Embassy of the South Pacific

[The tanks of herp]

Is it ok if I post here again?

Last time I did I got yelled at

Not a representative but I'll would assume that it's not ideal to be posting funny stuff like doggos delivering package to ppl on the forum that would be reserved for government foreign or citizens announcement. It makes it look mess up the government announcements or official business. Any funny stuff can belong in the another place. You can still be funny but must be done appropriately. That being said someone else can like clarify better easier.

Id thought it was relevant beacuse it was TSP politics and TSP Culture. Crazyest elections are srs business

[Kshrlmnt]

Man, I always hoped I'd be proscribed for something I planned and paid attention to. I'll have to work harder.

[Borovan entered the region as he]

Not a representative but I'll would assume that it's not ideal to be posting funny stuff like doggos delivering package to ppl on the forum that would be reserved for government foreign or citizens announcement. It makes it look mess up the government announcements or official business. Any funny stuff can belong in the another place. You can still be funny but must be done appropriately. That being said someone else can like clarify better easier.

Id thought it was relevant beacuse it was TSP politics and TSP Culture. Crazyest elections are srs business

It should be ok as long as it does not look like it's confusing some people thinking that the announcements are from the authority of the South Pacific
viewtopic.php?p=35483990#p35483990
If you were to just comment about the elections and show a video of comparing the hecticness of it it's ok. But something that doesn't look out of place making ppl wonder or look like its a citizen posting as if it's a government official announcing something.

[The tanks of herp]

Id thought it was relevant beacuse it was TSP politics and TSP Culture. Crazyest elections are srs business

It should be ok as long as it does not look like it's confusing some people thinking that the announcements are from the authority of the South Pacific
viewtopic.php?p=35483990#p35483990
If you were to just comment about the elections and show a video of comparing the hecticness of it it's ok. But something that doesn't look out of place making ppl wonder or look like its a citizen posting as if it's a government official announcing something.

Fair enough (but it was a candate for crazyest in the region and I am a TSP leglsator)

[ArenaC]

Sorry to disappoint you but I never did this.
Source: https://forum.theeastpacific.com/june-2 ... 2-s30.html

Yeah, I can confirm that Cain was not even a citizen or even in TEP for the past year.
Now, if someone from TSP had come to me first, I would have cleared things up, but that would have gotten in the way of their righteous indignation.

EDIT: (fixed my signature)

“Keystone Cops Coup”

Is this an insult to Pennsylvania?

[George Mountbatten VI]

OMG Remember when I wanted a shadow war with them because of this and y'all blacklisted me lol.

[United Federated States of Omega]

 
PRESS RELEASE

---

 

 

PASSAGE OF THE SOUTHERN ISLANDER ACCORDS

24 November 2019


Fellow South Pacificans and friends,

The Cabinet of the South Pacific and the Council of Nine of 10000 Islands are pleased to announce the ratification of the Southern Islander Accords.

The first treaty between the South Pacific and 10000 Islands, it helps to symbolize both regions' commitment to the Defender community. Both regions anticipate uninterrupted, if not even increased, military cooperation on efforts to ensure natives continue to be protected from those who would seek to destroy their communities. In addition, both regions will endeavor to increase cultural ties with one another in order to bolster our already healthy communities. It is our hope that this treaty can help strengthen the Defender community at large and that this is the start of a long and prosperous relationship between the South Pacific and 10000 Islands. 

Faithfully yours,

Minister of Foreign Affairs,
United Federated States of Omega
Delegate of 10000 Islands,
Kuriko

 

---

 

[Cormactopia Prime]

Seems like a commonsense step after the South Pacific adopted a defender alignment. Congratulations to both parties!

[Agalaesia]

The South Pacific Ministry of Reigonal Affairs and Conch Kindom is pleased to invite you to their join role-playing event.

The event will consist of multiple event, including:

Talks by five guest speakers including:

• Qvait
• Lamoni
• The Third British Empire

A role-playing debate; character profiling events

Anyone can join!

You're all invited after all. So, what are you waiting for?

---

To Join, please hop on to the event Discord Server which can be found here

[Block II]

I don’t see why you feel the need to glorify Lamoni with a platform, but hey you do you TSP. I can’t say you have the best judgment since you went Fendah anyways.

[Unibot III]

The 10KI treaty development is something I could have never have contemplated five years ago. I don't think anyone would have. How times change!

[Xoriet]

Hail Lamonipony.

[TSP Foreign Office]

PRESS RELEASE

---

 

 

PASSAGE OF PAX POUKAI

25 February 2020


Fellow South Pacificans and friends,
Lazarus and The South Pacific have recently entered into a nonaggression contract, entitled Pax Poukai, with one another. This pact codifies the unwritten contract of mutual respect both regions have been upholding for each other for some time.

Pax Poukai solidifies both regions’ commitment to respecting and developing native rule, and to fostering a healthy culture between one another. The agreement passed through both regions’ legislatures with relative ease and is seen as a signal of a prosperous relationship to come. Both regions intend to strengthen their ties to one another through this agreement, which is a continuation of a long-standing relationship.


 

Faithfully yours,

Minister of Foreign Affairs,
United Federated States of Omega
Minister of Foreign Affairs of Lazarus,
McChimp

 

---

 

[Dilber]

Congrats guys from us in The West Pacific! This is cool to see!

[The Holy Principality of Saint Mark]

Congratulations on taking another step in improving the ties between your two fine regions.

[Yokiria]

Interesting to see a "nonaggression contract". I'm not really sure how that relates to other forms of relations between regions. Is it worth more or less than a standard treaty?

[Your Imaginary Friend]

Interesting to see a "nonaggression contract". I'm not really sure how that relates to other forms of relations between regions. Is it worth more or less than a standard treaty?

You can read all the gritty details in the linked forum page, but basically it includes:

-no attacking or spying on each other
-keep diplomatic connections (embassy, ambassadors exchanged)
-should prolly do culture stuff together

And unlike most full treaties it doesn't have:

-supply military assistance on request
-culture or military collab requirements

In a sense, it's "worth less" I suppose. But I think treaties are really worth the most when they express what both regions involved would be fully comfortable doing were they to have a treaty or not; otherwise hard feelings are bound to be brewed. Especially considering the relatively short existence of LazCorp, this pact a pretty big (although natural) step for our regions to be taking together now. It's good to go slow! :)

[Unibot III]

Has Lazarus become a democracy yet? How is this not a walk-back of TSP foreign policy?

[Roavin]

Has Lazarus become a democracy yet? How is this not a walk-back of TSP foreign policy?

There is no walk-back of TSP foreign policy. Our advocacy for democracy is well-known, but that does not mean we can't (or haven't) entered into mutually beneficial agreements with non-democratic regions.

Furthermore, in November, Lazarus passed a number of democratic reforms, in which the Delegate remains as head of state and an elected Prime Minister serves as head of government (not dissimilar to TSP's setup). These reforms came about democratically within the Lazarene Assembly.

[New Rogernomics]

Has Lazarus become a democracy yet? How is this not a walk-back of TSP foreign policy?

Lazarus from the start was determined to take it's time, and democracy vs authoritarianism was never a debate. What was a debate was how should we structure our region, and what should we put in place to keep us stable.

If Lazarus had just jumped in headfirst into democracy, right after the Con Con, it would have ended up with chaos, as folks plotted to force Lazarus into a R/D alignment yet again and play for control.

Instead we took our time as a region, debated, discussed, and came up with a reformed system we could be happy with. Then we passed it with a sizable super-majority.

Lazarus might decide to reform things again, though not without a long debate. Certainly there is no enthusiasm for elected Delegates at this time, as that opens a whole new can of worms and issues AKA risk of folks infiltrating the region to seize the Delegacy. Which happened so many times during the HRL-CU.

[Unibot III]

Has Lazarus become a democracy yet? How is this not a walk-back of TSP foreign policy?

Lazarus from the start was determined to take it's time, and democracy vs authoritarianism was never a debate. What was a debate was how should we structure our region, and what should we put in place to keep us stable.

If Lazarus had just jumped in headfirst into democracy, right after the Con Con, it would have ended up with chaos, as folks plotted to force Lazarus into a R/D alignment yet again and play for control.

Instead we took our time as a region, debated, discussed, and came up with a reformed system we could be happy with. Then we passed it with a sizable super-majority.

Lazarus might decide to reform things again, though not without a long debate. Certainly there is no enthusiasm for elected Delegates at this time, as that opens a whole new can of worms and issues AKA risk of folks infiltrating the region to seize the Delegacy. Which happened so many times during the HRL-CU.

Ultimately it was someone infiltrating to seize the delegacy who saved Lazarus (Kazmr). I kid, I kid. I appreciate Roavin’s comments — I had read over Lazarene Law but was unclear about its ramifications.

As for R/D, I think you’ve favoured political neutrality for years (10+) and you’ve interpreted the crises in Lazarus in a way that confirms what you thought. Ultimately, entryism flourished in Lazarus during the neutral years pre-PRL, and the main agents of infiltration in Lazarus have been self-described neutral figures on behalf of an autocracy that prizes neutrality. The irony is you’ve sought to make Lazarus like the NPO as a point of stabilization, but making Lazarus more like NPO was the central goal of the infiltrators. Even PRL was not as NPO-ish as NPO would have liked: it was defender (NPO professes neutrality), it was left-wing (NPO is right-wing), and PRL elected its leaders (whereas NPO professes autocratic succession, just as Lazarus does today for the same reasoning and the same justification.)

Military policy is a legitimate point of discussion, upholding authoritarianism to eliminate that discussion is no less legitimate than it would be for any other area of policy. There are reams upon reams of historical examples of neutral armies that were non functional, and no good example of a neutral GCR army that flourished under its neutrality; there are numerous examples of neutral GCRs that have fallen prey to infiltration and entryism (including Lazarus), and yet we can see in TRR, TSP, Osiris, Balder, TNP, and TWP, numerous examples that demonstrate that fleshing out and adopting a military policy distinct from neutrality has had a stabilizing effect on their politics and blunted external interest in infiltration. The only example, rather unfortunately, that Lazarus seems to be following is the Francoist ideal.

I can understand why TSP would want to recognize terms of non aggression with Lazarus, but I’m confused why Lazarus thinks there are potential areas of military and cultural cooperation. The Ayn Rand theme is horribly contradictory with TSP’s own democratic, community, and social values and raiding Warzones gets boring fast — SPSF moved beyond that years ago.

[Custadia]

Ultimately it was someone infiltrating to seize the delegacy who saved Lazarus (Kazmr). I kid, I kid. I appreciate Roavin’s comments — I had read over Lazarene Law but was unclear about its ramifications.

As for R/D, I think you’ve favoured political neutrality for years (10+) and you’ve interpreted the crises in Lazarus in a way that confirms what you thought. Ultimately, entryism flourished in Lazarus during the neutral years pre-PRL, and the main agents of infiltration in Lazarus have been self-described neutral figures on behalf of an autocracy that prizes neutrality. The irony is you’ve sought to make Lazarus like the NPO as a point of stabilization, but making Lazarus more like NPO was the central goal of the infiltrators. Even PRL was not as NPO-ish as NPO would have liked: it was defender (NPO professes neutrality), it was left-wing (NPO is right-wing), and PRL elected its leaders (whereas NPO professes autocratic succession, just as Lazarus does today for the same reasoning and the same justification.)

Military policy is a legitimate point of discussion, upholding authoritarianism to eliminate that discussion is no less legitimate than it would be for any other area of policy. There are reams upon reams of historical examples of neutral armies that were non functional, and no good example of a neutral GCR army that flourished under its neutrality; there are numerous examples of neutral GCRs that have fallen prey to infiltration and entryism (including Lazarus), and yet we can see in TRR, TSP, Osiris, Balder, TNP, and TWP, numerous examples that demonstrate that fleshing out and adopting a military policy distinct from neutrality has had a stabilizing effect on their politics and blunted external interest in infiltration. The only example, rather unfortunately, that Lazarus seems to be following is the Francoist ideal.

I can understand why TSP would want to recognize terms of non aggression with Lazarus, but I’m confused why Lazarus thinks there are potential areas of military and cultural cooperation. The Ayn Rand theme is horribly contradictory with TSP’s own democratic, community, and social values and raiding Warzones gets boring fast — SPSF moved beyond that years ago.

I'm struggling to see your point here. Lazarus' political course is determined by two democratic institutions: the cabinet and the legislature. Though its delegacy and security council are meritocratic, these are security roles which do not relate to our political direction.

[Lord Dominator]

Unless something severely changed when I wasn't it's a generalized corporate theme (citizens are shareholders), not an Ayn Rand theme.

[New Rogernomics]

Ultimately it was someone infiltrating to seize the delegacy who saved Lazarus (Kazmr)[...]

Lazarus under the PRL, wasn't a free region, as folks were barred just for being raiders and let's not even start on pre-PRL figures like NES being outright banned*1. Kazmr was coming into a system that wasn't politically open at all, even before the NLO came to be. So the current situation couldn't be comparable, a coup now would be against a democratically elected Prime Minister and the citizens assembly, and not just an 'autocrat'. Though I think anyone would be hard-pressed to equate Tubbius to an autocrat, as the position of Delegate in Lazarus has no political power, as it exists to protect the region and safeguard our community - and if the region disagrees they can vote to overrule the Delegate in the assembly.

As for R/D, I think you’ve favoured political neutrality for years (10+) and you’ve interpreted the crises in Lazarus in a way that confirms what you thought.

Not sure if you are arguing in case of myself or Lazarus. In both cases I would have to disagree. I have opposed Raiderism and Defenderism, as I don't agree with the ethics/morality of either positions, what I did do was to be pragmatic, which I had to do as Delegate of Lazarus, as Lazarus was part of the FRA. In fact I supported the FRA, and voted against changing that alignment throughout the HRL, as a citizen and Delegate. Lazarus itself used to be ideologically neutral in R/D, as it was the PRL that distorted Lazarus into a Defender exclusive cabal, and then the post CU regimes that pushed Lazarus into being a raider hub. Though during the Humane Republic era, the choice to remain defender was debated and voted on, versus the PRL that didn't really give anyone a choice. Recently, I did propose legislation as a private citizen that would make the guard more flexible, though that failed to reach quorum - and you can find plenty of Lazarenes that would rather Lazarus remain neutral than be a R/D battleground.

As a private citizen, I would prefer IF Lazarus were to establish an alignment that we build an inter-regional organization with a clear purpose, as simply arguing in our assembly that 'raiding/defending is fun' wouldn't cut it, whether that organization leans defender in ideology or not. I see merits in defending such as protecting defenseless regions from groups just out to cause mischief/harm or to ruin communities, though at the same time defending puts a lot of effort into defending regions on the decline , which was one of the criticisms of the FRA when it was in existence. Not sure if you know, but I started out the game as a defender, and never actually participated in a solid raid beyond one with Catlandatopia, and even though I side more with raiders - it is a philosophical position and not an active one. I don't condone raids on regions, though I do oppose defenderism under the premise that action leads to reaction i.e. defending regions without substantive community value or purpose that are in decline isn't improving the game, and ironically defending such regions gives raiders purpose to exist.

[...]making Lazarus more like NPO was the central goal of the infiltrators. Even PRL was not as NPO-ish as NPO would have liked: it was defender (NPO professes neutrality), it was left-wing (NPO is right-wing), and PRL elected its leaders (whereas NPO professes autocratic succession, just as Lazarus does today for the same reasoning and the same justification.)

I am surprised that you argue that the NPO was neutral, as plenty of players would argue the opposite, that there was a tacit alliance between defender alignment and the NPO as they shared some of the same goals. That isn't the same as an outright lean defender, but it was hardly neutral. In fact a large part of the failure of the NLO to be established was down to the NPO-FRA rift that developed, when their interests no longer aligned.

On Lazarus and the NPO however, that is an incredibly broad scope in the time-line, as the NPO has changed politically recently, as has Lazarus over the years, so I will have to assume you are referring to NPO pre-reform. If we are to compare the pre-reform NPO and Lazarus, then there are wide number of differences. Firstly, Lazarus has no political ideology beyond keeping out threats that seek to overturn the mandate through illegal means and coup the region, whereas the NPO established a political ideology that at worst was built around interventionism in other GCRs and hostility towards UCRs that stood in way of that. Secondly, the PRL did not 'elect it's leaders' in a fair sense, as nations were barred exclusively for their politics, and some regions were outright barred from having their citizens participate in Lazarus. Modern Lazarus, where it does bar, it bars because of a security/OOC threat, which is how most regions in the game determine whether they let a nation in or not. Though, the PRL and NPO didn't just bar citizenship, they outright ejected nations for political reasons. The Humane Republic was not in support of that that, and the current government isn't in support of that either.

Military policy is a legitimate point of discussion, upholding authoritarianism to eliminate that discussion is no less legitimate than it would be for any other area of policy. There are reams upon reams of historical examples of neutral armies that were non functional, and no good example of a neutral GCR army that flourished under its neutrality.[...]The only example, rather unfortunately, that Lazarus seems to be following is the Francoist ideal.

Firstly, military policy has been a point of discussion, though there is no consensus on it, and it is historical president in Lazarus for infiltration to be to change our R/D alignment and undermine our independence, forcing an allegiance to foreign actors. Where there is consensus is on this point, that we aren't prepared to surrender to foreign actors to be 'more welcoming', and if the decision comes between being neutral and boring*2, most would prefer that that being destabilized and sold down the river. That position is not unique to the NPO or Lazarus, so to equate this in a comparison seems too selective, as Lazarene policy isn't any that different to other GCRs, including those with an alignment.

Secondly, figures of authority would be required to stifle discussion rather than facilitate it, and myself among others have facilitated that discussion, and neither the Delegate or Prime Minister of Lazarus has opposed such a thing, so to argue that equates to 'authoritarianism' would be quite stretch, though you could argue apathy if you wanted to argue the discussion has not been active or as extensive as some would like.

Thirdly, there is also another factor involved, which I haven't seen expressed in your points, which is that Lazarus has considerable political and social fatigue related to military policy, shared by members of the government, as well as much of the assembly, old and new citizens alike. This is as military policy causes tension and is not an easy topic to discuss, it requires making a point towards interventionism in other regions, and away from a regional policy that allows for us to hold a diplomatic relationship simultaneously with regions such as TSP and Osiris. If we became an ideologically raider region for example, I doubt that many defender-leaning regions could in good conscience hold an embassy with us, as we could not profess non-alignment holding an interventionist position. Right now our military is restricted to raiding Warzones and the Lazarus-NPO war, which does not force Lazarenes to decide one way or the other. That might change, though according to the last vote below 70% of the region support a change, so that doesn't seem likely any time soon.

I can understand why TSP would want to recognize terms of non aggression with Lazarus, but I’m confused why Lazarus thinks there are potential areas of military and cultural cooperation[...]

Lazarus is an ordinary corporate theme, which is fairly relaxed about itself. If you take away the really limited theming i.e. just name changes, it is a pretty standard region with a citizens assembly and elected prime minister who make all the political decisions. So I doubt that The South Pacific is going to struggle to have a good relationship with Lazarus, and that is before you get to that many current or former citizens of Lazarus are citizens in TSP.

*1: Which hurt relations going forward with several regions, including through the HRL and CU.
*2: It could even be argued that having no military at all might be preferable to that, which isn't an uncommon opinion either in Lazarus right now.

[Unibot III]

snip

I won't respond bit by bit because there was a lot to unpack but I think there's a few things that should be said:

• Divergent perspective on the PRL and the Emerald Realm are important here. I see the old Emerald Realm as a failure: it was neutral, sure, but it was also terribly inactive, almost nonfunctional - its "government" was like eight Gameplayers (with focuses elsewhere) caught in a messy political gridlock between the FRA, imperialists, and the NPO. I also don't regard the PRL as a failure, I think, despite Feux, Milograd, and AMOM's best efforts, the PRL was actually an enormous success. The revolution took the most inactive GCR and made it the most active GCR - it pulled in a whole new generation of NSers and gave them their first start in NS. It was voted the most active and important region in the game by others at the time, it also had the most active and the most prominent defender military in NS at the time. The PRL seemed from the outside to be a force of generational change within the game. Every region has political bans (Balder, NES' region, has dozens of political bans) -- I don't regard the PRL leadership as a "cabal," it seemed to me to be a rather open group of some of the 'youngest' NSers leading a GCR in NS who were experimenting, innovating, and reconsidering what a Game-Created Region could be, culturally and politically.
• I think there is a diaspora of players who cut their teeth in the PRL who have never been welcomed back to Lazarus after the crises; their good experience with the PRL is uncomfortable for Lazarenes because it contradicts a foundational myth that today's Lazarus likes to tell: that the PRL was bad, corrupt, exclusive, or compromised ethnically.
• When considering inclusive versus exclusive communities, I think there is a lot more to it than geopolitics -- there's a generational dimension (is the region incorporating/inviting new players into the government?) and an activity dimension (is the region growing? A region can't be inclusive if its leadership is small.)
• I agree with you that if Lazarus were to realign itself with a defender cause that it should form a new multilateral organization/nucleus -- that is global leadership that is missing today and the region that fills that void will gain an enormous political advantage.
• NPO is most certainly neutral. Francoism sees raiding and defending as userite causes/movements - and calls for the NPO and other GCRs to rise above this userite struggle. Francoism is also expansionist, in that it anticipates the unification of the Pacifics (Pacifica) -- so invaders and defenders can be "useful" to NPO in these regards as pawns and temporary political allies or scapegoats, and the means of expansionism can appear to be synonymous with imperialism.