Lily - hi again :O

[Shizensky]

>whether you feel so or not, tags factually have value as advertising at the very least

I'm actually curious about this one. Is it because of the featured regions which are also tags? That's the only scenario on my mind that fits and even then I'd be curious to know what the recruit:tag ratio is.

[RiderSyl]

If you're agreeing with what Souls said, then you're agreeing with that I said...

Oh. Then I guess I misunderstood you.

[Jakker]

>whether you feel so or not, tags factually have value as advertising at the very least

I'm actually curious about this one. Is it because of the featured regions which are also tags? That's the only scenario on my mind that fits and even then I'd be curious to know what the recruit:tag ratio is.

This is a bit off topic, but...

Embassies-closing with other regions (promotes the raid and org to those who had the embassy. oh man one of our allies were raided by X)
Embassies open with raiding region (leaves spot in region's history page of raid)
Tagging invader-creates more regions that indirectly is promoting raiding like on the region's page with invader being one of the more used tags https://www.nationstates.net/page=list_regions
WFE and Flag-promotes organization (most tags have raiding group, people involved, a forum link)

This is all advertisement. I recognize that many regions that are hit are small or don't have much going on, but it all has an impact. A tag on the featured region is just an added bonus.

[DJ Raid]

And even the flag looks like TI's..

So much in common!

[Consular]

>it's unnecessary

Isn't everything?

>whether you feel so or not, tags factually have value as advertising at the very least

Does it? Is there some correlation between tags and recruits?

>retagging is taking the fruits of another raider region for your own when there's plenty of other fish in the sea

Is it really? You both did the same amount of work. And what you're taking doesn't belong to them anyway.

[Falapatorius]

Surprisingly, detagging other raider regions' tags is also generally considered "bad raider conduct" and a bit of a "fuck you."

Wait, I thought detagging was a fenda thing. But hey, I can understand why raiders might want to detag (fendas can't be arsed to bother with that these days, what with claiming victories in the face of less than stellar win percentages). At any rate, it seems a solid strategy to let the raiders tag each other. The fallout from that is just a bonus (gravy).

[RiderSyl]

fendas can't be arsed to bother with that these days, what with claiming victories in the face of less than stellar win percentages

2015 called, they want their talking points back.

[Chingis]

what with claiming victories in the face of less than stellar win percentages)

I can confirm that fenda win rates are a lot more stellar than I personally would like them to be. We have had updates where they, in fact, have beaten us in the Lily hit to fenda win ratio, and even for those updates where we retain the upper hand, continue to defy what would appear to be human limits, with the self dubbed "fastbois" often moving in a length of time that falls below the time it takes my "moved" page to load.

[Zombogo]

If all the taggers want to take a weeks break from raiding we'll do some detags. But personally, chasing is much more fun than detags. The NS Janitors went on strike during the Predator thing, tags were going up faster than coming down.

[Lily Publications Office]

6/21 Major and Minor update
Strike when the enemy least expects it, or just when he is distracted by smaller flies. Two updates with the lucky number 27, as Lily continues moving onwards.

Major, 27 hits
Regions Tagged:
Canning Town
The New World Environmentalists
The Silent North
United States Of Jesus
Mlg Faze Clan 420
Outlands
Debden
Royal Oak
Test2 Region
Tinytopia
Roavin
Warzone pig
The Alliance of Seafaring Empires
Wings of the Abyss
Commonwealth of Boston
Regions of garbage criminals
Great Portland Street
The Daleinites
Knights of the Round Table Milwaukee
United Imperium
Fantasy

Regions Detagged:
medwedian alliance
ceramics
the river valley
sons of socialism
The Blue Box
Eyes of Death

Minor, 27 hits
Regions Tagged:
Holy Skypian Empire
The United Conglomerential Empire
Dictators Unite
East Acton
THE UNION OF COMMUNISTS STATES
The Backbone Of Fascism
Buckhurst Hill
Diverse Opinions
Paradise Farm
Pacific Heg
The Prairie Rockies
Alliance of Mentally Disabled Leaders
Testawwwww
Catz
DLONK
Sweet Hot North Andorra
North Petronas
Kindness from Eris
Nazi UK

Regions Detagged:
The Lost Pacific
Fox News Lineup
Myr
World Socialist Pact
Eastern European Commonwealth
Boge
Royal Victoria
Neo Fascist Alliance

[Nau States]

You have my support!
Course, I can't join because my Region is super binding.
Still. Do good! Raid! Go get 'em!

[Falapatorius]

I can confirm that fenda win rates are a lot more stellar than I personally would like them to be. We have had updates where they, in fact, have beaten us in the Lily hit to fenda win ratio, and even for those updates where we retain the upper hand, continue to defy what would appear to be human limits

That's just your org's triggering and jump issues. I'm sure you'll get better, but right now you're a better target than taking on TBH's taggers (always a challenge, but not unbeatable ).

[Lily Publications Office]

6/22 Major and Minor update
Reinforcements have arrived! It is no secret that warriors of Lily are few and far between, what they lack in numbers is currently substituted with dedication. Our achievements will only grow bigger as we continue gaining more members.
Join Lily, the most dedicated force on the field!
Major update has seen us visit 44 regions. After this exhausting venture, we've sent out a smaller reconnaissance group, visiting another 23 regions.

Warriors helping with our quest:
Liliarchy
Chingis
Maria Isaraider IV
Cyzon Galactic
Lily White

Major update, 44 hits.
Regions tagged:
Dogetastic
Down with Zacher
The cornerian empire
South North Milky Way
United Alliances
Onondaga
Sandhopper
The Freedom States
Eastern European Commonwealth
Asia Pacific
The Union of Religious Nations
United Federation of Independent Nations
Antarctic Treaty Orginization
Lutheran Church Missouri Synod
Bikini Bottom
Archipelago of Liberation
The Federation of United Nations
The alliance between nations of ideas
Zero Day
The Great Universe Puppet Storage
Holy Internet Empire
New Yeezy
Redbridge
Assyria
Aroha Mai
Deverry
The Lands Of Coffee
The World Peace Program
UNITED RAPTORS of WORTHYNESS
Volantis
DLONK
JohnMaddenJohn MaddenJohnMadden
Archipelago of Wild Endeavours
Snarky Parrot
Supreme Soviet of USSR
Commonwealth of Socialists
New Atlantis Near Nihilists
Paradise Found

Regions detagged:
CPN
The Threequeerateers
Earth 2
The Alliance of Nations
The Region of North Allied Zikavi
Amerish

Minor update, 23 hits.
Regions tagged:
South Central Pacific
Eyes of Death
Danklandia
Cavendar
The Gated Lands
Kindness from Eris
Balham
From Nationstates With Love
Corruptus in extremis
The south east pacific
Camden town
Antarctic liberation front
Wolf haven
Viridian isles
Union of flammington nations

Regions detagged:
Union Star
Tristique
Zephyrus
Actual Europe and Asia
The Vermillion Brotherhood
United great_nations
Tuva
The triumvirate of solomon

[Chingis]

44 hits omai

But what about our triggering and jump issues...

High fenda win rates couldn't possibly because defenders have gotten hella better. That's impossible.

[Benevolent Thomas]

I think tagging has literally no value.

It gives you SC recognition months/years ahead of others

[RiderSyl]

44 hits omai

But what about our triggering and jump issues...

Negated by Liliarchy being WraithFIN-fast.

[Chingis]

Yeah lili is great. Needs to be more assertive as a trigger though. However he is definitely the force that keeps this org going.

[Lily Publications Office]

6/23 Major and Minor update
In the face of our enormous task, warriors of Lily relentlessly continue their journey. Our message has been spread to 29 regions with relatively low resistance. The real fight began 12 hours later. Exhausted and low on numbers, we fought against overwhelming odds. We faced strong opposition in every region. Despite the effort involved, 9 regions fell into our control. Kudos to our enemies for their strong and well organized resistance.


Major, 29 hits.
Regions tagged:
Orkla
Nationalist State
Gaul
United Kingdom of Southern Archipelago
Interregional Puppet Storage
Supreme Amazing Majestic Nations
Trans Republic Of Furries And Communists
Devious Tyrant
Novum lunaris republicae
The Tagalog Empire
Mirrodin
West India Quay
The Empire of Shaxlondia
Atollon
The axis of evil and dictators
Ceramics
Mongolian Princes
Best Region of Nordic Solidarity BRNS
Gibberish Provinces Group

Regions dettaged:
Greater Japanese Empire
William oats and andy price
Nepots
Zentlanta
Lauregonia
WindClan
United Vape Nations
Easter Egg Hunters
The Solstice


Minor, 9 hits.
Regions tagged:
Celestial Socialist Dominion
The Counsil
Myr
Icecliff Imps
Empire of Free Nations
DOAB
The Allied Nations Of Maximus Terra
Christians unite

Regions detagged:
Bir Tawil and Hala ib and Their Coast

[Big Bad Badger]

Great work Liliarchy! So glad to see you thriving!!! Keep it up!

[Unibot III]

Real talk though, just about any type of purist is thrown out the window these days. The masses have finally discarded the absurdity of getting worked up over a bunch of ones and zeros and now the focus is on making update a fun time. The people who take it too seriously aren't anywhere near as influential as they once were, and to be totally honest, GP is miles better for it. Sure, we've traded toxicity and poorly masked condescension for edgy meme lords, but the former drove people away while the latter at least provides the occasional chuckle.

Nobody has time for the purist raider or the moralist defender anymore. It's not even that they disagree with it - they just don't care. Nobody wants to spend an hour with bible thumpers when they could be laughing about stupid shit with friends. The petty rivalries have been exposed as childish, and the new thing is congratulating one another in each other's Discord servers after a good night.

R/D is fun as shit right now because people are finally getting over themselves.

The people driven away weren't driven away by politics, they've been driven away by the lack of politics. Good players have abandoned in droves because there's really nothing worth sticking around for.

The 'purist raiders' and the 'moralist defenders' kept organizations strong and healthy - and Gameplay active - it's the "edgy meme lords" which have more or less overseen a slow painful death of Gameplay. There's no good rivalries anymore, no great organizations, no interesting politics. It's positively sophomoric and self-important to boot.

I didn't write all that I did about NationStates because I was some deranged idiot (not saying I'm not one), I wrote as much as I did because the game was fascinating back then - I had a lot to talk about. There's quite literally nothing to write about these days. Nobody really puts much of an effort into anything they're doing.

I expect Gameplay will eventually turn around, people won't be happy with the "leadership" of Gameplay forever. But it's going to take new blood full of new ideas, backbone, and real ambition. Some folks - tired of how things are going (or not going at all) - are going to have to say "fuck it" and start their organizations or get involved with the administrations of their regions.

[Shizensky]

The people driven away weren't driven away by politics, they've been driven away by the lack of politics. Good players have abandoned in droves because there's really nothing worth sticking around for.

The 'purist raiders' and the 'moralist defenders' kept organizations strong and healthy - and Gameplay active - it's the "edgy meme lords" which have more or less overseen a slow painful death of Gameplay. There's no good rivalries anymore, no great organizations, no interesting politics. It's positively sophomoric and self-important to boot.

I didn't write all that I did about NationStates because I was some deranged idiot (not saying I'm not one), I wrote as much as I did because the game was fascinating back then - I had a lot to talk about. There's quite literally nothing to write about these days. Nobody really puts much of an effort into anything they're doing.

I expect Gameplay will eventually turn around, people won't be happy with the "leadership" of Gameplay forever. But it's going to take new blood full of new ideas, backbone, and real ambition. Some folks - tired of how things are going (or not going at all) - are going to have to say "fuck it" and start their organizations or get involved with the administrations of their regions.

You play the expert a lot for someone who doesn't actually do anything.

People were driven away by a very toxic atmosphere that was justified under a misguided idea of politics. Defending is more active, dedicated, lively, and fun now than it has ever been. People aren't screaming at each other or fighting about petty shit like which flag to fly or which region to jump from, we actually like working with each other. We're gathering in the same chat now because we want to work together, not because we need to. You don't have to wheel and deal to get 40 endos for a liberation 12 hours after a raid when your updaters look forward to being in a room with one another.

Just because you wrote a lot doesn't mean you were right, or that things were going to stay the same. You wrote about an atmosphere that used to exist and has since faded away - it died because it wasn't sustainable. The fact that you think things are stagnant or not going anywhere shows how separated you are from what is actually happening. Defenders as a whole are a tight community. We're inclusive, we get along, and people look forward to working with one another. There are so many really good defenders now that it's working with someone average can seem like a chore. Just about anybody who's been here for a long time and is still active feels it. This is a higher place than we've ever been. You don't get to say it's not just because it doesn't fit into your closed view of things.

The super alliances are dead because we've found a way to work without the hierarchies or the rules. A lot of defenders will say we do what we do because of the communities, and for the first time I'd say we've finally built a whole community together for ourselves. Maybe you don't like the lack of seriousness, or you disagree that we're not trying to leverage popularity to try to switch a Feeder, but I promise you that a lot of people are ecstatic to see that type of Gameplay dead and buried.

[Witchcraft and Sorcery]

The people driven away weren't driven away by politics, they've been driven away by the lack of politics. Good players have abandoned in droves because there's really nothing worth sticking around for.

The 'purist raiders' and the 'moralist defenders' kept organizations strong and healthy - and Gameplay active - it's the "edgy meme lords" which have more or less overseen a slow painful death of Gameplay. There's no good rivalries anymore, no great organizations, no interesting politics. It's positively sophomoric and self-important to boot.

I didn't write all that I did about NationStates because I was some deranged idiot (not saying I'm not one), I wrote as much as I did because the game was fascinating back then - I had a lot to talk about. There's quite literally nothing to write about these days. Nobody really puts much of an effort into anything they're doing.

I expect Gameplay will eventually turn around, people won't be happy with the "leadership" of Gameplay forever. But it's going to take new blood full of new ideas, backbone, and real ambition. Some folks - tired of how things are going (or not going at all) - are going to have to say "fuck it" and start their organizations or get involved with the administrations of their regions.

Hi Unibot. I don't think I've ever had the chance to actually talk to you before but this is as good a time as any to do so because I'm not about this line of argument. At all. I've been playing this game for four and a half years, which isn't as long as a lot of people but long enough to know that playing NS because of "morals" is exactly what drives the kind of petty squabbling that made me and a lot of people i got to know want to quit the game for ages. I was a tactical officer in TITO for over a year and at least half of that was spent trying my heart out to find enjoyment in dead updates while silly and archaic rules kept me from actually progressing as a defender. Not to mention the constant spats with other command staff about policies. TITO is probably the best example of die-hard moralism and its utter failure to be maintained. The rest of the world has advanced while ridiculous policies that may have worked in 2011 are still being enforced in 2017. That's nothing against the people there; just a disagreement with its direction. Part of learning to enjoy this game is separating the people from the policies sometimes.

I left TITO because I was tired of all that. I desperately wanted to play the game and maintain my friendships in 10ki while separating myself from all the dumb shit that was frustrating me. So I handed in my resignation and became TGW's representative in 10ki. And guess what? It worked. The last four months have been the best four months I've ever had on this game because I learned to stop giving a shit about politics and start giving a shit about enjoying the game and the people I play it with. Moralism, purism, and petty politics are what drove a wedge between defenders especially for a lot of the last several years and made a lot of people quit the game. i don't know if you've noticed, but defenders are in the strongest position they have ever been because we decided to stop caring about "poltiics" and start actually playing the game.

Bottom line: The game is AWESOME right now. There's a real community, not just purists kicking dirt at each other. It's actually fun and rewarding to play and I hope that will continue.

Also to provide some actual data in response to Shiz's post, which I completely agree with, we pulled 24 updaters for a Thursday minor update a couple of weeks ago. Notice was given less than four hours before update. Yes. That actually happened.

[Chingis]

The 'purist raiders' and the 'moralist defenders' kept organizations strong and healthy - and Gameplay active - it's the "edgy meme lords" which have more or less overseen a slow painful death of Gameplay. There's no good rivalries anymore, no great organizations, no interesting politics. It's positively sophomoric and self-important to boot.

Yes, because nothing is/was healthier than Attero, as well as C & S (not 100% sure if DoS names can be mentioned).

As for the new raiders and defenders saying "fuck it" and starting their own orgs, you're right. New orgs appear like mushrooms now. Whats funny is of those, the ones that actually do anything are all the "unstrong" and "unhealthy" orgs with no die-hard, flamebaiting, OOC rivalry.

[Drop Your Pants]

Some folks - tired of how things are going (or not going at all) - are going to have to say "fuck it" and start their organizations or get involved with the administrations of their regions.

Spoken as someone who hasn't a clue what defending is anymore. I've never had so much fun in 10 years at update then I have recently. The banter, the singing (BT isn't a bad singer, Tim needs some work) and then we all meet in GP to poke each other with weird and funny reports.

Get out of your armchair Uni, you've become the Gates of defending. Lots of talk, no action.

Also, on topic, I'm surprised you aren't tagging Roavin every update

[Chingis]

Also, on topic, I'm surprised you aren't tagging Roavin every update

I don't choose the targets unfortunately

However its like the easter egg of the update and hopefully we fill up the WFE sooner rather than later.