raiders are awful people who do awful things, yes. You've made your stance on this quite clear on numerous occasions.

Also it would be disingenuous of you to say you don't support the userite raider coup of Lazarus based on when and how you have chosen to chime in.

I've done nothing but heap praise upon Funk's government, yes
Not liking the fact that the UDoL's establishment several months ago was scaremongered as a coup doesn't mean that I don't have problems with how certain things are done, or even support the people in charge. Last I checked, you didn't get to decide what my opinions were

You're also purposefully ignoring what members of your faction, in this very thread, have already admitted to which is that this was a planned LWU op from the beginning and that they don't care.

Good for them. They have a right to think what they want.

I also don't care what the coupers faction thinks, it's GCRs that concern me and what actions they will take to maintain independence in the face of this planned targeting of GCRs by the userite raider menace.

Of course. They're evil userite raiders, after all, and don't get to have opinions

There was no coup in Lazarus last year other than the LWU coup. Trying to stop a coup propped up by raiders piling in and voting without having contributed a second to the region is not a coup. Asking treatied allies for support in times of coups - that's what GCRs do and expect from their allies. It's the raider userites that may find that surprising - allies also stay true to their treaties, that must also come as a shock.

I see we're back to the accusations of imported voters. Has any concrete evidence come up in the intervening months, or is it still conjecture?
And sure. The treatied allies were asked for support from the 'resistance' after the region had been 'couped and purged'. Not before, at all, as an attempt to minimise the legitimately-elected delegate's influence.

Here's the thing about your sophistry of trying to play both raider and defender.

I'd also like some citations on me trying to 'play defender'. I'm pretty vocal about my alignment, thanks.

You're faction thinks it's all fun and enjoy subverting regions and purging them of people who don't agree with you OR what? You're liberators saving Lazarus from the big bad....wolves? Funny, how desperate the propaganda has to be to try to present both of those as viable.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth, but no.

If you want to be a liberator so badly, try defending.

Been there, done that. Didn't care for it.

[Escade]

Actually, you're not the only one of your faction bringing up the "it's fun" or "it's a game rhetoric" to try to absolve yourself of any criticism or censure.

Last I checked, I still don't speak for raiders as a whole. Taking the words of one, or even a few people, to speak for the entire grouping is a broad generalisation, and you know it.

Right, but you're grouping the entire CU as defender subversive coupers and that isn't a broad generalization or a complete fabrication.



I'm not the one trying to argue you with you. I don't care what your ilk think because you've admitted to enjoying being a userite raider menace. Your enjoyment of the game depends on other's frustration or players getting "worked up" and you find that fun. You play your way but you also want to stop people playing my way and here trying to defend your side from me. Otherwise you wouldn't have to support the purging and couping of anyone who was independent, neutral or opposed to you ideologically.

There's nothing more to say.

Members of the raider userite menace are trying to argue that the coup of Lazarus was both a userite raider coup victory and also that it wasn't a coup. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

What stands to remain is which of TWP and Balder are willing to keel over and admit to being tools of the LWU and which will have the balls to be like "Screw GCRs bowing to the whims of this userite raider menace."

I think we've at least established that the menace is real, unashamed and willing to pursue their agenda in any GCR that gives them an opening.

[Delescluze]

If you really don't care that much Escade, why are you still posting?

[Escade]

I don't care what you, a random puppet with like 18 posts to your name, think. You haven't said anything worthy of consideration and the parroting is grating to say the least.

I am interested, as a GCR and TSP native, as well as a treatied ally to the CU about what this means for the future. If it's so easy for the userite raider menace to do this and some of the community continues to stand by it sets precedents then more than before, gcrs must be vigilant. It also requires thinking out protective responses to aggressive and hostile takeovers.

[Gibraltarica]

I don't care what you, a random puppet with like 18 posts to your name, think. You haven't said anything worthy of consideration and the parroting is grating to say the least.

That would be funkadelia, Escade.

[Devi Vytherin]

Right, but you're grouping the entire CU as defender subversive coupers and that isn't a broad generalization or a complete fabrication.

Nope, just the people on the Resistance discord server. The fact that that grouping happens to include a large portion of 'defender subversives' in the CU speaks more to the extent of the plotting against the delegate than anything else

Your enjoyment of the game depends on other's frustration or players getting "worked up" and you find that fun.

Ohhh no, getting people worked up is by no means a necessity to my enjoyment of the game. See: tagging dead regions whose natives have a minimal chance of even noticing.

You play your way but you also want to stop people playing my way and here trying to defend your side from me. Otherwise you wouldn't have to support the purging and couping of anyone who was independent, neutral or opposed to you ideologically.

Now, why would I want to stop people from playing 'your way'? Having meaningful opposition makes things more interesting. Thanks for deciding what my motives are, though

Members of the raider userite menace are trying to argue that the coup of Lazarus was both a userite raider coup victory and also that it wasn't a coup. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

No coups here, other than the attempted one by the Resistance, and the recent one towards the LWU branding. If you see any inconsistencies in that stance, feel free to explain.

What stands to remain is which of TWP and Balder are willing to keel over and admit to being tools of the LWU and which will have the balls to be like "Screw GCRs bowing to the whims of this userite raider menace."

Bowing to the whims of TSP crying wolf over userites being the much preferable option, yes

I think we've at least established that the menace is real, unashamed and willing to pursue their agenda in any GCR that gives them an opening.

Ah yes
I'm certain that funk decided that he wanted to coup the region for the sake of his userite agenda back when he joined
What opening did the CU give the 'menace', exactly, aside from electing a reasonably-trusted delegate with a long history in the region?

The poor horse has been beaten enough that the cumulative energy sunk into it has brought it back to life
Would humbly suggest finding some synonyms.

userite raider menace

userite raider

raider userite

userite raider

userite raider

userite raider

userite raider

raiader userites

userite raider groups

userite raider

userite raider

userite raider

e: whoops, missed one.