Curious Observations | Funkadelia sold Lazarus to... Adytus?

[Moric Benyovszky]

"Unibotian moralism", as you call it, has been rejected. It's a fact. UDL-style overt and covert meddling by defender organizations in GCRs does not occur anymore. It's a fact. And if you wish to judge me, then do it based on what I wrote above, which is true and demonstrable and not typical imperialist conspiracy. Because here's the truth: The only place where the ideals you refer to as "Unibotian Moralism" and "Defenderism in GCRs" survive is with those who keep bringing it up Alex-Jones-like to attempt to strike fear in a desperate attempt to remain remotely relevant in a world that has (rightfully) begun to shift away from them.

That statement rings hollow, coming from a person who, during their term as Minister of Military Affairs in The South Pacific, took great pains to take the decidedly independent-leaning military that Imkitopia had built up at the time, and turn it into defender support that it became.

[Roavin]

"Unibotian moralism", as you call it, has been rejected. It's a fact. UDL-style overt and covert meddling by defender organizations in GCRs does not occur anymore. It's a fact. And if you wish to judge me, then do it based on what I wrote above, which is true and demonstrable and not typical imperialist conspiracy. Because here's the truth: The only place where the ideals you refer to as "Unibotian Moralism" and "Defenderism in GCRs" survive is with those who keep bringing it up Alex-Jones-like to attempt to strike fear in a desperate attempt to remain remotely relevant in a world that has (rightfully) begun to shift away from them.

That statement rings hollow, coming from a person who, during their term as Minister of Military Affairs in The South Pacific, took great pains to take the decidedly independent-leaning military that Imkitopia had built up at the time, and turn it into defender support that it became.

... did you read what I wrote just a paragraph above that?

I'll refer you to my campaign at the time, in particular the Q&A session posted near the end, and will note that my predictions rang true. It's part of why SPSF is the most active GCR military around (and it's not playing second fiddle to the "big defenders" - quite the contrary, many bigger operations were and are led by SPSF personnel!)

[Kalinin K-8]

All I can say is that there's something strange going on here, and that this importation is definitely not what to focus on....

Namely, such importation will definitely affect Lazarus' elections, but what is behind it and why would the entity want to do such a thing doesn't point towards voter importation. Why would they import voters to cause a commotion? To shield something else?

Voter importation isn't the most undercover thing to be done. However, it does look like something will happen to Lazarus - perhaps an Osiris-like coup? I'd say that something big has been happening, and what it is will come out soon.

[Neo Kervoskia]

[Roavin]

All I can say is that there's something strange going on here, and that this importation is definitely not what to focus on....

Namely, such importation will definitely affect Lazarus' elections, but what is behind it and why would the entity want to do such a thing doesn't point towards voter importation. Why would they import voters to cause a commotion? To shield something else?

Voter importation isn't the most undercover thing to be done. However, it does look like something will happen to Lazarus - perhaps an Osiris-like coup? I'd say that something big has been happening, and what it is will come out soon.

Voter importation isn't invisible, but usually goes relatively unscrutinized (not in this case, since Curious Person brought it up here). But even if it's not the most invisible, it's also blindingly effective in a democratic system like Lazarus.

[Solorni]

Rather, it was with regards to repealing the section of law forbidding the Lazarene military from taking offensive actions. This passed with flying colors. Do you want to know who was among those who supported its repeal?

Me.

Isn't this in line with the flavour of defender ideology of TGW? This point at least, is not evidence of you supporting a motion opposite to defender beliefs.

---

On another note, I think it makes a lot of sense if Unibot is the OP. Making and keeping Lazarus defender has been a major goal for him. In addition, it makes sense why he would want to do this anonymously compared to other NSers. As well, Unibot has done this sort of thing before. Are there really any other better examples of defenders interested in GCR politics who feel their name might hurt their arguments?

---

I'm also curious, why is it that it seems to be that the concept of taking over and maintaining GCRs for defender purposes is seen as inappropriate even by defenders?

[Canton Empire]

I'm interested to see how these new citizens will affect the Delegate/Vice Delegate/Convenor races in August.

[Reploid Productions]

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An image macro with no actual commentary relevant to the thread? Stop that, it's pure spam.

[Roavin]

Rather, it was with regards to repealing the section of law forbidding the Lazarene military from taking offensive actions. This passed with flying colors. Do you want to know who was among those who supported its repeal?

Me.

Isn't this in line with the flavour of defender ideology of TGW? This point at least, is not evidence of you supporting a motion opposite to defender beliefs.

I suppose that's a fair point, though the thread I linked does not argue for TGW-style striking of invaders, but rather to allow offensive actions for the purposes of the region itself. That way it could, say, blanketly target fascist regions, or strike at a non-arbitrary target for FA reasons. "Region first", basically.

I'm also curious, why is it that it seems to be that the concept of taking over and maintaining GCRs for defender purposes is seen as inappropriate even by defenders?

I can't answer for others, but personally - it's just a logical extension of respecting a region's right to self-determination and the sovereignty of natives over what they call their home.

[Cormactopia Prime]

All I can see is that you re-arranging my words, which have been stated independently from each other in a way, to not only insult the Crown Prince of Balder as Userite, but on the same time make it look like I would openly state to have NES purged. This being said, this is you, not me. And proves my point yet again, you are forcefully trying to stir unrest among even allied Feeders and Sinkers.

I literally just quoted your words and didn't rearrange anything. It's quite clear you were implying that NES is a userite, that it was correct to purge him and others from Lazarus, and that the NPO was justified in perpetrating a coup against Lazarus. I realize Aleisyr has been reading Gameplay this evening and has probably ordered you to back pedal, but there is no back pedaling from this. Your words are your words. You said them. You are responsible for them, and if the NPO doesn't want associated with them, Aleisyr should dismiss you.

Aleisyr should dismiss you anyway, since you are too attached to your userite friends, the Grey Wardens. Who knows what the NPO will look like when you become Emperor? Probably just a Warden outpost and recruitment pool. It will be sad to see the day the NPO is reduced to that. If I were Aleisyr, I would not want to be the person responsible for reducing it to that condition by allowing you to become Emperor. I also would not want to be the one responsible for the NPO's impending and total diplomatic collapse by not taking swift action to dismiss you. But I'm not Aleisyr, so I guess we'll see how much he values the NPO's independence and diplomatic standing. Clock's ticking.

What I said however, just points out that the non-relevant factor of TGW (they are irrelevant), can be cut out in regards of Lazarus, as they are no TGW supporters flooding Lazarus, rather LWU supporters doing so.

Ah, I see. I suppose Cokeland and Izon being masked as Wardens on the Warden forum is an error then. The other defenders showing up are probably just a coincidence as well. And of course we should read nothing into Escade and Seraph suddenly showing up from TSP.

I considered it important to mention it yet again, also to suggest an ally of the Pacific which hatred actually could be fostered into purpose in that regard. We shouldn't be working against each other, especially not based upon your poor accusations and false merit, Cormac. The Feeders and Sinkers should work together, not only to protect each other, at best by joining the Accords but also to make themselves aware of an all looming Userite threat.

Your friends the Grey Wardens are the looming userite threat. By associating with them, betraying your Feeder's interests in favor of them, and throwing Pacifica's allies under the bus to support them, you have made yourself a disgrace to Francoism and the New Pacific Order.

[Metal Mekhet]

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An image macro with no actual commentary relevant to the thread? Stop that, it's pure spam.

He's implying he's behind these events, because his group (Rahls) are accused as such. May not be the best way to get the point across, but it was relevant.

[Canton Empire]

All I can see is that you re-arranging my words, which have been stated independently from each other in a way, to not only insult the Crown Prince of Balder as Userite, but on the same time make it look like I would openly state to have NES purged. This being said, this is you, not me. And proves my point yet again, you are forcefully trying to stir unrest among even allied Feeders and Sinkers.

I literally just quoted your words and didn't rearrange anything. It's quite clear you were implying that NES is a userite, that it was correct to purge him and others from Lazarus, and that the NPO was justified in perpetrating a coup against Lazarus. I realize Aleisyr has been reading Gameplay this evening and has probably ordered you to back pedal, but there is no back pedaling from this. Your words are your words. You said them. You are responsible for them, and if the NPO doesn't want associated with them, Aleisyr should dismiss you.

Aleisyr should dismiss you anyway, since you are too attached to your userite friends, the Grey Wardens. Who knows what the NPO will look like when you become Emperor? Probably just a Warden outpost and recruitment pool. It will be sad to see the day the NPO is reduced to that. If I were Aleisyr, I would not want to be the person responsible for reducing it to that condition by allowing you to become Emperor. I also would not want to be the one responsible for the NPO's impending and total diplomatic collapse by not taking swift action to dismiss you. But I'm not Aleisyr, so I guess we'll see how much he values the NPO's independence and diplomatic standing. Clock's ticking.

What I said however, just points out that the non-relevant factor of TGW (they are irrelevant), can be cut out in regards of Lazarus, as they are no TGW supporters flooding Lazarus, rather LWU supporters doing so.

Ah, I see. I suppose Cokeland and Izon being masked as Wardens on the Warden forum is an error then. The other defenders showing up are probably just a coincidence as well. And of course we should read nothing into Escade and Seraph suddenly showing up from TSP.

I considered it important to mention it yet again, also to suggest an ally of the Pacific which hatred actually could be fostered into purpose in that regard. We shouldn't be working against each other, especially not based upon your poor accusations and false merit, Cormac. The Feeders and Sinkers should work together, not only to protect each other, at best by joining the Accords but also to make themselves aware of an all looming Userite threat.

Your friends the Grey Wardens are the looming userite threat. By associating with them, betraying your Feeder's interests in favor of them, and throwing Pacifica's allies under the bus to support them, you have made yourself a disgrace to Francoism and the New Pacific Order.

Cokeland popping up on the Forums has nothing to do with all this trust me. And Izon coming back doesn't either. And how are the NPO and Perg friends with TGW? They just fashbash together

[Roavin]

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An image macro with no actual commentary relevant to the thread? Stop that, it's pure spam.

To be fair, it wasn't completely irrelevant, given NK's role in the Rahl family and classic association with the Empire. I got a slight chuckle out of it for that very reason.

Aleisyr should dismiss you anyway, since you are too attached to your userite friends, the Grey Wardens.

We've been at odds too, y'know. St Abbaddon comes to mind.

Ah, I see. I suppose Cokeland and Izon being masked as Wardens on the Warden forum is an error then. The other defenders showing up are probably just a coincidence as well. And of course we should read nothing into Escade and Seraph suddenly showing up from TSP.

Izon was Lazarene before he was a Warden, I believe - either way, he's been in both forever. Cokeland recently left his home region Europeia and joined Laz on his own (moved his main nation and everything). Seraph was in Lazarus before as well.

Your friends the Grey Wardens are the looming userite threat.

The looming userite threat, led by a feederite that has explicitly vetoed the kind of things that would make them a userite threat. Checks out.

[Moric Benyovszky]

... did you read what I wrote just a paragraph above that?

I'll refer you to my campaign at the time, in particular the Q&A session posted near the end, and will note that my predictions rang true. It's part of why SPSF is the most active GCR military around (and it's not playing second fiddle to the "big defenders" - quite the contrary, many bigger operations were and are led by SPSF personnel!)

Plenty of pretty words that do precious little to refute the crux of my argument. Is it not true that you, using your position, executed a noticeable shift in policy, changing it to one closer aligned to your moralist views? From my perspective, the only difference between yours and Funkadelia's actions are that you did not have a democratic system to contend with to push through changes.

Cokeland popping up on the Forums has nothing to do with all this trust me. And Izon coming back doesn't either. And how are the NPO and Perg friends with TGW? They just fashbash together

Actions speak louder than words. You are sorely mistaken if you believe 'fashbashing' is the only extent of their collaboration.

[Canton Empire]

... did you read what I wrote just a paragraph above that?

I'll refer you to my campaign at the time, in particular the Q&A session posted near the end, and will note that my predictions rang true. It's part of why SPSF is the most active GCR military around (and it's not playing second fiddle to the "big defenders" - quite the contrary, many bigger operations were and are led by SPSF personnel!)

Plenty of pretty words that do precious little to refute the crux of my argument. Is it not true that you, using your position, executed a noticeable shift in policy, changing it to one closer aligned to your moralist views? From my perspective, the only difference between yours and Funkadelia's actions are that you did not have a democratic system to contend with to push through changes.

Cokeland popping up on the Forums has nothing to do with all this trust me. And Izon coming back doesn't either. And how are the NPO and Perg friends with TGW? They just fashbash together

Actions speak louder than words. You are sorely mistaken if you believe 'fashbashing' is the only extent of their collaboration.

I'd believe you more if you weren't hiding behind a puppet.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Ah, I see. I suppose Cokeland and Izon being masked as Wardens on the Warden forum is an error then. The other defenders showing up are probably just a coincidence as well. And of course we should read nothing into Escade and Seraph suddenly showing up from TSP.

Izon was Lazarene before he was a Warden, I believe - either way, he's been in both forever. Cokeland recently left his home region Europeia and joined Laz on his own (moved his main nation and everything). Seraph was in Lazarus before as well.

So we're supposed to accept these alternative explanations for why defenders and defender-leaners are showing up instead of a conspiracy theory, but non-defenders showing up is automatically a conspiracy with no possible other explanations. Funny how that works.

Your friends the Grey Wardens are the looming userite threat.

The looming userite threat, led by a feederite that has explicitly vetoed the kind of things that would make them a userite threat. Checks out.

Of course you've publicly vetoed them. And yet someone is driving this coordinated defender propaganda strike forward, and we all know there is only one defender organization at the moment that has both the resources and the skills to do it. Guess who runs that organization?

I'd believe you more if you weren't hiding behind a puppet.

The irony of this from someone who has completely bought into the OP's narrative, despite his anonymity, is mind boggling.

[Moric Benyovszky]

I'd believe you more if you weren't hiding behind a puppet.

Yet ready to believe the words of the anonymous OP, seemingly. Funny how things work like that.

As any active GPer could tell you, the NPO has played a significant part in more than a few high-profile liberation attempts over the past several months, notably the JTF's occupation of St Abbaddon and the RaiderCon hold of Ankh Mauta.

[Shizensky]

I'm also curious, why is it that it seems to be that the concept of taking over and maintaining GCRs for defender purposes is seen as inappropriate even by defenders?

In my experience and from numerous conversations with other defenders, it's a determined effort to reject the "Unibotian" approach. We prefer to offer an open and inviting community over employing subversive or manipulative tactics. It turns out that if you're honest with people instead of lying to them, they actually enjoy your company. Who'd have thought?

I can't be the only one who feels like the others attacking all defenders are being awfully selective in their arguments. Roavin, a dedicated defender, wants the regions he's involved in to be defender-aligned. Does someone's opinion constitute a conspiracy these days? If someone wants to suggest that Roavin's alignment is a sign of the Defender Illuminati trying to flip GCRs, how do these same people stay quiet when now-raider Funkadelia wants the region he's involved in to not be exclusively defender? Both of these individuals are bringing their personal beliefs and preferences to the table, and yet it's only a grand conspiracy when the defender does it.

I don't buy it.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not accusing Funk's alignment of being a part of some crazy conspiracy just because he's a raider.

I'm interested to hear a response from someone in Lazarus who can refute the accusations instead of the outsiders who insist on adding noise.

[Canton Empire]

I'd believe you more if you weren't hiding behind a puppet.

Yet ready to believe the words of the anonymous OP, seemingly. Funny how things work like that.

As any active GPer could tell you, the NPO has played a significant part in more than a few high-profile liberation attempts over the past several months, notably the JTF's occupation of St Abbaddon and the RaiderCon hold of Ankh Mauta.

The OP backed up what they said with facts.

And Cormac, I'm not buying into any narrative, and I refuse to buy into your bullshit illuminati conspiracy with the Rahl's and TWP and Osiris and the NPO. It's another flaming turd. What I do belive, is that Lazarene democratic institutions are under attack here, which should be the focus right now.

[Ikania]

I'm also curious, why is it that it seems to be that the concept of taking over and maintaining GCRs for defender purposes is seen as inappropriate even by defenders?

In my experience and from numerous conversations with other defenders, it's a determined effort to reject the "Unibotian" approach. We prefer to offer an open and inviting community over employing subversive or manipulative tactics. It turns out that if you're honest with people instead of lying to them, they actually enjoy your company. Who'd have thought?

I can't be the only one who feels like the others attacking all defenders are being awfully selective in their arguments. Roavin, a dedicated defender, wants the regions he's involved in to be defender-aligned. Does someone's opinion constitute a conspiracy these days? If someone wants to suggest that Roavin's alignment is a sign of the Defender Illuminati trying to flip GCRs, how do these same people stay quiet when now-raider Funkadelia wants the region he's involved in to not be exclusively defender? Both of these individuals are bringing their personal beliefs and preferences to the table, and yet it's only a grand conspiracy when the defender does it.

I don't buy it.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not accusing Funk's alignment of being a part of some crazy conspiracy just because he's a raider.

I'm interested to hear a response from someone in Lazarus who can refute the accusations instead of the outsiders who insist on adding noise.

You'll be hard pressed to find many Lazarene natives who will stick up for Funk in the face of such blatant corruption.

[Cormactopia Prime]

And Cormac, I'm not buying into any narrative, and I refuse to buy into your bullshit illuminati conspiracy with the Rahl's and TWP and Osiris and the NPO. It's another flaming turd. What I do belive, is that Lazarene democratic institutions are under attack here, which should be the focus right now.

If you believe Lazarene democratic institutions are under attack, with only the circumstantial evidence offered by the OP, then you are in fact buying into his narrative. A majority exercising its power as it chooses isn't an attack on democracy, it is democracy.

[The Riots of America]

TL;DR: An anon posts evidence, which anyone can check, of a rapidly growing raider majority in Lazarus affecting important votes. This proves that Roavin is masterminding the defender takeover of all GCRs.

[Canton Empire]

And Cormac, I'm not buying into any narrative, and I refuse to buy into your bullshit illuminati conspiracy with the Rahl's and TWP and Osiris and the NPO. It's another flaming turd. What I do belive, is that Lazarene democratic institutions are under attack here, which should be the focus right now.

If you believe Lazarene democratic institutions are under attack, with only the circumstantial evidence offered by the OP, then you are in fact buying into his narrative. A majority exercising its power as it chooses isn't an attack on democracy, it is democracy.

So:
Celestial Being of Lazarus blocks appointees to the court, based of the amount of new citizens entering and quickly voting on these nominations.
Sovereign Funkadelia immediately tries to remove this power from the Celestial Being.
Funkadelia tries to stop Harmonia(spellcheck please) from being reconfirmed as a Guardian.
This is opposed by Amerion, Fellow Guardian and the only person able to stop Funk in the event of a coup
Funk files trumped up charges against Amerion.



How is this not an attack on Democracy?

[Cormactopia Prime]

TL;DR: An anon posts evidence, which anyone can check, of a rapidly growing raider majority in Lazarus affecting important votes. This proves that Roavin is masterminding the defender takeover of all GCRs.

The evidence doesn't match the claims made. The evidence shows only that non-defenders are applying for citizenship and voting as one might expect non-defenders to vote; it doesn't show collusion to deliberately bring them to Lazarus to vote stack.

Unless someone can prove there is a deliberate plot, you're basically just upset that more non-defenders are coming to Lazarus and moving the region in a different direction as one might expect non-defenders to do given that they aren't defenders and don't see the value in Lazarus remaining defender. That happens, and I'm sure it isn't pleasant for defenders, but there's nothing nefarious about it. If defenders actually cared about Lazarus as a community rather than about keeping it in their sphere, they would welcome the new citizens and the activity they're bringing.

[The Church of Satan]

The evidence offered in the OP was known to numerous Lazarenes for the last week. Among said Lazarenes are Amerion, Harmeonia, Aumelodia and myself. Whomever the person behind the OP is, they are late in discovering this.