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Ever-Wandering Souls
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Founded: Jan 01, 2014
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Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:21 pm

I'm a little bored, so let's do some coverage of TSP elections.

Yeah, elections are ongoing, in case it wasn't mentioned here enough! After some drama over whether or not to allow secret ballots (yes), the nominations phase began and ended, and now they're into the voting phase.

So what do the races look like?

Prime Minister: Islands of Unity vs The Serres Republic
Foreign Affairs: Glen-Rhodes vs Somyrion
Regional Affairs: Pencil Sharpeners
Military Affairs: Roavin


So what's going on in these races?

Let's start from the least "exciting." Pencil Sharpeners is running a very clean cut campaign, built around consistency and reliability, and pushing for the traditional internal measures. There's not really anything spicy there.

The rest get a little more interesting.

In the MOFA race, Somy is running on a platform of "a positive approach to foreign affairs." Glen is running on goals including revamping the way the FA department works to...what appears to be a similar model but with more people he picks, and aggressively increasing alliances. Glen also wants to "make the cabinet accountable for it's activity" and make internal votes "more transparent." More interestingly, though, both campaigns speak of ignoring this very thread. Somy speaks of "putting the past behind us" and ignoring GP because it's like "channeling our energy towards a brick wall" (oddly enough, we've had a similar experience trying to get any answers from TSP on things!!), while Glen is more aggressive - this thread is "dominated by trolls and enemies, who constantly derail our embassy thread, twist words to stoke controversy, or just “shitpost” as if that’s the main form of interaction in the game." It's a :waste of time: to have a public presence, and TSP should focus on offsite-to-offsite communications. Also, we're threadjacking, baiting, and trolling, but the "NS mods either don’t know how or don’t want to enforce" the rules properly. That's the highlights of that race. Interestingly, you can see some lines forming - Serres endorses Glen.

But that's just the surface.

In the PM race, things are hot. IoU wants to push military neutrality again, strong RA and FA initiatives, and quickly drew wide criticism, largely around inexperience and supposedly vague plans. Meanwhile, Serres wants to push "unity, communication, security." This includes more whole-cabinet efforts to guide ministry missions, more communication in and out of the cabinet, and trying to diversify upper-level involvement, where there appears to be a shortage of qualified and willing people (they might want to look at the people who leave or are run out of that rank). Serres received praise and endorsements from GR and Roavin, with little questions.

Saving the best for last, let's look at the Military role, where things got spicy. How is an unopposed race spicy? We'll get there. Roavin has hinted at a huge secret operation in this thread, which is not couping Balder, yet, supposedly. Where it gets interesting is the third page. Somy shows up, and says the following:

During the past term, you were appointed as the cabinet's representative in the Souls proscription case. After the court decided, it was of the utmost importance for the cabinet to make a statement and re-issue/change the proscriptions. You said that you would rewrite the proscriptions, and refused any assistance in doing so. You told us it was the court that was holding you up. Then you said you could finally write them in about half an hour. Then you went radio silent for over two weeks. I personally asked you what was up during that period no less than five times, and still all we have from you is that you're "working on it". It's the end of the cabinet's term, and we have failed to do the one thing which we should have easily been able to do, just because you stalled us for so long. I can't help but feel frustrated that you, whether intentionally or not, managed to force the cabinet's reaction on the issue for almost an entire month without even being a part of it.

How do you plan to reconcile the fact that you've been highly inactive in the past month with your current bid for a term in the cabinet?

In order to facilitate discussion between the cabinet and yourself, you created a group DM on discord to discuss. Several serious cabinet policy discussions and even preliminary decisions took place there. But when Islands of Unity was elected as MoRA, you specifically said that you wouldn't let him access the DM. Some cabinet decisions were subsequently made in the DM without the input of IoU, because he had no access to it. You later explained that the reason you refused to include IoU is because you thought he might be a spy or other security concern— but you never said that to anyone at the time.

An extremely important part of making a functional cabinet is enabling open communications and collaboration. You have refused to give any details of what you're working on for the proscription to the past term's cabinet, saying only you and Glen could know the evidence and not letting anyone else help you out. You went against the unity of the cabinet to specifically exclude a member you didn't like from communication, and you took such unilateral action based on suspicions you had never shared with anyone, even when they were relevant to regional security. If you, as MoMA, received a piece of evidence or a task to do that was pertinent to the cabinet but which you believed you could do better by yourself than with the rest of the cabinet, what would you do?

Roavin, you are amazing at military gameplay and I have no doubt you would be just as good at leading the SPSF. But a ministerial position is not just about your ministry, it's about the cabinet too. And I have serious reservations about your behaviour dealing there.


Let's summarize that. The cabinet, for some reason or another, appears to have tied the matter of removing false claims about me made in the course of my proscription to concurrent reissuing of a new proscription against me, delegate both off-cabinet to Roavin, and then is blaming him for not actually doing so. Somy also notes that Roavin created a group DM between himself and the cabinet to handle "serious cabinet policy discussions" and "even preliminary deicsions," but refused to allow access to IoU as MORA, who then got left out of formal cabinet decisions made in this secret shadow cabinet, and then back-justified it by claiming he might be a spy. Once more. A shadow cabinet including Roavin, not an elected cabinet member, made formal cabinet decision, while excluding an actual elected cabinet member. Wow! Further, it's said that cabinet proscription-related details were withheld from the currently outgoing actual cabinet by Roavin, member of the prior cabinet, because only Roavin and Glen get the details (but for some reason aren't just issuing their own CRS proscription, as the Proscriptions Act enables). That's a bombshell of a post.

In reply, Roavin placates on the proscriptions matter, saying it is almost done, defends keeping evidence from even the cabinet, further accuses IoU of being a security risk, and overall doesn't really refute anything. Apparently, He and IoU also both posted some logs from this chat where there's some tension over his addition, after Somy put IoU in it anyways...

[5:17 PM] Islands of Unity: Roavin I would like to know why you felt it appropriate to post this and act on it
[5:17 PM] Islands of Unity: (Screenshot of Roavin saying "Islands ain't getting in here.")
[5:17 PM] Somyrion: I'd like to know too.
[5:18 PM] Islands of Unity: This is the thing that hurt me the most
[5:18 PM] Somyrion: I'd appreciate if you'd answer it in your MoMA campaign thread, though.(edited)
[5:18 PM] Roavin: Ask the question there and I'll answer.
[5:18 PM] Roavin: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[5:18 PM] Roavin: You're saying this as if this is some bomb shell that will kill me politically.
[5:18 PM] Roavin: Come on.


...which has led to Roavin reporting both of them for Espionage.

That's about what I've got directly regarding Election Coverage. Hope it was enjoyable. No point tallying votes so far and going into that, given secret ballots.








I'm not done yet, though. Since I've had zero luck getting any response from the Cabinet here in this thread as to why false and defamatory claims against me made by them have remained posted, I decided to ask everyone except Roavin and Glen, whose positions on the matter are loud and well known, about their stance on the matter!

SoulsToday at 12:23 PM
While this is perhaps somewhat outside of the scope of your specific role, if elected to the cabinet as MoRA, would you support a reply from the cabinet to my posts requesting that false and defamatory claims made by the prior cabinet against me and called out by your own court actually get taken down?
Pencil SharpenersToday at 12:26 PM
Probably, but I can't say anything for certain right now. I'd have to see what the situation is/has been in the last term, but this is definitely the sort of thing I'd support.
SoulsToday at 12:28 PM
Thank you. It’s been stunning to me how supposedly complex, work intensive, and time consuming according to the current cabinet the simple matter of “stop accusing me wrongly of blackmail and coercion” has been.


PS was to the point. They'd like to look into giving me a proper response. Thanks, PS!

SoulsToday at 12:21 PM
As a candidate for MoFA, if elected, would you at least direct a reply to my post requesting that false and defamatory claims made by the prior cabinet against me and called out by your own court actually get taken down, rather than publicly ignoring it as the current cabinet has?
SomyrionToday at 2:56 PM
There will not be silence, no. Inaccurate claims will be removed.(edited)
SoulsToday at 2:57 PM
Good to hear, thanks.
Any particular reason no one has replied Such in public?
SomyrionToday at 2:58 PM
Can you view the election threads?
(On the TSP forum that is.)
SoulsToday at 2:59 PM
Yes; I’ve seen the business with Roavin not completing re-issued text.
Have also had comments on that from IOU and Serres when I’ve interviewed them on this matter as well :stuck_out_tongue:
Told serres that there’s absolutely no need for recanting false claims to be reliant on making new ones >.>
SomyrionToday at 3:01 PM
Well, that’s basically why there’s been no official response, then. I don’t think anyone’s forgotten about it though. :stuck_out_tongue:
SoulsToday at 3:01 PM
Noted. Thanks.


Somy basically reiterated that the Cabinet for whatever reason pawned it off to Roavin, and Roavin has not finished it. I remain unsure why removing defamatory claims against me cannot be done before they try to proscribe me again.

The next two conversations are longs.

SoulsToday at 12:02 PM
Asking this of both PM candidates - if elected, would you at least direct a reply to my post requesting that false and defamatory claims made by the prior cabinet against me and called out by your own court actually get taken down, rather than ignoring it as the current cabinet has?
Islands of UnityToday at 12:04 PM
I have no idea who you are
like i have no stake in it
SoulsToday at 12:04 PM
Hahaha, okay, maybe I should have provided more on that
Islands of UnityToday at 12:04 PM
so yes i have no political reason to oppose transparency
SoulsToday at 12:05 PM
I’m the dude that the current cabinet, before you were added to it, proscribed very poorly, probably based largely on very poor information from the cabinet prior to them and without fact checking.
Who then won a court case saying as much
Where the decision by the high court specifically called out the cabinet and it’s representative as not being trustworthy or reliable in this matter
After being repeatedly caught in falsehoods.
High court struck my proscription down
And I’ve been asking ever since that the cabinet actually follow through and remove the false and defamatory claims of things like blackmail against me from places including the NS forums
Islands of UnityToday at 12:07 PM
what region do you represent?
SoulsToday at 12:07 PM
And have been utterly ignored
In this matter, just myself.
The individual.
Islands of UnityToday at 12:07 PM
you personally were prescribed?
not your region as a whole?
SoulsToday at 12:09 PM
Yes
Islands of UnityToday at 12:11 PM
are you guilty of anything?
SoulsToday at 12:12 PM
According to your courts, no.
Which is why I’m upset that the claims against me stand, not just becuase they’ve been ruled invalid, but becuase some are particularly and personally damaging lies.
Islands of UnityToday at 12:13 PM
so i will be seeking them to remove the lies as determined by the courts
(but between us have you done anything?)(edited)
SoulsToday at 12:14 PM
Nothing that’s worthy of a proscription, and certainly nothing worthy of being publicly accused of blackmail falsely!
SoulsToday at 12:24 PM
So you would in fact move to remove the false claims? Was that your answer there?
Just wanted to be clear.
Islands of UnityToday at 12:24 PM
if they are in fact false then yes
ill sort that out if i do become pm
SoulsToday at 12:27 PM
They’ve been proven false both in public and in court, and In the case of the blackmail accusation, admitted false by the legal representative of the cabinet.
Yet they still stand.
Islands of UnityToday at 12:28 PM
Ill look into it
can you link me some stuff on the issue?
SoulsToday at 12:32 PM
Sure.

The posted accusations - viewtopic.php?p=34403294#p34403294
You should read most of the thread from this point.
My recent post - viewtopic.php?p=34696824#p34696824
The court case - http://tspforums.xyz/thread-6363.html
Islands of UnityToday at 12:33 PM
what region are you from?
SoulsToday at 12:35 PM
Well, once upon a time I was a TSP native, booted by Milograd during his coup. Since then, I’ve called places including Black Mesa islands, the eternal knights, sicarius, BoM, TBH, and TRR home.
Islands of UnityToday at 12:35 PM
tbh?
SoulsToday at 12:35 PM
TBH = The black hawks
Islands of UnityToday at 12:36 PM
BoM?
SoulsToday at 12:37 PM
Brotherhood of malice. defuct RP and raiding region. Same as sicarius.
Islands of UnityToday at 12:37 PM
do you "hate" the south pacific?
SoulsToday at 12:38 PM
I don’t like many of the “old guard” present, nor their eternal grip on the governance of the region to varying degrees
Islands of UnityToday at 12:39 PM
what is your opinion of my new movement?
my populist dm fueled administration
SoulsToday at 12:40 PM
I’ve heard positive things about you in the past from Yuno, and beyond that I have little opinion.
Though that fact that you appear to be at odds with GR and Roavin both looks appealing to me and puts you at risk :stuck_out_tongue:
Islands of UnityToday at 12:40 PM
Thanks
well i might be forced out soon, where should i go? like where do you recommend?
SoulsToday at 12:41 PM
Wherever you’ll have fun, mate.
Can’t say I expected this to go this direction xD
Islands of UnityToday at 12:42 PM
i think you know what i mean without me saying it(edited)
what is the awnser
SoulsToday at 12:44 PM
What?
Islands of UnityToday at 12:45 PM
What region is like tsp, but not tsp
SoulsToday at 12:47 PM
Most GCR and a few large UCR’s will have politics you could get involved in. It really depends on which elements you particularly desire.
Islands of UnityToday at 12:47 PM
Well anyway ill read up on your case
SoulsToday at 12:48 PM
Thank you. Surprised you haven’t heard of it, given that other members of the current cabinet swear that y’all have been hard at work already fixing things (without explaining what takes so much work)
Islands of UnityToday at 12:50 PM
Ha
They exclude me because im populist
SoulsToday at 12:52 PM
So you’re saying that the rest of the current cabinet has soeucifcoaly excluded you from certain pertinent current matters, and worked around you?(edited)
Islands of UnityToday at 12:52 PM
Im not just saying it, im being tried as a criminal for proving it!
http://tspforums.xyz/thread-6525.html
see also the last 3 comments on this page
http://tspforums.xyz/thread-6509-page-3.html
But im not gonna comment on whether or not ive come across your case before, for several reasons
Islands of UnityToday at 1:04 PM
you see what i mean right?
SoulsToday at 1:11 PM
That’s interesting.
Are you saying you’ve only heard about it from this chat excluding you but leaked to you?
That’s essentially a shadow cabinet excluding you in favor of Roavin?
Islands of UnityToday at 1:12 PM
no im not gonna comment on whether or not i saw your case before it was brought to me by you
SoulsToday at 1:12 PM
Mm.
Islands of UnityToday at 1:12 PM
that's pretty much what it was before i was added there
SoulsToday at 1:13 PM
Well, thank you for taking this question about your campaign.


IoU seemed out of the loop, probably due to appealingly being excluded from the shadow cabinet with Roavin for most of his term. That said, he promised me some progress!

SoulsToday at 12:03 PM
Asking this of both PM candidates - if elected, would you at least direct a reply to my post requesting that false and defamatory claims made by the prior cabinet against me and called out by your own court actually get taken down, rather than ignoring it as the current cabinet has?
Ner0Today at 12:07 PM
We have not been ignoring it :o The entire cabinet is pushing to get that statement edited to be less defamatory in private channels at my behest. Im not announcing anything publicly until we have a professional and properly developed statement that is both tangible and satisfying for those offended. The big reason the original statement was so silly was because it was rushed. I'm not make that mistake with my own initiative.
SoulsToday at 12:08 PM
You’ve been ignoring it as far as the public is concerned :stuck_out_tongue: certainly hasn’t been any reply to me asking twice saying even “working on it”
But, noted.
Ner0Today at 12:08 PM
Again, Im not going to publicly defame the courts and throw TSP in to a state of even higher chaos.
That behavior got us here and it isnt going to get us out.
SoulsToday at 12:09 PM
I also don’t see how it takes months to strike out text that’s false and defamatory - even if you want to replace it, that can be a seperate matter entirely.(edited)
Not sure where “defame the courts” comes into it
The courts backed me in this
The courts pointed out that the cabinet did get caught telling lies.
Ner0Today at 12:09 PM
;p I cant say anything more until a official change has been put in.
Keep in mind that I was brought into the cabinet a month ago and have been working on this for only a week and a hlaf, once it was brought to me by people that preffer to stay anonymous. We have made great strides since I've been put on the case and made aware of the details of the issue.
I can not give you an expected date for an official response since we are in election season and all complex ministry work is on halt due to that.
However, my first priority is releasing that statement and fixing that proscription upon being elected.
Islands will not do that for you, I can guarantee it.
SoulsToday at 12:12 PM
Even now, you’re promising the cabinet as a body is on top of this and working on it, while the other PM candidate and active cabinet member is literally asking me who I am and what the hell I am talking about.
Which doesn’t look good on either of you or the body.
Ner0Today at 12:12 PM
Because Islands has been in politics for a month Souls.
He does not have the knowledge or skill set to properly tackle this issue, if you actually want your name cleared, I am the better choice. That is objective fact.
SoulsToday at 12:13 PM
Point being, if the cabinet is indeed working on this, how come the cabinet doesn’t know who I am?
Ner0Today at 12:14 PM
Literally just ISlands doesn't know who you are, which should prove to you how he will be unable to get you justice ;p
Anyways, believe me or not, but if I get in, you will get the edits you want, to the best of our ability as a region.
SoulsToday at 12:16 PM
How about y’all just go and take the bits about coercion and blackmail at least out now? Would take a minute, and even without apologizing for that travesty, at least be a step in the right direction.
I really fail to understand how hard it is to stop accusing me of blackmail and coercion.
Ner0Today at 12:16 PM
Because the cabinet doesnt have that authority. The courts do.
SoulsToday at 12:17 PM
The courts ruled the proscription invalid, and the cabinet has told me in past conversations that they can keep the announcement up if they want becuase the courts can’t say what they can or cannot say, only if I can be banned
By that metric, the cabinet can stop saying I’ve done these things any time
I’m not sure why the hell the courts are needed further to undo the words of the cabinet
If you can point me to where the fuck I’d have standing to ask that, I’ll gladly file a case.
Ner0Today at 12:18 PM
Because TSP law is complicated and a little silly at times.
anyways, you've already filed a case by coming to the cabinet and the courts.
SoulsToday at 12:19 PM
A case which I won, yes.
Ner0Today at 12:19 PM
and as I've said before, expect changes to the proscription very soon after the election cycle !
Can't go into more detail because I don't want to appear unorganized later ;p
SoulsToday at 12:20 PM
Will these changes include remove false and defamatory claims against me and apologizing for making them without evidence?
Ner0Today at 12:20 PM
Think of it like a christmas present, no peaking until the day comes ;p
Im being coy, because I know how frustrating this is for you. I apologize if it isn't helping. Speaking as a legislator, not as a cabinet member, I genuinely have disagreed with the way these proscriptions were worded and handled from the onset. I have fought them at every turn and finally we are seeing the harvest of that battle. I need to handle these final steps discreetly and professionally if I actually want to see your name cleared. I am behaving this way because I care about the way TSP treats foreigners, Ally and Enemy alike. You were treated unfairly in these proscriptions and it is my goal to fix them. I am here cleaning up the mess of those that came before me. Please understand that I am handling this in the way that is best for you.
SoulsToday at 12:25 PM
The way that’s best for me at any point since these statements were frivolously made and shot down first in public, then in court, would be any way that gets the false claims removed as fast as possible.
Again, I fail to see what’s so complex, work intensive, and time consumingin “stop accusing me wrongly of blackmail and coercion”
Ner0Today at 12:28 PM
False, if we rush these changes out they will be just as harmful as the original proscription. I want to give you a quality edit, not a messy rushed one.
And it's complex because Im working in a democracy
there are 14 people that have to unilateraly agree with the changes before we can poublicly post them.
SoulsToday at 12:29 PM
You don’t need an edit. They’ve been struck down, and/or proven as lies. Remove them. If you must, replace them with something new later, and I can fight that too. But you don’t need to “edit” damaging lies, you need to remove them
Ner0Today at 12:30 PM
edit the original proscription so that those statements arent in them
is what I meant by edit
SoulsToday at 12:33 PM
Then this matter continues to be massively over-complicated.
Ner0Today at 12:35 PM
welcome to democracy ;p
SoulsToday at 12:35 PM
I don’t understand how it takes more than the cabinet to say “the cabinet said something wrong and we take it back sorry”
Ner0Today at 12:38 PM
because every has to say 'yes' before we can announce that publicly, which means waiting for inactive ppl, debating with ridiculous ppl, re writing stuff for picky ppl, ect..
SoulsToday at 12:38 PM
There’s four of you.
And you’ve said lies about me.
What part of “stop lying about me” is controversial and difficult?
Ner0Today at 12:39 PM
4 cabinet members, 3 court members, 3 crs members, 3 admin members
All of us have to agree ;p
SoulsToday at 12:41 PM
Why do the court, CRS, and admin team need to have any involvement with the cabinet removing lies that the cabinet unilaterally delivered?
In a cabinet announcement
Signed by the cabinet
And no one else
Ner0Today at 12:42 PM
because it was a proscription and turned into both a security and court case after being issued as a result.
well first security case, then court case once you stepped up to fight it lol
SoulsToday at 12:43 PM
That doesn’t make sense. Them having involvement in future proscriptions, sure, but there’s no sense in them having any involvement in whether or not the cabinet removes false claims in an already-stricken-down proscription.(edited)
There should be no necessary tie at all between any issue of “souls is or is not a security threat” and “the cabinet said untrue things about souls in an official release”
Again, I entirely fail to understand how any of these bodies, or even any ongoing question of how TSP wants to consider me, has any impact, say, or sway on the cabinet removing false and defamatory statements against me.
SoulsToday at 12:58 PM
Per public threads, your story seems to line up with the timeline where Roavin is attempting to re-issue proscriptions for the cabinet, despite not currently being on it, in coordination with bodies like the court.(edited)
So again, there’s absolutely no need for “reissuing” and “removing the defamation from the old ones” to be done in the same stroke, or for the former to delay the latter indefinitely.
Ner0Today at 1:01 PM
Because that is our law and we have to follow it.
It's right in the charter for how this needs to be handled.
SoulsToday at 1:02 PM
Could you cite that for me?
The part that says all these bodies are necessary for the cabinet to revoke statements it made, or make a superceeding one?
Ner0Today at 1:03 PM
>.> Im at work right now and really dont want to go digging for the exact text
SoulsToday at 1:04 PM
well, I can cite your law for you right now
Ner0Today at 1:07 PM
ooh sneaky boi with your spys :o
SoulsToday at 1:08 PM
The proscription act authorizes either the cabinet, the CRS, or a combination thereof to issue proscriptions.

The Cabinet or the Council on Regional Security may proscribe a individual that is not a member of the South Pacific, or a foreign region or organization, that they determine to be hostile. The Cabinet together with the Council on Regional Security may proscribe a member or a domestic organization that they determine to be hostile.


As repeatedly stated here, the issuing authority for these proscriptions was “the cabinet” and only “the cabinet.” viewtopic.php?p=34403294#p34403294

The proscription act also states
The issuing authority of a proscription may revoke it at any time. For proscriptions issued by the Cabinet only, the Assembly may revoke a proscription by a supermajority vote.


Thus the issuing authority, the cabinet, can revoke this proscription at any time, and presumably thus also revoke content therein, even if the court has already legally revoked the proscription as a ban.
Spies? What? Your law is public.
There’s no legal basis for requirement that bodies other than the cabinet approve of the cabinet revoking false claims in this proscription
Further, given that the court has already overruled the proscription and rendered it null and void, all the cabinet revoking it now would do is remove the false claims.
It would not change anything else at all, given that due to the court ruling, the proscription is literally only empty words.
Ner0Today at 1:16 PM
Unfortunately the authorities behind the proscription were the court, the crs and the cabinet ;p Seeing as how three of the people behind the original draft are on 2 or all three of those authorities.
which is another big reason this is so complicated, all of the understaffing that forces us to put the same person in multiple high levels of government. Something I aim to correct in my cmpaign.
SoulsToday at 1:17 PM
That is not what the formal release states, nor does the court even have authority to issue proscriptions.
Ner0Today at 1:17 PM
so as to avoid this nonsense in the future
SoulsToday at 1:17 PM
The proscription is quite clearly issued only by the cabinet.
Ner0Today at 1:18 PM
Regardless. The only reason this hasn't been released yet is because we are in election season.
SoulsToday at 1:18 PM
“Cabinet of the South Pacific
Proscriptions


The Cabinet has unanimously agreed to enact the following proscriptions.”
Ner0Today at 1:18 PM
As I've said four times now
SoulsToday at 1:18 PM
Not the cabinet and the CRS
The cabinet, unanimously.
Ner0Today at 1:18 PM
the moment we are out of elections we are dealing with this.
SoulsToday at 1:18 PM
Noted.
Ner0Today at 1:18 PM
Anyways, we are just going to argue in circles if we keep this up
SoulsToday at 1:20 PM
Correct, becuase you just move to another excuse every time I prove one invalid or ask for an explanation of how it makes any sense.
Ner0Today at 1:23 PM
Dude, I don't know how many times I have to tell you this.
I am on your side with alot of your arguements. I was appointed as an emergency MoFA in a messy situation I didn't fully understand.
I have gotten a grasp of the situation and am now literally on the cusp of fixing this entire issue.
Don't bite the hand that feeds you ;p
SoulsToday at 1:25 PM
“It’ll be done as soon as the election is over” is the best reply, and the most recent in a long series of “it’ll be fixed soon” promises without progress or good reason as to why it can’t have been done before or now.
Excuse me if I’m less than trusting in that answer again, with ever-more dodging alongside it.(edited)
Ner0Today at 1:25 PM
Because I can't tell you anything until it is publicly done, as you do not have authority to have the information until it is released publicly.
SoulsToday at 1:27 PM
And that’s where we go back to “what’s so difficult or restricted about removing lies about me that has taken months?”
Your reasons make more sense for re-issuing
But not for just removing the lies
Ner0Today at 1:28 PM
almost like we're doing both of those things at once, in order to get it done in the most efficient manner possible
SoulsToday at 1:29 PM
>> There should be no necessary tie at all between any issue of “souls is or is not a security threat” and “the cabinet said untrue things about souls in an official release”
>> So again, there’s absolutely no need for “reissuing” and “removing the defamation from the old ones” to be done in the same stroke, or for the former to delay the latter indefinitely.
There’s no time pressure on re-issuing while meanwhile every day defamatory statements against me remain up continues to hurt me.
You also tried to tell me that re-issuing was not involved with this.
Ner0Today at 1:31 PM
I never intended to dothat :o, I must have misunderstood your meaning in one of your previous statements
Fair, after elections are over I will rush the take down of those statements over the re-issuing statement.
SoulsToday at 1:34 PM
That’s something, at least.
Ner0Today at 1:34 PM
Give me specific quotes from the statement and I'll convince the cabinet to agree to take it down, or just do it independetally cuz the PM is op now.
just throw them in here and I'll snip them out once I've done the cabinet end of stuff ;p
SoulsToday at 1:36 PM
Most jarringly -
The proscription claims I attempted to “coerce Imki.” This is false and your court agrees.
The statement claims I tried to blackmail someone. Roavin on behalf of the cabinet has outright admitted that that is false.
Less strikingly; all claims made were ruled false, irrelevant, or unproven.
Ner0Today at 1:40 PM
Alright, if Im elected I'll do these things up for you.


The conversation I had with Serres was kinda slippery. I got a lot of big promises, but also a lot of excuses told and contradicting stories. I was less than satisfied. The whole cabinet has been working on it, but IoU doesn't know about it? The Cabinet can't stop defaming be because doing so could be "rushed" even after months? For some reason I *never* got a proper explanation for, the CRS and Courts need to all approve the cabinet removing lies about my character? This is in the law, despite me actually citing law to the contrary? I got accused of spying for citing public information? Maybe I can get a rapid removal of false claims post-election even if the re-issuing is not done? This hasn't been done any of the prior times I've asked such, because....?

Well, you're welcome to read all these, and consider how different people answered the same question.

Now that is all I have.
Last edited by Ever-Wandering Souls on Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Proud Raider; General of The Black Hawks
TG me anytime; I'm always happy to talk about anything!

The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

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King HEM
Envoy
 
Posts: 277
Founded: Mar 07, 2007
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby King HEM » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:46 pm

"Groups like the Independent Joint Command Coalition and its signatories want to isolate our community, so it’s never been more important to keep our alliances strong."

uh.

What has the IJCC even done in regards to TSP, ever, lol?

I think some people in TSP have circled the wagons and just succumbed to a victim complex. I hope it's not everyone, because it'd be a great shame.
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Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
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Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:04 pm

So much for TSP being NationStates' oldest democratic GCR. You lose any claim to being democratic when unelected elites decide, of their own accord without consulting anyone, to disregard a person voters selected for their Cabinet -- because the elites have decided they aren't trustworthy.

I would say I hope this prompts some soul-searching in TSP about the role of your entrenched elites, but that never happens.
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Ever-Wandering Souls
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6361
Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:07 pm

Cormactopia Prime wrote:So much for TSP being NationStates' oldest democratic GCR. You lose any claim to being democratic when unelected elites decide, of their own accord without consulting anyone, to disregard a person voters selected for their Cabinet -- because the elites have decided they aren't trustworthy.

I would say I hope this prompts some soul-searching in TSP about the role of your entrenched elites, but that never happens.


I also have some deep questions about why exactly the cabinet is issuing proscriptions that they're not being allowed to see evidence for, just following directions from ex-cabinet-members and other bodies. The CRS is perfectly able per the Proscriptions Act to issue it's own proscriptions without using the Cabinet as a scapegoat, if they want to act unilaterally. The way these were handled just looks worse the more we know. No wonder the Cabinet had Roavin represent them in court, and members seemed to barely be following the case when I asked them about it while it was ongoing - it seems that the entire matter has been pawned off to people outside the cabinet, under the cabinet's name. It's really terrible how little accountability there has been for any of this.

See, discussions like this are why both MoFA candidates want to pretend this thread doesn't exist :P
Last edited by Ever-Wandering Souls on Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

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How Do I Telegram API?

Omnis delenda est.

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Cosmopolitan borovan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1033
Founded: Jan 18, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Cosmopolitan borovan » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:35 pm

Islands of UnityToday at 12:04 PM
I have no idea who you are

Interesting

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RiderSyl
Senator
 
Posts: 4802
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:42 pm

I feel sorry for Islands of Unity.

Get out of TSP while you still have some shred of sanity left.
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McManniaa
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Founded: Feb 24, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby McManniaa » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:31 am

This whole situation smells a lot more like a putin esque oligarchy than an open and transparent democracy. Secret cabinet chats that exclude certain elected cabinet members from decision making over vague and unfounded accusations isn’t very democratic.

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Armaros
Diplomat
 
Posts: 628
Founded: Apr 06, 2018
Father Knows Best State

Postby Armaros » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:27 am

1. what? They left out a democratically elected member because one of them didn't trust IoU?
2. is it just me, or are the same people running again? Might be wrong on this one, I don't onow TSP well enough.
3. apperently it's this hard to remove 2 false accusations, which would take about a minute.
4. Serres managed to turn a question ("will you remove the false and damaging accusations if elected") into "vote for me because the other certainly won't"
5. I might be the only one, but I'm a little concerned seeing Roavin as the only candidate for Military Affairs, given Somyrion's evidence. And of course the fact that Roavin excluded a democratically elected member of the cabinet from the discord where things were handled from (as far as I get it).
All of this together doesn't look pretty.
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Roavin
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Roavin » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:40 am

Armaros wrote:1. what? They left out a democratically elected member because one of them didn't trust IoU?

Armaros wrote:5. I might be the only one, but I'm a little concerned seeing Roavin as the only candidate for Military Affairs, given Somyrion's evidence. And of course the fact that Roavin excluded a democratically elected member of the cabinet from the discord where things were handled from (as far as I get it).


IoU had full access to the normal cabinet office and all of that. This just concerns a group DM that was used for communication between Cabinet and myself, started before IoU even got into Cabinet.

Also, it wasn't that just I didn't or don't trust IoU. I don't feel like repeating myself so I'll just refer to my campaign answer.

Armaros wrote:2. is it just me, or are the same people running again? Might be wrong on this one, I don't onow TSP well enough.


Glen had been MoFA (which he last was in Jun-Oct 2016) and I had been MoMA (which I was Oct 2016 to Feb 2017) before, neither of us are currently in Cabinet, though. Serres, IoU, and Somy are not new to Cabinet, having served as interim MoFA, interim MoRA, and two-term MoMA, respectively. Pencil Sharpeners will be a Cabinet newcomer. If I lose to RON (or drop out for other reasons, which isn't too unlikely), MoMA will likely go to USoVietnam, who had previously held that position Feb-Jun 2017.

TL;DR: There won't be any incumbents, but three of four will have served in Cabinet at some point previously.

Armaros wrote:All of this together doesn't look pretty.


Nope. TSP hasn't been particularly pretty for a few months for a myriad of reasons (and I certainly share some of the blame). With Serres and Pencil Sharpeners heading into Cabinet and the upcoming moderation changes, we're on track to being better again, though.

I'm quite optimistic GP will go back to just "normally" hating TSP by next year. :P
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RiderSyl
Senator
 
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Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:03 am

Roavin wrote:Also, it wasn't that just I didn't or don't trust IoU. I don't feel like repeating myself so I'll just refer to my campaign answer.


To TL;DR the campaign answer:

On not sharing the suspicions about IoU: I wasn't the only one that thought this. I told other security people about this. Lots of them. I'm serious about this stuff. Trust me. Those people I told can confirm that I told them.

On not inviting IoU to the group DM: There's more info in a Discord chat somewhere, but here's the short version. IoU was officially suspected of running in an election just so they could do spy-related stuff. I didn't invite them to the group DM because of that, even though the group DM wasn't really important. I'm not resentful over this. I just filed those charges out of... not appreciating stuff. I think I had a legitimate reason to leave them out of it.
Last edited by RiderSyl on Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:11 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Ever-Wandering Souls
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6361
Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:27 am

Armaros wrote:1. what? They left out a democratically elected member because one of them didn't trust IoU?
2. is it just me, or are the same people running again? Might be wrong on this one, I don't onow TSP well enough.
3. apperently it's this hard to remove 2 false accusations, which would take about a minute.
4. Serres managed to turn a question ("will you remove the false and damaging accusations if elected") into "vote for me because the other certainly won't"
5. I might be the only one, but I'm a little concerned seeing Roavin as the only candidate for Military Affairs, given Somyrion's evidence. And of course the fact that Roavin excluded a democratically elected member of the cabinet from the discord where things were handled from (as far as I get it).
All of this together doesn't look pretty.

Roavin wrote:
Armaros wrote:1. what? They left out a democratically elected member because one of them didn't trust IoU?

Armaros wrote:5. I might be the only one, but I'm a little concerned seeing Roavin as the only candidate for Military Affairs, given Somyrion's evidence. And of course the fact that Roavin excluded a democratically elected member of the cabinet from the discord where things were handled from (as far as I get it).


IoU had full access to the normal cabinet office and all of that. This just concerns a group DM that was used for communication between Cabinet and myself, started before IoU even got into Cabinet.

Also, it wasn't that just I didn't or don't trust IoU. I don't feel like repeating myself so I'll just refer to my campaign answer.

Armaros wrote:2. is it just me, or are the same people running again? Might be wrong on this one, I don't onow TSP well enough.


Glen had been MoFA (which he last was in Jun-Oct 2016) and I had been MoMA (which I was Oct 2016 to Feb 2017) before, neither of us are currently in Cabinet, though. Serres, IoU, and Somy are not new to Cabinet, having served as interim MoFA, interim MoRA, and two-term MoMA, respectively. Pencil Sharpeners will be a Cabinet newcomer. If I lose to RON (or drop out for other reasons, which isn't too unlikely), MoMA will likely go to USoVietnam, who had previously held that position Feb-Jun 2017.

TL;DR: There won't be any incumbents, but three of four will have served in Cabinet at some point previously.

Armaros wrote:All of this together doesn't look pretty.


Nope. TSP hasn't been particularly pretty for a few months for a myriad of reasons (and I certainly share some of the blame). With Serres and Pencil Sharpeners heading into Cabinet and the upcoming moderation changes, we're on track to being better again, though.

I'm quite optimistic GP will go back to just "normally" hating TSP by next year. :P
RiderSyl wrote:
Roavin wrote:Also, it wasn't that just I didn't or don't trust IoU. I don't feel like repeating myself so I'll just refer to my campaign answer.


To TL;DR the campaign answer:

On not sharing the suspicions about IoU: I wasn't the only one that thought this. I told other security people about this. Lots of them. I'm serious about this stuff. Trust me. Those people I told can confirm that I told them.

On not inviting IoU to the group DM: There's more info in a Discord chat somewhere, but here's the short version. IoU was officially suspected of running in an election just so they could do spy-related stuff. I didn't invite them to the group DM because of that, even though the group DM wasn't really important. I'm not resentful over this. I just filed those charges out of... not appreciating stuff. I think I had a legitimate reason to leave them out of it.


The problem with all this regarding the chat, is that claims like the chat wasn’t important, or distraction like “he was still in the cabinet proper,” disregards what Somy initially claimed -

In order to facilitate discussion between the cabinet and yourself, you created a group DM on discord to discuss. Several serious cabinet policy discussions and even preliminary decisions took place there. But when Islands of Unity was elected as MoRA, you specifically said that you wouldn't let him access the DM. Some cabinet decisions were subsequently made in the DM without the input of IoU, because he had no access to it. You later explained that the reason you refused to include IoU is because you thought he might be a spy or other security concern— but you never said that to anyone at the time.

An extremely important part of making a functional cabinet is enabling open communications and collaboration. You have refused to give any details of what you're working on for the proscription to the past term's cabinet, saying only you and Glen could know the evidence and not letting anyone else help you out. You went against the unity of the cabinet to specifically exclude a member you didn't like from communication, and you took such unilateral action based on suspicions you had never shared with anyone, even when they were relevant to regional security. If you, as MoMA, received a piece of evidence or a task to do that was pertinent to the cabinet but which you believed you could do better by yourself than with the rest of the cabinet, what would you do?

Roavin, you are amazing at military gameplay and I have no doubt you would be just as good at leading the SPSF. But a ministerial position is not just about your ministry, it's about the cabinet too. And I have serious reservations about your behaviour dealing there.


Regarding 2 - yes, Somy, Serres, and IoU are all currently on the cabinet.

3 - I KNOW RIGHT?

4 - Serres did answer the question eventually; I was more left unhappy by the dodging and evasiveness regarding the truth and the content of answers given.
Proud Raider; General of The Black Hawks
TG me anytime; I'm always happy to talk about anything!

The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative

How Do I Telegram API?

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Pencil Sharpeners 2
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 431
Founded: Aug 21, 2015
Father Knows Best State

Postby Pencil Sharpeners 2 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:02 pm

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:Let's start from the least "exciting." Pencil Sharpeners is running a very clean cut campaign, built around consistency and reliability, and pushing for the traditional internal measures. There's not really anything spicy there.

Well this is sadly true :(
I wish someone had run against me; would have at least made it a little more interesting.
Armaros wrote:2. is it just me, or are the same people running again? Might be wrong on this one, I don't onow TSP well enough.

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Aumeltopia
Secretary
 
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Founded: Apr 02, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Aumeltopia » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:00 pm

Firstly— I don’t want to make a big deal about it, but in the future I would appreciate if you’d check with me before posting publically a private chat log with me. No hard feelings though. :)

Secondly— my goal in aiming to move away from focusing on Gameplay/the GP thread is not to give you guys all the finger, but because in many cases arguing here becomes a time sink that distracts from more productive activities. I think we can all, regardless of our political position, agree that whatever else GP may be, it is not especially productive. :P That said, comments from all of you are helpful, critique is informing, but ultimately GPers are not the ones to whom the TSP government is responsible. When it does get like a brick wall on here, it isn’t our duty to justify everything and keep the dialogue up as it is with TSP citizens. I know you guys get frustrated at us for having been like a brick wall in the past on here, so hopefully all that makes some sense. :P
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Ever-Wandering Souls
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6361
Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:37 pm

Aumeltopia wrote:Firstly— I don’t want to make a big deal about it, but in the future I would appreciate if you’d check with me before posting publically a private chat log with me. No hard feelings though. :)


Thought the interview format made it clear enough, sorry.

Aumeltopia wrote:Secondly— my goal in aiming to move away from focusing on Gameplay/the GP thread is not to give you guys all the finger, but because in many cases arguing here becomes a time sink that distracts from more productive activities. I think we can all, regardless of our political position, agree that whatever else GP may be, it is not especially productive. :P That said, comments from all of you are helpful, critique is informing, but ultimately GPers are not the ones to whom the TSP government is responsible. When it does get like a brick wall on here, it isn’t our duty to justify everything and keep the dialogue up as it is with TSP citizens. I know you guys get frustrated at us for having been like a brick wall in the past on here, so hopefully all that makes some sense. :P


There's a large gap between totally ignoring and just wasting time - a gap which contains making at least an effort to have a productive conversation, accountability, etc. Additionally, external accountability may not be *required,* per se, but it sure helps your place in the world.

Meanwhile, on the latter - I'm pretty sure there remain plenty of less-than-fully-answered questions and concerns from TSP legislators regarding the situation with Tim and Escade, including in the thread announcing their ban.
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The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

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Glen-Rhodes
Powerbroker
 
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Founded: Jun 25, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:54 am

McManniaa wrote:This whole situation smells a lot more like a putin esque oligarchy than an open and transparent democracy. Secret cabinet chats that exclude certain elected cabinet members from decision making over vague and unfounded accusations isn’t very democratic.


Neither is violating a GCR’s sovereignty, but that didn’t stop you, so I guess your commentary isn’t worth much.

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RiderSyl
Senator
 
Posts: 4802
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:03 am

Glen-Rhodes wrote:
McManniaa wrote:This whole situation smells a lot more like a putin esque oligarchy than an open and transparent democracy. Secret cabinet chats that exclude certain elected cabinet members from decision making over vague and unfounded accusations isn’t very democratic.


Neither is violating a GCR’s sovereignty, but that didn’t stop you, so I guess your commentary isn’t worth much.


It could be argued that his experience with undemocratic methods makes his commentary more valuable. :p
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Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
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Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:56 am

Glen-Rhodes wrote:
McManniaa wrote:This whole situation smells a lot more like a putin esque oligarchy than an open and transparent democracy. Secret cabinet chats that exclude certain elected cabinet members from decision making over vague and unfounded accusations isn’t very democratic.


Neither is violating a GCR’s sovereignty, but that didn’t stop you, so I guess your commentary isn’t worth much.

The difference is that, unlike TSP, his region didn't claim to be democratic. The issue, for me at least, is how fake your so-called democracy is.

In any event, if you're going to campaign on supposedly ignoring this forum, don't you think you should start now to demonstrate to the people who are voting for you with that in mind that you're serious? Because personally I think you lack the self-control to ignore this forum.
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Ever-Wandering Souls
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6361
Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:06 am

Glen-Rhodes wrote:
McManniaa wrote:This whole situation smells a lot more like a putin esque oligarchy than an open and transparent democracy. Secret cabinet chats that exclude certain elected cabinet members from decision making over vague and unfounded accusations isn’t very democratic.


Neither is violating a GCR’s sovereignty, but that didn’t stop you, so I guess your commentary isn’t worth much.


"Your post is not wrong, so I'm just going to attack the poster and say you're not worth listening to."
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TG me anytime; I'm always happy to talk about anything!

The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

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How Do I Telegram API?

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Jar Wattinree
Diplomat
 
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Founded: Dec 14, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Jar Wattinree » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:26 pm

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
Glen-Rhodes wrote:Neither is violating a GCR’s sovereignty, but that didn’t stop you, so I guess your commentary isn’t worth much.


"Your post is not wrong, so I'm just going to attack the poster and say you're not worth listening to."

No ad hominem I can see, just "Meh, there's nothing you said that comes close to mark".
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Hesskin Empire
Attaché
 
Posts: 67
Founded: Jan 30, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Hesskin Empire » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:59 pm

Glen-Rhodes wrote:
McManniaa wrote:This whole situation smells a lot more like a putin esque oligarchy than an open and transparent democracy. Secret cabinet chats that exclude certain elected cabinet members from decision making over vague and unfounded accusations isn’t very democratic.


Neither is violating a GCR’s sovereignty, but that didn’t stop you, so I guess your commentary isn’t worth much.

His region didn't pretend to be your ally or anything, they spied on your region. But that's not the point here, you're trying to a)distract the thread and b)attack McMan in some petty form it seems

TSP continues to amaze me tbh, with just how bad they can keep getting and how they can still even try to call themselves a democracy, truly NationState's Russia imo. :clap:
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RiderSyl
Senator
 
Posts: 4802
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:04 am

It was the dark side of meme magic.
We memed TSP as a toxic oligarchy for so long that it actually became one.
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Ever-Wandering Souls
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6361
Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:10 am

Cormactopia Prime wrote:
Glen-Rhodes wrote:
Neither is violating a GCR’s sovereignty, but that didn’t stop you, so I guess your commentary isn’t worth much.

The difference is that, unlike TSP, his region didn't claim to be democratic. The issue, for me at least, is how fake your so-called democracy is.

In any event, if you're going to campaign on supposedly ignoring this forum, don't you think you should start now to demonstrate to the people who are voting for you with that in mind that you're serious? Because personally I think you lack the self-control to ignore this forum.


"To be frank, the problem isn’t that we aren’t educating people. The problem is that we allow people with no real buy-in to vote in the first place." - Glen
Proud Raider; General of The Black Hawks
TG me anytime; I'm always happy to talk about anything!

The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative

How Do I Telegram API?

Omnis delenda est.

User avatar
Consular
Minister
 
Posts: 3026
Founded: Apr 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Consular » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:43 pm

Does anyone remember when Roavin had values?

Glen-Rhodes wrote:
McManniaa wrote:This whole situation smells a lot more like a putin esque oligarchy than an open and transparent democracy. Secret cabinet chats that exclude certain elected cabinet members from decision making over vague and unfounded accusations isn’t very democratic.


Neither is violating a GCR’s sovereignty, but that didn’t stop you, so I guess your commentary isn’t worth much.

Yeah well I haven't violated a GCR's sovereignty and I think TSP is looking pretty trashed up right now too, so you can toss that deflection in the bin.
Last edited by Consular on Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
Posts: 2362
Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:33 pm

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
Cormactopia Prime wrote:The difference is that, unlike TSP, his region didn't claim to be democratic. The issue, for me at least, is how fake your so-called democracy is.

In any event, if you're going to campaign on supposedly ignoring this forum, don't you think you should start now to demonstrate to the people who are voting for you with that in mind that you're serious? Because personally I think you lack the self-control to ignore this forum.


"To be frank, the problem isn’t that we aren’t educating people. The problem is that we allow people with no real buy-in to vote in the first place." - Glen

I saw that. I would feign shock, but seeing Glen-Rhodes advocate for disenfranchisement of all but an elite few has become par for the course.
Cormac Skollvaldr
Liberty, Democracy, Solidarity - Thalassia

"Follow your arrow wherever it points." - Kacey Musgraves

User avatar
KhanterWinters
Attaché
 
Posts: 88
Founded: May 05, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby KhanterWinters » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:27 pm

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
Prime Minister: Islands of Unity vs The Serres Republic
Foreign Affairs: Glen-Rhodes vs Somyrion
Regional Affairs: Pencil Sharpeners
Military Affairs: Roavin




Wait :P

So there is elections for Prime Minister.... and Prime Minister can not assign the Ministers? Then what is the sense of having a PM? Why have a PM elections? With this then just have delegate and their ministers and that is it....
"It is wise to follow proper channels of communication, but communication is a two lanes road. You evade it, and you will have a problem." ~ Khanter W. Molchaniye.

My Statements are under my own responsibility and without any official representation of the regions in which I belong.

Framed by a Browser Console and photoshop
Founder of The Empire of Aztlan

Roavin April/4/19 At 1:22 am
I CAN NEVER FIND MY F*****G SOCKS
Cormac June/4/19 12:11
We're talking about food in #neutral_ground, NS families in #military_gameplay, I'm uh not sure what in #security_council but not SC resolutions...
This server is anarchy! Anarchy I say!

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