Embassy of the South Pacific

[Escade]

I love how half the indy\imperialist sphere is up in here attacking me like thanks for proving my point.

Oh my, it's like you tried the game you played in Lazarus in TSP and it didn't work and you're still salty over it.

Hey lady, you're the one who keeps bringing it up over and over again like it's proof of anything other than your lie worked in TSP and that makes you think you can sell it here too.

I'm sorry I defended myself against your false accusation? Much salt? Very crusty? Wow?

As for the rest Wolf, you also have claimed not to coup Lazarus. It's pretty clear that you won that one and lost the attempt in TSP.

You have no intention to reply to my questions either do you? How long was I citizen of Euro prior to my taking a break from NS? What did I do in the region that you found to be signs of subversion then or recently? Good luck with a totalitarian regime that puts people in the gulag and skips the court\trial\etc. Unless of course, you have proof of my subversion...then please do start a court trial against me.

Unless of course, I'm right about Euro being simply a tool of Balder's.

I have been a citizen of Europeia since 2009. Nothing you have done there is worthy of me remembering. I don't need evidence that you would subvert our region. It's clear from the context of your application and comments here that you couldn't possibly have any other intention.

OMG it's Sopo. I didn't realize it with the whole Ambrella thing. You are that guy who supported the Hileville coup in TSP, aren't you? Wow, that explains a lot. Wait, wait, wait were you also involved in the whole Toaster thing? You know subversion inside out then don't you.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Funny there are two GCRs who have had something to recently say about you and your type of gameplay, Souls. I agree with them completely.

As coughed at above, the problem there is rather that they're saying "subversion!!!" without actually saying what, how, or why. "Something" may be being said, but that "something" remains entirely impalpable. Are you joining that party? Despite my vocal dislike for TSP leadership, I've not actually taken any action to enter your region openly or disguised and alter it. What exactly is "my type of gameplay?"

---

I love how half the indy\imperialist sphere is up in here attacking me like thanks for proving my point.

In what world do the mere existence of debate and counterpoints actively prove a view is correct? Unless that view is literally just "there exist counterpoints."

[Killer Kitty]

As for the rest Wolf, you also have claimed not to coup Lazarus. It's pretty clear that you won that one and lost the attempt in TSP.

Ah, I see you've chosen to double down on your baseless assertion with another baseless assertion. An unorthodox move. Let's see how that plays out.

[Escade]

You know what's really disappointing recently, Europeia becoming another tool of userite raider menace Balder and banning players from becoming citizens because your puppet masters just don't like them. The real disappointment here is how you ignore the real tragedy of Euro having become just a colony of invaderism\raiderism. It's really interesting to see a region that bans players because of their associations with TSP or defenders to lament anything at all.

I do love your GIF game <3

Also I can't quote it but I think it was Vac, I was actually hurt by the denial. I've been a citizen of Euro before and I always liked the region because of the games and fun activities. Some of the things I learned how to do were from players in Euro running events\festivals\etc.

Like any region outside of TSP, I join usually to play games and to plan co-game events and therefore it was a shock to be denied for something I usually haven't actually paid attention to (the politics).

Anyway, it was a lost opportunity to have some fun things together as TSP and Euro had in the past before idk what happened. I guess Euro changed a bit before and after my break from NS and that was disappointing as well.

[Consular]

I love how half the indy\imperialist sphere is up in here attacking me like thanks for proving my point.

Escade, without commenting on whether I agree with what you're saying or not, this discussion you're pushing here, I don't think it's in TSP's best interest, to be honest.

tldr: stop

[King HEM]

(Image)

I do love your GIF game <3

Also I can't quote it but I think it was Vac, I was actually hurt by the denial. I've been a citizen of Euro before and I always liked the region because of the games and fun activities. Some of the things I learned how to do were from players in Euro running events\festivals\etc.

Like any region outside of TSP, I join usually to play games and to plan co-game events and therefore it was a shock to be denied for something I usually haven't actually paid attention to (the politics).

Anyway, it was a lost opportunity to have some fun things together as TSP and Euro had in the past before idk what happened. I guess Euro changed a bit before and after my break from NS and that was disappointing as well.

I came into this thread with a legitimate criticism of The South Pacific as a prominent former citizen, and since have been barraged with un-related attacks against my region because you were hurt that you couldn't join. I empathize with that Escade, I really do. I'm sorry that being rejected for citizenship brought you to a place of wanting to trash our region and claim that we are subservient to Balder. But I think both of us can agree now that probably overshot the rim a bit.

Everyone here has experienced what it feels like to not be wanted somewhere (it sucks!), but I think it's up to all of us to channel those negative feelings into other pursuits. Your anger toward Europeia might've spurred you to say things you didn't mean tonight, and I can definitely accept your apology. Like I said before, maybe moving forward that decision can be changed - not overnight, not in a day, but with time.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

I guess Euro changed a bit before and after my break from NS and that was disappointing as well.

[Roavin]

Woah there. What a thread to wake up to

First, any one individual posting doesn't represent TSP. Official stuff will be marked explicitly as such, so anything else can and should be seen as that individual's thoughts. We didn't see CSP's post a few months back as anything else either, because that would be absurd.

Second, addressing HEM briefly:

Speaking for myself (and only myself) It's very disappointing to see The South Pacific adopt Francoist rhetoric.

When I joined TSP in 2010, the region was virtually dead. Over the next three years, a variety of players would come together to respond to some brutal coups and revitalize the region. Some of those players were natives, some played in other regions too. Some of those players were invaders, some of those players were defenders. I am happy to say that throughout that time I had the tremendous honor of playing a very small part in the active TSP we see today.

A lot has changed in the region since then, probably some good and bad - I won't pretend to be an expert these days. That's okay. But it is disheartening that we may soon witness a South Pacific that sees UCR regions as their enemy - and likewise, sees players who also dare to frequent said UCR regions as ineligible for contribution. It is a dishonor to the region's legacy, to say the very least.

The frequent use of a specific subset of francoist rhetoric is a phase — as you said yourself later in this thread, "Regionalism with a Francoist flare is back in vogue". It's something that's not restricted to TSP but also in use elsewhere, so we're hardly the only ones here. It's not even about cosmopolitanism, as we have several people with cross-membership in various regions ranging from 10000 Islands to The Pacific. It's just about entryism, and for a feeder such as ourselves, the word "userite" is just a much nicer word to craft rhetoric with than "entryist" (even if its definition is slightly more restricted).

Entryism is something any region can be affected by.

Now, as Tim already stated, UCRs are not our enemy. We have treaties with Spiritus, Conch Kingdom and the Union of Demoncratic States, all three of which are wonderful. We had a treaty with Euro for a long time, which didn't end out of animus but simply because we grew apart (the way WL did it wasn't the nicest and probably motivated by the same kind of sentiment CSP expressed, but I don't hold that against Euro and I don't think anybody else does either). We have good relations even without formal commitment to a number of other places as well.

TL;DR: We don't hate UCRs, we don't mind cosmos, and I'm sure any South Pacifican UCR-cosmo can confirm that we don't treat them any differently.

Become a region that spouts Francoist nonsense instead of coherent policy.

See above. Tim or myself are glad to answer any questions on policy (I assure you it's coherent).

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

It's just about entryism, and for a feeder such as ourselves, the word "userite" is just a much nicer word to craft rhetoric with than "entryist" (even if its definition is slightly more restricted).

Is it? Because it totally sets to the side the vast body of history that is intra-GCR "entryism" and ignores "genuine" personal motivations as well. As has been noted many times, and as I've yet to see refused any time recently, historically some of the bigger dangers to GCR's have been other GCR's as well as their own genuine members. Seems to me like it's an unnecessarily divisive and derogatory term that is so unfocused it could be applied by some of it's base factors to probably more than half the people using it offensively these days (as well as many of the genuine members of your region), and that there are much better terms that could be used without as heavy of a propaganda push and without pushing the separation of an undesirable caste with "some good people" mixed in.

[Vaculatestar64]

(Image)

I do love your GIF game <3

Also I can't quote it but I think it was Vac, I was actually hurt by the denial. I've been a citizen of Euro before and I always liked the region because of the games and fun activities. Some of the things I learned how to do were from players in Euro running events\festivals\etc.

Like any region outside of TSP, I join usually to play games and to plan co-game events and therefore it was a shock to be denied for something I usually haven't actually paid attention to (the politics).

Anyway, it was a lost opportunity to have some fun things together as TSP and Euro had in the past before idk what happened. I guess Euro changed a bit before and after my break from NS and that was disappointing as well.

It took me two tries to get into the region personally, and throughout my experiences the administration, both forum and executive do everything in their power to protect the region and don't approve/deny based on personal vitriol towards any individual, when they make a decision it's purely business. If what has been commented above is true, and you gave off every indication of being there for no other reason than to "subvert" the governance of Europeia, then I am sure Lethen took that into consideration when considering your application. He did not intend to hurt you personally, it's not his style.

Regardless of whether or not it hurt you, it does not give you leave to make up outlandish lies about the Europeian administration team banning you when in fact you maintain full diplomatic privileges and can come and go from the forum and discord server under that banner as you please. If you're going to lie, at least don't lie about something that a simple screenshot of your forum profile account could disprove.

Furthermore, it seems as though your definition of Independent Foreign Policy relies upon reaching a certain quota of raider, defender etc... connections, alliances, and military operations as the crux of how it labels itself. When in fact from what I can gather, it's more doing what is politically expedient to assist the region in this grand game we call NationStates. And from my point of view, it is not politically expedient to align a region with people who like to lob insults on a regular basis and drag us into conversations that do not concern us in the first place.

Disclaimer: I am speaking as a private citizen of the Republic of Europeia. I am NOT serving in any official capacity for any regional government or organization.

Edit: Typo

[Roavin]

Because it totally sets to the side the vast body of history that is intra-GCR "entryism" and ignores "genuine" personal motivations as well. As has been noted many times, and as I've yet to see refused any time recently, historically some of the bigger dangers to GCR's have been other GCR's as well as their own genuine members.

Correct.

Seems to me like it's an unnecessarily divisive and derogatory term that is so unfocused it could be applied by some of it's base factors to probably more than half the people using it offensively these days (as well as many of the genuine members of your region), and that there are much better terms that could be used without as heavy of a propaganda push and without pushing the separation of an undesirable caste with "some good people" mixed in.

It's pretty focused, actually. Have a definition: "entryists from UCRs in GCRs". If Tim (and that's surely who you were referring to ) was trying to change TSP from within to help TGW and/or Spiritus and/or the defender cause, he'd be an entryist from a UCR in a GCR, ergo a userite. I don't have a reason to believe he's doing that (and I work with him through the Cabinet and FA team, so I'd be the foremost person to realize!), so he's not.

If you (or anyone else) have another suggestion for a term, I'd love to hear it. But just do a quick test - close your eyes, and say "userite". Then say "entryist". Which ones sounds better and more powerful should be, I hope, pretty obvious.

[Solorni]

First, any one individual posting doesn't represent TSP. Official stuff will be marked explicitly as such, so anything else can and should be seen as that individual's thoughts. We didn't see CSP's post a few months back as anything else either, because that would be absurd.

I do not think it is relevant to compare the posting of a retired citizen with that of a cabinet minister. You can (try to?) argue that what cabinet minister's in TSP say in TSP's official embassy doesn't represent TSP, but your comparison with CSP that you bring up here doesn't make sense.

[Escade]

I came into this thread with a legitimate criticism of The South Pacific as a prominent former citizen, and since have been barraged with un-related attacks against my region because you were hurt that you couldn't join. I empathize with that Escade, I really do. I'm sorry that being rejected for citizenship brought you to a place of wanting to trash our region and claim that we are subservient to Balder. But I think both of us can agree now that probably overshot the rim a bit.

Everyone here has experienced what it feels like to not be wanted somewhere (it sucks!), but I think it's up to all of us to channel those negative feelings into other pursuits. Your anger toward Europeia might've spurred you to say things you didn't mean tonight, and I can definitely accept your apology. Like I said before, maybe moving forward that decision can be changed - not overnight, not in a day, but with time.

I was a member and citizen of Euro, and also have some legitimate criticisms of the region. In fact, unless there's an official Regional Affairs logo I speak as an individual on all NSGP venues. You're not the only one capable of criticism and you're criticism regarding a post that has a ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) face attached to it was ridiculous. You might argue that Tim's sense of humor wasn't as good as it usually is, etc, but you forced it quite a bit there to take pot shots.

I won't be accepting an apology from you or "your" region for attempting to silence me by attacking me as a subversive without any proof, without any evidence, and simply because of the herd mentality you argue you do not espouse. If it has become the norm that Euro attempts to slime individuals as subversive for criticism that doesn't align with your own then I guess the McCarthyism that has infected much of your sphere is indeed viral. Or perhaps you should build a culture of criticism at home where you can actually accept or even look at a response to you without piling on.

It's not a simple process of being denied citizenship which was merely an example of the herd mentality; it's because you haven't been able to explain why Euro seems lock and step in following whatever it is Balder does. Balder and TSP mutually break off ties because Balder thinks it can run our foreign affairs and that creates hostility, and a bit later Euro breaks off ties under many guises but let's face it, you follow what Balder does. Balder prescribes TSP even though we have no interest in Balder, Euro in the one chance it gets denies citizenship to the same players that Balder has proscribed. There are no lies here, action from Balder follows action from Euro in a consistent way.

The President of Euro, Sopo, has supported the attempted coup of TSP just as Balder did in 2016. If you're such an independent region that does what it wants....why do most of your actions follow that of Balder? I guess it's convenient. Anyway, you aren't the only citizen or former citizen of a region capable of criticism of said former region. Perhaps, Euro should just come out and accept that they do what Balder does or wants because that is the relationship of imperialism. Or you can keep denying it as the evidence piles up.

Also lol I don't think you know what a barrage is since your're side has always been Goliath and this thread is proof of point of what a barrage or pile on actually is.

Solorni, the irony is strong there. Thanks for posting though in defense of a region that still does what you want

[Drexlore]

The President of Euro, Sopo,

Just real quick, Sopo isn't the President, HEM is.

[Glen-Rhodes]

The President of Euro, Sopo,

Just real quick, Sopo isn't the President, HEM is.

Sopo was President. He also didn’t just support the coup. He was a leader of it, something Europeia never apologized for, yet alone recognized, even while they were allies. Europeia was a bad ally and never upheld their part of our treaty. Every Europeian President failed miserably at relations with TSP, despite several TSP administrations holding Europeia as an exemplary ally that was so important, it was worth overlooking their support for a coup against TSP. Even when I was re-elected as MoFA, I didn’t push for repeal of the treaty, despite the numerous valid reasons to withdrawal from alliance where Europeia acted more as an enemy than friend.

So maybe instead of taking pot-shots at Escade, actually bother to address the critique?

Lastly, I’ll say this at NSGP in general. There has been a consistent undercurrent of sexism in how Escade has been treated for the past year and more. Many of Gamplayers— mostly males, of course— treat her with condescension, as if she’s the naive crazy girl trying to play the big leagues. Frankly, Escade doesn’t say or do anything different than half of Gameplayers, but is treated worse than any male player (like myself!) that gets ganged up on whenever they post. It’s getting very annoying. Engage in some self-reflection.

[Consular]

First, any one individual posting doesn't represent TSP. Official stuff will be marked explicitly as such, so anything else can and should be seen as that individual's thoughts. We didn't see CSP's post a few months back as anything else either, because that would be absurd.

I do not think it is relevant to compare the posting of a retired citizen with that of a cabinet minister. You can (try to?) argue that what cabinet minister's in TSP say in TSP's official embassy doesn't represent TSP, but your comparison with CSP that you bring up here doesn't make sense.

Ok I'm sorry but hasn't Onder and co repeatedly argued in the past that your often belligerent commentary doesn't represent Balder, even though you're the Queen?

[Drexlore]

Just real quick, Sopo isn't the President, HEM is.

So maybe instead of taking pot-shots at Escade, actually bother to address the critique?

I'm not taking pot-shots at her. I was simply addressing an error that I saw in her post. I thought she was meaning that Sopo was currently president, and not referring to his past times as President. Her wording made it confusing to me. If she meant it that way, then I apologize if it seems like I was being in any way condescending to her.

[Deladara]

Lastly, I’ll say this at NSGP in general. There has been a consistent undercurrent of sexism in how Escade has been treated for the past year and more. Many of Gamplayers— mostly males, of course— treat her with condescension, as if she’s the naive crazy girl trying to play the big leagues. Frankly, Escade doesn’t say or do anything different than half of Gameplayers, but is treated worse than any male player (like myself!) that gets ganged up on whenever they post. It’s getting very annoying. Engage in some self-reflection.

As far as my experience goes, the way people have treated Escade is no different than how people have reacted to a naive and crazy boy shouting baseless accusations at an entire region. I also lament the fact that you try to bring in sexism into the conversation for the sole purpose of scoring political points against your rivals. Europeia above all else has constantly stood as a region of equality and we have a commendation to prove it.

[Isaris]

If it has become the norm that Euro attempts to slime individuals as subversive for criticism that doesn't align with your own then I guess the McCarthyism that has infected much of your sphere is indeed viral. Or perhaps you should build a culture of criticism at home where you can actually accept or even look at a response to you without piling on.

There's a big difference between legitimate criticism and outlandish accusations of being a puppet state to another region.

If you're such an independent region that does what it wants....why do most of your actions follow that of Balder?

God forbid a region should stand in solidarity with an ally. I don't know the full history between Europeia and TSP myself, so I can't speak as to why that relationship didn't work out, but I don't think it's fair to criticize Europeia for being a bad ally to TSP, while simultaneously accusing it of being a puppet because it acted in good faith to a different partner.

P.S. - I sincerely appreciated your comment on my GIF.

[Solorni]

I like how the only person who has put forth the idea that that Escade is a "naive crazy girl trying to play the big leagues" is Glen Rhodes. It makes me wonder if this is what he tells Escade when everyone disagrees with her...

[North Prarie]

Mockery is a good way to evade the underlying point, which is that all of these regions (except The New Inquisition, lol) have formed an insurmountable bloc that is detrimental to gameplay. The gameplay world is dominated by this unbreakable independent-imperialist-raider axis, which is basically reducing gameplay to either going along with this bloc and trying to derive amusement from winning everything with no competition, or engaging in a futile effort to compete against this bloc because you would rather do that than win by default. It's sucked the air out of gameplay. Completely.

This bloc is now so confident that it doesn't even bother to engage in meaningful debate, discussion, etc. We're in a post-gameplay era of gameplay.

Somy, so hilarious when you chime in because it's like you only know the events of the past six months or a year and don't know ... oh yeah what happened before or what went on behind the scenes, etc. "As far as I can tell" is such a limited range of time for you.

Also to correct you since facts are difficult for you,

WOAH, WOAH, WOAH
are you insulting Somy?
Somy is awesome.
I sense you are insulting Somy.
Somy was in government of big GP regions, including Lazarus.
NOBODY IS MEAN TO MY SOMY
*gives Somy a hug*

Also, Escade: Please don't talk like you're talking down to the current MoMA and overall TSP awesomehero.
Finally: I know this was a but late but, erm: I applied for citizenship in Europeia, putting down in the application tgat I was from TsP and worked for the SPSF, and was not denied.

[Solorni]

Somy is def awesome. He was the one who helped me put blobs on the Balder forums. So I am eternally grateful to him

[North Prarie]

Somy is def awesome. He was the one who helped me put blobs on the Balder forums. So I am eternally grateful to him

He's one of my TSP BFFs

[Glen-Rhodes]

Lastly, I’ll say this at NSGP in general. There has been a consistent undercurrent of sexism in how Escade has been treated for the past year and more. Many of Gamplayers— mostly males, of course— treat her with condescension, as if she’s the naive crazy girl trying to play the big leagues. Frankly, Escade doesn’t say or do anything different than half of Gameplayers, but is treated worse than any male player (like myself!) that gets ganged up on whenever they post. It’s getting very annoying. Engage in some self-reflection.

As far as my experience goes, the way people have treated Escade is no different than how people have reacted to a naive and crazy boy shouting baseless accusations at an entire region. I also lament the fact that you try to bring in sexism into the conversation for the sole purpose of scoring political points against your rivals. Europeia above all else has constantly stood as a region of equality and we have a commendation to prove it.

Having been on the receiving end of NSGP hate brigades for nearly five years now, I know how Gameplayers usually go about ragging on people. The way Escade has been ridiculed in NSGP is different from what I’ve seen before. Calling her “lady”, saying her posts are too girly (with the glitter and gifs), and basically treating her as a dunce who doesn’t know the first thing about Gameplay. Just look at the way me and Unibot are responded to, then look at half the responses to Escade’s posts. There is a big difference, even when we all say the same things.

I know sexism when I see it, and quite a few GPers have a problem. I didn’t single out Europeia, though for how high Europeia has built its pedestal, I’d expect them to call out slights like Wolf’s “hey lady.” Rather than, you know, dismissing a genuine call-out as “playing the sexism card.” Or, like Rach (former Europeia President!) with a classic retort: “You must be the sexist one for seeing sexism!”

Escade has been playing this game for 5 years. She’s been a GCR Delegate and a long-time minister. She’s been involved in NSGP for years. If you disagree with her, then have a debate, like you would do any other player who isn’t “glittery” or feminine. There are a lot of male players who say the same damn things and are taken seriously as actual experienced players.

[Solorni]

Just look at the way me and Unibot are responded to, then look at half the responses to Escade’s posts. There is a big difference, even when we all say the same things.

There are a lot of male players who say the same damn things and are taken seriously as actual experienced players.

Hey Mister,

I'm not sure if I'd agree that you & especially Unibot are really taken seriously as experienced players. So when you say that Escade, Unibot and yourself are all saying the same things and getting "NSGP hate brigades" maybe it's time for some self-reflection that perhaps what you are saying is the reason for the push back. Let's be honest; when Escade was delegate and serving positions prior to her break she was treated very well by the community. But when she returned from her break and started to say, in your words, all the same things that you and Unibot say... that is when people pushed back against it.

I'll be honest, I do not really recognize Escade since she started to say the same things as you and Unibot. In this very thread, HEM was asking in good faith about TSPs talk against UCRs and the response from Escade was completely absurd. I think you or Unibot would have gotten a very similar response. The difference being that it's probably more expected from you two while many people do not realize, in your words that Escade has been saying the same things as you or Unibot.

The main difference I can see between the responses to Escade here compared to her male peers in yourself & Unibot (your words) are the use of gifs. But, they used gifs because Escade used gifs. I would argue that Escade has been taken more seriously than you or Unibot, and that is why her post on Europeia was taken seriously. Whereas a post by you or Unibot would not have been.