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Embassy of the South Pacific | Détente with Balder

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Flanderlion
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Founded: Nov 25, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Flanderlion » Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:10 am

Slitherin Snakes wrote:
Aav Verinhall wrote:*clap* So TSP finally noticed that their application process for legislators is a piece of junk? I was the head director of HYDRA, and let me say, all of that stuff about HYDRA is true. TRI? Not so much. Thanks for the support though! *sarcastic laugh*


So why is TRI citizens that never participated or engaged in that being proscribed? If you want to proscribe TRI citizens at least write a factual statement of doing it. Perhaps better research should have been done to only proscribe former HYDRA members then?

Pretty sure the intention is to proscribe the whole Userite mess, not just one or two people. Only shame is that TWP/TEP removed their ones for some strange reason.
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Devi Vytherin
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Ex-Nation

Postby Devi Vytherin » Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:26 am

Flanderlion wrote:
Slitherin Snakes wrote:
So why is TRI citizens that never participated or engaged in that being proscribed? If you want to proscribe TRI citizens at least write a factual statement of doing it. Perhaps better research should have been done to only proscribe former HYDRA members then?

Pretty sure the intention is to proscribe the whole Userite mess, not just one or two people. Only shame is that TWP/TEP removed their ones for some strange reason.

Which is why single members of some UCRs have been proscribed, while others get the scattershot approach. Yep, definitely a userite thing :roll:
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Wabbitslayah
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Wabbitslayah » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:06 am

Devi Vytherin wrote:
Flanderlion wrote:Pretty sure the intention is to proscribe the whole Userite mess, not just one or two people. Only shame is that TWP/TEP removed their ones for some strange reason.

Which is why single members of some UCRs have been proscribed, while others get the scattershot approach. Yep, definitely a userite thing :roll:

I personally think scattershot approach is ridiculous. I mean it would make sense at least for a group that creates, enables, and participates in OOC disgusting behaviour and of course Nazis. But not so much because Tim decides he wants to shitpost or something, so now TSP, TRR, TGW, Spiritus, TEP, and whatever holes he hides in get hit too. It's silly.
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Devi Vytherin
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Ex-Nation

Postby Devi Vytherin » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:11 am

Wabbitslayah wrote:
Devi Vytherin wrote:Which is why single members of some UCRs have been proscribed, while others get the scattershot approach. Yep, definitely a userite thing :roll:

I personally think scattershot approach is ridiculous. I mean it would make sense at least for a group that creates, enables, and participates in OOC disgusting behaviour and of course Nazis. But not so much because Tim decides he wants to shitpost or something, so now TSP, TRR, TGW, Spiritus, TEP, and whatever holes he hides in get hit too. It's silly.

Woah, you're almost making it sound as though these proscriptions were poorly thought through and even more poorly implemented. Better be careful or you might be tarred with the subversive userite brush too :blush:
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Wabbitslayah
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Wabbitslayah » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:21 am

Devi Vytherin wrote:
Wabbitslayah wrote:I personally think scattershot approach is ridiculous. I mean it would make sense at least for a group that creates, enables, and participates in OOC disgusting behaviour and of course Nazis. But not so much because Tim decides he wants to shitpost or something, so now TSP, TRR, TGW, Spiritus, TEP, and whatever holes he hides in get hit too. It's silly.

Woah, you're almost making it sound as though these proscriptions were poorly thought through and even more poorly implemented. Better be careful or you might be tarred with the subversive userite brush too :blush:

Well I guess that now makes me a Subversive Userite to Balder and TSP. Crazy.

Just to clarify, I think all at large proscriptions except the exceptions I mentioned are lame asf. If people need to be PNG's, png exactly that, people.

hypothetically:
If TSP proscribes Balder, I don't see why Bran Triune and JAL deserve that, they're decent guys. Despite the reason because they don't like Onder, NES, and Solorni.
If Balder proscribes TSP; what did little ole HEM, Imki, and Dyl do to it? When clearly they just don't like Glen, Roavin, and Tim.
Last edited by Wabbitslayah on Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Onderkelkia
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Corporate Police State

Postby Onderkelkia » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:07 am

Wabbitslayah wrote:Well I guess that now makes me a Subversive Userite to Balder and TSP. Crazy.

No, Balder does not consider you to be a "Subversive Userite". Balder does not regard NationStates politics as a battle between feederites and userites.

Wabbitslayah wrote:If Balder proscribes TSP; what did little ole HEM, Imki, and Dyl do to it? When clearly they just don't like Glen, Roavin, and Tim.

Firstly, Balder's Hostile Foreign Affiliations Act contains provisions for allowing exemptions to be granted for individual members of proscribed regions where merited. For example, Imki was granted a waiver in Balder after a previous citizenship application. Even where it is recognised that regions have hostile intentions towards Balder so they represent a generic risk, we have maximum discretion to grant a waiver where a specific player does not pose a threat.

Secondly, NationStates politics for Balder is first and foremost about regions, not individuals. For us, this game is not about personalities. It is not about which players you like or dislike. Rather, the game is rooted in a series of political and ideological conflicts. From their pro-defender vantage point, "Glen, Roavin, and Tim" may well be the individual members of TSP who are most explicitly hostile to Balder in their public statements on a regular basis, but our foreign affairs and security assessments of The South Pacific are based on TSP's policy and security attributes as a region. Naturally, the behaviour of those you name has contributed to that, but others have consistently gone along with their anti-Balder agenda or else they would have failed in their objectives.
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Wabbitslayah
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Founded: Apr 19, 2009
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Wabbitslayah » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:55 pm

Onderkelkia wrote:
Wabbitslayah wrote:Well I guess that now makes me a Subversive Userite to Balder and TSP. Crazy.

No, Balder does not consider you to be a "Subversive Userite". Balder does not regard NationStates politics as a battle between feederites and userites.

Wabbitslayah wrote:If Balder proscribes TSP; what did little ole HEM, Imki, and Dyl do to it? When clearly they just don't like Glen, Roavin, and Tim.

Firstly, Balder's Hostile Foreign Affiliations Act contains provisions for allowing exemptions to be granted for individual members of proscribed regions where merited. For example, Imki was granted a waiver in Balder after a previous citizenship application. Even where it is recognised that regions have hostile intentions towards Balder so they represent a generic risk, we have maximum discretion to grant a waiver where a specific player does not pose a threat.

Secondly, NationStates politics for Balder is first and foremost about regions, not individuals. For us, this game is not about personalities. It is not about which players you like or dislike. Rather, the game is rooted in a series of political and ideological conflicts. From their pro-defender vantage point, "Glen, Roavin, and Tim" may well be the individual members of TSP who are most explicitly hostile to Balder in their public statements on a regular basis, but our foreign affairs and security assessments of The South Pacific are based on TSP's policy and security attributes as a region. Naturally, the behaviour of those you name has contributed to that, but others have consistently gone along with their anti-Balder agenda or else they would have failed in their objectives.


Don't worry Onder, I'm not hating on Balder or anything, it's one of my favourite regions. I just don't really like blanket proscriptions, even if I understand where you're coming from here.
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Escade
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Ex-Nation

Postby Escade » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:17 pm

Devi Vytherin wrote:
Wabbitslayah wrote:I personally think scattershot approach is ridiculous. I mean it would make sense at least for a group that creates, enables, and participates in OOC disgusting behaviour and of course Nazis. But not so much because Tim decides he wants to shitpost or something, so now TSP, TRR, TGW, Spiritus, TEP, and whatever holes he hides in get hit too. It's silly.

Woah, you're almost making it sound as though these proscriptions were poorly thought through and even more poorly implemented. Better be careful or you might be tarred with the subversive userite brush too :blush:


I can name at least three regions where I'm prescribed or otherwise seen as a "danger" and I'm not even a full userite (yet).

Proscriptions themselves are a GP tool, they used to be called PNGs or persona non grata which seemed more accurate (and less confusing with medication) and don't really seem to need any reasons at all. See all three regions proscribing my devious mermaid mischief. However, I do agree that fact-checking and presentation matter.

"You are proscribed because we feel like it, ha" seems to be the way other regions do it, albeit with a little sticker that states "dangerous subversive element who we don't like for x, y, z."

That of course leads to a whole debate on what is subversive....usually in GP it means "we don't agree with you and don't want you to vote, import votes, or speak in our region."

Onderkelkia, I would like to know why I am proscribed in Balder. Specifically, please let me know my heinous acts of evil and wanton violence. I'd like a reminder so I may further outdo myself. Thanks.

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Vulturret
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Founded: Aug 23, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Vulturret » Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:07 pm

Escade wrote:
Devi Vytherin wrote:Woah, you're almost making it sound as though these proscriptions were poorly thought through and even more poorly implemented. Better be careful or you might be tarred with the subversive userite brush too :blush:


I can name at least three regions where I'm prescribed or otherwise seen as a "danger" and I'm not even a full userite (yet).

Proscriptions themselves are a GP tool, they used to be called PNGs or persona non grata which seemed more accurate (and less confusing with medication) and don't really seem to need any reasons at all. See all three regions proscribing my devious mermaid mischief. However, I do agree that fact-checking and presentation matter.

"You are proscribed because we feel like it, ha" seems to be the way other regions do it, albeit with a little sticker that states "dangerous subversive element who we don't like for x, y, z."

That of course leads to a whole debate on what is subversive....usually in GP it means "we don't agree with you and don't want you to vote, import votes, or speak in our region."

Onderkelkia, I would like to know why I am proscribed in Balder. Specifically, please let me know my heinous acts of evil and wanton violence. I'd like a reminder so I may further outdo myself. Thanks.

The reason you confuse it with medication is because you spelled it (at least in your first sentence) as "prescribe" instead of "proscribe." :P
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Lord Dominator
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Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:37 pm

So, anyone else been watching TSP and been munching on their popcorn?
I mean, we got;
1) Half the cabinet has resigned
2) Several people, including the PM, are citing a need for a LoA due to NS stuff (among other things, hope all goes well for them)
3) Got a proposal here from Escade that looks to be openly gunning for Glen

Of course, TSP is of course completely non-toxic, and not all having government infighting. Definitely ;)

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Aumeltopia
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Aumeltopia » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:06 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:So, anyone else been watching TSP and been munching on their popcorn?
I mean, we got;
1) Half the cabinet has resigned
2) Several people, including the PM, are citing a need for a LoA due to NS stuff (among other things, hope all goes well for them)

I'm not munching on my popcorn. I'm in TSP and munching on my fingernails. That is to say, plenty worried.

And Roavin. And any other future highly qualified member of the community she doesn't like.
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Ever-Wandering Souls
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Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:41 pm

What is this, the Australian government?
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Cormactopia Prime
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:26 am

I don't understand what's going on in the South Pacific. Or rather, I don't understand why it's being allowed to go on.

You've had several people causing disruption over a very protracted period of time, on a level that has caused people OOC emotional distress. You have people taking leaves of absence that are months in duration, half the Cabinet has resigned, and the Assembly is one toxic dumpster fire after another. The latest example is Escade trying to amend administrative law to target her enemies, but there are others, on both sides of the conflict. Meanwhile, your Charter clearly says that people can only maintain legislator status with "active membership and good behaviour." Does this strike you folks as good behavior? Maybe you should think about revoking legislator status. Maybe you should think about adding crimes to your criminal code that cover prolonged, toxic, disruptive behavior like this. And maybe, just maybe, given that this is causing people OOC emotional distress, sending people fleeing your region, causing people to take months-long leaves of absence, etc., it's time to think about handing out OOC penalties for behavior that is having OOC consequences. The people involved should know by now to stop. If they won't, someone should stop them.

There really is no excuse for this unless you like this kind of toxic mudslinging. I know some of you don't, so take responsibility and fix it. Jesus.
Last edited by Cormactopia Prime on Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unibot III
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:57 pm

And what would be the long term consequences and application of a vague "disruption" criminal charge? And who is left to enforce it? The whole populist shtick that Escade and others are waging primarily aims to foment distrust of establishment figures - administrators, government officials, the courts, and their political allies - and accuse the latter of abuse of power.

Escade has already run afoul of a lot of existing protocol, but it's up to the one person that she can't discredit to enforce these OOC & IC protocols: Tsu. If Tsu drops the hammer, order will mostly be restored. If Tsu doesn't, this shitshow is going to continue until a coup d'etat is launched.

Any other response will offer an opportunity for martyrdom, faux grandstanding, political disruption, and chip away at the constitutional fabric of TSP's liberal democracy.
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Jar Wattinree
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Jar Wattinree » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:02 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:So, anyone else been watching TSP and been munching on their popcorn?
I mean, we got;
1) Half the cabinet has resigned
2) Several people, including the PM, are citing a need for a LoA due to NS stuff (among other things, hope all goes well for them)
3) Got a proposal here from Escade that looks to be openly gunning for Glen

Of course, TSP is of course completely non-toxic, and not all having government infighting. Definitely ;)

This post sponsored by the secret cabal of people who despise and wish to overthrow TSP. All right reserved

So that's what's going on? Their Discord hasn't let on about it.
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Postby Reploid Productions » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:35 pm

Unibot III wrote:Any other response will offer an opportunity for martyrdom, faux grandstanding, political disruption

So just another day in Gameplay?
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Lord Dominator
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Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:23 pm

Jar Wattinree wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:So, anyone else been watching TSP and been munching on their popcorn?
I mean, we got;
1) Half the cabinet has resigned
2) Several people, including the PM, are citing a need for a LoA due to NS stuff (among other things, hope all goes well for them)
3) Got a proposal here from Escade that looks to be openly gunning for Glen

Of course, TSP is of course completely non-toxic, and not all having government infighting. Definitely ;)

This post sponsored by the secret cabal of people who despise and wish to overthrow TSP. All right reserved

So that's what's going on? Their Discord hasn't let on about it.

The short answer would be 'everything'
The long answer is well, long, but seems to include some kind of Tim & Escade v Glen and Roavin as an internal battle of something.
If I'm wrong, someone else from TSP will have to post, and that'd break the whole secrecy thing, now wouldn't it :twisted:
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Unibot III wrote:Any other response will offer an opportunity for martyrdom, faux grandstanding, political disruption

So just another day in Gameplay?

This day comes with a 100% chance of shitspewing and a 50% of couping, according to my very real and very accurate forecasts

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Jar Wattinree
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Jar Wattinree » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:24 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:This day comes with a 100% chance of shitspewing and a 50% of couping, according to my very real and very accurate forecasts

Did you get that from Forest?
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Lord Dominator
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Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:26 pm

Jar Wattinree wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:This day comes with a 100% chance of shitspewing and a 50% of couping, according to my very real and very accurate forecasts

Did you get that from Forest?

Definitely

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Ever-Wandering Souls
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:53 pm

Jar Wattinree wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:So, anyone else been watching TSP and been munching on their popcorn?
I mean, we got;
1) Half the cabinet has resigned
2) Several people, including the PM, are citing a need for a LoA due to NS stuff (among other things, hope all goes well for them)
3) Got a proposal here from Escade that looks to be openly gunning for Glen

Of course, TSP is of course completely non-toxic, and not all having government infighting. Definitely ;)

This post sponsored by the secret cabal of people who despise and wish to overthrow TSP. All right reserved

So that's what's going on? Their Discord hasn't let on about it.


With a side of their cabinet and court so far, in me challenging their proscription of me, basically taking the stance of "The Cabinet does not have to say any more about exactly what you've allegedly done, nor are you allowed to see and dispute any evidence of the claims you don't get to hear. It's all secret."
Last edited by Ever-Wandering Souls on Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

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Jar Wattinree
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Jar Wattinree » Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:03 pm

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:With a side of their cabinet and court so far, in me challenging their proscription of me, basically taking the stance of "The Cabinet does not have to say any more about exactly what you've allegedly done, nor are you allowed to see and dispute any evidence of the claims you don't get to hear. It's all secret."

Image Image
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Lord Dominator
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:14 pm

Jar Wattinree wrote:
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:With a side of their cabinet and court so far, in me challenging their proscription of me, basically taking the stance of "The Cabinet does not have to say any more about exactly what you've allegedly done, nor are you allowed to see and dispute any evidence of the claims you don't get to hear. It's all secret."

Image Image

Feel free to go read Souls' appeal on the TSP forum, but the basic gist is a citation of regional security means that any logs have to be redacted in their entirety, negating any possibility of anyone outside the Cabinet, Court, or Glen (as Intelligence Commissioner) from seeing them

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Jar Wattinree
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Jar Wattinree » Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:17 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:
Jar Wattinree wrote:
Image Image

Feel free to go read Souls' appeal on the TSP forum, but the basic gist is a citation of regional security means that any logs have to be redacted in their entirety, negating any possibility of anyone outside the Cabinet, Court, or Glen (as Intelligence Commissioner) from seeing them

Aha, I getcha.
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Ever-Wandering Souls
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:23 pm

IMHO it's worth a read, to judge for yourself. Don't take my word!

(And before anyone says we've been hypocritial by delivering evidence privately to the court, we're more than happy to share publicly anything we've delivered, we've just been following their (silly) ground rules)
Last edited by Ever-Wandering Souls on Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The color or what?..

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Kuriko
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Posts: 1317
Founded: Oct 31, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kuriko » Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:25 pm

404 not found :/
WA Secretary-General
TITO Tactical Officer of the 10000 Islands
Registrar-General and Chief of Staff of the 10000 Islands
LOVEWHOYOUARE~

Former TITO Tactical Officer
Former Commander of TGW, UDSAF, and FORGE
Proud founder of The Hole To Hide In
Person behind the Regional Officer resignation button
Person behind the Offsite Chat tag and the Jump Point tag
WA Character limit increase to 5,000 characters

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