Curious Observations | Funkadelia sold Lazarus to... Adytus?

[Cormactopia Prime]

Harmeonia, whom has stood by Lazarus for longer than literally everyone else ever. If that isn't trustworthy then nothing is. It's not like lamb or one of the other LWU pawns, with all that green painted on them, can come at all close to that level of trust and loyalty to a region they've been in for less than a year or in the case of most of them, less than a month.

When did Funkadelia try to remove Harmoneia from the region?

Myself, whom has dedicated the last three years of his time to Lazarus, stood by it in its most dire moment and always stood up for what was right. That's why Funk, Evil Wolf, lamb and the other vote stackers expedited a baseless motion of no confidence in me as a prelate from proposal to closure in just [i]one hour.[/i ] Because they needed a stooge in the court that has no problem being a criminal, to dismiss all their criminal activity as the work of wild imagination instead of the underhanded, scumbag crimes that they are.

When did Funkadelia try to remove you from the region?

You said Funkadelia was trying to "get rid of" people. In actuality, people are voting to remove you from positions, and that's all they're doing. That isn't at all the same thing as trying to get rid of people from the region. And honestly, when people feel entitled to their positions, it is probably better to remove them and give someone else a shot. Allowing an entrenched elite to dominate the region's positions is bad for growth and activity.

[The Noble Thatcherites]

You said Funkadelia was trying to "get rid of" people. In actuality, people are voting to remove you from positions, and that's all they're doing. That isn't at all the same thing as trying to get rid of people from the region. And honestly, when people feel entitled to their positions, it is probably better to remove them and give someone else a shot. Allowing an entrenched elite to dominate the region's positions is bad for growth and activity.

That is a sad excuse for trying to kick out a native. You need stability and longevity in a government for it to survive. Experience is what a government NEEDS.

[Revolutionary Vanguardism]

snip

Yes, remove long-established members of a community who contribute to the region and replace them with raider lackeys, this will surely help growth and activity

[Aumelodia]

For anyone who still thinks that these are just 'friends' moving in: overnight, six people from the same GP group gaining citizenship and within approximately two hours all voting 'nay' just before the vote closed? Seems a bit more there to me.

Allowing an entrenched elite to dominate the region's positions is bad for growth and activity.

Then why is it okay for Killer Kitty/Evil Wolf, who is already in power as a Guardian, to become Holy Prelate of the Courts as well? Contradictions much.

[The Church of Satan]

And their trying to get rid of Harmeonia is a fact. They tried to remove her as a guardian. Harmeonia is their biggest in-game obstacle. As for me, it wasn't just being voted out. It was a severely rushed vote (which normally requires a few days of discussion before going to vote) that wasn't discussed. Just proposed, hurriedly motioned to vote and closed in one hour.

[Guy]

Harmeonia, whom has stood by Lazarus for longer than literally everyone else ever. If that isn't trustworthy then nothing is. It's not like lamb or one of the other LWU pawns, with all that green painted on them, can come at all close to that level of trust and loyalty to a region they've been in for less than a year or in the case of most of them, less than a month.

When did Funkadelia try to remove Harmoneia from the region?

Myself, whom has dedicated the last three years of his time to Lazarus, stood by it in its most dire moment and always stood up for what was right. That's why Funk, Evil Wolf, lamb and the other vote stackers expedited a baseless motion of no confidence in me as a prelate from proposal to closure in just [i]one hour.[/i ] Because they needed a stooge in the court that has no problem being a criminal, to dismiss all their criminal activity as the work of wild imagination instead of the underhanded, scumbag crimes that they are.

When did Funkadelia try to remove you from the region?

You said Funkadelia was trying to "get rid of" people. In actuality, people are voting to remove you from positions, and that's all they're doing. That isn't at all the same thing as trying to get rid of people from the region. And honestly, when people feel entitled to their positions, it is probably better to remove them and give someone else a shot. Allowing an entrenched elite to dominate the region's positions is bad for growth and activity.

You're either blinded by your own strongly-held beliefs, or being mischievous with the truth.

In just about every orchestrated campaign to change the direction and composition of a region, removing those who might oppose the change from positions of power is the first step. It's like, "how to take over a democratic region 101".

Maybe everyone is innocent, and it's a bunch of hot air. But you're dismissing people's concerns without any serious scrutiny.

[Elegarth]

You're either blinded by your own strongly-held beliefs, or being mischievous with the truth.

In just about every orchestrated campaign to change the direction and composition of a region, removing those who might oppose the change from positions of power is the first step. It's like, "how to take over a democratic region 101".

Maybe everyone is innocent, and it's a bunch of hot air. But you're dismissing people's concerns without any serious scrutiny.

Or purposedly trying to alterate the truth and the news so people will doubt something is going on?? Helping dismiss the issues as mere ghosts?

[RiderSyl]

You're either blinded by your own strongly-held beliefs, or being mischievous with the truth.

In just about every orchestrated campaign to change the direction and composition of a region, removing those who might oppose the change from positions of power is the first step. It's like, "how to take over a democratic region 101".

Maybe everyone is innocent, and it's a bunch of hot air. But you're dismissing people's concerns without any serious scrutiny.

Or purposedly trying to alterate the truth and the news so people will doubt something is going on?? Helping dismiss the issues as mere ghosts?

Or maybe, just maybe, disseminating his opinion?!

[Elegarth]

Or purposedly trying to alterate the truth and the news so people will doubt something is going on?? Helping dismiss the issues as mere ghosts?

Or maybe, just maybe, disseminating his opinion?!

Potentially true. But if I've learned something of Cormac, in all these years of truly enjoying the way he plays the events, he must have something up his sleeve.

See that's why I call him the most entertainment GPer :shrugs:

[United Federated States of Omega]

Or maybe Comrac simply doesn't understand that the leadership of Lazarus successfully compromised judicial elections and by extent the Court?

[The Seeker of Power]

Or maybe Comrac simply doesn't understand that the leadership of Lazarus successfully compromised judicial elections and by extent the Court?

While I do not speak for him (Cormac), I hardly doubt that he fails to understand it per se. He may, however, choose a different interpretation

[Canton Empire]

Can't wait for the Miniluv article on this.

[Metal Mekhet]

Sir or Madam, Curious Observations. Can you reamend Rigel's status to True Native?

Also add in; myself, Yuno, Harmoneia, DYP, Funkadelia, Lamb, All LKE members, Rahl members, and the NPO as True Native status on your list please?

I want to make sure the categorization of labels are represented properly and true. Much obliged.

[Belschaft]

I'm unclear as to why Cormac keeps adding TSP into his defender/NPO conspiracy here? I get that our current PM - Roavin - is prominent in TGW, and thus evil, but our military is currently led by Yuno, a raider. Our cabinet consists of one defender, one raider, and two people who couldn't give a flying fuck.

Maybe something dodgy is going down in Lazarus - I don't know enough to judge - but I really don't get how we're involved, aside from in that Cormac stormed out of TSP in a strop again a few days ago and currently has a hate boner for us?

[Altino]

Yes, actually, please classify me as a True Native. Zao said I could be one and I don't like the idea of being fake news, thank you.

[Trackeendy]

Sir or Madam, Curious Observations. Can you reamend Rigel's status to True Native?

Also add in; myself, Yuno, Harmoneia, DYP, Funkadelia, Lamb, All LKE members, Rahl members, and the NPO as True Native status on your list please?

I want to make sure the categorization of labels are represented properly and true. Much obliged.

The NPO....true natives?
I don't think so.

[Metal Mekhet]

Sir or Madam, Curious Observations. Can you reamend Rigel's status to True Native?

Also add in; myself, Yuno, Harmoneia, DYP, Funkadelia, Lamb, All LKE members, Rahl members, and the NPO as True Native status on your list please?

I want to make sure the categorization of labels are represented properly and true. Much obliged.

The NPO....true natives?
I don't think so.

So, you admit the LKE members were wrongfully purged, and that them and the ones before the NPO and Defender conspiracy are it's True Natives and that everyone​ else is a usurper and pretenders as outsiders?

[North East Somerset]

Unibot, you must be proud.

If indeed the original poster is not just him, or he wasn't personally involved in drafting this.

Because - the author and so many of the defender-aligned posters here are speaking his language - his beliefs, his ideological doctrine and dogma. If he was not directly involved in it, that would prove all the more clearly that his legacy is far from dead, as many have tried to allege. It's no wonder he has been moved to proffer his own analysis of the situation, direct from his own nation as well.

We have been led in recent times to believe that Defenderism has moved on from Unibotian moralism, and certainly we saw attempts to distance them from his tarnished reputation, through the rhetoric of some of their leadership.

But here we see the truth laid bare, not in the rhetoric, but through their actions.

Contrary to recent speculation, its clear Defenderism hasn't moved on at all since Unibot led it. The moralism of Unibot's leadership of the Defender sphere is not just alive and kicking, but it is beating in the hearts of all the Defenders who have crawled out of the woodwork from across the game to make and support their case in this thread.

This thread is Defender Moralism in all its glory. This thread shows us that in two forms:

Firstly, Defenders believe Defenderism is best for Lazarus. That is clearly the unspoken resolve of the defender elite. They cheered at the sidelines whilst DYP and Harmoneia, in concert with the defender sell-outs in NPO, banned the longest serving Delegate in recorded Lazarene history: Griffin Somerset - because she was an independent or imperialist in their view.

They used force to impose a Defender ideological and military status over Lazarus back then, but that was okay. But now, Funkadelia, using his own status, and authority democratic and otherwise in Lazarus, wants to open it up to non-defenders, and carve out an Independent path for it - it's is a conspiracy. It's sheer hypocrisy, but that hasn't stopped Defenders in the past, and it won't today, because it doesn't matter - it doesn't need to be spoken - Defenderism is morally best for Lazarus. Raiders are darkspawn - they are bad. There can be no level playing field in the minds of Defenders, there is one rule for them, and another for others.

Secondly, it shows us how Defenders have once again turned their attention back to their latent and underlying desire to control the Culture of Nationstates Gameplay through the GCRs. Unibot gutted defender military capacity to interfere in GCR politics and dedicated his last couple of years in the game almost exclusively to the cause of promoting Defenderism in GCRs. It didn't work in general because of an organised resistance promoted especially by the Independent sphere - something they had perhaps not reckoned on. But today the resistance is weak and we have all become complacent about the threat, myself included.

Roavin, head of the most powerful Defender Org, the Grey Wardens - has invested his time in TSP, a GCR which is now primarily Defender-aligned. Unibotian moralism and its desire to control and decide the destiny for others, beats in his heart. He serves as Prime Minister there, and now even has moved his WA status in The South Pacific. Running defender tag missions was only going to satisfy them for so long - it is now a secondary consideration compared to influencing GCRs. After all one can run their missions from there too anyway, and convert more people to their cause.

So, Unibot is vindicated. Defenderism has gone full circle in the space of a year or so, and now the shroud is once again falling, to reveal their true desires. They know what is best for Lazarus, it's best that Lazarus stops accepting raider citizens. It so happens that what is best for Lazarus is best for them as well. That is a coincidence though. That is Unibotian Moralism in all its glory.

GCR's: Watch out. Defenderism is back, and its out to get you.

I wish Lazarus well in their struggle for Independence, but this thread shows it will be a struggle indeed. Defenders are clearly not happy to see Lazarus passing from their ideological grip, and they will employ whatever tactics to get it back that they can justify to themselves - this anonymous attack article is just the thin end of the wedge.

[Belschaft]

Roavin has been in TSP a lot longer than he's been in TGW, and the idea that he is/would screw TSP over to benefit defenders is a load of nonsense. At present our military is led by a raider, though remains as independent/non-aligned as ever.

[The Church of Satan]

I've said it once and I'll say it again, this isn't about military alignment. I may be a defender but I voted in favor of Lazarus' independent alignment and supported it. I still do. This is about the subversion of regional law for what seems to be a consolidation of power by Funk and his Lone Wolf cronies. If this was about alignment I would still be Holy Prelate because I honestly don't care what the region's alignment is.

[Tim-Opolis]

The Usual Imperialist Rhetoric

I wonder, NES, do you guys write these ahead of time or do you actually sit down on the spot to spout that much Fox News level propaganda?

It's no surprise, of course, that the faction most involved in subverting GCR sovereignty is the one loudly deflecting now. You'd think they'd at least do their research a bit better, though.

[Galiantus VII]

This has been an interesting excerpt of gameplay to sit on the sidelines and watch, but I feel the need to comment at this point.

Defenderism as an ideology makes sense when you are talking about UCRs. It is obvious who the natives are because ownership clearly coincides with the goals of the founder. However, the same cannot be said of GCRs, as at one point or another one the regime or faction at the helm of a GCR had to manipulate, lie, or directly invade to remove the one before it. So it is that defenders in the GCRs fall into the trap of advocating the status quo and see any change as a threat to the region as a whole.

As for raiders, I think the threat they pose to GCRs is minimal, at best. As players with a desire to see military gameplay join GCRs you are naturally going to see those GCRs shift their policies and practices such that those players who want military gameplay can do it under their flag. In other words, the threat is mostly that raiding culture spreading through a GCR can endanger potential UCR targets, not the GCR itself. Large raider organizations aren't so much of a threat to GCRs mostly because they simply do not exist on a scale which can threaten the GCRs. Raiders could theoretically plant sleepers in GCRs, but the risk/reward ratio is not in their favor. It is therefore best for raiders to instead respond to shifting ideology within feeders and form diplomatic ties with raider-leaning feeders (TWP, for example) as a way of increasing their power.

In short, while future developments could change things, current R/D dynamicsdo not directly threaten GCR sovereignty. The exception, of course, is the influence of well-meaning defenders with an agenda to purify GCRs of raider, or even imperialistic, tendencies. I think what Defenders do for UCRs is valuable, but if they're going to try and keep GCRs raider-free they should at least be open about it.

As for this specific scenario, I don't think it is related to R/D at all. Something is fishy, I don't know what. I think it would be wise to investigate Lazarus, but if the OP isn't willing to reveal who they are I'm not going to assume they have pure motives, regardless of what is happening in Lazarus.

[Nakari]

"As an online discussion about GCRs grows longer, the probability of a comparison of any defender to Unibot approaches 1."

Imagine: a raider guardian in a raider-leaning region is up for re-election. Just before the vote ends, six defenders on the same day apply for citizenship and immediately vote against that guardian. Outrageous, surely. I'm sure it would be reported on and criticized. And I'm sure people wouldn't say "Ah, it must be some ostracized raider who wrote this." Unibot would probably be accused of making the plan.

It's fairly ridiculous to accuse any defender with GCR interests of being the new Unibot, yet raiders with GCR interests are accepted as simply raiders with GCR interests. It appears that raiders have been trying to influence the votes of a region, but that's actually just because they're all individuals who just think the region is cool and want to innocently take part. It appears that a defender is attempting to prevent this influencing, but that's actually because defenderdom is GCR-hungry and Unibot never truly left.

Looking at that circumstantial evidence, there's certainly something strange in Lazarus. Doesn't take being a defender to notice that. It's not about alignment. But it is a shame that due to my alignment it would apparently be evil to care.

[The Church of Satan]

I don't know who Curious Observations is nor does it matter to me. He/she is not the first person to notice the treachery in Lazarus. It was an internal matter until this thread was posted. So whomever Curious Observations is isn't relevant to the real issue.

[Metal Mekhet]

You know what else is treachery? The banning of a True Native. Griffin Somerset. Though, I guess it was fine to throw that event under the rug for some bizarre reason.