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by Rebbid » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:36 pm
by Nova Vandalia » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:46 pm
Qvait wrote:There is an unquestionable fact in this scandal: TSP's sovereignty was violated by suspicious actors, and I know that the Cabinet would have never put out this statement if it wasn't, because it was. I'm speaking on this as a former MoFA and current CRS member. If any other region had been the subject of such an egregious violation, they would have as much right as any other region to protest this transgression.
by Refuge Isle » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:53 pm
Rebbid wrote:I'm disappointed that everything's seen as bad faith rather than testing the waters.
Rebbid wrote:so my one additional vote in TSP shouldnt be seen as such a huge threat to Sovereignty: if anything it actually weakened my voice.
Nova Vandalia wrote:You don't know that's why they joined.
by Qvait » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:56 pm
Nova Vandalia wrote:Then protest, it instead of using it to push a WA agenda. I mean it's pretty bad you had to use this to get TNP to switch.
by Nova Vandalia » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:00 pm
by Tinhampton » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:02 pm
Qvait wrote:Nova Vandalia wrote:Then protest, it instead of using it to push a WA agenda. I mean it's pretty bad you had to use this to get TNP to switch.
Yeah sure, TSP is the aggressor here. Nonsense. Given the circumstances, the Cabinet had every right to encourage our allies to vote against the proposed resolution. This is a just action against an unjust action.
by Rebbid » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:12 pm
Refuge Isle wrote:Rebbid wrote:I'm disappointed that everything's seen as bad faith rather than testing the waters.
Typically one does this while being open about their identities.
There's a limited amount of possible good will that accompanies pretending to be a noob interested in influencing voting trends
Refuge Isle wrote:Rebbid wrote:so my one additional vote in TSP shouldnt be seen as such a huge threat to Sovereignty: if anything it actually weakened my voice.
The logic is lost on me.
While I agree that TSP's system is more open to exploitation, it is also helpful for people who are gameside-only. But I don't really follow the logic that influencing a 700+ strong delegate vote through their WA ministry is a weaker play than whatever you do in TCB.
by Refuge Isle » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:19 pm
Rebbid wrote:I mean it's simple math, but 1 voice in 275 vs 1 voice in 700+ is quite different. If I campaign for something in TCB (we have a similar but different system to TSP in how things are voted for actually, I like it) then I tend to be arguing against a lot less peoples votes than I was in TSP.
by Rebbid » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:23 pm
Refuge Isle wrote:Rebbid wrote:I mean it's simple math, but 1 voice in 275 vs 1 voice in 700+ is quite different. If I campaign for something in TCB (we have a similar but different system to TSP in how things are voted for actually, I like it) then I tend to be arguing against a lot less peoples votes than I was in TSP.
This is not how World Assembly ministries work when those ministries determine the vote of the delegate. In TEP, I don't compete with the thousand WA nations in TEP, but with the ideas of the rest of the WAA ministry.
One vote in a situation like that is well more than 1:1 influence. Often, a couple people with strong and well-reasoned opinions can make the difference.
by Honeydewistania » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:24 pm
Nova Vandalia wrote:Refuge Isle wrote:
It also really inconvenient for the TBH apologists too, because it seems really unrepentant.
As far as I'm concerned, both side are at fault. TSP for blowing it out of proportion and using it to push an agenda against a person who deserves a commendation and TBH for getting caught and giving a half hearted apology, that they can't actually back up.
Alger wrote:if you have egoquotes in your signature, touch grass
by Rebbid » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:26 pm
Honeydewistania wrote:Nova Vandalia wrote:
It also really inconvenient for the TBH apologists too, because it seems really unrepentant.
As far as I'm concerned, both side are at fault. TSP for blowing it out of proportion and using it to push an agenda against a person who deserves a commendation and TBH for getting caught and giving a half hearted apology, that they can't actually back up.
TSP are not at fault here. Their sovereignty was attacked. Don’t victim blame them.
by RiderSyl » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:28 pm
Honeydewistania wrote:Nova Vandalia wrote:
It also really inconvenient for the TBH apologists too, because it seems really unrepentant.
As far as I'm concerned, both side are at fault. TSP for blowing it out of proportion and using it to push an agenda against a person who deserves a commendation and TBH for getting caught and giving a half hearted apology, that they can't actually back up.
TSP are not at fault here. Their sovereignty was attacked. Don’t victim blame them.
by Honeydewistania » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:31 pm
Alger wrote:if you have egoquotes in your signature, touch grass
by RiderSyl » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:34 pm
Honeydewistania wrote:Ok yeah, poor choice of words. But I do not believe they are at fault, or have done anything wrong here
by A Leaf on the Wind » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:47 pm
by Aivintis » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:24 pm
A Leaf on the Wind wrote:Does switching sides automatically erase any good that you have done on the other side? If I became a hawk tomorrow, does my time in RRA mean nothing? It's disappointing that TSP took this moment to unnecessarily drag someone through the mud. You can think someone unworthy of a commend, without resorting to this kind of behavior.
by WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:37 pm
Aivintis wrote:A Leaf on the Wind wrote:Does switching sides automatically erase any good that you have done on the other side? If I became a hawk tomorrow, does my time in RRA mean nothing? It's disappointing that TSP took this moment to unnecessarily drag someone through the mud. You can think someone unworthy of a commend, without resorting to this kind of behavior.
I see this situation differently. To me it's a commendation of a raider based on achievements from a long time ago that have since been overshadowed by their current career. And then with voter fraud to boot, this doesn't seem like erasing a long defender history after a day of switching.
by Twobagger » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:39 pm
Aivintis wrote:I see this situation differently. To me it's a commendation of a raider based on achievements from a long time ago that have since been overshadowed by their current career. And then with voter fraud to boot, this doesn't seem like erasing a long defender history after a day of switching.
Lord Dominator wrote: Defender of the Year: Twobagger
Defender Awards 2019 wrote:The Sir Lans Award
[...]
The winner of the Award this year is Twobagger of the Ten Thousand Islands Treaty Organisation (TITO), who has willingly assisted in so many operations regardless of the region leading them. Congratulations Twobagger!
Benevolent Thomas wrote:Twobagger: +15 For Tactical Genius
by Aleister » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:43 pm
Twobagger wrote:It is unfortunate that you feel this way, given that many of the achievements were fairly recent when the resolution was originally written, and that I was not involved in the incident in question.
USS Monitor: Racism is not against site rules.
by A Bloodred Moon » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:32 pm
TSP Foreign Office wrote:STATEMENT ON THE BLACK HAWKS' VIOLATION OF SOVEREIGNTY
Our allies in 10000 Islands also alerted the Cabinet and the Council on Regional Security on this suspicious activity and provided more information. We have strong evidence that members of The Black Hawks attempted to manipulate the outcome of Security Council votes related to their interests.
The Cabinet of The South Pacific considers this a grave and gross violation of our regional sovereignty by The Black Hawks.
We endeavor to create an open community and foster a representative government, and the OWL program has been a great vehicle to introduce the community to the World Assembly. To abuse and attempt to manipulate the outcome of these votes to serve a foreign enemy’s interest is an attack on the integrity of our democracy.
The South Pacific and our allies are watching.
The Cabinet also takes this opportunity to address the Security Council resolution that has inspired The Black Hawks to again attempt to violate our sovereignty.
The South Pacific has voted against this commendation, and we encourage all regions, and all of our allies and partners to join us in doing so.
by Daytime to Night » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:04 am
by The Notorious Mad Jack » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:18 am
Nova Vandalia wrote:Qvait wrote:There is an unquestionable fact in this scandal: TSP's sovereignty was violated by suspicious actors, and I know that the Cabinet would have never put out this statement if it wasn't, because it was. I'm speaking on this as a former MoFA and current CRS member. If any other region had been the subject of such an egregious violation, they would have as much right as any other region to protest this transgression.
Then protest, it instead of using it to push a WA agenda. I mean it's pretty bad you had to use this to get TNP to switch.
by Aquilanion » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:25 am
Daytime to Night wrote:Unfortunately this is part of a pattern of ever increasing TBH interference in the GCRs, whether it is voter importation, supporting active coup attempts (Balder)
by Daytime to Night » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:28 am
Aquilanion wrote:Daytime to Night wrote:Unfortunately this is part of a pattern of ever increasing TBH interference in the GCRs, whether it is voter importation, supporting active coup attempts (Balder)
The Black Hawks was not, and never was, involved in any coup attempts in Balder, despite efforts to portray it otherwise.
by Devi » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:34 am
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