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North Prarie
Diplomat
 
Posts: 932
Founded: Nov 04, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby North Prarie » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:02 pm

Escade wrote:
3. One of the players talking in this thread on the admin side, North Prarie, stated he needed a LoA for his mental health because he was losing the election. He also implied that if he lost the election he would quit\leave TSP. I'm not sure what players are expected to do? Vote for players because the player threatens to ragequit or otherwise tries to get pity votes? He also stated that players, like myself, who didn't vote for him "had no remorse." NSGP already is familiar with the plethora of players who misuse OOC. See that first sentence for some names. Let's not forget North Prarie supported Tim and Tim's questioning methods of his opponent for a good while and even voted Tim for delegate before doing a 360.



No, that's not what happened.
1. I took a LoA during that election because I was overstressing myself about it, because I thought I was letting people down. It was to the point where I was stressing about these things, coupled with previous stuff in my life, that I started inflicting physical harm upon myself. At that point I decided that it was too much, and that's why I took it. It was not a strategy to swing voters.
2. I didn't say that people who didn't vote for me had no remorse about the subject, in fact, many people on the ither side were checking if I was OK and were supporting me. I said *you* seemed to have no remorse because the way you came off to me was "oh, haha, what a baby, he's a wimp." I'm not expecting you to completely get behind me, but the way you were coming off was rude too me. I'm sorry if that is not the case.
I have screenshots to prove you're streching your statement.
3. I supported Tim in January, a full 7 months before that election. And he was my 2nd choice in the primaries. Not my first. In fact, I had reffered Tim's name in the toxicity servey before the MoRA specials, and hadn't had a facorable opinion of him during that time.
4. I was caught up in the rush of the election and I was taking all support that I could get.

Mental health is an actual problem, not an excuse. It seems some people need to learn that.
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Escade
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1019
Founded: Apr 11, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Escade » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:39 pm

Escade wrote:Oh boy by that definition we have the following (and yes I have the DM evidence):
1. On July 18, 2018 Tsunamy let me know that he and the other admin had spoken to Roavin about his pinging of me or attempts to mention me by name or get involved in my conversations with other players.This was after I asked him to speak to Roavin to stop or cut down on the constant arguments and hostile atmosphere.
2. Since July 2018, Roavin - just in the TSP Legislator Lounge - has mentioned me directly 93 times. The last mention, that I know of, was to try to force me to answer his questions in which he let the lounge know that I was chatting on NSGP Discord instead of answering his questions. This was the weekend before I was summarily banned.

And at this point, I was out of the government for the last several months and simply a legislator (although I admit with enough influence to impact elections which is why I'm banned). If a legislator can be mentioned 93 times in a period of months then what scrutiny can a government official expect?

This also comes during and after a 48 hour ban in which the two factions (Roavin\Glenn) and myself and Tim were not to speak to each other. So there were at least two admin warnings\discussions for Roavin in this case. More notice than I or Tim have received about any of the alleged players involved in this conflict.

Is this an act of prolonged and targeted harassment? Is it simply IC politics? Spin the wheel and depending who does it the TSP admin will determine whether these repeated unwanted verbal contacts were "in good faith" or "psychological torture and harassment that requires therapy."



North Prarie wrote:
Escade wrote:
3. One of the players talking in this thread on the admin side, North Prarie, stated he needed a LoA for his mental health because he was losing the election. He also implied that if he lost the election he would quit\leave TSP. I'm not sure what players are expected to do? Vote for players because the player threatens to ragequit or otherwise tries to get pity votes? He also stated that players, like myself, who didn't vote for him "had no remorse." NSGP already is familiar with the plethora of players who misuse OOC. See that first sentence for some names. Let's not forget North Prarie supported Tim and Tim's questioning methods of his opponent for a good while and even voted Tim for delegate before doing a 360.



No, that's not what happened.
1. I took a LoA during that election because I was overstressing myself about it, because I thought I was letting people down. It was to the point where I was stressing about these things, coupled with previous stuff in my life, that I started inflicting physical harm upon myself. At that point I decided that it was too much, and that's why I took it. It was not a strategy to swing voters.
2. I didn't say that people who didn't vote for me had no remorse about the subject, in fact, many people on the ither side were checking if I was OK and were supporting me. I said *you* seemed to have no remorse because the way you came off to me was "oh, haha, what a baby, he's a wimp." I'm not expecting you to completely get behind me, but the way you were coming off was rude too me. I'm sorry if that is not the case.
I have screenshots to prove you're streching your statement.
3. I supported Tim in January, a full 7 months before that election. And he was my 2nd choice in the primaries. Not my first. In fact, I had reffered Tim's name in the toxicity servey before the MoRA specials, and hadn't had a facorable opinion of him during that time.
4. I was caught up in the rush of the election and I was taking all support that I could get.

Mental health is an actual problem, not an excuse. It seems some people need to learn that.


Actually, you are part of a series of players in TSP who have brought up mental health issues during elections or to justify other political actions and that is a real issue. TSP is not a community that is equipped to deal with mental health issues. It is not any players job, who is playing this game IC, to play therapist or deal with such issues as the majority of players are neither qualified to do so and because of the wide range of age\background\etc are more likely to do harm than good. There are resources to help players going through problems that are available on this site. I hope one of the people concerned about your issues referred you to some real help and that you took advantage of it.

Two players made the following statement when you very vaguely brought up your issues in public and via forums (not giving any of the above information but stating that the election results were what was upsetting you), "Maybe you shouldn't be playing this game if its affecting you like this." You ignored one player who made this statement (Vietnam) to focus on Tim for saying the same exact thing.

I avoided talking to you or interacting with you because I am not qualified to respond to mental health concerns and believe that no one in NS is and those issues should be dealt with in real life with qualified resources. Instead I focused on the candidate I was supporting and campaigned for him. You addressed me as having no remorse and some sort of example of toxicity because I chose not to do whatever it is you think I was obligated to do. I also do agree with Vietnam, Tim, and many others that players with mental health issues should get help outside of the game.

It does concern me that you fixated on Tim, who you supported along with Roavin and Somyrion, when they were attacking and criticizing your opponent and the winner of the election Islands. Islands in particular is an important example here as in the face of being accused of all sorts of things he tried to be polite, stay above the fray and focus on his goals in the region. He was treated in a highly negative manner. I wonder where your or anyone's sympathy or outrage over "toxicity" was then. Again we return to the same revolving door of "when your faction does it you ignore it and call it "IC or okay" and when the other side says the same thing you suddenly find it to be toxic.

At the end of the day, anyone with OOC issues arising from playing politics should take a break from the game that stresses them out, maybe focus on some other aspect, and find help outside of it. Those putting pressure on you to win at any cost also seem to be the culprits in this situation.

We all have seen how one player can use mental health issues to actually have an entire region, TNP, target and blame a player (in this case Imki) and attempt to falsely accuse that player of OOC bad behavior. NSGP knows of a history of such players and we know how dangerous they are. If there are genuine mental health issues we are empathetic and want those people to get help outside the game as NS is not and never will be therapy.
Last edited by Escade on Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RiderSyl
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6309
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:35 am

Glen-Rhodes wrote:
The Church of Satan wrote:Well Glen then what is harassment? Even you can't seem to come to a decision.


Glen-Rhodes wrote:
Definition of harass
harassed; harassing; harasses
transitive verb
b (2) : to create an unpleasant or hostile situation for especially by uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical conduct


Read? I think I've been pretty clear.


"To create an unpleasant or hostile situation for" is also the definition of "Glen-Rhodesing".
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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7113
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:43 am

malicious, soul-harming behaviors


I'm a malignant soul-crusher now. Amazing. :roll:

I'm afraid to tell you, Escade, but many of the people defending your case here also maintained private Discord conversations with me - including you. You started singing a different tune when you thought you could shamelessly pressure your political adversaries about their Discord server with me - and then you got called out for it.

The pure shamelessness of this exercise from you has gotten so damn old, it's developing liver spots and taking out an old age pension; rant about rant, you're continuing to blast anyone who has opposed you instead of taking responsibility for making TSP a miserable place for months - shielding yourself instead in martyrdom, conspiratorial nonsense, and whataboutisms. You're either oblivious to the shitty political and social environment you've fostered in the South Pacific - or you don't care, you see it as a means to an end. I suspect it's the latter.

Any region who is opening their arms to Escade should put aside their intellectual contempt for Glen-Rhodes etc. momentarily to question whether the forum administrators may actually have a point: you may not understand what kind of bullshit you're inviting to your region. To that end, I think it's very important that TSP forum administrators actually do get around to putting together a more comprehensive outline of why Escade and Tim were banned - because I fear regions, even TSP allies like TRR and TEP, may be welcoming trouble out of ignorance, stubbornness, or misplaced good will - trouble they're not necessarily prepared to handle. The original administrative response was written with TSPers in mind, I think; I know there's a lot of antipathy towards responding to what's perceived to be an outrageous peanut gallery here, but it may be important for Citizenship Councils and other forum administrators to know more precisely what went on in the South Pacific so that the South Pacific's allies don't become the political vehicle for a "revenge campaign" for Escade/Tim, which is predictably what's going to happen otherwise. You've all been warned. *two thumbs up, teeth braced anxiously*
Last edited by Unibot III on Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:50 am, edited 3 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
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Kurnugia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 941
Founded: Feb 21, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Kurnugia » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:59 am

Unibot III wrote:
Any region who is opening their arms to Escade should put aside their intellectual contempt for Glen-Rhodes etc. momentarily to question whether the forum administrators may actually have a point: you may not understand what kind of bullshit you're inviting to your region. To that end, I think it's very important that TSP forum administrators actually do get around to putting together a more comprehensive outline of why Escade and Tim were banned - because I fear regions, even TSP allies like TRR and TEP, may be welcoming trouble out of ignorance, stubbornness, or misplaced good will - trouble they're not necessarily prepared to handle.

Utter ignorance of TEP I see. We had cases over the last year that were nasty. We handled it however quite swiftly.

Also, Tim was in TEP. Left on his own accord.
Big Sister has always been Big Sister


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RiderSyl
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6309
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:04 am

Unibot, you're really quite invested in this for someone that claims to be a bystander.
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Canton Empire
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Posts: 4667
Founded: Mar 24, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Canton Empire » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:07 am

Unibot III wrote:
malicious, soul-harming behaviors


I'm a malignant soul-crusher now. Amazing. :roll:

I'm afraid to tell you, Escade, but many of the people defending your case here also maintained private Discord conversations with me - including you. You started singing a different tune when you thought you could shamelessly pressure your political adversaries about their Discord server with me - and then you got called out for it.

The pure shamelessness of this exercise from you has gotten so damn old, it's developing liver spots and taking out an old age pension; rant about rant, you're continuing to blast anyone who has opposed you instead of taking responsibility for making TSP a miserable place for months - shielding yourself instead in martyrdom, conspiratorial nonsense, and whataboutisms. You're either oblivious to the shitty political and social environment you've fostered in the South Pacific - or you don't care, you see it as a means to an end. I suspect it's the latter.

Any region who is opening their arms to Escade should put aside their intellectual contempt for Glen-Rhodes etc. momentarily to question whether the forum administrators may actually have a point: you may not understand what kind of bullshit you're inviting to your region. To that end, I think it's very important that TSP forum administrators actually do get around to putting together a more comprehensive outline of why Escade and Tim were banned - because I fear regions, even TSP allies like TRR and TEP, may be welcoming trouble out of ignorance, stubbornness, or misplaced good will - trouble they're not necessarily prepared to handle. The original administrative response was written with TSPers in mind, I think; I know there's a lot of antipathy towards responding to what's perceived to be an outrageous peanut gallery here, but it may be important for Citizenship Councils and other forum administrators to know more precisely what went on in the South Pacific so that the South Pacific's allies don't become the political vehicle for a "revenge campaign" for Escade/Tim, which is predictably what's going to happen otherwise. You've all been warned. *two thumbs up, teeth braced anxiously*

How do you know the state of TSP if you are banned from there?
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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7113
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:10 am

Kurnugia wrote:Utter ignorance of TEP I see. We had cases over the last year that were nasty. We handled it however quite swiftly.


That's definitely true about Tim and your past year. I just think the next step is obvious for Escade/Tim: motivated by revenge, they're going to get involved in regions that can put pressure on TSP ; these host regions and their communities are going to be used as a means to the end. Allies of the South Pacific, especially, should get a comprehensive head's up of what to expect.

Unibot, you're really quite invested in this for someone that claims to be a bystander.


Syl, Escade is literally using me as the central basis of her defense and her demonization of several TSP players - look at her posts for reference. I have an obligation to respond for as long as she continues to invoke me as a bogeyman against people that I respect and a community that I formerly considered home.

How do you know the state of TSP if you are banned from there?


I listen.
Last edited by Unibot III on Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
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RiderSyl
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Posts: 6309
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:13 am

Unibot III wrote:Syl, Escade is literally using me as the central basis of her defense and her demonization of several TSP players - look at her posts for reference. I have an obligation to respond for as long as she continues to invoke me as a bogeyman against people that I respect and a community that I formerly considered home.

How do you know the state of TSP if you are banned from there?


I listen.


All you're doing is giving her claims legitimacy when you make posts like this. Seriously. Try to think for just a moment about how you're coming across. It looks like what she's saying is true.
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Kurnugia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 941
Founded: Feb 21, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Kurnugia » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:04 am

Unibot III wrote:
That's definitely true about Tim and your past year. I just think the next step is obvious for Escade/Tim: motivated by revenge, they're going to get involved in regions that can put pressure on TSP ; these host regions and their communities are going to be used as a means to the end. Allies of the South Pacific, especially, should get a comprehensive head's up of what to expect.

Well the blasé attitude expressed by certain TSPer certainly doesn't help TSP's standing.
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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7113
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:58 am

RiderSyl wrote:
Unibot III wrote:Syl, Escade is literally using me as the central basis of her defense and her demonization of several TSP players - look at her posts for reference. I have an obligation to respond for as long as she continues to invoke me as a bogeyman against people that I respect and a community that I formerly considered home.



I listen.


All you're doing is giving her claims legitimacy when you make posts like this. Seriously. Try to think for just a moment about how you're coming across. It looks like what she's saying is true.


Well, I think that's always an active and present concern of mine. I have the advantage however of knowing who else maintains private discussions with me over Discord. Having looked over who has contributed here in this thread, I've made the calculation that my presence couldn't hurt TSP's case overall. I wouldn't speak here if I felt otherwise.

Ultimately, anyone who knows me knows that if someone was using me to get at friends, or colleagues, or regions I've contributed to, I would forcefully respond out of responsibility and obligation. Alas, on my RL desk is a picture of Bobby Kennedy. Bobby reminds me that in politics, don't get mad, get even. If you're going to make the mistake of invoking me as a bogeyman to attack people and undermine an administration, you better be prepared to defend your own actions and your own hypocrisy to me to my face. So far Escade has not been willing to do that, because she has absolutely no shame and no intention to own up to what a goddamn mess of a personal political drama she has co-perpetrated in the South Pacific.

Over the past few months, I've listened and overheard friends and former colleagues who have been genuinely distressed, frustrated, and disillusioned at the state of the South Pacific as a direct result of Escade and Tim.

I'm especially concerned that the South Pacific's allies are going to be preyed upon as hosts to a narcissism-fueled revenge campaign - and that they may accept this development unknowingly and misguidedly. For instance, I'm still a reject, I still care about what happens to the Rejected Realms, and I helped to build the diplomatic relationship between TSP and TRR from the ground up. I don't want to see what happened in TSP, happen in TRR and I don't want to see their most important alliance (mutually so) blown out of the sky for some wanton, revengeful ego project. I hope other rejects put aside disagreements they have with Glen-Rhodes and others to listen to the administrator's case against the individuals involved.

Kurnugia wrote:
Unibot III wrote:
That's definitely true about Tim and your past year. I just think the next step is obvious for Escade/Tim: motivated by revenge, they're going to get involved in regions that can put pressure on TSP ; these host regions and their communities are going to be used as a means to the end. Allies of the South Pacific, especially, should get a comprehensive head's up of what to expect.

Well the blasé attitude expressed by certain TSPer certainly doesn't help TSP's standing.


I think what's being interpreted as blasé here is actually antipathy towards NS Gameplay, in addition to political and social exhaustion with NS. Most TSPers just wanted the madness to end. It's ended finally. And they don't really have a lot of energy left after that struggle to defend its conclusion to people whom they're not sure are speaking out ingenuously or disingenuously.

It is important though, I think, that TSP's allies are given enough information to make decisions regarding the acceptance of Escade and Tim.
Last edited by Unibot III on Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:04 am, edited 6 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25-05-2008 | Former Delegate of TRR

Factbook // Collected works // Gameplay Alignment Test //
9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Headlines from Unibot // WASC HQ: A Guide

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The Church of Satan
Minister
 
Posts: 2193
Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Church of Satan » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:29 am

Unibot III wrote:Over the past few months, I've listened and overheard friends and former colleagues who have been genuinely distressed, frustrated, and disillusioned at the state of the South Pacific as a direct result of Escade and Tim.

You know Glen better than I do. You know TSP better than I do. You know that Glen has done far worse in TSP and has spent a lot of time chasing people out of the region. Years even. You were there for a lot of it. How can you completely ignore that even now? How can you not even acknowledge it knowing that you can face no consequences for it? A luxury that nobody in TSP has?
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Ever-Wandering Souls
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Posts: 7272
Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:31 am

The Church of Satan wrote:
Unibot III wrote:Over the past few months, I've listened and overheard friends and former colleagues who have been genuinely distressed, frustrated, and disillusioned at the state of the South Pacific as a direct result of Escade and Tim.

You know Glen better than I do. You know TSP better than I do. You know that Glen has done far worse in TSP and has spent a lot of time chasing people out of the region. Years even. You were there for a lot of it. How can you completely ignore that even now? How can you not even acknowledge it knowing that you can face no consequences for it? A luxury that nobody in TSP has?


Well, see, the mistake you're making is expecting anywhere near that much actual morality from Unibot.
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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7113
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:10 pm

The Church of Satan wrote:
Unibot III wrote:Over the past few months, I've listened and overheard friends and former colleagues who have been genuinely distressed, frustrated, and disillusioned at the state of the South Pacific as a direct result of Escade and Tim.

You know Glen better than I do. You know TSP better than I do. You know that Glen has done far worse in TSP and has spent a lot of time chasing people out of the region. Years even. You were there for a lot of it. How can you completely ignore that even now? How can you not even acknowledge it knowing that you can face no consequences for it? A luxury that nobody in TSP has?


It depends on what you mean "chasing people out of the region," Church. If you mean deliberately flamebaiting or creating such a crappy environment for players that they feel compelled to leave as a strategy, no that's not behaviour that I've come to expect from GR. He has a personality and a debating style that can be cantankerous and difficult, but he rarely runs afoul of moderation rules. He's been TSP admin that responded here the most, not because he was most central to Timscade decision, but because he's the only one with the energy to defend a case doggedly.

If you say "chasing people out of the region," as in using and influencing legitimate uses of executive authority to remove troublemakers from TSP, Glen-Rhodes most certainly has done this - and so have I have. We often did it as a team prior to my ban. And I have no regrets about that. The Empire, the BLT crowd, and Evil Wolf et. al. are some of the people that we worked towards removing from TSP and we did so because they sought to undermine TSP's democracy; we always went to bat for the South Pacific, its interests, its community, and its constitutional liberal democracy. You can only re-amend and re-amend the constitution so much before you realize that the problem with fostering a functional democracy isn't the law book but bad faith actors abusing the system. It took people with some backbone to stand up to those people. The Timscade scenerio is a bit like those past cases, but more extreme and crossed IC/OOC lines even more those ones did - to the extent that administrators were obligated to step in.

I don't know much about the 2015 TAC judicial scandal which I'm being told you're referencing; I think I may have been backpacking in Europe at the time, but I'm willing to do some digging into it. What you're describing isn't the person that I've come to know for the past decade - which is a straight-shooter through and through who plays within the rules and stands up for TSP and democratic principles. I also urge you not to let past experiences from 2015, colour your impression of what is a very real crisis that the South Pacific has just faced.

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
The Church of Satan wrote:You know Glen better than I do. You know TSP better than I do. You know that Glen has done far worse in TSP and has spent a lot of time chasing people out of the region. Years even. You were there for a lot of it. How can you completely ignore that even now? How can you not even acknowledge it knowing that you can face no consequences for it? A luxury that nobody in TSP has?


Well, see, the mistake you're making is expecting anywhere near that much actual morality from Unibot.


I don't know you and don't pretend to, so I don't know why you think you know me so well.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
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Cosmopolitan borovan
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Founded: Jan 18, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Cosmopolitan borovan » Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:11 pm

Gameplayers arueing back and forth. There is kind of a evil thing lurking around drawing in this attention and temption invite in this discussion.

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Ever-Wandering Souls
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Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:53 pm

Look, you can wall away all you want about how TSP absolutely needed to get rid of Escade and Tim, and for the most part, I think folks are pretty open to hearing it - this does not change the fact that TSP's admin team either needs to back accusations of harassment properly, or stop calling it harassment. That is the biggest problem, and you of all people mirroring the deflections of Glen and others isn't exactly helping their cases.
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The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
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Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

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Glen-Rhodes
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Founded: Jun 25, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:25 pm

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:Look, you can wall away all you want about how TSP absolutely needed to get rid of Escade and Tim, and for the most part, I think folks are pretty open to hearing it - this does not change the fact that TSP's admin team either needs to back accusations of harassment properly, or stop calling it harassment. That is the biggest problem, and you of all people mirroring the deflections of Glen and others isn't exactly helping their cases.


This clearly isn’t your actual motivation. I’ve written at least 1,000 words explaining it, and you’re still falling back to “they’ve accused Tim and Escade of serious OOC harassment and can’t prove it.”

I stopped using the word “harassment” briefly, and was promptly attacked for using the long form description of “long-term targeted flaming and baiting of specific people.” So the word (that you know isn’t being used the way you say it is) doesn’t seem to mean much in the grand scheme of things. After all, you still haven’t written to the NS admins and asked them to redefine NS’s own harassment rule. Or am I missing that discussion thread??

TSP is doing what we believe is right. We’re in contact with those who haven’t had a vendetta long before this. And we’re compiling a dossier that will shared with those regional admins that have contacted us, rather than those who have spent this whole time in this thread bloviating, misrepresenting what the bans are about, and dismissing those affected.

Does it need to be repeated 100 more times? Or can we finally go into our separate corners, knowing full well that there’s approximately nothing that is going to change your mind? (After all, if you’re not going to believe the numerous posts by people *actually affected* by Escade and Tim, I’m not sure why you’re going to believe Roavin, Kris, or myself, who you’ve been attacking for a plethora of unrelated things, sometimes for months now...)
Last edited by Glen-Rhodes on Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unibot III
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:30 pm

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:Look, you can wall away all you want about how TSP absolutely needed to get rid of Escade and Tim, and for the most part, I think folks are pretty open to hearing it - this does not change the fact that TSP's admin team either needs to back accusations of harassment properly, or stop calling it harassment. That is the biggest problem, and you of all people mirroring the deflections of Glen and others isn't exactly helping their cases.


I agree that the administrators need to hear more from TSP about the drama (although not necessarily in this thread) that's gone on to prevent this episode from continuing elsewhere, I don't agree that I should remain silent when Escade is using me as a bogeyman to attack the people who took legitimate administrative action against her.

If people don't want to hear more from me (entirely understandable), said people should advise Escade to stop invoking me to attack TSP - it's not as though it's a good strategy when 75% of the people here also maintain private conversations with me (as did Escade herself!). I've always stuck to my guns and I'm always loyal to my friends. I've also always sought to clean up my own messes - if some people want to drag me into this, I'm going to drag them right back with a vengeance. I wasn't involved in the Timscade decision, but I'll be damned if it's dropped on my accord.

Tim and Escade have bet the house on the weak spot of the administration and the government being a personal relation to me. If someone tries to use me as their wrench back into a region they've tried to screw up, I'm not going to let them accomplish that on account of my crappy reputation.
Last edited by Unibot III on Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25-05-2008 | Former Delegate of TRR

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Canton Empire
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Posts: 4667
Founded: Mar 24, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Canton Empire » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:48 pm

Unibot III wrote:
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:Look, you can wall away all you want about how TSP absolutely needed to get rid of Escade and Tim, and for the most part, I think folks are pretty open to hearing it - this does not change the fact that TSP's admin team either needs to back accusations of harassment properly, or stop calling it harassment. That is the biggest problem, and you of all people mirroring the deflections of Glen and others isn't exactly helping their cases.


I agree that the administrators need to hear more from TSP about the drama (although not necessarily in this thread) that's gone on to prevent this episode from continuing elsewhere, I don't agree that I should remain silent when Escade is using me as a bogeyman to attack the people who took administrative action against her.

If people don't want to hear more from me (entirely understandable), said people should advise Escade to stop invoking me to attack TSP - it's not as though it's a good strategy when 75% of the people here also maintain private conversations with me (as did Escade herself!). I've always stuck to my guns and I'm always loyal to my friends. I've also always sought to clean up my own messes - if some people want to drag me into this, I'm going to drag them right back. I wasn't involved in the Timscade decision, but I'll be damned if it's dropped on my accord.

Tim and Escade have bet the house on the weak spot of the administration and the government being a personal relation to me. If someone tries to use me as their wrench back into a region they've tried to screw up, I'm not going to let them accomplish that on account of my crappy reputation.

It is important to note that this was an issue before either of them were banned.
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Unibot III
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Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:12 pm

Canton Empire wrote:It is important to note that this was an issue before either of them were banned.


It's just convenient now for them. And when they tried to use it against Glen, they were embarrassed when it turns out Escade also maintained friendly, amicable Discord chats with me which included such dialogue as "Yeah I'm not publicly trying [to defend you, Unibot] because the reaction is 'Escade is part of a cult' or worse, I just don't like the people which keep framing everythign that way. And I talked to Kris about your TSP ban which was unfair." (02/13/2017) and "I feel like we all make mistakes but can recover from them." (02/13/2017)

This coming from the same person who tried to slander the site administrators for continuing to speak with me in private (!!!). It was sheer and pathetic hypocrisy and the lowest form of political opportunism; Escade was utterly wrong to think I wouldn't bark back when she thought she had a friend of mine on the ropes for doing something she did too. Of course I was going to respond. Nobody does that to a friend of mine and gets away with it. Nobody.
Last edited by Unibot III on Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25-05-2008 | Former Delegate of TRR

Factbook // Collected works // Gameplay Alignment Test //
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Tim-Opolis
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Founded: Feb 17, 2010
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Postby Tim-Opolis » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:26 pm

Unibot III wrote:
malicious, soul-harming behaviors


I'm a malignant soul-crusher now. Amazing. :roll:


Given what has made you unwelcome in the Gameplay community, I think it's a pretty accurate depiction of you.

I've also always sought to clean up my own messes


Really? From what I hear, you just try to claim you got hacked :roll:
Last edited by Tim-Opolis on Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Cosmopolitan borovan
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Ex-Nation

Postby Cosmopolitan borovan » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:45 pm

yes very funny hehe

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Unibot III
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Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:45 pm

Tim-Opolis wrote:Really? From what I hear, you just try to claim you got hacked :roll:


For months now, I've honoured a request not to discuss details of that conversation or the fact that it occurred, with anyone; I'll continue to do so.

In short: No, I don't believe I was hacked. And I have tried my hardest to make amends for my mistakes.
Last edited by Unibot III on Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25-05-2008 | Former Delegate of TRR

Factbook // Collected works // Gameplay Alignment Test //
9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Headlines from Unibot // WASC HQ: A Guide

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Tim-Opolis
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Founded: Feb 17, 2010
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Tim-Opolis » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:49 pm

Unibot III wrote:And I have tried my hardest to make amends for my mistakes.


You're still trying to participate in the game aren't you? Clearly you didn't try your hardest.

Unibot III wrote:In short: No, I don't believe I was hacked.


Your follow-up blame-dodging claim wasn't much better.
Last edited by Tim-Opolis on Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Want to be a hero? Join The Grey Wardens - Help Us Save Nationstates
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Founder of Spiritus | Three-Time Delegate of Osiris | Pharaoh of the Islamic Republics of Iran | Hero of Greece
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Unibot III
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Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:01 pm

Tim-Opolis wrote:You're still trying to participate in the game aren't you? Clearly you didn't try your hardest.


The issue was never that I played NationStates, the issue was how I interacted on it, Tim. I don't really have much interest in returning to NationStates as an active player at all, but I have sincerely wanted to learn from past mistakes and it's something that has had a deep impact on me in how I see relationships, personal conduct, and personal responsibility.

I won't sit by idly and watch you and Escade continue to hound people even remotely in my orbit like you're Joe McCarthy; they're my mistakes, not theirs. If you want to attack me, attack me - not my friends. I'm not letting them shoulder my mistakes and I'm not letting you and Escade try to excuse your own mistakes in the South Pacific by invoking my name and reputation.
Last edited by Unibot III on Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25-05-2008 | Former Delegate of TRR

Factbook // Collected works // Gameplay Alignment Test //
9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Headlines from Unibot // WASC HQ: A Guide

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✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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