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TSP Foreign Office
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 60
Founded: Jul 18, 2016
New York Times Democracy

Postby TSP Foreign Office » Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:27 pm

PRESS RELEASE


Image

STATEMENT ON THE NORTH PACIFIC'S ACCUSATION OF SANCTIONING FASCISM

25 JANUARY 2021

Fellow South Pacificans and friends abroad,

The Cabinet of the South Pacific is dismayed and disappointed in the recent statement released by the Delegate of The North Pacific, McMasterdonia, regarding multilateral defensive military operations that impacted the North Pacific Army’s raids. In particular, the South Pacific government vigorously objects to TNP’s accusation that we have, in any way, “sanctioned activities that have ultimately aided the causes of fascism.”

This bombastic statement can do nothing but strain relations between long-time allies. The South Pacific prides itself on having one of the strictest moderation policies covering hateful and extremist political and ideological views among off-site communities in NationStates. Furthermore, neither the South Pacific Special Forces nor any other defender military that is part of the Libcord cooperative defended any fascist region. Neither did our Delegate approve of or support the repeal of the Liberation of the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators in the Security Council.

The North Pacific chose to invade innocent regions whose Delegates provided approvals for the proposed repeal of that Liberation resolution so that they could erase the approval and deny the repeal quorum. That is The North Pacific’s sovereign prerogative. However, in reality, it is likely that those regions had no idea of CCD’s history or that the Liberation was not accurate when first approving of it. Most players are not highly “plugged in” to the Gameplay community.

Unless The North Pacific can definitively prove that each and every region they invaded was pro-fascist, the South Pacific must go into military operations assuming those raids to be against innocent regions. Of note, one of the regions raided was the Renegade Islands Alliance, a defender partner of TSP’s that has participated in anti-fascist operations. As a defender region, we will of course defend them.

If The North Pacific wishes to engage in quorum raiding without opposition from The South Pacific community, there are some common-sense guidelines they can employ. First, any region subject to a raid should be shown to be pro-fascist, not merely labeled as such due to an approval of a Security Council resolution. Second, the North Pacific Army should notify the South Pacific Special Forces of planned quorum raids against pro-fascist regions supporting a pro-fascist Security Council resolution. These guidelines would help ensure that innocent regions are protected from attack simply for approving a resolution-- something many regions do without a second thought.

Unfortunately, this breach of diplomacy was further compounded by the Delegate of The North Pacific doubling-down when the Prime Minister of the South Pacific, Penguin, reached out to express dismay at being labeled as sanctioning fascism; upon outreach by our Minister of Foreign Affairs Omega to his counterpart, the reaction was just as obdurate. Our demand to retract this heated accusation was met with staunch refusal. In response, we must regrettably postpone the planned festival celebrating the anniversary of the Aurora Alliance treaty, and we will consult with the Assembly on further steps to take. We hope that the Delegate of The North Pacific will reconsider as soon as possible. The North Pacific must respect our efforts to uphold the defender principles laid out by the Assembly of the Coalition, and not insult those principles by saying that they "sanction fascism."

Faithfully yours,
The Cabinet


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RiderSyl
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Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:43 pm

To add, I feel like a memo was missed somewhere on what's gone on with CCD lately. Several months ago, CCD purged its ranks of fascists, closed embassies with fascist regions, and started conducting their own little antifascist infiltrations on their former pals. I can understand TNP wanting to reject CCD's redemption arc, with how CCD breached TNP sovereignty a while back, but trying to behave as though CCD is still fash and in need of the bash is just not based in reality.
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Bobberino
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Postby Bobberino » Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:23 pm

RiderSyl wrote:To add, I feel like a memo was missed somewhere on what's gone on with CCD lately. Several months ago, CCD purged its ranks of fascists, closed embassies with fascist regions, and started conducting their own little antifascist infiltrations on their former pals. I can understand TNP wanting to reject CCD's redemption arc, with how CCD breached TNP sovereignty a while back, but trying to behave as though CCD is still fash and in need of the bash is just not based in reality.


Then how do you explain these https://imgur.com/a/BTjWA3U images, from December 12th? This is an official government dispatch suppressing an independent project from a CCDer to identify remaining fascist elements within the region. Pretty damning if you ask me. I'd like to see some definitive proof of them having 'purged their ranks of fascists', particularly if they are going to go to these lengths to cover up potential fascist elements within the region.
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RiderSyl
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Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:51 pm

Bobberino wrote:Then how do you explain these https://imgur.com/a/BTjWA3U images, from December 12th? This is an official government dispatch suppressing an independent project from a CCDer to identify remaining fascist elements within the region.

The CCD already has an official channel for reporting fascist elements. Having a random native starting up their own project is counterproductive. Describing this as "quashing attempts by natives to identify real fascists and nazis from the region" is either dishonest or a critical research failure.

Bobberino wrote:I'd like to see some definitive proof of them having 'purged their ranks of fascists', particularly if they are going to go to these lengths to cover up potential fascist elements within the region.

https://nationstates.news/ccd-condemns- ... cism/2952/

Or maybe NSToday was just "sanctioning fascism" too!

Honestly, I came down on TSP's manufactured outrage about the sovereignty stuff, and I'm coming down on TNP's bullshit labeling of CCD as currently-fash. TNP could have said "We quorum raided the repeal because CCD's Operation 84 nonsense" and it would have all been fine (and would've been sweet karmic justice as well).
Last edited by RiderSyl on Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:57 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Varanius
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Founded: Sep 18, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Varanius » Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:23 am

RiderSyl wrote:
Bobberino wrote:Then how do you explain these https://imgur.com/a/BTjWA3U images, from December 12th? This is an official government dispatch suppressing an independent project from a CCDer to identify remaining fascist elements within the region.

The CCD already has an official channel for reporting fascist elements. Having a random native starting up their own project is counterproductive. Describing this as "quashing attempts by natives to identify real fascists and nazis from the region" is either dishonest or a critical research failure.

Bobberino wrote:I'd like to see some definitive proof of them having 'purged their ranks of fascists', particularly if they are going to go to these lengths to cover up potential fascist elements within the region.

https://nationstates.news/ccd-condemns- ... cism/2952/

Or maybe NSToday was just "sanctioning fascism" too!

Honestly, I came down on TSP's manufactured outrage about the sovereignty stuff, and I'm coming down on TNP's bullshit labeling of CCD as currently-fash. TNP could have said "We quorum raided the repeal because CCD's Operation 84 nonsense" and it would have all been fine (and would've been sweet karmic justice as well).

Hello Syl, author of that article here. I’d like to specify that the article in question is not in any way a piece of investigative writing, nor is it anything that would prove or disprove the prevalence of fascism within CCD. It’s more or less a TL;DR of dispatches from CCD, and using it to prove anything is more or less taking them at their word in that regard. Whether their word is conclusive evidence is up to the individual, but that’s essentially all this is. Have a nice day :)
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The Church of Satan
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Church of Satan » Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:30 am

Hey now, those North pacific clowns raided the RIA!? Are they labeling the RIA as fascists!? The NPA's intel must be faulty. Same for their history books. The RIA may not be active anymore but it has never been fascist in any way, shape, or form. They spend most of their time roleplaying on discord these days. All they had to do was contact the delegate and this mess would not have been necessary.
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The Notorious Mad Jack
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Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:16 am

The Church of Satan wrote:Hey now, those North pacific clowns raided the RIA!? Are they labeling the RIA as fascists!? The NPA's intel must be faulty. Same for their history books. The RIA may not be active anymore but it has never been fascist in any way, shape, or form. They spend most of their time roleplaying on discord these days. All they had to do was contact the delegate and this mess would not have been necessary.

Hello, TNP Minister of Culture here making no form of official statement or anything, but we've not labelled anyone as fascists at any point and nor are we unaware of RIA's history. For further clarification of what we have already said, please see our initial statement here, and be on the look out for a later statement from TNP in response to TSP. Any questions feel free to reach out to myself or more appropriately our Minister of Foreign Affairs or our Delegate. Cheers.
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The Church of Satan
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Church of Satan » Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:34 am

The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:Hello, TNP Minister of Culture here making no form of official statement or anything, but we've not labelled anyone as fascists at any point and nor are we unaware of RIA's history. For further clarification of what we have already said, please see our initial statement here, and be on the look out for a later statement from TNP in response to TSP. Any questions feel free to reach out to myself or more appropriately our Minister of Foreign Affairs or our Delegate. Cheers.

Allow me save all three of you some time; the name of the founder should be all you need to know. Look again, because it says Shizensky. I'd be surprised if Mcmasterdonia wasn't aware of the RIA's history as a once large defender region. He should have known that a quick ping on Discord or a brief telegram was all it would take to get them to change their vote on that resolution.
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Chanku: This isn't an election it's an assault on the eyes. | Ikania: Hear! The Gospel of... Satan. Erh...
Yuno: Not gonna yell, but CoS is one of the best delegates ever | Ever-Wandering Souls: In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

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Witchcraft and Sorcery
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Founded: Feb 01, 2013
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Witchcraft and Sorcery » Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:20 am

As the one who commanded the initial update operation, I am incredibly grateful to my region's government for their full-throated support and continued commitment to the principles of sovereignty and self-determination we fought so hard to implement in 2019.

Quorum raiding is one of the most despicable and anti-democratic practices that exists. I commend the cause of anti-fascism; fascists are a blight and a stain on the world and the institutions of this game. But quorum raiding, especially quorum raiding regions that were not fascist nor known for giving aid and comfort to fascists, sets a dangerous precedent that any and all with the means can simply subvert the World Assembly to their will. I'm especially disappointed in TNP, the region with far and away the most voting power in the World Assembly, for choosing to stoop to this tactic. For a democratic region no less, I hoped they would have some respect for the sanctity of that fundamental right to vote. The resolution would certainly have died on the floor; the fact that they felt it was necessary to do this speaks to insufficient or ineffective campaign efforts toward regional delegates.

So I will say the following as the officer in charge at update: had I seen that the NPA were hitting fascist-tagged or known fascist-sympathizing regions, I would have ordered troops to retreat. But they chose to indiscriminately target regions like North Pacific (one of the three founding members of the Founderless Regions Alliance) and the Renegade Islands Alliance. Further, every defender that participated did so freely, of their own volition, and with full knowledge of the resolution that was being quorum raided. I made sure this was communicated clearly and completely, and that participation was likely to ruffle some feathers.

My stance on quorum raiding remains the same and I will continue, as long as I am active, to fight against it, whatever the proposal or blowback it may cause. The support in this case is encouraging and I thank all the regions and officials who have offered their support and committed to a strong stance against this practice in the last several days.
Last edited by Witchcraft and Sorcery on Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Comfed
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Postby Comfed » Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:27 am

It’s sad to see that TSP opposed operations against a region that has violated their ally’s sovereignty, poached its WA members, and been and quite possibly still is a fascist region, all for the sake of defender moralism.

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Unibot III
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:46 am

Comfed wrote:It’s sad to see that TSP opposed operations against a region that has violated their ally’s sovereignty, poached its WA members, and been and quite possibly still is a fascist region, all for the sake of defender moralism.


The operation was against innocent regions.
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Comfed
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Postby Comfed » Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:48 am

Unibot III wrote:
Comfed wrote:It’s sad to see that TSP opposed operations against a region that has violated their ally’s sovereignty, poached its WA members, and been and quite possibly still is a fascist region, all for the sake of defender moralism.


The operation was against innocent regions.

They didn’t have a delegate for, what, half a day? And it most certainly was against the CCD, specifically their deceptive SC proposal.
Last edited by Comfed on Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:54 am

Comfed wrote:
Unibot III wrote:
The operation was against innocent regions.

They didn’t have a delegate for, what, half a day? And it most certainly was against the CCD, specifically their deceptive SC proposal.


The regions impacted are the ones that were invaded.
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Drop Your Pants
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Postby Drop Your Pants » Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:18 am

I think it's more funny that Sedge isn't getting an earful, he also approved it. Suppose TNP still has some sense not to go off on a rant at 2 Game Mods :P
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The Notorious Mad Jack
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Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:35 am

Drop Your Pants wrote:I think it's more funny that Sedge isn't getting an earful, he also approved it. Suppose TNP still has some sense not to go off on a rant at 2 Game Mods :P

We did quorum raid his region. :P
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Sedgistan
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Anarchy

Postby Sedgistan » Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:50 am

I pinned a dispatch in the Moon a couple of days beforehand, which said I wasn't really bothered about being quorum raided - it's happened before, and isn't a great inconvenience to me.

That said, I disagree with TNP's stated reasoning for the actions - they'd have more legs to stand on if they'd justified it as retaliation for CCD's farcical intel attempts against TNP last year - everyone can appreciate a good bit of revenge served cold. CCD has made an effort to right some of its (many) wrongs over the last few months, and while I get treating them with suspicion, completely disregarding any of the progress they have made does no favours to the anti-fascist cause. Players and communities can change their outlook, and continuing to beat them with the Liberation/ostracisation stick whilst refusing to even entertain the carrot of no longer treating them as fascist identifiers, is not conducive to encouraging others to change their ways.

Trying to make TSP feel bad for sticking to its well-known principles of defending non-fascist regions (including regions that were historically anti-fascist) is just silly.

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Crazy girl
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Postby Crazy girl » Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:53 am

The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:
Drop Your Pants wrote:I think it's more funny that Sedge isn't getting an earful, he also approved it. Suppose TNP still has some sense not to go off on a rant at 2 Game Mods :P

We did quorum raid his region. :P


It's my region, he's just my delegate. And he may not care, I don't appreciate it. Very disappointed in the North for attacking my region.

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The Church of Satan
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Church of Satan » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:29 am

Comfed wrote:They didn’t have a delegate for, what, half a day? And it most certainly was against the CCD, specifically their deceptive SC proposal.

It's about the poor judgement and operational laziness displayed by TNP, its delegate and its military. Renegade Islands Alliance was even commended, for which its own Ministry of WA Affairs said of it,

"the RIA has been a sizable contributor to Gameplay since it's creation, and has brought an element of civility and respect to a part of the game that is so often marked by nastiness and petty rivalry. They are a thorn in the side of raiders everywhere, which is always a pleasant experience, and worthy of note in the Security Council."

The good people of Renegade Islands worked hard and had fun to earn that. We didn't do all that so TNP could abandon some of its core principles over a resolution that was going to fail at vote anyways. Shizensky especially worked hard to build that place up and earn its place alongside regions like Yggdrasil, Texas, Forest, 10000 Islands and The MT Army. But none of that matters to TNP, right?
Last edited by The Church of Satan on Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Free the WA gnomes!

Chanku: This isn't an election it's an assault on the eyes. | Ikania: Hear! The Gospel of... Satan. Erh...
Yuno: Not gonna yell, but CoS is one of the best delegates ever | Ever-Wandering Souls: In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

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The Notorious Mad Jack
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Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:18 pm

Crazy girl wrote:
The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:We did quorum raid his region. :P


It's my region, he's just my delegate. And he may not care, I don't appreciate it. Very disappointed in the North for attacking my region.

I regret disappointing you but frankly, by approving the resolution it opened you to this action.
Last edited by The Notorious Mad Jack on Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Crazy girl
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Postby Crazy girl » Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:22 pm

Since when has approving (not even voting FOR, just approving) a proposal been a reason to invade old friends and allies?

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The Notorious Mad Jack
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Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:33 pm

Crazy girl wrote:Since when has approving (not even voting FOR, just approving) a proposal been a reason to invade old friends and allies?

When was The Moon an ally of The North Pacific?
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Unibot III
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:35 pm

Would it be against TNP law to seize TNP delegacy unilaterally?
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Baedan
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Founded: Jan 02, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Baedan » Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:48 pm

The Church of Satan wrote:
Comfed wrote:They didn’t have a delegate for, what, half a day? And it most certainly was against the CCD, specifically their deceptive SC proposal.

It's about the poor judgement and operational laziness displayed by TNP, its delegate and its military. Renegade Islands Alliance was even commended, for which its own Ministry of WA Affairs said of it,

"the RIA has been a sizable contributor to Gameplay since it's creation, and has brought an element of civility and respect to a part of the game that is so often marked by nastiness and petty rivalry. They are a thorn in the side of raiders everywhere, which is always a pleasant experience, and worthy of note in the Security Council."

The good people of Renegade Islands worked hard and had fun to earn that. We didn't do all that so TNP could abandon some of its core principles over a resolution that was going to fail at vote anyways. Shizensky especially worked hard to build that place up and earn its place alongside regions like Yggdrasil, Texas, Forest, 10000 Islands and The MT Army. But none of that matters to TNP, right?

Have you read TNP's initial statement? I think it might clear up some of your misconceptions.
Unibot III wrote:Would it be against TNP law to seize TNP delegacy unilaterally?

I'm unbelievably excited for whatever terrible take you're about to have.
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Crazy girl
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Postby Crazy girl » Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:54 pm

The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:
Crazy girl wrote:Since when has approving (not even voting FOR, just approving) a proposal been a reason to invade old friends and allies?

When was The Moon an ally of The North Pacific?


I always considered the North Pacific to be a friend and ally of myself (considering I helped train the first iteration of the NPA, not to mention operation puppet master and general support and friendly relations over the years), and I thought the North Pacific thought the same of me.

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Unibot III
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:56 pm

Baedan wrote:I'm unbelievably excited for whatever terrible take you're about to have.


Is it a bad take? TNP authorizes attacks on regions that would be unlawful against itself. Then wraps it up it all up in the blue flag and sings the anthem. If TNP wants people to respect their sovereignty, perhaps it should show more respect for other regions too.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25-05-2008 | Former Delegate of TRR

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