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Embassy of the South Pacific | Détente with Balder

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Lord Dominator
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6551
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:28 pm

Kuriko wrote:404 not found :/

Works fine for me, maybe try this one without fancy stuff?
http://tspforums.xyz/thread-6363.html

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Ever-Wandering Souls
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6545
Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:45 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:
Kuriko wrote:404 not found :/

Works fine for me, maybe try this one without fancy stuff?
http://tspforums.xyz/thread-6363.html


(it was broke and then I fixed it)
Proud Raider; General of The Black Hawks, Ret.
TG me anytime; I'm always happy to talk about anything!

The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative

How Do I Telegram API?

Omnis delenda est.

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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6069
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:09 pm

Reploid Productions wrote:
Unibot III wrote:Any other response will offer an opportunity for martyrdom, faux grandstanding, political disruption

So just another day in Gameplay?


Honestly a bit pettier than I remember it, but basically.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of TRR | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // Collected works // The Gameplay Alignment Test //
Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78

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✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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Ramaeus
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1024
Founded: Dec 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Ramaeus » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:38 pm

Unibot III wrote:Honestly a bit pettier than I remember it, but basically.

Which is saying something, lol.
Just some weeb.

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Kringalia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 795
Founded: Feb 03, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Kringalia » Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:12 pm

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:we've just been following their (silly) ground rules)

I don't think you were ever told by the Court to submit evidence privately?
Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Chief Justice and Security Councillor. Posts outside official venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.

Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System
Selected Achievements: Interviewed Max Barry | Tuesday Couper

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Ever-Wandering Souls
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6545
Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:44 pm

Kringalia wrote:
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:we've just been following their (silly) ground rules)

I don't think you were ever told by the Court to submit evidence privately?


Cabinet's Rep insisted repeatedly before...

Roavin wrote:The logs are currently classified but are available to the court upon request.


...and after submission...

Roavin wrote:
Mall wrote:How is a conversation between Ever Wandering Souls and Imki confidential and thus not subject to open disclosure to this court if the conversation is between Imki and the person who the Cabinet is refusing to disclose it to?


The issue isn't that Petitioner receives the conversation, but rather that it originated from private conversation and Imki herself has only cleared it to be shared with Cabinet, not publicly.


...that the conversation in question was confidential/necessary to be submitted privately to the court, despite me being party to it. We chose, as here -

Mal wrote:A full copy of the conversation between Ever Wandering Souls and Imkitopia has been provided to the Court in private. I see no reason why any of this conversation should be considered classified, but we are available to work with the Court to redact the logs as necessary pursuant to Article VIII, Section 2 of the Judicial Act.


...to submit it privately until such time as you returned a definitive ruling, rather than be accused of running afoul of your law, in the face of strong assertions by the Cabinet's rep that a conversation I was party to and able to pull logs from remains legally confidential. The Court's ruling hence that redaction to evidence submitted would be so total as to return a blacked out page did not really differentiate between, for example, this bit of evidence and any other material submitted concerning accusations that Cabinet's Rep refuses to even publicly specific in detail.

We'll continue to meet your rules and deadlines to the best of our ability, despite how silly it is to continue trying to defend me against allegations we're not being allowed to hear made. Looking forward to the next set of questions and rulings from The Court.
Last edited by Ever-Wandering Souls on Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Proud Raider; General of The Black Hawks, Ret.
TG me anytime; I'm always happy to talk about anything!

The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative

How Do I Telegram API?

Omnis delenda est.

User avatar
Kringalia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 795
Founded: Feb 03, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Kringalia » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 am

I have clarified the extent of the prior determination: http://tspforums.xyz/thread-6363-post-1 ... #pid175075

If you have doubts or questions, my door is always welcome to you, your counsel and the Cabinet’s counsel. I’m happy to answer them and help find some common ground, when that is possible.
Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Chief Justice and Security Councillor. Posts outside official venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.

Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System
Selected Achievements: Interviewed Max Barry | Tuesday Couper

User avatar
Consular
Minister
 
Posts: 3026
Founded: Apr 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Consular » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:01 am

Honestly I find it kind of silly that they're even humoring you.

User avatar
Ever-Wandering Souls
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6545
Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:30 am

Consular wrote:Honestly I find it kind of silly that they're even humoring you.


Yeah, I agree it’s silly that they’re humoring me and their democratic law, when they obviously don’t intend to even let me properly dispute anything truly of import. After all, how can I dispute any details of “you tried to overthrow the government, but we’re not telling you when you supposedly did so or with whom or anything else, just that we’re claiming you did and sending the court secret evidence.” It’s indeed farcical to act like that’s a fair trial, a fair chance to challenge a determination of hostility. It’s a joke to act like logs can’t be faked to even the server level given enough motivation, or simply taken out of context. It’s ridiculous to ignore the fact that the government of TSP has already accused me of blackmail and withdrawn that once it was proven false, made claims about TEP and TWP that are false, intentionally misconstrued conversations between me and imki despite *her* objections otherwise, and gotten basic facts about the incidents they have actually chosen to detail wrong, and then to just assume that despite all that whatever mystery evidence they’re presenting is hella legit.

But that’s not what you meant, is it?
Last edited by Ever-Wandering Souls on Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Proud Raider; General of The Black Hawks, Ret.
TG me anytime; I'm always happy to talk about anything!

The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative

How Do I Telegram API?

Omnis delenda est.

User avatar
Glen-Rhodes
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9027
Founded: Jun 25, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:11 am

Foreign subjects of proscriptions don’t have the right to a fair trial, so it indeed would be farcical to portray a judicial review that way. Your case isn’t a trial. In either case, TSP’s court is not adversarial.
Last edited by Glen-Rhodes on Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Lord Dominator
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6551
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:20 am

Glen-Rhodes wrote:Foreign subjects of proscriptions don’t have the right to a fair trial, so it indeed would be farcical to portray a judicial review that way. Your case isn’t a trial. In either case, TSP’s court is not adversarial.

Yes, we're extremely sorry for continually getting the name wrong, even though everyone knows what we mean.


You know, someone resigning legislator status with the words " I would like to revoke my own legislator status. Y’all make me sick" doesn't really inspire great confidence in what's going on over there. Just a thought

User avatar
Ever-Wandering Souls
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6545
Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:22 am

Glen-Rhodes wrote:Foreign subjects of proscriptions don’t have the right to a fair trial, so it indeed would be farcical to portray a judicial review that way. Your case isn’t a trial. In either case, TSP’s court is not adversarial.


It was colloquial, which is why I followed with “a fair chance to challenge the determination of hostility,” borrowing some of the actual wording in the proscription act.
Last edited by Ever-Wandering Souls on Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Proud Raider; General of The Black Hawks, Ret.
TG me anytime; I'm always happy to talk about anything!

The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative

How Do I Telegram API?

Omnis delenda est.

User avatar
Lord Dominator
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6551
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:24 pm


User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2574
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby United Massachusetts » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:28 pm

What on Earth happened in TSP?

User avatar
Lord Dominator
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6551
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:30 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:What on Earth happened in TSP?

Let's go with 'lot's of things'

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2574
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby United Massachusetts » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:31 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:What on Earth happened in TSP?

Let's go with 'lot's of things'

Thanks

User avatar
Ever-Wandering Souls
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6545
Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:39 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:I guess we're done then
http://tspforums.xyz/thread-6447.html


Call rabble rousing if you’d like, but personally I’d love to see Escade share some of the things that the grapevine tells me the administration slandered her with over the past few weeks, now that I guess there’s nothing left to lose.

Could be worded better so let me try again - there’s clearly another side to the story here, and the version I’ve heard a few takes on is generally “the clique wanted tim gone, escade refused to help with what she saw as bullying, and in being an obstacle she became a target as well. The person glen wants gone is gone, and those who stood in the way are gone. Again.” I’d love to hear it from the source though.
Last edited by Ever-Wandering Souls on Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Proud Raider; General of The Black Hawks, Ret.
TG me anytime; I'm always happy to talk about anything!

The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative

How Do I Telegram API?

Omnis delenda est.

User avatar
Lord Dominator
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6551
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:52 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:Let's go with 'lot's of things'

Thanks

More specifically, but this thread and linked stuff is a pretty good starter on what's been going on.

User avatar
Custadia
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 57
Founded: May 29, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Custadia » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:06 pm

Did... did I do this? I put Escade's name on that toxicity survey. I certainly didn't mean to do this.
Last edited by Custadia on Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AKA McChimp

User avatar
Land Without Shrimp
Envoy
 
Posts: 205
Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Land Without Shrimp » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:21 pm

Hmm. Suppose I should have paid more attention to what was going on in my own region.

...nah, I rather like staying apolitical. Still - all this drama/issues/RL-stress upsets me. Fun times. :/
Last edited by Land Without Shrimp on Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Ever-Wandering Souls
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6545
Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:23 pm

Custadia wrote:Did... did I do this? I put Escade's name on that toxicity survey. I certainly didn't mean to do this.


Everyone who overlooks the common elements that have survived several TSP toxicity purges, coups, etc, and who continue to believe those common elements when they blame others and run them out of the region yet again, has done this.

There’s a reason none of these events solve the “toxicity” issues, why those issues remain persistent despite the cyclical removal of “problem people.” The root issues are not being removed; they just lack any opposition for a while until a new one develops.
Last edited by Ever-Wandering Souls on Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Proud Raider; General of The Black Hawks, Ret.
TG me anytime; I'm always happy to talk about anything!

The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative

How Do I Telegram API?

Omnis delenda est.

User avatar
Ever-Wandering Souls
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6545
Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:55 pm

Tim on Discord wrote:Tim Today at 16:28
*throws the TWP chat a fun TSP related bone*

Tim Today at 16:28
Tim Today at 5:26 PM
Hey if anybody actually finds out what TSP's evidence is, please let me know

Because they won't let me see it, despite the fact that I'm the one who said it, and won't share it with others because it "violates (my) privacy"

Tim Today at 16:29
Meaning TSP supposedly has all this evidence, but won't show it to literally... anyone


Hmmmmmmmm....sounds familiar....wonder why....
Proud Raider; General of The Black Hawks, Ret.
TG me anytime; I'm always happy to talk about anything!

The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative

How Do I Telegram API?

Omnis delenda est.

User avatar
Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
Posts: 2476
Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:08 pm

It's absurd but unsurprising to see that Escade and Tim were banned, but those on the other side of the conflict were left in place.

It's unsurprising because the same administrators who decided to ban Escade and Tim were the other side of the conflict. This is a complete sham, and while I'm not surprised to see Tsunamy and Glen-Rhodes engaged in it, I'm genuinely surprised and disappointed to see Roavin engaged in it and some others I thought I respected supporting it. Banning one side of a conflict while the other people get to continue being awful to whomever they feel like, as Glen has consistently done for years, isn't going to cure TSP's toxicity. You've swept toxicity under the rug by banning one faction. You haven't fixed it.
Cormac Skollvaldr
Former Everything of Everywhere, Man
Way Too Cool to Be Commended or Condemned by the Likes of Y'all

"Follow your arrow wherever it points." - Kacey Musgraves

User avatar
McChimp
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 196
Founded: Jul 25, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby McChimp » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:17 pm

Custadia wrote:Did... did I do this? I put Escade's name on that toxicity survey. I certainly didn't mean to do this.


I feel like I ought to clarify that this was me who posted this. Forgot to switch accounts. Oops.
'YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.
"So we can believe the big ones?"
YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.
"They're not the same at all!"
YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET—Death waved a hand. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.' - Hogfather, Terry Pratchett.

User avatar
Ever-Wandering Souls
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6545
Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:18 pm

Cormactopia Prime wrote:You've swept toxicity under the rug by banning one faction. You haven't fixed it.


Such is TSP tradition.
Proud Raider; General of The Black Hawks, Ret.
TG me anytime; I'm always happy to talk about anything!

The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative

How Do I Telegram API?

Omnis delenda est.

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