Curious Observations | Funkadelia sold Lazarus to... Adytus?

[Solorni]

Oh, you're not? Who are you targeting then?

In my opinion, players like you.

People with Irish names? Those darn irishmen -_-

[Pentaga Giudici]

The raiders are the one vote stacking the most and yes, Funk did catch the person asking others to vote stack.

So there is proof of both sides doing the same thing.

[Ikania]

Our "political opponents" are not our opponents because they are raiders. We're fighting against a plot to destroy our sovereignty (something you'd think the bitter 'independents' would be prizing right around now) and undermine our democracy. Any and every raider native to Lazarus is welcome to join this movement, there is zero distinction in my eyes as long as you are actually dedicated to the cause. We are not for preserving Lazarus as a defender region, and never have been. Any such claim otherwise is a pure and blatant falsehood. A lie.

Then can you explain why your "movement" is made up of defenders and defender-sympathetic Lazarenes, and only one token raider? I'm sure you're not going to purge all non-defenders; you're just going to purge as many as is necessary, including Funkadelia and anyone you can trump up as being his collaborators, and import more defender vote stackers. Maintaining control over Lazarus doesn't require you to perpetrate a coup.

You have to account for the fact that a decent majority of our population leans defender. This is how it's been for a long time. We have no plans of a purge. And if, after all of this, there is any kind of purge by some kind of demagogic defender supremacist government, then you can come right back and call me a liar. I welcome you to hold me to my word on this. As previously mentioned, the lack of much hard facts on importation sets out a pretty good picture of how well anyone can be tried in our courts for it. We are all committed to the preservation of the Mandate and rendering justice in the region. Period.

What good does an amendment to allow the Lazarene military to raid do in the hands of a decisive defender majority? That is the "proof" we keep hearing that you folks are so tolerant of non-defenders. If defenders reassert control over Lazarus, that amendment will just be used to your ends. It proves nothing, in the hands of defenders, except that the Lazarene military is now free to join the Wardens in invading raider regions.

Are you familiar with the concept of Westphalian Sovereignty?

The ones destroying Lazarus' sovereignty and undermining its democracy are you folks. Funkadelia must act to stop you and remove the threat you pose.

So you concede at this point that the word of the law is entirely irrelevant and unnecessary to your perspective?

[Cormactopia Prime]

So you concede at this point that the word of the law is entirely irrelevant and unnecessary to your perspective?

Does that surprise you? I place the best interests of Feeder and Sinker communities ahead of observation of the law on my list of priorities, and that's hardly news. What is important is that what needs to be done for Lazarus is done, and done decisively, not what the law says about it.

Laws exist to serve Feeder and Sinker communities. Feeder and Sinker communities do not exist to serve laws.

[Canton Empire]

So you concede at this point that the word of the law is entirely irrelevant and unnecessary to your perspective?

Does that surprise you? I place the best interests of Feeder and Sinker communities ahead of observation of the law on my list of priorities, and that's hardly news. What is important is that what needs to be done for Lazarus is done, and done decisively, not what the law says about it.

Laws exist to serve Feeder and Sinker communities. Feeder and Sinker communities do not exist to serve laws.

Aren't you a defender?

[Cormactopia Prime]

Does that surprise you? I place the best interests of Feeder and Sinker communities ahead of observation of the law on my list of priorities, and that's hardly news. What is important is that what needs to be done for Lazarus is done, and done decisively, not what the law says about it.

Laws exist to serve Feeder and Sinker communities. Feeder and Sinker communities do not exist to serve laws.

Aren't you a defender?

No? I'm non-aligned. I defended while I was a member of the SPSF because that's what the SPSF did at the time, and like many non-aligned people I agree with people of a particular alignment on some things and disagree with them on others. I don't agree with defenders subverting Lazarus.

[Glen-Rhodes]

So you concede at this point that the word of the law is entirely irrelevant and unnecessary to your perspective?

Does that surprise you? I place the best interests of Feeder and Sinker communities ahead of observation of the law on my list of priorities, and that's hardly news. What is important is that what needs to be done for Lazarus is done, and done decisively, not what the law says about it.

Laws exist to serve Feeder and Sinker communities. Feeder and Sinker communities do not exist to serve laws.

This is laughably untrue, given all the antics you pulled in TSP. Either you're lying here (because you flip flop like a dying fish), or you spent the last 6 months in TSP obsessed over our security laws for some reason other than believing in rule of law.

I also remember you singing a very different tune when the PRL was created. And literally a couple days ago when you were ranting about the NLO.

[Tinhampton]

Does that surprise you? I place the best interests of Feeder and Sinker communities ahead of observation of the law on my list of priorities, and that's hardly news. What is important is that what needs to be done for Lazarus is done, and done decisively, not what the law says about it.

Laws exist to serve Feeder and Sinker communities. Feeder and Sinker communities do not exist to serve laws.

This is laughably untrue, given all the antics you pulled in TSP.

Also, didn't Cormactopia Prime (in particular) fly the flag of The Invaders around September-ish?

[RiderSyl]

It still seems like I and the cool headphones person are the only people to realize that lots of people are talking, but no one is listening.

I too give props to Corm, he's so good at getting his idea across that I think he's either completely lying and a genius, or completely telling the truth and only seeing half the picture.

I wish I took a debate class with that guy, think how much better I would do when I ran for office.

Thank you, cool nation name person. Seriously, "Five Causes" is an amazing concept to base a nation's name off of. I wish I was that creative with my name.
But I digress. It's very telling when through 14 pages and countless posts, the first opinion that gets Lazarene native support is essentially "Most of this thread is white noise". That opinion doesn't imply that anything is bullshit, though. Quite the contrary. Nothing said here is bullshit, necessarily. You've all made your points and just looking at the bare-bones of it, they're valid. The problem is, none of you are listening to each other, and all of you are filling this thread with meaningless drivel.

I mean, more than half of this thread is either Cormac making posts unrelated to Lazarus, or people dredging up Cormac's past unrelated to Lazarus, to the point where this thread should truly be renamed "Curious Observations | All About Cormac - also something about lazarus". The rest, honestly, doesn't even matter, because whether or not it's civil conversation or accusations and snark, when there's so much drama surrounding it, it gets destroyed like it's near a devastating black hole of attention. As far as anyone's concerned, why look at the space rocks when - OH WOW LOOK AT THAT THE BLACK HOLE PRODUCED ANOTHER SALTY COMMENT, GRAB YOUR TELESCOPES!

Going back to the native Lazarene, it's probably more telling of the nature of this whole endeavor that the accepted opinion is being dispensed not by a Guardian in Lazarus, but a Guardian in Osiris. Of all the players that have commented here, with all their resumes and positions, it's me that gets agreed with. That's not a sign that I'm the Holy dispenser of truth and you should all bow down to my cool headphones. When my comparatively sorry self is the voice that gets listened to by the natives in a region that I have absolutely no stock in, that's a sign you have all failed, miserably. And you have to do better. No matter what side you've picked in this fight, you need to do better.

[The NAtion OF Froggy]

But I digress. It's very telling when through 14 pages and countless posts, the first opinion that gets Lazarene native support is essentially "Most of this thread is white noise". That opinion doesn't imply that anything is bullshit, though. Quite the contrary. Nothing said here is bullshit, necessarily. You've all made your points and just looking at the bare-bones of it, they're valid. The problem is, none of you are listening to each other, and all of you are filling this thread with meaningless drivel.

I mean, more than half of this thread is either Cormac making posts unrelated to Lazarus, or people dredging up Cormac's past unrelated to Lazarus, to the point where this thread should truly be renamed "Curious Observations | All About Cormac - also something about lazarus". The rest, honestly, doesn't even matter, because whether or not it's civil conversation or accusations and snark, when there's so much drama surrounding it, it gets destroyed like it's near a devastating black hole of attention. As far as anyone's concerned, why look at the space rocks when - OH WOW LOOK AT THAT THE BLACK HOLE PRODUCED ANOTHER SALTY COMMENT, GRAB YOUR TELESCOPES!

I quite agree I was not back when this thread started and I went back and read and about half way through I was like when did this stop being about the OP... and more what was, I mean thats how some of these threads go but still. It gets less fun to watch and read and want to start partaking.

But Lazarus has been the new place to go to from what I view as a newer player outside of my old npo views, I was not a big player when Osiris was being Osiris or balder or TEP or the other coups.

But a few days ago I joked about this and I meant it as A joke but it was not actually a joke, I just goes these coups are a occurance for players when it seems like they need to fuel one aspect of their game/agenda. I know some coups or vote importing is done for the lulz and stuff and I have never been a big R/D fan and I never will but this is A political simulation coups happen and yes I get butthurtness will ensue because of all the work put into a region. I did a lot for the region I came from people from their will say and yes, it sucks watching the work fade and basically get forgotten but this salty rehashing fails to do more then rehash history which isn't being learned from, Delegates and their underlings aren't to be trusted. If you cant trust your IRL government why do you expect trust from nationstates user?

Lazarus citizens and allies need to stand up and do what they can, yes. I get that the scales are tipped unfairly in one direction but If you want security why entrust someone else for It. They only way you can be secure is if you change the state quo. In my opinion. I'm newer at this political non trolling side. apologies for my spelling and grammar errors, typing is not my strong suit.

[Vuori Kunin-Grrs]

Going back to the native Lazarene, it's probably more telling of the nature of this whole endeavor that the accepted opinion is being dispensed not by a Guardian in Lazarus, but a Guardian in Osiris. Of all the players that have commented here, with all their resumes and positions, it's me that gets agreed with. That's not a sign that I'm the Holy dispenser of truth and you should all bow down to my cool headphones. When my comparatively sorry self is the voice that gets listened to by the natives in a region that I have absolutely no stock in, that's a sign you have all failed, miserably. And you have to do better. No matter what side you've picked in this fight, you need to do better.

Well then:

What place do we, the interregional community, have in this voter importation in Lazarus? Is watchful waiting appropriate for this situation? Or should we take action?

Is the perpetrator of this voter importation important in this case? Do we need to find the identity of the perpetrator before making conclusions? Can we simply make a judgement based on the importation itself?

Can we, as a community, work towards a unified effort for the betterment of Lazarus in its current voter importation controversy? Can we stop trying to see who did what and instead attack the action and its effects directly as one community?

This, in my opinion, is much more orientated towards what we can do for them: Lazarenes.

[Canton Empire]

Going back to the native Lazarene, it's probably more telling of the nature of this whole endeavor that the accepted opinion is being dispensed not by a Guardian in Lazarus, but a Guardian in Osiris. Of all the players that have commented here, with all their resumes and positions, it's me that gets agreed with. That's not a sign that I'm the Holy dispenser of truth and you should all bow down to my cool headphones. When my comparatively sorry self is the voice that gets listened to by the natives in a region that I have absolutely no stock in, that's a sign you have all failed, miserably. And you have to do better. No matter what side you've picked in this fight, you need to do better.

Well then:

What place do we, the interregional community, have in this voter importation in Lazarus? Is watchful waiting appropriate for this situation? Or should we take action?

Is the perpetrator of this voter importation important in this case? Do we need to find the identity of the perpetrator before making conclusions? Can we simply make a judgement based on the importation itself?

Can we, as a community, work towards a unified effort for the betterment of Lazarus in its current voter importation controversy? Can we stop trying to see who did what and instead attack the action and its effects directly as one community?

This, in my opinion, is much more orientated towards what we can do for them: Lazarenes.

Perhaps you could leave Lazarus alone and let them settle their own issues?

Let's be real. What would Lazarus, at this point in time, actual do for defenderism? Serve as a useless trophy? I doubt Lazarus would give any tangible benefits to the Defender movement at this point.

[Vuori Kunin-Grrs]

Perhaps you could leave Lazarus alone and let them settle their own issues?

Let's be real. What would Lazarus, at this point in time, actual do for defenderism? Serve as a useless trophy? I doubt Lazarus would give any tangible benefits to the Defender movement at this point.

Well, why even bother to discuss its benefits to defenderdom at this point? Every region has a choice by its community.

[Canton Empire]

Perhaps you could leave Lazarus alone and let them settle their own issues?

Let's be real. What would Lazarus, at this point in time, actual do for defenderism? Serve as a useless trophy? I doubt Lazarus would give any tangible benefits to the Defender movement at this point.

Well, why even bother to discuss its benefits to defenderdom at this point? Every region has a choice by its community.

Well, you're the one asking what the interregional community should do. So naturally you have to ask what benefits Lazarus gives to the interregional community.

[Vuori Kunin-Grrs]

Well, why even bother to discuss its benefits to defenderdom at this point? Every region has a choice by its community.

Well, you're the one asking what the interregional community should do. So naturally you have to ask what benefits Lazarus gives to the interregional community.

Yes, we need to generalize, not specialize upon defenderdom (coughs [And Raiderdom!] coughs) in this. This is all about Gameplay unity: working together to achieve a common goal without our GP orientation interfering.

[Ikania]

Going back to the native Lazarene, it's probably more telling of the nature of this whole endeavor that the accepted opinion is being dispensed not by a Guardian in Lazarus, but a Guardian in Osiris. Of all the players that have commented here, with all their resumes and positions, it's me that gets agreed with. That's not a sign that I'm the Holy dispenser of truth and you should all bow down to my cool headphones. When my comparatively sorry self is the voice that gets listened to by the natives in a region that I have absolutely no stock in, that's a sign you have all failed, miserably. And you have to do better. No matter what side you've picked in this fight, you need to do better.

Well then:

What place do we, the interregional community, have in this voter importation in Lazarus? Is watchful waiting appropriate for this situation? Or should we take action?

Is the perpetrator of this voter importation important in this case? Do we need to find the identity of the perpetrator before making conclusions? Can we simply make a judgement based on the importation itself?

Can we, as a community, work towards a unified effort for the betterment of Lazarus in its current voter importation controversy? Can we stop trying to see who did what and instead attack the action and its effects directly as one community?

This, in my opinion, is much more orientated towards what we can do for them: Lazarenes.

What I would hope for is verbal support for the interregional community to pressure our corrupt government into upholding the integrity of the offices they were elected/appointed to, and to stop breaking the law.

[Canton Empire]

Well, you're the one asking what the interregional community should do. So naturally you have to ask what benefits Lazarus gives to the interregional community.

Yes, we need to generalize, not specialize upon defenderdom (coughs [And Raiderdom!] coughs) in this. This is all about Gameplay unity: working together to achieve a common goal without our GP orientation interfering.

But it's not about Gameplay unity at all. If anything, it's about Cormac trying to widen the gap between the two sides and trying to get some political capital in Lazarus if Funk coups.

[RiderSyl]

Yes, we need to generalize, not specialize upon defenderdom (coughs [And Raiderdom!] coughs) in this. This is all about Gameplay unity: working together to achieve a common goal without our GP orientation interfering.

But it's not about Gameplay unity at all. If anything, it's about Cormac trying to widen the gap between the two sides and trying to get some political capital in Lazarus if Funk coups.

My post really did fall upon deaf ears... or rather, blind eyes. It's not about 'Gameplay unity'. Your typical Lazarus nation couldn't give two flips about whether raiders and defenders get along and I don't blame them. It's not about Cormac, either.

"If anything", it's about the Lazarenes. Sadly they're struggling to find a voice to represent them in this thread about them because everyone's pushing these narratives that are barely relevant to the situation they're facing.

[The Church of Satan]

Funkadelia and those aiding him in the subversion of Lazarene law are not our enemies, political or otherwise. They, with the exception of imported voters, are our fellow Lazarenes and we do not desire to purge or minimalize their role in the region. We only wish to set things right and resume pursuing a better, stronger Lazarus, together.

[Vuori Kunin-Grrs]

My post really did fall upon deaf ears... or rather, blind eyes. It's not about 'Gameplay unity'. Your typical Lazarus nation couldn't give two flips about whether raiders and defenders get along and I don't blame them. It's not about Cormac, either.

"If anything", it's about the Lazarenes. Sadly they're struggling to find a voice to represent them in this thread about them because everyone's pushing these narratives that are barely relevant to the situation they're facing.

I meant Gameplay unity on the situation of the Lazarenes...

[Dirty Yellow Pickles]

Funkadelia and those aiding him in the subversion of Lazarene law are not our enemies, political or otherwise. They, with the exception of imported voters, are our fellow Lazarenes and we do not desire to purge or minimalize their role in the region. We only wish to set things right and resume pursuing a better, stronger Lazarus, together.

Then shut up in the GP forum. You're not helping anyone bit possible yourself (Not even that to be honest).

[The Church of Satan]

Right, I should just stay silent while Cormac, Rachel and others who don't actually have a stake in the outcome speak their blind propaganda unopposed. As if I care what you think. Who even are you little fish? This ocean is clearly too big for you. Go back to whatever stream you flailed up to get here. xD

[Altmoras]

Right, I should just stay silent while Cormac, Rachel and others who don't actually have a stake in the outcome speak their blind propaganda unopposed. As if I care what you think. Who even are you little fish? This ocean is clearly too big for you. Go back to whatever stream you flailed up to get here. xD

Like 65% sure that's DYP.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Funkadelia and those aiding him in the subversion of Lazarene law are not our enemies, political or otherwise. They, with the exception of imported voters, are our fellow Lazarenes and we do not desire to purge or minimalize their role in the region. We only wish to set things right and resume pursuing a better, stronger Lazarus, together.

And how will you determine "imported voters," and what will you do with them? That exception that you glossed over is actually fairly important, because what you're essentially saying is that Funkadelia and a nameless few others can stay, but the "imported voters" apparently have to go. What this means, if you read between the lines, is that you want to purge new non-defender citizens, which of course will politically weaken and marginalize Funkadelia, et al., ensuring defender hegemony over Lazarus continues and Funkadelia, et al. are political non-entities.

Why should defender-userites get to decide which citizenship applicants are "imported voters" without any hard evidence? Why should non-defender citizenship applicants face discrimination and rejection based on speculation? How does that benefit Lazarus?

Right, I should just stay silent while Cormac, Rachel and others who don't actually have a stake in the outcome speak their blind propaganda unopposed. As if I care what you think. Who even are you little fish? This ocean is clearly too big for you. Go back to whatever stream you flailed up to get here. xD

Neither of us, nor anyone else, would be commenting on anything had this not been dragged into Gameplay in the first place by your defender-userite faction, in an attempt to publicly smear Funkadelia, et al., and drum up interregional pressure against them -- which has so far failed, except in the case of the Coalition of the South Pacific, a defender-userite regime supporting a defender-userite agenda in Lazarus.

If you didn't want commentary from the peanut gallery, your defender-userite faction shouldn't have dragged this into Gameplay, and DYP (if that's him) is right in saying that you're not doing yourselves any favors here. You've lost the propaganda war before it even really began.

[Glen-Rhodes]

So what fancy title is Cormac hoping for, guys? After fantastically exploding in TSP, getting exiled from Osiris, and being considered too much of a serial flip-flopper to be really accepted most places, which of Lazarus or TWP will give him a reward for his ingratiation? Or do we think he's going to end up back in Osiris?