Embassy of the South Pacific

[Solorni]

I concur with Cormac and Sygian. At this point, you should just add the damn Defender tag.

They don't want to do that, because if they drop the pretense that they're not defender, in short order they will find that the only allies they have left are the Rejected Realms and the defunct user-created region Spiritus. They have to keep up the pretense to ensure that the next time they're couped -- and there will be a next time -- they will still have North Pacifican and Europeian pilers to prop up their government-in-exile.

I don't understand why defenders pretend to find it so shameful to take over regions?

[Unibot III]

They don't want to do that, because if they drop the pretense that they're not defender, in short order they will find that the only allies they have left are the Rejected Realms and the defunct user-created region Spiritus. They have to keep up the pretense to ensure that the next time they're couped -- and there will be a next time -- they will still have North Pacifican and Europeian pilers to prop up their government-in-exile.

I don't understand why defenders pretend to find it so shameful to take over regions?

Should we start with Balder?

[Cormactopia Prime]

I don't understand why defenders pretend to find it so shameful to take over regions?

Should we start with Balder?

I would enjoy seeing you try, to be honest. I'm not even Balder's biggest fan, but that would just be hilarious to watch.

[RiderSyl]

I don't understand why defenders pretend to find it so shameful to take over regions?

Should we start with Balder?

Oh please do.

[The Church of Satan]

I don't get why raiders and defenders have to spend all their time off the battlefield being at each others throats. Why can't we all just have fun? Maybe I'm just a dreamer. -_-

[Tim-Opolis]

I don't get why raiders and defenders have to spend all their time off the battlefield being at each others throats. Why can't we all just have fun? Maybe I'm just a dreamer. -_-

My investors demand major salt capital, so I have to satisfy my investors. Their stock options depend on it.

[Drugged Monkeys]

I don't get why raiders and defenders have to spend all their time off the battlefield being at each others throats. Why can't we all just have fun? Maybe I'm just a dreamer. -_-

I can't disagree, and I only hope it will happen one day

[TSP Foreign Office]

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Statement on Lazarus

Numerical evidence and data shows that NationStates is in the middle of its Summer lull. The endorsement count on Tsunamy has dipped below 400, which it has not been in over a year; similar trends can be observed in Osiris, where Neo Kervoskia holds the lowest endorsement count since becoming Pharaoh; or in any other GCR, with one exception - Lazarus. Funkadelia now holds an unprecedented endorsement count of 268, up from 235 only two weeks ago. This deviation from the norm is indicative.

We view the recent reports issued by the Lazarene Guardian and Curious Observations with great concern, even more so since Lazarus has been a valued ally for quite some time. It is clear to anyone that Lazarus is undergoing great inner turmoil as mutual accusations of voter importation, illegal actions, and cronyism are rampant between factions. We unequivocally condemn these very things no matter by whom they are committed. The Coalition of the South Pacific holds the claim to the oldest extant democracy in NationStates, going on 14 years, and in this time we have been through similar trials, but always emerged stronger than we were before by obeying the rule of law and keeping democratic principles sacred; we have urged Funkadelia to stay true to that creed and we urge all other factions and participants in this conflict to do so as well.

We hold great respect for the sovereignty of our ally and strongly believe in free and fair elections. We are monitoring the situation in Lazarus closely and offer to mediate between factions involved so that a civil resolution can be reached that serves the Lazarene community.

[RiderSyl]

Y'know, whatever side you're taking in this, there's something we should all be really let down by. Not a single government has made a public comment on probably the biggest scandal in Gameplay all year. What happened to our FA ministries? Lazarus has treaties with TSP, TRR, Spiritus, and Osiris. Not a single peep, and it's been a week since the accusations were made?

I don't know what's happened to this game, but FA ministers don't seem to be up to snuff. Either that, or FA is dead and we should all mourn that.

Well great, now whenever the TSP cabinet releases something, peeps will be like "oh look GR poked them to do this"

[RiderSyl]

But of course, I'm sure that the TSP FA Ministry being the first, and so far, only foreign ministry of a GCR to bother releasing any sort of statement on the Lazarus situation, 25 hours after root admin, eternal Guardian, and former TSP FA Minister, Glen-Rhodes (Sandaoguo) brought scathing public criticism against them and all other foreign ministries is a complete coincidence. I'm sure the TSP FA Ministry wasn't bullied, or "influenced" into releasing this statement.

And by sure, I mean the complete opposite is true, and TSP's FA office looks like Glen-Rhodes' shameless personal talking puppet. Well, I hope Glen-Rhodes criticizes the lack of FA Ministers' ability to wave goodbye to the credibility of their office, because wave goodbye to yours, TSP! Look, it's going over the horizon! Waaaaave at it!

[Glen-Rhodes]

We're truly heartbroken

[Belschaft]

Glen was hardly the only TSPer who was poking the cabinet. Why does he get all the "shadowy puppet master" credit?

[Drugged Monkeys]

It's obviously the evil defender agenda in TSP

[Tim-Opolis]

God forbid members of the Assembly ask for an update from their Cabinet

[RiderSyl]

Glen was hardly the only TSPer who was poking the cabinet. Why does he get all the "shadowy puppet master" credit?

I don't know, Bel. Maybe it's because he was the only TSPer that was harshly, openly, overly critical of the MoFA just a day before this statement came out.

It's obviously the evil defender agenda in TSP

I know this is sarcasm, but I can firmly agree that it's an obvious agenda. The rest is up for determination.

God forbid members of the Assembly ask for an update from their Cabinet

I'm going to couple this with Bel's statement that Glen wasn't the only member of TSP "poking" the Cabinet. The problem with these as counter-responses isn't their validity. It's very possible that citizens of multiple GCR's, including TSP, are wanting their governments to comment on the situation in Lazarus, rather than it just being Glen-Rhodes throwing his weight around.

The problem here is visibility. By that, I mean that all that can be seen to a casual bystander is that Glen-Rhodes bitched about the state of Foreign Affairs in multiple GCR's including TSP on the 22nd because of a lack of statements about Lazarus, and on the 23rd the Foreign Affairs of TSP released a statement about Lazarus. That doesn't look good.

For all that he's done for the region, he doesn't seem to care how its affairs look to the common nation.

We're truly heartbroken

[Altmoras]

I only see one nation raising a stink about the timing of Glen's comments and TSP's official statement.

[Consular]

At least they posted something. That's more than any other region.

[RiderSyl]

I only see one nation raising a stink about the timing of Glen's comments and TSP's official statement.

Good point. I really am only one nation, raising this concern. I've stirred a bit too much reaction on this, honestly. Certainly more than I expected.

If one outsider nation raising these concerns can get this kind of reaction from all of you, then you should take another look at how you handle these things.
Especially when you consider that the overreaction can make it seem like I raised a valid concern.

[Roavin]

The problem here is visibility. By that, I mean that all that can be seen to a casual bystander is that Glen-Rhodes bitched about the state of Foreign Affairs in multiple GCR's including TSP on the 22nd because of a lack of statements about Lazarus, and on the 23rd the Foreign Affairs of TSP released a statement about Lazarus. That doesn't look good.

Glen didn't know the Cabinet was going to post one, and so he expressed his personal opinion. I don't see an issue with that. That some might pick it up in the way you described (because of the timing) is pretty much the reason I posted that reply you quoted earlier:

Well great, now whenever the TSP cabinet releases something, peeps will be like "oh look GR poked them to do this"

Aaaaand it looks like I was right.

[Cormactopia Prime]

At least they posted something. That's more than any other region.

"At least they posted something"? That implies that they should have posted something. Maybe other regions felt that they should stay out of a complicated internal dispute in Lazarus, instead of making insinuations against the legally elected Sovereign of Lazarus based on conjecture.

Interference in a region's internal affairs based on speculation are not actions taken by a good ally, or any region that is truly committed to upholding Lazarus' sovereignty. Other regions are right to remain silent; it's the South Pacific that is in the wrong here by interfering in an internal Lazarene matter.

That this interference by the South Pacific has occurred very shortly before an election for Sovereign in Lazarus makes it all the more troubling.

[Consular]

You really don't like TSP right now, do you?

[Cormactopia Prime]

You really don't like TSP right now, do you?

Do you ever not evade actual points by deflecting and trying to make everything about the person making them? It's a tired tactic.

[Roavin]

At least they posted something. That's more than any other region.

"At least they posted something"? That implies that they should have posted something. Maybe other regions felt that they should stay out of a complicated internal dispute in Lazarus, instead of making insinuations against the legally elected Sovereign of Lazarus based on conjecture.

Erm, ....

Interference in a region's internal affairs based on speculation are not actions taken by a good ally, or any region that is truly committed to upholding Lazarus' sovereignty. Other regions are right to remain silent; it's the South Pacific that is in the wrong here by interfering in an internal Lazarene matter.

That this interference by the South Pacific has occurred very shortly before an election for Sovereign in Lazarus makes it all the more troubling.

Excuse me, who's making the conjectures and insinuations here?

We noted that there's conflict, we expressed that we're troubled, and we're offering help. In no way can this be reasonably construed to count as any kind of "interference"; rather, I would argue that "a good ally, or any region that is truly committed to upholding Lazarus' sovereignty" should take note and offer (but not force) help, as we have done, rather than sit on the sidelines and ignore it.

The insinuation that the South Pacific is maliciously meddling in Lazarene elections is patently absurd and absolutely baseless.

[Glen-Rhodes]

At least they posted something. That's more than any other region.

Exactly. I wasn't singling out Escade. I was wholesale calling out every GCR government that alleges they have an FA ministry.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Excuse me, who's making the conjectures and insinuations here?

We noted that there's conflict, we expressed that we're troubled, and we're offering help. In no way can this be reasonably construed to count as any kind of "interference"; rather, I would argue that "a good ally, or any region that is truly committed to upholding Lazarus' sovereignty" should take note and offer (but not force) help, as we have done, rather than sit on the sidelines and ignore it.

The insinuation that the South Pacific is maliciously meddling in Lazarene elections is patently absurd and absolutely baseless.

You did quite a bit more than that.

• You insinuated the presence of foreign pilers by noting Funkadelia's unusually high endorsement count and calling it "indicative";
• You stated that you "unequivocally condemn" unproven "voter importation, illegal actions, and cronyism."

The suggestion that this is not malicious meddling is, frankly, absurd. The offer to "mediate" the dispute is equally absurd, in that it would be impossible for a party that has accepted unproven claims being made by one side of the dispute to effectively mediate between the two sides.

Unless the government of Lazarus requested your intervention, and I'm sure they didn't, you're meddling in an internal conflict that is none of your business.