The One Stop Shop for Your Lazarus Scandal Needs!

[Lenlyvit]

Perhaps you are not familiar with the history of LWU or Lazarus. You live in a glass house.

Um, Killer Kitty is also known as Evil Wolf. He's the founder of LWU and has been playing this game for 13 to 15 years.

[Old Hope]

Perhaps you are not familiar with the history of LWU or Lazarus. You live in a glass house.

Um, Killer Kitty is also known as Evil Wolf. He's the founder of LWU and has been playing this game for 13 to 15 years.

Did you just tell us that Cormac=Evil Wolf?

[Lenlyvit]

Um, Killer Kitty is also known as Evil Wolf. He's the founder of LWU and has been playing this game for 13 to 15 years.

Did you just tell us that Cormac=Evil Wolf?

I have no idea how you could possibly get that from me saying Killer Kitty was EW. Cormac and EW are two different players.

[Old Hope]

Did you just tell us that Cormac=Evil Wolf?

I have no idea how you could possibly get that from me saying Killer Kitty was EW. Cormac and EW are two different players.

But Vadia was replying to Cormac. Not to EW.

[Miporin]

I have no idea how you could possibly get that from me saying Killer Kitty was EW. Cormac and EW are two different players.

But Vadia was replying to Cormac. Not to EW.

Helps to actually look at Vadia's original post, where the relevant section *is* indeed a reply to EW

[Pergamon]

Thank you Cormac for twice saving me a lot of typing today. :-)
Not that I would have bothered. I'm quite comfortable with my decisions and see no need to defend myself against others' opinions of The West Pacific.

For a very long time we have been quite consistent in our philosophy. We believe in the Sovereignty of the Delegacy and we stand by our treaties.

This is an internal change by the Delegate and his chosen successor. Nowhere has there been any indication that Funk has been forced into these moves. As such, we will stand by the new Delegate. It is their choices. If in the future the native population (not the native population under control of an external force) decides that they wish for a change and make that change to become the new, legitimate government of Lazarus, then we will let them be.

TWP also has a treaty with Lazarus that is still in effect. We will assist the sovereign government in defending themselves against outside forces using whatever means are at our disposal.

Consistency... We don't agree with TSP on most things but we do not interfere with their right to run their region as they see fit. Heck, we didn't even complain much when they slipped a clause into their recent treaties in a pathetic attempt to make their treaties the primary ones. And we have more in common with NPO in the userite/feederite space than most people give us credit for. However in this case we are standing by our history and principals. I certainly hope that any disruption this causes in our relationship is temporary but it's their region to do as they see fit.

I am confused. You're referring to "The Right of the Sitting Delegate", a doctrine defined by the New Pacific Order. Something you claim, TWP and NPO would have in common in regards of their views regarding GCRs. However, "The Right of the Sitting Delegate" is a Feederite Privilege, never have we claimed that "The Right of the Sitting Delegate" is a universal law, that even applies to backwater Gameplay UCRs (like LWU) that want to play GCR politics. Lone Wolves United lacks the Feederite Privilege and they lack the legitimization to claim "The Right of the Sitting Delegate", because they are a userite Raiding UCR.

How do you have more in common with us in the userite / feederite space if you are supporting userite Raiding UCRs to commit the ultimate crimes against the Feederite Class?
Including but not limited to:
1. Ruling a GCR as GP UCR
2. Openly and proudly displaying colors of their UCR in the GCR
3. Trying to subjugate the population to userite ideologies

As I said before, this requires a whole lot of clarification. It confuses the New Pacific Order and me alike.

[Galiantus III]

[Kurnugia]

I am really new to GCR-Politic stuff. But to me, it looks like a textbook definition of subversion...

[Lord Theoden]

Balder supports the sovereign and legitimate government of Lazarus in its right to self-governance and therefore its right to make these constitutional and thematic changes. This position reflects our treaty obligations to support the sovereign government of Lazarus. There can be no doubt over Balder's commitment to our treaty obligations. We oppose all hostile elements seeking to undermine Lazarus. We urge The South Pacific and other defender powers to abstain from interfering in the internal affairs of Lazarus.

[Davelands]

I am confused. You're referring to "The Right of the Sitting Delegate", a doctrine defined by the New Pacific Order. Something you claim, TWP and NPO would have in common in regards of their views regarding GCRs. However, "The Right of the Sitting Delegate" is a Feederite Privilege, never have we claimed that "The Right of the Sitting Delegate" is a universal law, that even applies to backwater Gameplay UCRs (like LWU) that want to play GCR politics. Lone Wolves United lacks the Feederite Privilege and they lack the legitimization to claim "The Right of the Sitting Delegate", because they are a userite Raiding UCR.

How do you have more in common with us in the userite / feederite space if you are supporting userite Raiding UCRs to commit the ultimate crimes against the Feederite Class?
Including but not limited to:
1. Ruling a GCR as GP UCR
2. Openly and proudly displaying colors of their UCR in the GCR
3. Trying to subjugate the population to userite ideologies

As I said before, this requires a whole lot of clarification. It confuses the New Pacific Order and me alike.

I don't understand why you need clarification. I think we have been very consistent.

1. Funk / Lamb / EW have been citizens of Lazarus for years. They did not just come in one day and take over as UCR agents. They have earned their citizenship in Lazarus as much as I have in TWP. Whether you like it or not, they are the legitimate rulers of the region. They are Sinkerites. In TWP's opinion, Delegate Sovereignty applies.
2. I'm not happy with them putting up LWU colors either, but I'm also not going to jump ugly on day 2. I am willing to see how it plays out for a little while.
3. I see it as raider ideology as opposed to userite ideology. I know U/F is religion to you but my worldview is broader. There is R/D going on here, there is some thumbing of noses at the defender regions that tried to interfere with them 8 months ago, and there is some power consolidation happening.

I agree with the Feederite over Userite concept but I am not ready to go crusading based upon what I've seen.

[Canton Empire]

I am confused. You're referring to "The Right of the Sitting Delegate", a doctrine defined by the New Pacific Order. Something you claim, TWP and NPO would have in common in regards of their views regarding GCRs. However, "The Right of the Sitting Delegate" is a Feederite Privilege, never have we claimed that "The Right of the Sitting Delegate" is a universal law, that even applies to backwater Gameplay UCRs (like LWU) that want to play GCR politics. Lone Wolves United lacks the Feederite Privilege and they lack the legitimization to claim "The Right of the Sitting Delegate", because they are a userite Raiding UCR.

How do you have more in common with us in the userite / feederite space if you are supporting userite Raiding UCRs to commit the ultimate crimes against the Feederite Class?
Including but not limited to:
1. Ruling a GCR as GP UCR
2. Openly and proudly displaying colors of their UCR in the GCR
3. Trying to subjugate the population to userite ideologies

As I said before, this requires a whole lot of clarification. It confuses the New Pacific Order and me alike.

I don't understand why you need clarification. I think we have been very consistent.

1. Funk / Lamb / EW have been citizens of Lazarus for years. They did not just come in one day and take over as UCR agents. They have earned their citizenship in Lazarus as much as I have in TWP. Whether you like it or not, they are the legitimate rulers of the region. They are Sinkerites. In TWP's opinion, Delegate Sovereignty applies.
2. I'm not happy with them putting up LWU colors either, but I'm also not going to jump ugly on day 2. I am willing to see how it plays out for a little while.
3. I see it as raider ideology as opposed to userite ideology. I know U/F is religion to you but my worldview is broader. There is R/D going on here, there is some thumbing of noses at the defender regions that tried to interfere with them 8 months ago, and there is some power consolidation happening.

I agree with the Feederite over Userite concept but I am not ready to go crusading based upon what I've seen.

So, if this change in Lazarus was illegal (I make no claims to it being so) and you found the Treaty dissolved, what would TWP do?

[Davelands]

So, if this change in Lazarus was illegal (I make no claims to it being so) and you found the Treaty dissolved, what would TWP do?

Y'all would have to wait and see.

We do not support the coup of a legitimate Delegate. But that didn't happen here.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Balder supports the sovereign and legitimate government of Lazarus in its right to self-governance and therefore its right to make these constitutional and thematic changes. This position reflects our treaty obligations to support the sovereign government of Lazarus. There can be no doubt over Balder's commitment to our treaty obligations. We oppose all hostile elements seeking to undermine Lazarus. We urge The South Pacific and other defender powers to abstain from interfering in the internal affairs of Lazarus.

Well, perhaps the NPO can come along and castigate you now as well. So much for the GCR Sovereignty Accords. The NPO can't even respect the sovereign decisions of the other Accords signatories, because the NPO is still committed to meddling in Lazarus' internal affairs. How surprising.

[Ikania]

Balder supports the sovereign and legitimate government of Lazarus in its right to self-governance and therefore its right to make these constitutional and thematic changes. This position reflects our treaty obligations to support the sovereign government of Lazarus. There can be no doubt over Balder's commitment to our treaty obligations. We oppose all hostile elements seeking to undermine Lazarus. We urge The South Pacific and other defender powers to abstain from interfering in the internal affairs of Lazarus.

Well, perhaps the NPO can come along and castigate you now as well. So much for the GCR Sovereignty Accords. The NPO can't even respect the sovereign decisions of the other Accords signatories, because the NPO is still committed to meddling in Lazarus' internal affairs. How surprising.

To the contrary, the NPO seems to be the only power at all which has a problem with GCRs being puppeted on the behalf of userite organizations. Really goes to show you which friends you can trust to stick to their principles.

[Lord Dominator]

Well, perhaps the NPO can come along and castigate you now as well. So much for the GCR Sovereignty Accords. The NPO can't even respect the sovereign decisions of the other Accords signatories, because the NPO is still committed to meddling in Lazarus' internal affairs. How surprising.

To the contrary, the NPO seems to be the only power which doesn't have a problem with GCRs being puppeted on the behalf of userite organizations. Really goes to show you which friends you can trust to stick to their principles.

I think your wording is a bit messed up there, unless you meant to imply that the NPO doesn't have a problem with the so-called GCR puppeting

[Ikania]

To the contrary, the NPO seems to be the only power which doesn't have a problem with GCRs being puppeted on the behalf of userite organizations. Really goes to show you which friends you can trust to stick to their principles.

I think your wording is a bit messed up there, unless you meant to imply that the NPO doesn't have a problem with the so-called GCR puppeting

Right, my bad. Haven't had my coffee yet.

[Pergamon]

I am confused. You're referring to "The Right of the Sitting Delegate", a doctrine defined by the New Pacific Order. Something you claim, TWP and NPO would have in common in regards of their views regarding GCRs. However, "The Right of the Sitting Delegate" is a Feederite Privilege, never have we claimed that "The Right of the Sitting Delegate" is a universal law, that even applies to backwater Gameplay UCRs (like LWU) that want to play GCR politics. Lone Wolves United lacks the Feederite Privilege and they lack the legitimization to claim "The Right of the Sitting Delegate", because they are a userite Raiding UCR.

How do you have more in common with us in the userite / feederite space if you are supporting userite Raiding UCRs to commit the ultimate crimes against the Feederite Class?
Including but not limited to:
1. Ruling a GCR as GP UCR
2. Openly and proudly displaying colors of their UCR in the GCR
3. Trying to subjugate the population to userite ideologies

As I said before, this requires a whole lot of clarification. It confuses the New Pacific Order and me alike.

I don't understand why you need clarification. I think we have been very consistent.

1. Funk / Lamb / EW have been citizens of Lazarus for years. They did not just come in one day and take over as UCR agents. They have earned their citizenship in Lazarus as much as I have in TWP. Whether you like it or not, they are the legitimate rulers of the region. They are Sinkerites. In TWP's opinion, Delegate Sovereignty applies.
2. I'm not happy with them putting up LWU colors either, but I'm also not going to jump ugly on day 2. I am willing to see how it plays out for a little while.
3. I see it as raider ideology as opposed to userite ideology. I know U/F is religion to you but my worldview is broader. There is R/D going on here, there is some thumbing of noses at the defender regions that tried to interfere with them 8 months ago, and there is some power consolidation happening.

I agree with the Feederite over Userite concept but I am not ready to go crusading based upon what I've seen.

1. UCRs have no single legitimacy in GCR, they need to be purged - all of them. This is meant with the Purge of the Userite. I have to assume that Purging the Userite isn't a Rahl thing after all.
It doesn't matter for how long the three mentioned elements have been Userite Sleepers in a GCR. They are enemies of the Feederite Class. And you are trying to justify a UCR takeover of a GCR.
There is no justification for that.

2. With the vocal declaration of Support you haven't done anything that could be remotely been seen as "looking how things play out". TWP already supposedly chose a side.

3. Raiders and Defenders both, are alien to the GCR and ever since tried to subjugate the Game Created Region for their silly, pointless, rotten, eternal war over pointless Userite Regions - that drives brother against brother, sister against sister, Pacific against Pacific, Sinker against Sinker. They defy our Unity. These Userite ideologies bring ruin to the GCR, and always did. Although too many GCR Dignitaries fail to see, that R/D does not make the game more exciting, it doesn't make the game more "real". The mechanical aspects of nations are not changed by the false promises of the accursed idols. The only aspects of nations being changed is the sovereignty and freedom of nations, that put themselves into servitude of either side (Raiders or Defenders), against their homes, against the GCR, against the Feeders, becoming the front-pig, the footman, the soldier, the grunt in the armies of the Userite. Enforcers of slavery of the oppressed Feederite masses. Mindless marching drones against the Feederite Class.

Ultimately, R/D does nothing but to put a nation born by a Feeder into Userite service with the promises of flash, action and fun. Against the Feederite cause itself, against even the very nation itself, in servitude of Userite powers, userite ideologies, fighting over the greatness of their mischievous pseudo-gods, might it be for sake of Raiding or Defending alike.

There is no difference. Raiding and Defending is the sigh of the oppressed nation, the heart of a heartless game, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

And this is why, Davelands, raider ideology is opposed to the Feederite Class.

On additional note, Davelands: United RussoAsia was resident in TWP for a significant time too. After your logic, the DEN takeover of TWP would have been legitimate.
For the New Pacific Order, it wasn't and never will be. UCR have no place in GCR..

Balder supports the sovereign and legitimate government of Lazarus in its right to self-governance and therefore its right to make these constitutional and thematic changes. This position reflects our treaty obligations to support the sovereign government of Lazarus. There can be no doubt over Balder's commitment to our treaty obligations. We oppose all hostile elements seeking to undermine Lazarus. We urge The South Pacific and other defender powers to abstain from interfering in the internal affairs of Lazarus.

My deepest condolences to Balder.

[Roavin]

I think your wording is a bit messed up there, unless you meant to imply that the NPO doesn't have a problem with the so-called GCR puppeting

To the contrary, the NPO seems to be the only power which doesn't have a problem with GCRs being puppeted on the behalf of userite organizations. Really goes to show you which friends you can trust to stick to their principles.

Emphasis mine.

EDIT: I just saw Ike's second post and ... wut.

[Cormactopia Prime]

I think your wording is a bit messed up there, unless you meant to imply that the NPO doesn't have a problem with the so-called GCR puppeting

To the contrary, the NPO seems to be the only power which doesn't have a problem with GCRs being puppeted on the behalf of userite organizations. Really goes to show you which friends you can trust to stick to their principles.

Emphasis mine.

EDIT: I just saw Ike's second post and ... wut.

The mistake was that he said the NPO doesn't have a problem with it. He meant the NPO does.

[Lord Dominator]

I have no idea what your point is Roavin
Perg, you sound a bit like an evangelist there

[Davelands]

I have no idea what your point is Roavin
Perg, you sound a bit like an evangelist there

Perg actually sounds more like a militant radical than an evangelist.
Evangelicals are more about "My way is the only right way, you will come around eventually."
Militant Radicals are "My way is the only right way, the filth must be cleansed, and you must acquiesce to my way."

[Lord Dominator]

I have no idea what your point is Roavin
Perg, you sound a bit like an evangelist there

Perg actually sounds more like a militant radical than an evangelist.
Evangelicals are more about "My way is the only right way, you will come around eventually."
Militant Radicals are "My way is the only right way, the filth must be cleansed, and you must acquiesce to my way."

That does sound more accurate

[Devi Vytherin]

-snip-

Out of curiosity, where does making St Abbaddon an NPO protectorate come into the narrative of r/d being against the interests of feederites?
or several at-the-time NPO people being masked as Wardens for a not-insignificant period of time, for that matter?

[Roavin]

Emphasis mine.

EDIT: I just saw Ike's second post and ... wut.

The mistake was that he said the NPO doesn't have a problem with it. He meant the NPO does.

Ooooh. Right. Maybe I need some coffee.

[Pergamon]

-snip-

Out of curiosity, where does making St Abbaddon an NPO protectorate come into the narrative of r/d being against the interests of feederites?
or several at-the-time NPO people being masked as Wardens for a not-insignificant period of time, for that matter?

1. St. Abbaddon was a region of a element called "Topid", who decided to declare war at the New Pacific Order. It apparently was his last mistake.
During the events that would Topid make an Exile of his home, the opportunity arose to include St. Abbaddon into the Francosphere.
The dogma makes relations between a Francoist Pacific and a Userite region a dangerous or even contradictory arrangement. However, according to specifically same dogma, it doesn't say it can not, or even that it should not be done. The important part here is that the Pacific is indeed to remain in the superior position. It is impossible for a Pacific - and a UCR to be regarded on equal standing. For the Pacifics are the most powerful, most influential and most important Regions in the game. UCRs in friendly relations with the Feederite class, have to stay out of the GCR, have not to aspire rule over the GCR and have to contribute to the Feederite Cause, which St. Abbaddon did by agreeing to remove the counter revolutionary element of Topid. They have served the Pacific - very well. In the meritocratic prospect, with loyalty and service comes reward. Reward which is granted in form of protection. A protection that is lasting as long the Natives of the said UCR do no longer wish to be friendly to the Feederite Class and aid our cause, or if they break parts of the Dogma by aspiring to either rule over a GCR, not staying out of the GCR or openly joining userite armed forces of either side of R/D.

2. 2 Weeks. 2 People. Of which one of them has never conducted any Defensive operations. And the other nation came from the Defendersphere before joining the NPO.
During a brief period in the past, Pacificans have been sent to various R/D organizations for training and learning purposes. We didn't foresee inviting either a Defender or Raider to command our military, how other regions did do in the past. After the sufficient skill-set has been acquired, these kind of memberships have been no longer required.
Your arguments are invalid.