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Embassy of the South Pacific | New Treaty with 10000 Islands

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Consular
Minister
 
Posts: 3026
Founded: Apr 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Consular » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:27 pm

KhanterWinters wrote:
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
Prime Minister: Islands of Unity vs The Serres Republic
Foreign Affairs: Glen-Rhodes vs Somyrion
Regional Affairs: Pencil Sharpeners
Military Affairs: Roavin




Wait :P

So there is elections for Prime Minister.... and Prime Minister can not assign the Ministers? Then what is the sense of having a PM? Why have a PM elections? With this then just have delegate and their ministers and that is it....

They have an odd system yes

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Kringalia
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Founded: Feb 03, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Kringalia » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:51 am

It was decided that it was best to have the Delegate be a more unifying figure who offered longer-term leadership, and to leave the more political and policy-oriented aspects to a separately-elected Prime Minister, who would not have ultimate control of the region via the delegacy.

While the Prime Minister does not select their Ministers, the idea was to an extent that they’d lead the Cabinet and help articulate a common vision for the region.
Delegate of the South Pacific (x2) | Vice Delegate (x1) | Minister of Regional Affairs (x2) | Minister of Foreign Affairs (x1) | Deputy Minister of Regional Affairs (x3) | Member of the Committee for State Security (Current)
Federal Constitutional Republic | President Todd Wilcox | GDP $834 billion | Population 19 million | Founding Member of the Southern Cooperation Organisation

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All Wild Things
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Founded: Apr 24, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby All Wild Things » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:16 pm

I think that whoever takes over in Foreign Affairs should address this long running crisis - it's been ongoing for over three months now.

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Ever-Wandering Souls
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:45 pm

All Wild Things wrote:I think that whoever takes over in Foreign Affairs should address this long running crisis - it's been ongoing for over three months now.


Sorry, they both campaigned on ignoring this thread, the outdated title might be here to stay :P
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TG me anytime; I'm always happy to talk about anything!

The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

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Alkasia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Alkasia » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:34 pm

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
All Wild Things wrote:I think that whoever takes over in Foreign Affairs should address this long running crisis - it's been ongoing for over three months now.


Sorry, they both campaigned on ignoring this thread, the outdated title might be here to stay :P

Nah I think the plan is to keep it around for another 3 years and 9 months when England will definitely win in Qatar. Definitely.
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Ever-Wandering Souls
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Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:37 am

the moment we are out of elections we are dealing with this.


Fair, after elections are over I will rush the take down of those statements over the re-issuing statement.

SoulsToday at 1:34 PM
That’s something, at least.

Ner0Today at 1:34 PM
Give me specific quotes from the statement and I'll convince the cabinet to agree to take it down, or just do it independetally cuz the PM is op now.
just throw them in here and I'll snip them out once I've done the cabinet end of stuff ;p

SoulsToday at 1:36 PM
Most jarringly -
The proscription claims I attempted to “coerce Imki.” This is false and your court agrees.
The statement claims I tried to blackmail someone. Roavin on behalf of the cabinet has outright admitted that that is false.
Less strikingly; all claims made were ruled false, irrelevant, or unproven.

Ner0Today at 1:40 PM
Alright, if Im elected I'll do these things up for you.


Congratulations on winning the PM seat. Looking forward to seeing this very soon.
Last edited by Ever-Wandering Souls on Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Proud Raider; General of The Black Hawks
TG me anytime; I'm always happy to talk about anything!

The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative

How Do I Telegram API?

Omnis delenda est.

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The Serres Republic
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Founded: Jan 01, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby The Serres Republic » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:00 am

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
the moment we are out of elections we are dealing with this.


Fair, after elections are over I will rush the take down of those statements over the re-issuing statement.

SoulsToday at 1:34 PM
That’s something, at least.

Ner0Today at 1:34 PM
Give me specific quotes from the statement and I'll convince the cabinet to agree to take it down, or just do it independetally cuz the PM is op now.
just throw them in here and I'll snip them out once I've done the cabinet end of stuff ;p

SoulsToday at 1:36 PM
Most jarringly -
The proscription claims I attempted to “coerce Imki.” This is false and your court agrees.
The statement claims I tried to blackmail someone. Roavin on behalf of the cabinet has outright admitted that that is false.
Less strikingly; all claims made were ruled false, irrelevant, or unproven.

Ner0Today at 1:40 PM
Alright, if Im elected I'll do these things up for you.


Congratulations on winning the PM seat. Looking forward to seeing this very soon.


Thankyou for the congratulations!

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Tim-Opolis
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Tim-Opolis » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:43 pm

Bet you all their promises are empty ones .
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Escade
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Founded: Apr 11, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Escade » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:56 pm

I hope that regional admin of any allies of TSP are following up on the administration issue. TSP has an administration that uses OOC bans against political enemies because it see's no other way to achieve its aims. In addition, it also has several players who use emotional manipulation and alleging mental health issues (that crop up conveniently and don't apply when it is their friends behaving in similar ways) to run their political rivals out of the region instead of actually playing the game. These same players threatened the TSP administration with "we will leave the game" or other garbage and have been playing as themselves or under assumed names the whole time. They couldn't deal with "conflict" unless it meant them winning elections without any rivals or tough questions on their campaigns. How disgusting. Truly repulsive what the region has become. Nothing worth salvaging at all.

As for Islands, I knew he wouldn't last considering the false accusations being spread about his identity. You don't have the right to try to doxx players because it suits you and you want to use it as an angle of attack. Considering the type of players that TSP administration goes to for advice and representation, not sure what their issue here could even be. It's a shame that the region allowed his rivals to basically shut him out through unproven claims. That's also really despicable and on par for the course with TSP's double standards.
Last edited by Escade on Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:08 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Nakarisaune
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Nakarisaune » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:15 pm

Escade wrote:In addition, it also has several players who use emotional manipulation and alleging mental health issues (that crop up conveniently and don't apply when it is their friends behaving in similar ways) to run their political rivals out of the region instead of actually playing the game. These same players threatened the TSP administration with "we will leave the game" or other garbage and have been playing as themselves or under assumed names the whole time. They couldn't deal with "conflict" unless it meant them winning elections without any rivals or tough questions on their campaigns. How disgusting. Truly repulsive what the region has become. Nothing worth salvaging at all.


If you count chatting in TRR and TSP as playing as themselves, and occasionally chatting with an alt account in TRR "playing under assumed names", then yes, I am absolutely guilty of failing to quit the game. God knows I've tried. But hey, good to know you'd be happier if I was gone for good :P

(I'm assuming this is at least partially about me, because of your comments in NSGP Discord about 'players faking leaving' just after I came back, and because I've used an alt account, though I wouldn't consider it playing.)
Last edited by Nakarisaune on Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Escade
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Founded: Apr 11, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Escade » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:31 pm

Escade wrote:I hope that regional admin of any allies of TSP are following up on the administration issue. TSP has an administration that uses OOC bans against political enemies because it see's no other way to achieve its aims. In addition, it also has several players who use emotional manipulation and alleging mental health issues (that crop up conveniently and don't apply when it is their friends behaving in similar ways) to run their political rivals out of the region instead of actually playing the game. These same players threatened the TSP administration with "we will leave the game" or other garbage and have been playing as themselves or under assumed names the whole time. They couldn't deal with "conflict" unless it meant them winning elections without any rivals or tough questions on their campaigns. How disgusting. Truly repulsive what the region has become. Nothing worth salvaging at all.

As for Islands, I knew he wouldn't last considering the false accusations being spread about his identity. You don't have the right to try to doxx players because it suits you and you want to use it as an angle of attack. Considering the type of players that TSP administration goes to for advice and representation, not sure what their issue here could even be. It's a shame that the region allowed his rivals to basically shut him out through unproven claims. That's also really despicable and on par for the course with TSP's double standards.


Actually Islands got a really shitty deal. He was declared suspicious because:
1. He chose to DM players with messages that were simple and direct and asked players what they wanted to see in TSP.
2. He shared any DMs when requested publically to show that he was a straight forward player and did not do anything sketchy.
3. He ran a successful TG campaign to help Tsunamy become elected delegate and did not stick to any one party or group.
4. He won an election even though there was heated opposition to him (including these rumors about his alleged identity as well as players declaring his DM campaigns as disgusting and then trying to use the same tactics).
5. He actually asked for better standards of politics for TSP in terms of behaviors and conflict and meant it (the only problem being he asked for those standards to be applied to everyone not just who the admin favored or disfavored).
6. As a cabinet member, he was cut out of cabinet decisions and power through the machinations of a shadow cabinet.
7. He lost the current election after being asked the kind of "hard questions" that the TSP admin and their control freak group deemed to be in "bad taste" and seemingly would ban people for eight months for. In fact, I do believe that one of the reasons Tim and I were banned was for asking such "tough questions" of cabinet members. Hmm....

Unlike the players who use emotional manipulation and alleged mental health issues to play the game - he tried to actually play clean politics. It's almost like "keep your ooc shit to yourself" is a rule that people forget. As someone wisely stated in this thread, if you have OOC issues deal with them in real life. Don't bring them into the game. Unfortunately Islands has been run out of the region for not being part of the control freak squad's plans. And of course there was no one to stand up for him especially those that decried "tough campaign questions" as causing them potential mental health anxiety. Covenient OOC issues applying only when it doesn't suit you.

Ironic.

Oh wait Somy did stand up for Islands, at least in terms of the cabinet and fair play issue. Hmm...still democracy in TSP is dead and I wonder how long they'll let Somy survive. Interesting to see those votes.
Last edited by Escade on Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:47 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Aclion
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Anarchy

Postby Aclion » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:47 pm

Escade wrote:Oh wait Somy did stand up for Islands, at least in terms of the cabinet and fair play issue. Hmm...still democracy in TSP is dead and I wonder how long they'll let Somy survive. Interesting to see those votes.

He covered their ass in Forest's forum, and he's our ambassador to TSP. If they boot him they either don't care for a relationship with us or they dum.

(Yes I'm too lazy to switch puppets)
Last edited by Aclion on Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cormactopia Prime
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Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:51 pm

Escade wrote:Unfortunately Islands has been run out of the region

His main/WA nation is still in the region though. :unsure:

I largely agree with a lot of what you're saying, but this confused me. Did they in fact run him out of the region and he just hasn't moved his nation out yet, or was that hyperbole, intended to convey that their behavior toward him was of a nature that it could run someone out of a region?
Last edited by Cormactopia Prime on Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RiderSyl
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Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:50 am

Cormactopia Prime wrote:
Escade wrote:Unfortunately Islands has been run out of the region

His main/WA nation is still in the region though. :unsure:

I largely agree with a lot of what you're saying, but this confused me. Did they in fact run him out of the region and he just hasn't moved his nation out yet, or was that hyperbole, intended to convey that their behavior toward him was of a nature that it could run someone out of a region?


I'd like some clarification on this as well.
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Roavin
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Roavin » Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:24 am

Islands remains a Legislator and just yesterday proposed some amendments. So, no, not run out of the region.
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Mojoland
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Founded: Feb 01, 2013
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Mojoland » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:47 am

Escade wrote:As for Islands, I knew he wouldn't last considering the false accusations being spread about his identity. You don't have the right to try to doxx players because it suits you and you want to use it as an angle of attack.

I'm unfamiliar with any attempt to doxx Islands of Unity or any other nation.

Escade wrote:...

7. He lost the current election after being asked the kind of "hard questions" that the TSP admin and their control freak group deemed to be in "bad taste" and seemingly would ban people for eight months for. In fact, I do believe that one of the reasons Tim and I were banned was for asking such "tough questions" of cabinet members. ...

I'm afraid your generalisation of the questioning is incorrect - in that unless the everyone present in the campaign threads, myself included, are part of this 'control freak group', then it is demonstrably false. While I do not wish to revisit an election that has since past, especially when both Prime Ministerial candidates are not here to speak for themselves, I will say that questions about Islands' agenda were very much warranted - and all the more so when his opponent provided a rather extensive policy platform.

Escade wrote: ... Unfortunately Islands has been run out of the region for not being part of the control freak squad's plans. And of course there was no one to stand up for him especially those that decried "tough campaign questions" as causing them potential mental health anxiety. Covenient OOC issues applying only when it doesn't suit you.

Once again, I find myself unfamiliar with the basis of your claims. To the best of my knowledge, Islands continues to play a significant role in the Assembly and in the region overall. Could you please elaborate on what you mean by 'run out of the region'?
Last edited by Mojoland on Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Escade
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Ex-Nation

Postby Escade » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:16 am

RiderSyl wrote:
Cormactopia Prime wrote:His main/WA nation is still in the region though. :unsure:

I largely agree with a lot of what you're saying, but this confused me. Did they in fact run him out of the region and he just hasn't moved his nation out yet, or was that hyperbole, intended to convey that their behavior toward him was of a nature that it could run someone out of a region?


I'd like some clarification on this as well.


The tactics used are ones I've seen before in the region used to isolate, cut out and then force people to leave. Even when he had only recently entered the region several players received these rumors, including myself, of Islands being a double identity\alt\etc and therefore "OOC bad." None of those rumors were ever substantiated (from months ago) and nor have been substantiated in any way but continue to be the basis for attack behind the scenes to this date.

I tend to follow up with people directly at some point and determined that as far as I can tell Islands is a decent player and in some ways quite naive to the ways of politics. He also has a lot of potential to be a fair and good addition to any community because politeness and proactive approaches as well as collaboration matter to him. There are no OOC issues that NS players fear such as sexual harrassment or pedophilia. However, "security checks" have been conducted by alleged TSP "security people" as well. Just throwing out "we did security checks and its sketchy" without any actual evidence is the type of thing I will not accept particularly from this group of people.

In the case of Islands, since as recently as 10/12 these rumors about him being an alleged alt or other identity have been spread by Roavin himself without any evidence whatsoever to back them up. This is blatant fear mongering and meant to put an OOC issue (Islands is allegedly a alternate identity and therefore really bad) at the forefront of any conversation about him particularly through the backdoor shadow cabinets, control freak group's groupchats, and dms. The goal from the beginning is to "remove" Islands from TSP because as Roavin stated he thinks Islands is bad for the region. In what way? Well Roavin just doesn't like him. How was the "shadow cabinet" justified? Was it through "Islands is OOC sketchy and probably an alt?" because that type of gaslighting can't be fought without either Islands being forced to doxx himself or live with the allegations.

With TSP administration members using OOC allegations to get their political in game goals met, nothing that they say can be believed and moreso they don't even feel the need to substantiate anything they say because there are no consequences. Their much lauded solution to this issue is stop posting on NSGP so they don't have to face critiques.

Players keep telling me that Roavin disavows the TSP administration's use of OOC harrassment referencing to myself and Tim in private DMs. Shocking, right because he continues say whatever seems necessary in situations for him to hold onto whatever vestiges of power he can grab. Administration using two faced shady backdoor "say one thing publicly and another privately" for political aims is the kind of repulsive administration and gameplay that NSGP doesn't need. At least two admins have "explained" in private to other admin that their public TSP admin notice was "wrongly worded" or "misinterpreted" but they are continuing to stand by it publicly.

How long can players last in TSP when the administration is spreading rumors about them being "sketchy" and "obviously someone else" that continue, after months, to be unsubstantiated? Eventually the player gives up or in the case of TSP admin the admin will make up a reason for a politcal ban by using OOC reasons. "Is a shady alt" is being prepped as a reason for Islands for months now.

So how long can he last in this kind of hostile and demeaning environment? You tell me.
Last edited by Escade on Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Mojoland
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Mojoland » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:40 am

Escade wrote:... None of those rumors were ever substantiated (from months ago) and nor have been substantiated in any way but continue to be the basis for attack behind the scenes to this date.


Do you have evidence that these so-called attacks are currently occurring?

Escade wrote:Administration using two faced shady backdoor "say one thing publicly and another privately" for political aims is the kind of repulsive administration and gameplay that NSGP doesn't need.


I would appreciate it if you could be more detailed when making these scandalous claims. Simply saying that so-and-so has told me such-and-such and because of this, we should all be aghast at what I am claiming, lacks credibility given your past grievances with the very people you are attacking.

Escade wrote:So how long can he last in this kind of hostile and demeaning environment? You tell me.


If I recall correctly, the final tally from the recent Prime Ministerial election was 19-12 (Serres-Islands). If these so-called attacks were as effective and detrimental to Islands' standing in our community as you claim them to be, then one would reasonably expect the vote difference to be far greater.
Last edited by Mojoland on Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Escade
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Ex-Nation

Postby Escade » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:51 am

I think a player with barely three NSGP posts to their name should be asking their administration for evidence about their multiple false accusations. :roll:
Last edited by Escade on Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Mojoland
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Postby Mojoland » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:53 am

Escade wrote:I think a player with barely three NSGP posts to their name should be asking their administration for evidence about their false accusations. :roll:

Oh, I'm well aware of what transpired when you were in The South Pacific, having been in the region the entire time.

Edit: It's Amerion btw *waves at Escade*
Last edited by Mojoland on Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The Church of Satan
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Church of Satan » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:02 am

It seems to me that TSP government has become an "old boys club". Why not just get it over with and turn the region into a monarchy or dictatorship already instead of pretending to be a democracy? It's perfectly clear that nobody advances in the government without the say so of a select few. At least then there'd be some truth to the government.
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Mojoland
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Postby Mojoland » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:11 am

I wouldn't call it an Old Boy's Club. In fact, the current Minister of Regional Affairs, Pencil Sharpeners, has never served in an executive office before and was elected nearly unanimously.

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Escade
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Ex-Nation

Postby Escade » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:14 am

Mojoland wrote:
Escade wrote:I think a player with barely three NSGP posts to their name should be asking their administration for evidence about their false accusations. :roll:

Oh, I'm well aware of what transpired when you were in The South Pacific, having been in the region the entire time.

Edit: It's Amerion btw *waves at Escade*


It will be interesting to see you or anyone hold your administration or politicians accountable for anything stemming from any point in time for the past several months. Oh did TSP get fair and transparent moderation standards up? A system that punishes anyone for their misbehaviors regardless of their clique or role?

Again let me know when you have evidence of anything from OOC harrassment to Islands being a sketchy alt. I'm actually going to quote Souls from the relevant Discord conversation:

TSP really likes this thing these days where someone is a security risk but the evidence is just so special that only Glen and Roavin get to see it, not even the cabinet. But the cabinet needs to act on it. The CRS doesn’t act on it itself, or use its power to issue proscriptions. Meanwhile, in my case, even their own court didnt consider the evidence sufficient to back anything. And it wasn’t enough to keep IOU off cabinet. Just out of the shadow cabinet. Which had Roavin in it instead.


Those who are admin or have approached me or know why this was brought up have all the evidence that's needed or have provided it themselves. Any admin or players interested in actual accountability know where and how to contact me.

The two facedness of TSP admin means that there won't be any public retractions or apologies or any justice from either the administration who used OOC bans to further themselves politically or the players who were allowed to submit "testimony" without evidence to eliminate the political rivals who made them insecure. That's the key point here - they used OOC bans to push their political goals. They could have just as well used in game mechanisms (of course that require more proof) to accomplish the same goals whether it was with me, Tim, or Souls but chose to try an underhanded method instead.

This same player group is given special protections and cries "criticism is toxic, I'm having mental health issues now and can't play the game" when they are asked about their laziness or incompetence but seem to be fine with those not in their friend groups are put through the same thing. Is harsh criticism of Islands fair? Sure, then it should be fair for everyone. The double standards and foul play is really ridiculous as well as the constant playing the victim card.

As I said, nothing worth salvaging in TSP since no one can do anything about the administration.

While individual people like PS2 have shown both competence and are on a more even keel, one person changing a bad system is putting a lot of pressure on those few individuals who are working within a flawed system.
Last edited by Escade on Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

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The Church of Satan
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Church of Satan » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:05 am

Mojoland wrote:I wouldn't call it an Old Boy's Club. In fact, the current Minister of Regional Affairs, Pencil Sharpeners, has never served in an executive office before and was elected nearly unanimously.

Maybe so but nobody gets in if TSPs elite don't like their policies. Should I call it Oceania instead? TSP most certainly has a sort of thought police always ready to ensure that only their preferred candidates get in.
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Roavin
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Postby Roavin » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:54 am

The Church of Satan wrote:
Mojoland wrote:I wouldn't call it an Old Boy's Club. In fact, the current Minister of Regional Affairs, Pencil Sharpeners, has never served in an executive office before and was elected nearly unanimously.

Maybe so but nobody gets in if TSPs elite don't like their policies. Should I call it Oceania instead? TSP most certainly has a sort of thought police always ready to ensure that only their preferred candidates get in.


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RoavinMinister of Military Affairs in the South Pacific

“Better die a Cormac than live an Onder.”

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