Embassy of the South Pacific

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

...and then excluded from cabinet decisions, according to cabinet member Somy? In a chat made by you, Roavin?

---

Serres’ platform included noting and desiring to change the fact that a few people in TSP tend to hold much of the power and cycle through the same positions. Despite this, he’s avoided recognizing that most of the competitors to these people tend to be driven out of the region one way or another. What’s more, he even endorsed for the cabinet elections Roavin and Glen, two administrators, one of which is a CRS member, and both of which, as discussed during that very election, worked to declared a novice cabinet member a security threat and exclude them from cabinet activities without providing any evidence to back that call (according to cabinet member Somy).

Actions speak louder than words.

I’m waiting for some actions that back all these nice words from you, Serres.

[The Church of Satan]

-snip-

Let's see if he makes it to prime minister, then you can boast.

[Roavin]

...and then excluded from cabinet decisions, according to cabinet member Somy? In a chat made by you, Roavin?

Sure. None of that invalidates my point, though.

-snip-

Let's see if he makes it to prime minister, then you can boast.

That's a beautiful example of the "moving the goalposts" fallacy.

[The Church of Satan]

That's a beautiful example of the "moving the goalposts" fallacy.

Oh no, you won't get away with changing the topic. The fact of the matter is that once again a select few made sure that the prime minister is only who they feel it should be, not for the benefit of the region, but to maintain their power and control over the region.

[Roavin]

That's a beautiful example of the "moving the goalposts" fallacy.

Oh no, you won't get away with changing the topic. The fact of the matter is that once again a select few made sure that the prime minister is only who they feel it should be, not for the benefit of the region, but to maintain their power and control over the region.

No, I'm saying you committed the fallacy. PS2 was elected MoRA, you said it was only because the elite allowed it. I noted that Islands was also elected, and then you mentioned the Prime Minister position. That's a classic case of moving the goalposts.

Also, you say "fact". Can you show that Glen and I (or whoever's in GP's eye right now) is actively manipulating votes or anything? Do you realize that the Election Commissioner this election was none other than Belschaft, whose rivalry with Glen is the thing of legends within TSP? I can campaign, or ask people to vote differently, or do a bunch of other things, but at the end of the day, the only vote Glen or I or whoever else control is our own.

[The Church of Satan]

We've been watching it happen for years. The lies, rumors and mudslinging perpetrated by the likes of Glen-Rhodes in order to further their own political agendas. Even more appalling is that it has gradually gotten worse, ever corrupting, permiating TSP. All safely locked away behind closed doors because of unsubstantiated evidence too "sensitive" to release because it would threaten their stranglehold on the region. If it ever came to light it would probably shatter TSP government because they've gone too far and there is no turning back.

[Glen-Rhodes]

We've been watching it happen for years. The lies, rumors and mudslinging perpetrated by the likes of Glen-Rhodes in order to further their own political agendas. Even more appalling is that it has gradually gotten worse, ever corrupting, permiating TSP. All safely locked away behind closed doors because of unsubstantiated evidence too "sensitive" to release because it would threaten their stranglehold on the region. If it ever came to light it would probably shatter TSP government because they've gone too far and there is no turning back.

I literally lost my election 32%-68%

Your tin-foil hat is too loose, apparently.

[The Tri State Area and Maine]

I think a player with barely three NSGP posts to their name should be asking their administration for evidence about their multiple false accusations.

So while the current discussion is interesting, I really need to know what number of NSGP posts has to do with anything.

[Tim-Opolis]

We've been watching it happen for years. The lies, rumors and mudslinging perpetrated by the likes of Glen-Rhodes in order to further their own political agendas. Even more appalling is that it has gradually gotten worse, ever corrupting, permiating TSP. All safely locked away behind closed doors because of unsubstantiated evidence too "sensitive" to release because it would threaten their stranglehold on the region. If it ever came to light it would probably shatter TSP government because they've gone too far and there is no turning back.

I literally lost my election 32%-68%

Your tin-foil hat is too loose, apparently.

That's because not even the best of cabals could make the prospect of the dumpster fire that would occur should you attain Cabinet office in TSP an electable thing. The fact that you personally are unelectable does not negate the quite accurate point that CoS is raising.

[Glen-Rhodes]

That's because not even the best of cabals could make the prospect of the dumpster fire that would occur should you attain Cabinet office in TSP an electable thing. The fact that you personally are unelectable does not negate the quite accurate point that CoS is raising.

Remember that time you infiltrated a rival political party with the explicit intent to destroy it from the inside, because you thought its members were stupid? Remember me saying it was fucked up and corrupt, and declining to take part? Remember that time you leaked classified IP intel to your friend, so they could tip off the person it was about?

CoS should probably learn a bit more about TSP, instead of regurgitating whatever talking points are floating around GP circles.

[The Church of Satan]

I'm well aware of what TSP politics are all about. Especially with regards to yourself Glen. Always ready to do whatever it takes to "win". Even when it means bullying good people out of the region. Some of us never forget your dark deeds of the past.

[Mojoland]

Having made your stance on TSP well known to all, I'm not quite sure what else there is for you and other detractors to do in this thread.

The logical conclusion is that you believe - by some miracle - all the vitriol aimed at TSP will give its citizenry sufficient cause to banish Glen, Roavin, and whoever the villain happens to be next week. It is a foolish endeavour and a rather poor use of your time. Time which could be better spent focusing on your respective home regions rather than lurking in this one thread, pouncing at any and every opportunity to defame the Coalition in the Gameplay community.

[Tim-Opolis]

That's because not even the best of cabals could make the prospect of the dumpster fire that would occur should you attain Cabinet office in TSP an electable thing. The fact that you personally are unelectable does not negate the quite accurate point that CoS is raising.

Remember that time you infiltrated a rival political party with the explicit intent to destroy it from the inside, because you thought its members were stupid? Remember me saying it was fucked up and corrupt, and declining to take part?

Well, you have clearly demonstrated that you don't know what you're talking about since there was never any plot to join a political party and destroy it. What you mean is the scheme to take over and subvert the SPP that was the brainchild and cause of your best pal Roavin. I have no qualms admitting I joined a political party looking to take it over, but let's not forget whose idea and scheme it was. I was just along for the ride because I didn't like the APC.

Remember that time you leaked classified IP intel to your friend, so they could tip off the person it was about?

I don't, actually, and think that you should maybe substantiate your claim with some details and evidence. This seems like quite a serious allegation, that would have definitely led to charges being filed. Oh wait, I forgot that you like leveraging trumped up accusations, and then first deflecting then ghosting when people actually ask for you to spine up and back up your claims.

Speaking of deflection, you seem to have tossed up a bunch of strawman arguments to attempt to avoid responding to the fact that Souls assertion does indeed continue to be correct, given that you are an unelectable outlier within the cabal rather than the norm. I guess you'll probably ghost next.

CoS should probably learn a bit more about TSP, instead of regurgitating whatever talking points are floating around GP circles.

Lol k

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

CoS should probably learn a bit more about TSP, instead of regurgitating whatever talking points are floating around GP circles.

Having made your stance on TSP well known to all, I'm not quite sure what else there is for you and other detractors to do in this thread.

The logical conclusion is that you believe - by some miracle - all the vitriol aimed at TSP will give its citizenry sufficient cause to banish Glen, Roavin, and whoever the villain happens to be next week. It is a foolish endeavour and a rather poor use of your time. Time which could be better spent focusing on your respective home regions rather than lurking in this one thread, pouncing at any and every opportunity to defame the Coalition in the Gameplay community.

(First off, talk about “regurgitating talking points” lol)

>>Farengeto’s Cabinet plus Roavin make claims about Souls, claims harmful to his reputation, that are so blatantly false that even TSP’s own courts eventually included statements such as “the Court cannot trust the Cabinet’s assertion” in their ruling
>>Despite TSP’s courts overturning that proscription, claims stand publicly and uncorrected
>>I sleep.

>>TSP Admins accuse Tim and Escade publicly of harassment
>>Refuse to provide evidence
>>I sleep.

>>Bringing any of this up or generally criticizing how TSP is run
>>REAL SHIT THATS DEFAMING US

[RiderSyl]

Having made your stance on TSP well known to all, I'm not quite sure what else there is for you and other detractors to do in this thread.

The logical conclusion is that you believe - by some miracle - all the vitriol aimed at TSP will give its citizenry sufficient cause to banish Glen, Roavin, and whoever the villain happens to be next week.

"Next week"? It's TSP. We'll be lucky to get a new villain out of there in the next 5 years.

It is a foolish endeavour and a rather poor use of your time. Time which could be better spent focusing on your respective home regions rather than lurking in this one thread, pouncing at any and every opportunity to defame the Coalition in the Gameplay community.

Two problems with that:
1. Criticizing the Coalition is fun, and people like to have fun.
2. Criticizing the Coalition is easy, so it doesn't detract from other activities.

By the way, having two MoFA's campaign on ignoring this thread and then having two TSP members dive head-first into this thread is basically The South Pacific in a nutshell. "Here's our official stance, and here's what we're really doing."

Do you realize that the Election Commissioner this election was none other than Belschaft, whose rivalry with Glen is the thing of legends within TSP?

So THAT'S why Glen lost his election! Sucks when the corrupt system works against you, huh GR?

[Escade]

CoS should probably learn a bit more about TSP, instead of regurgitating whatever talking points are floating around GP circles.

Having made your stance on TSP well known to all, I'm not quite sure what else there is for you and other detractors to do in this thread.

The logical conclusion is that you believe - by some miracle - all the vitriol aimed at TSP will give its citizenry sufficient cause to banish Glen, Roavin, and whoever the villain happens to be next week. It is a foolish endeavour and a rather poor use of your time. Time which could be better spent focusing on your respective home regions rather than lurking in this one thread, pouncing at any and every opportunity to defame the Coalition in the Gameplay community.

(First off, talk about “regurgitating talking points” lol)

>>Farengeto’s Cabinet plus Roavin make claims about Souls, claims harmful to his reputation, that are so blatantly false that even TSP’s own courts eventually included statements such as “the Court cannot trust the Cabinet’s assertion” in their ruling
>>Despite TSP’s courts overturning that proscription, claims stand publicly and uncorrected
>>I sleep.

>>TSP Admins accuse Tim and Escade publicly of harassment
>>Refuse to provide evidence
>>I sleep.

>>Bringing any of this up or generally criticizing how TSP is run
>>REAL SHIT THATS DEFAMING US

Amerion, who has been in the region for a few months, seems to be really upset about TSP defamation but still can't respond to the following:
1. Does TSP have clear and fair moderation standards now? Has it dealt with toxicity? Or did that project once more get thrown out of the window because you refuse to hold your administration to any standards but double standards?
2. You seem to really think providing evidence is important from anyone BUT TSP...
3. You think specific candidates running for IC positions should face harsh criticism but don't think TSP should face criticism when it actually makes false accusations of OOC levels

I'm also utterly delighted that Glenn-Rhodes once more shows what a farce his whole holier-than-thou attitude is when it is his best buddy Roavin who decided to tear apart two political parties and schemed to take over the SPP in a chat called Caballerinas. Glenn accuses Tim of being a party to it while giving the actual mastermind a free pass. That's completely legitimate.

[Mojoland]

Amerion, who has been in the region for a few months, seems to be really upset about TSP defamation but still can't respond to the following:
1. Does TSP have clear and fair moderation standards now? Has it dealt with toxicity? Or did that project once more get thrown out of the window because you refuse to hold your administration to any standards but double standards?
2. You seem to really think providing evidence is important from anyone BUT TSP...
3. You think specific candidates running for IC positions should face harsh criticism but don't think TSP should face criticism when it actually makes false accusations of OOC levels

Is my length of citizenship relevant to this matter?

1. Simply because I refrain from criticising the government on this platform does not mean I, and others, are not holding them accountable in the Assembly.
a. Although I like and respect you OOC, it is unfortunate to see you talk of toxicity in the region when for an extended period of time in the Discord server, it was filled with your posts, consistently and relentlessly arguing, taunting, and demeaning people across the political spectrum. That is not to say that your involuntary departure was handled in the most appropriate manner, but it is clear to even the most casual of players that the tone and general atmosphere of successive debates and discussions were greatly improved.

2. While I understand the basis of your claim, it is misplaced. I have said nothing of the evidence. I have, however, lamented that you and others go round and round in circles in this thread without a clear direction.

3. The distinction between questioning a candidate for Prime Minister on what their agenda may be and lambasting TSP (or any other region for that matter) lies in the potential for resolution. In the case of the former, the resolution came in the form of an election. Yet I see no logical conclusion to this discourse and because of this, I think it proper to point out the futility of what I imagine have been your hours of heated rhetoric against a region which you have all but condemned and as such, are unlikely to ever return.

[Edited to include the text below]

"Next week"? It's TSP. We'll be lucky to get a new villain out of there in the next 5 years.[.quote]

Realistically, I think within the year.

Two problems with that:
1. Criticizing the Coalition is fun, and people like to have fun.
2. Criticizing the Coalition is easy, so it doesn't detract from other activities.[.quote]

Fair point.

If I interpreted their (candidates') remarks correctly, I believe the Ministry itself will not be interacting with this embassy in a formal capacity. As to what private individuals do, I suppose it is their business whether or not to comment on this thread.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

It's a bit of a jump from "you have a point but you're wasting your time here" (something I also disagree with - the "clear direction" is not letting these things fade away without resolution, like they would if everyone stopped talking about it. Keep raising hell until changes happen. If you think that there's no "logical conclusion" because these things will never be addressed, then are they really being held accountable?) to "you're just looking to defame them," which explicitly implies slanderous, libelous, false content - exactly what we're raising hell *about.*

[Mojoland]

It's a bit of a jump from "you have a point but you're wasting your time here" (something I also disagree with - the "clear direction" is not letting these things fade away without resolution, like they would if everyone stopped talking about it. Keep raising hell until changes happen. If you think that there's no "logical conclusion" because these things will never be addressed, then are they really being held accountable?) to "you're just looking to defame them," which explicitly implies slanderous, libelous, false content - exactly what we're raising hell *about.*

I would like to clarify my position with respect you specifically. I have no issue with your complaints and grievances with TSP's government. Whether I may agree with it or not, there is a solid argument for you to make regarding your proscription. And unlike others, your case will in one way or another be resolved by the current Cabinet (or, if need be, the High Court).

As to your point, where in relation to my use of 'defame', I was speaking to two different things, the first being the insinuations of negligent IC behaviour on the part of TSP as a whole, and the other (the one you have quoted) being Escade's removal from TSP.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

My case win undoes the effects of the proscription, but forces no recanting of claims - and have yet to find anything that would let me file a case forcing them to be removed and apologized for

Meanwhile, 3.5 days in, half a week in, one 35th of their term gone, the new cabinet has so far not done the simple act of striking through blatantly, grudgingly admittedly, dangerously false claims and apologizing for the mess that let them be writ into official order in the first place, even with half the cabinet being a direct continuation of the prior one, and a head start between their election win and their formal term start.

[Escade]

Amerion, who has been in the region for a few months, seems to be really upset about TSP defamation but still can't respond to the following:
1. Does TSP have clear and fair moderation standards now? Has it dealt with toxicity? Or did that project once more get thrown out of the window because you refuse to hold your administration to any standards but double standards?
2. You seem to really think providing evidence is important from anyone BUT TSP...
3. You think specific candidates running for IC positions should face harsh criticism but don't think TSP should face criticism when it actually makes false accusations of OOC levels

Is my length of citizenship relevant to this matter?

1. Simply because I refrain from criticising the government on this platform does not mean I, and others, are not holding them accountable in the Assembly.
a. Although I like and respect you OOC, it is unfortunate to see you talk of toxicity in the region when for an extended period of time in the Discord server, it was filled with your posts, consistently and relentlessly arguing, taunting, and demeaning people across the political spectrum. That is not to say that your involuntary departure was handled in the most appropriate manner, but it is clear to even the most casual of players that the tone and general atmosphere of successive debates and discussions were greatly improved.

2. While I understand the basis of your claim, it is misplaced. I have said nothing of the evidence. I have, however, lamented that you and others go round and round in circles in this thread without a clear direction.

3. The distinction between questioning a candidate for Prime Minister on what their agenda may be and lambasting TSP (or any other region for that matter) lies in the potential for resolution. In the case of the former, the resolution came in the form of an election. Yet I see no logical conclusion to this discourse and because of this, I think it proper to point out the futility of what I imagine have been your hours of heated rhetoric against a region which you have all but condemned and as such, are unlikely to ever return.

[Edited to include the text below]

"Next week"? It's TSP. We'll be lucky to get a new villain out of there in the next 5 years.[.quote]

Realistically, I think within the year.

If I interpreted their (candidates') remarks correctly, I believe the Ministry itself will not be interacting with this embassy in a formal capacity. As to what private individuals do, I suppose it is their business whether or not to comment on this thread.

I always find it exceptionally interesting where and how players choose to comment on things. Yes, your short tenure in the region matters because you have not actually looked at the Discord and what has been going on for years, even recently as within this year. Ironically, when I started pulling the evidence of the same exact behavior within days committed by admin, and tried to open a discusion on which behaviors were appropriate I was banned the next morning. What you allege to do on other platforms is irrelevant as you are asking people not to comment on this platform on matters that you don't have much context on.

A former delegate and admin of TSP made a clear and unambigious statement that toxicity as it is now being defined was ingrained in TSP' culture and has never been addressed for years. That key members of admin were actually far more involved in toxicity and were part of the central issue there. I proposed that we actually deal with the problem with fair and transparent moderation practices several times. Within a day of stating that we should work on such standards and having begun pulling out logs from the public discord of such behaviors by admin..oh yes I was banned. What several people engaged in was neither new to the region or in any way different from what several other players, including admin, had been doing for years. If you decide that its wrong then it should be consistently wrong regardless of the clique that's engaged in it. After all, as long as I was doing what admin wanted me to be doing (being a good cheerleader) they praised me for the same behaviors or encouraged them even. That is to say that fighting was encouraged by admin when they had a goal in mind.

Just today a random minor participant in this conflict quoted things, some said by others and attributed them to me as if I and Tim or I an Ian or I and whoever were the same person. That's not how moderation works either (loose, unproven as well as hyperbolic testimony taken out of context) and that's why evidence is tantamount to any case. It is not a minor point that as soon as Tim, in good faith, told Tsunamy that he would be counterfiling against at Glenn-Rhodes that this blanket ban happened.

I'm not going to "win" in TSP, I've already lost this battle. There's no hope here for reconciliation or justice or fairness of any kind. That doesn't preclude me from stating that this whole situation was utter garbage, a farce and shows the true face of TSP.

I've never been good at politics. Critiques of my own role in TSP from Cormac or others have sometimes been valid. My playstyle is "socialite" or culture\social based. My other major flaw here was that I took politics as a team sport and while in private may have disagreed with people, tried to present some unified front. I still actually don't know how to play politics nor do I feel I will be able to do the things others do so easily such as backstab, etc. You also haven't been able to answer my questions which in itself proves my point. Toxicity will be used as a political weapon in TSP whenever it is convenient, ignoring the various toxic things going on at length and never actually creating fair standards of moderation. Therefore moderation and administration is a joke.

What is concerning is that these same people will continue these same behaviors and have chosen their next target. Roavin has targeted Islands for months now. He has decided to tarnish Islands reputation and standing in the region through unsubstantiated rumor mongering about him being a secuity threat. Yes, Islands was legally elected but then Roavin went and created a shadow cabinet to prevent a legally elected minister from making major decisions. It wasn't until one cabinet minister stood against this that it was even brought to light. Islands himself was threatened for trying to bring it up. Yet you elected Roavin as a Minister once more regardless of this.

So the fact is that this is the only platform that I have. You have several available to you and as a community you made some choices. You're as accountable to them and should be able to face criticism for them without trying to silence people. After all, as you yourself stated, criticism of players who are merely running for a position are warranted.

TSP, I'm sure, can hope that the issues dissappear and perhaps they will. Or most certainly they will. Something new will occupy NSGP. Players will move on to other things. Doesn't change that the real issues just keep being buried in the back of the closet. One day the closet door will open all the skeletons will fall out.

[Syberis]

Dude, I'm just popping in here to say I'm really proud of England. They're so happy for Croatia and France that they've been holding a good-natured celebration for months.

We all should strive to be more like England.

[The Serres Republic]

Dude, I'm just popping in here to say I'm really proud of England. They're so happy for Croatia and France that they've been holding a good-natured celebration for months.

We all should strive to be more like England.

You and me both Syb, you and me both.

[Tim-Opolis]

Dude, I'm just popping in here to say I'm really proud of England. They're so happy for Croatia and France that they've been holding a good-natured celebration for months.

We all should strive to be more like England.

You and me both Syb, you and me both.

What a brave statement from the Prime Minister. It has never been clearer how much he cares about accountability.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Congratulations on winning the PM seat. Looking forward to seeing this very soon.

Thankyou for the congratulations!

Hey, it’s been a week now, any word for this bird?