Embassy of the South Pacific

[Lord Dominator]

Why are they apologizing? Their members committed hostilities against a treatied ally of numerous military partners of theirs. TBH basically can't survive without the updaters and pilers from unaligned militaries that they rely on.

Instead of being the raiders we all know and love (or hate), they're walking on eggshells to make sure they can stay above water.

I'm sure a comparison of the relative size & number of pure raider & defender regions won't at all pop a bubble in your little 'accusations' or whatever they are that we aren't living up to past stuff, even if I actually believed you cared about how we are at all

To be fully honest, if I were on the Council of Hawks the only thing I’d be mad about is that the people who did it didn’t have permission. Or are regions dedicated to raiding afraid to make enemies now?

We rather prefer it when we choose our enemies and when hostilities with them begin.

Imagine the drama that would unfold if something like this had backing of the council and came to fruition!!

You are aware you're referring to inept attempts to stack TSP's WA voting, right?

[RiderSyl]

To be fully honest, if I were on the Council of Hawks the only thing I’d be mad about is that the people who did it didn’t have permission.

i'm pretty sure that's exactly what they're mad about. it is nice of the Hawks to only reprimand them though. in my day running an unauthorized op would get you the boot

[The Moonstar]

This whole thing is such a non issue blown out of proportion. It seems more like something you give a reprimand for those involved and move on from. Though I do have to wonder though, if someone not affiliated with a raiding group or even a Defender would get in trouble for supporting the opposite of what Defender TSP and Allies support, or would it only be an issue if they joined a Raider group even if they have no strong ties to those groups?

[Nepleslia]

This almost seems like a false flag op by the TSP brass themselves, to be honest...

[Spode Humbled Minions]

This almost seems like a false flag op by the TSP brass themselves, to be honest...

Uh
Puts on second tinfoil hat
But what if it was a Black Hawk false flag operation in order to create a pretext for their takeover of all the GCRs?!!1!

[Comfed]

This almost seems like a false flag op by the TSP brass themselves, to be honest...

Uh
Puts on second tinfoil hat
But what if it was a Black Hawk false flag operation in order to create a pretext for their takeover of all the GCRs?!!1!

Men in black suits approach.
"Whoa whoa whoa, you can't talk about that... you, you just can't talk about that. Move along."

[The Moonstar]

This almost seems like a false flag op by the TSP brass themselves, to be honest...

Doubt it. TSP doesn't trust TBH and is paranoid when it comes to them. Which makes sense for TSP. It's more of an issue of overreacting to a level beyond necessary if we are under that understanding. At least in my opinion.

[Comfed]

While we’re on the subject, where can I get some of those tinfoil hats that the members of the cabinet of my region seem to wear?

[RiderSyl]

This almost seems like a false flag op by the TSP brass themselves, to be honest...

Doubt it. TSP doesn't trust TBH and is paranoid when it comes to them. Which makes sense for TSP. It's more of an issue of overreacting to a level beyond necessary if we are under that understanding. At least in my opinion.

Ya, this is the correct take.

also, notice how little attention this is getting now that Commend Twobagger failed?

[Nova Vandalia]

also, notice how little attention this is getting now that Commend Twobagger failed?

I have noticed crickets. It's a little like it was expressly beneficial to TSP and XKI to over inflate it just for the little bit of time. But hey at least we'll always not have that proof from XKI that TSP claimed to be existence.

[FiHami]

also, notice how little attention this is getting now that Commend Twobagger failed?

I have noticed crickets. It's a little like it was expressly beneficial to TSP and XKI to over inflate it just for the little bit of time. But hey at least we'll always not have that proof from XKI that TSP claimed to be existence.

I honestly don't think that we're overinflating. If the Council of Hawks is to be believed, independent TBH members attempted (poorly) to infringe on our rights to have our own vote to determine how we were going to vote for the resolution at hand, which we take very seriously, as we obviously should. The fact that this happened is a gross breach of our sovereignty. I personally would react the same way as I am if it was found that XKI was influencing our votes, or if TNP, or if TEP, or if LWU, or Osiris, or <insert basically any region/org here> were trying something with us. And we know the difference between people having multiple residencies and voting in good faith for each region/org you're a member of, and coming into a region in bad faith with the attention to manipulate things for your personal/your region or org's gains. 1 is totally cool, the other is not something we condone internally, it isn't something that we would condone with our allies, and it will not be something we tolerate with our enemies.

Also, what proof from XKI that we are claiming to be in existence are you talking about? We+XKI noticed spoopy behavior that was honestly executed poorly. We've given you the "proof" in our statement. To refresh your memory on what this is specifically.........

[*]The nation “Rebbid” belongs to known player Martyn, who is a corporal in The Black Hawks, and was founded merely 2 days before immediately joining the World Assembly and casting a vote, without explanation, in favor of “Commend Twobagger.”
[*]The nation “GlowGolden” was founded at the same time and also immediately joined the World Assembly and cast a vote, without explanation, in favor of “Commend Twobagger.” We believe this nation may belong to Steak Paul, a known member of The Black Hawks, due to Steak Paul resigning from the World Assembly a mere 30 seconds before GlowGolden was admitted.
[*]Both Rebbid and GlowGolden nations had moved into newly-founded passworded regions before moving into The South Pacific. We believe this may have been part of an alternate plan to pad “Commend Twobagger” with approvals by creating small single-purposes Delegates, in case it could not reach the voting queue organically.
[*]A similar pattern was spotted with the nation “Seltin.” This nation is older, founded in September 2020 but only days ago rejoined the World Assembly. Their only activity in The South Pacific has been to vote in OWL and their votes track with the interests of The Black Hawks. They voted in favor of “Condemn Ever-Wandering Souls”, which was widely considered to be a thinly-veiled congratulation for the well-known raider. They also voted in favor of “Commend Twobagger.”

We do take this violation seriously. We value a region's rights to it's own sovereignty without having to worry about invasion, barring the obvious fascist regions. This is serious to us, but you're welcome to have your own opinions on the whole situation, as is anyone.

[Comfed]

I have noticed crickets. It's a little like it was expressly beneficial to TSP and XKI to over inflate it just for the little bit of time. But hey at least we'll always not have that proof from XKI that TSP claimed to be existence.

I honestly don't think that we're overinflating. If the Council of Hawks is to be believed, independent TBH members attempted (poorly) to infringe on our rights to have our own vote to determine how we were going to vote for the resolution at hand, which we take very seriously, as we obviously should. The fact that this happened is a gross breach of our sovereignty.

That three members tried to influence the vote of their own accord?

I personally would react the same way as I am if it was found that XKI was influencing our votes,

That, I imagine, sets you apart from other members of the cabinet.

or if TNP, or if TEP, or if LWU, or Osiris, or <insert basically any region/org here> were trying something with us. And we know the difference between people having multiple residencies and voting in good faith for each region/org you're a member of, and coming into a region in bad faith with the attention to manipulate things for your personal/your region or org's gains. 1 is totally cool, the other is not something we condone internally, it isn't something that we would condone with our allies, and it will not be something we tolerate with our enemies.

Then why do you maintain relations with XKI?

Also, what proof from XKI that we are claiming to be in existence are you talking about? We+XKI noticed spoopy behavior that was honestly executed poorly. We've given you the "proof" in our statement. To refresh your memory on what this is specifically.........

[*]The nation “Rebbid” belongs to known player Martyn, who is a corporal in The Black Hawks, and was founded merely 2 days before immediately joining the World Assembly and casting a vote, without explanation, in favor of “Commend Twobagger.”
[*]The nation “GlowGolden” was founded at the same time and also immediately joined the World Assembly and cast a vote, without explanation, in favor of “Commend Twobagger.” We believe this nation may belong to Steak Paul, a known member of The Black Hawks, due to Steak Paul resigning from the World Assembly a mere 30 seconds before GlowGolden was admitted.
[*]Both Rebbid and GlowGolden nations had moved into newly-founded passworded regions before moving into The South Pacific. We believe this may have been part of an alternate plan to pad “Commend Twobagger” with approvals by creating small single-purposes Delegates, in case it could not reach the voting queue organically.
[*]A similar pattern was spotted with the nation “Seltin.” This nation is older, founded in September 2020 but only days ago rejoined the World Assembly. Their only activity in The South Pacific has been to vote in OWL and their votes track with the interests of The Black Hawks. They voted in favor of “Condemn Ever-Wandering Souls”, which was widely considered to be a thinly-veiled congratulation for the well-known raider.

Cheap shot. While the other things may seem odd, this isn’t evidence, not if you’re a democracy and the cabinet should be ashamed for using that against the “infiltrators”

They also voted in favor of “Commend Twobagger.”

We do take this violation seriously. We value a region's rights to it's own sovereignty without having to worry about invasion, barring the obvious fascist regions. This is serious to us, but you're welcome to have your own opinions on the whole situation, as is anyone.

[Honeydewistania]

Ah yes, break ties with any region with the capability to interfere in your democracy aka any normal sized region

[HumanSanity]

That, I imagine, sets you apart from other members of the cabinet.

I have zero idea what this even begins to mean. I read it like 10 times. No idea. TSP's Cabinet was democratically elected in an election which XKI did not interfere in. If relevant authorities in TSP had evidence that a citizen of XKI voted under false pretenses in TSP's election, and told us, we would take decisive action against it. Not only because election interference is a no no for our values generally but also because we have a treaty with the Coalition which says:

Section 1. The parties to this treaty vow neither to attack the home region of the other party nor participate in any action with the intent to overthrow their legitimate government.

Section 3. Both parties will refrain from conducting clandestine operations, espionage, or other forms of spying against either party.

Then why do you maintain relations with XKI?

XKI pointed out to the Cabinet and Council on Regional Security evidence we noted of a possible violation on their sovereignty. Not only is such a thing friendly behavior, it's actually required by our treaty with the Coalition which reads:

Section 4. Both parties will, in good faith, report any known threat or concern related to the other party's security, to the appropriate security organs.

Throughout this entire episode, XKI has acted in good faith as a treaty ally of the Coalition.

Edits because quotes are difficult

[Comfed]

Ah yes, break ties with any region with the capability to interfere in your democracy aka any normal sized region

I have zero idea what this even begins to mean. I read it like 10 times. No idea. TSP's Cabinet was democratically elected in an election which XKI did not interfere in. If relevant authorities in TSP had evidence that a citizen of XKI voted under false pretenses in TSP's election, and told us, we would take decisive action against it. Not only because election interference is a no no for our values generally but also because we have a treaty with the Coalition which says:

XKI has certainly acted as an ally of TSP. However, it is ludicrous to say that one’s region is opposed to interfering in the internal affairs of any region, but continue to maintain ties with a region that interferes in the affairs of raider regions (XKI). XKI isn’t the only region that does this, it’s just the biggest example.

[HumanSanity]

but continue to maintain ties with a region that interferes in the affairs of raider regions (XKI). XKI isn’t the only region that does this, it’s just the biggest example.

1) Can you please name an example in recent history of when XKI interfered in the affairs of another region?

2) Our philosophy is clear: if your region does not respect regional sovereignty and takes actions to back up that view, you forfeit your right to regional sovereignty and we will bring the fight to you.

Anti-XKI broken records sound as bad as all other broken records, no matter how much the hype gallery tries to make it sound otherwise.

[Comfed]

but continue to maintain ties with a region that interferes in the affairs of raider regions (XKI). XKI isn’t the only region that does this, it’s just the biggest example.

1) Can you please name an example in recent history of when XKI interfered in the affairs of another region?

2) Our philosophy is clear: if your region does not respect regional sovereignty and takes actions to back up that view, you forfeit your right to regional sovereignty and we will bring the fight to you.

Anti-XKI broken records sound as bad as all other broken records, no matter how much the hype gallery tries to make it sound otherwise.

So you believe in regional sovereignty for regions that share your beliefs, but no other regions? We will have to agree to disagree there.

My point is that the statement by TSP is full of hypocrisy, and the cabinet can’t hide forever under its collective tinfoil hat.

Or at least whoever writes their statements.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

but continue to maintain ties with a region that interferes in the affairs of raider regions (XKI). XKI isn’t the only region that does this, it’s just the biggest example.

1) Can you please name an example in recent history of when XKI interfered in the affairs of another region?

XKIers seem to find their way into the DMs of TNP delegates and WA ministers very often.

One could certainly make the case that such actions are a form of interference

[Starfyre]

Ah yes, break ties with any region with the capability to interfere in your democracy aka any normal sized region

I have zero idea what this even begins to mean. I read it like 10 times. No idea. TSP's Cabinet was democratically elected in an election which XKI did not interfere in. If relevant authorities in TSP had evidence that a citizen of XKI voted under false pretenses in TSP's election, and told us, we would take decisive action against it. Not only because election interference is a no no for our values generally but also because we have a treaty with the Coalition which says:

XKI has certainly acted as an ally of TSP. However, it is ludicrous to say that one’s region is opposed to interfering in the internal affairs of any region, but continue to maintain ties with a region that interferes in the affairs of raider regions (XKI). XKI isn’t the only region that does this, it’s just the biggest example.

Can you please point out, for the crowd, which raider region we're interfering with? As far as I'm aware, we aren't interfering in any.

1) Can you please name an example in recent history of when XKI interfered in the affairs of another region?

XKIers seem to find their way into the DMs of TNP delegates and WA ministers very often.

One could certainly make the case that such actions are a form of interference

When XKI officials talk to TNP officials it's about regional business, not interfering. Last I checked, airing our problems and trying to find a way to work together despite those problems aren't interfering in the workings of sovereign regions.

Edit: And since this is now about XKI, should probably bring it to our embassy thread and not TSPs.

[Twobagger]

1) Can you please name an example in recent history of when XKI interfered in the affairs of another region?

This is kind of an unfortunate post. I'm guessing the emphasis on "recent" is to deflect away from Osiris, which of course brings that incident directly to mind. Comparing the two incidents only diminishes what TSP has alleged here: one was two members (amateurishly) trying to influence TSP's WA vote on a Commendation, acting on their own - as opposed to being directed by the leaders of their military. The other was a successful attempt to seize and hold the WA Delegate seat in a region, ordered by the leader of that region's military.

In other words, it underscores the degree to which some here have made a mountain out of a molehill.

[RiderSyl]

What's the difference between TSP and TBH?

One sees TSP's sovereignty as nothing more than a cheap political tool that can be used to sway the results of a Security Council vote, and the other is a raider region.

[Honeydewistania]

What's the difference between TSP and TBH?

One sees TSP's sovereignty as nothing more than a cheap political tool that can be used to sway the results of a Security Council vote, and the other is a raider region.

When did TSP become raider?

[Comfed]

What's the difference between TSP and TBH?

One sees TSP's sovereignty as nothing more than a cheap political tool that can be used to sway the results of a Security Council vote, and the other is a raider region.

I mean, one is a GCR and the other is a UCR.

[Zizou]

What's the difference between TSP and TBH?

One sees TSP's sovereignty as nothing more than a cheap political tool that can be used to sway the results of a Security Council vote, and the other is a raider region.

I mean, one is a GCR and the other is a UCR.

"And while they both start with a capital T, one ends with SP and the other ends with BH"

[Miss Bad Life Choices]

What's the difference between TSP and TBH?

Liquid dog.