The Grey Wardens: Warden-Lieutenant Ostrovskiy

[Wheath]

Glad to see Crimson Tree's home liberated, good job!
(The last sentence of the fifth paragraph is a little sketch)

[Nova Vinelandia]

Good read, though could do without the performative/fake wholesomeness from various raiders in the thread.

Just because you don't know how to be respectful and friendly to your opponents despite being on opposite sides of the game doesn't mean we can't be.

Anyways on that note, great report West.

[Mlakhavia]

Good read, though could do without the performative/fake wholesomeness from various raiders in the thread.

You know, some people do still play this game to have fun.

The underlying - and unpleasant - OOC tension in the R/D game won't go away if you presume the opposing side's sporting well-wishes are performative and fake all the time.

[Quebecshire]

Good read, though could do without the performative/fake wholesomeness from various raiders in the thread.

You know, some people do still play this game to have fun.

The underlying - and unpleasant - OOC tension in the R/D game won't go away if you presume the opposing side's sporting well-wishes are performative and fake all the time.

Just because you don't know how to be respectful and friendly to your opponents despite being on opposite sides of the game doesn't mean we can't be.

My most charitable interpretation here is that you completely lack self-awareness.

I do not have goldfish memory. You spent the entire occupation jeering and being completely "unpleasant" to the natives of Magna Aurea, from downright defamation to cheering on the RMB about how excited you are to destroy their community. So frankly, I couldn't care less that you make these disingenuous posts after you've lost.

[Angeloid Astraea]

We still had enough fun to be satisfied with the raid, Quebec. That's why we're not bitter, and why we can enjoy a super-well-written report from the other side.

[Improper Classifications]

Ideally, we could separate the writing of the narrative from the operation itself. Because it was a good narrative, but I’m not terribly interested in hearing the word Liberation used to signify you walked in the room after raiders left and took down the old posters.

[Quebecshire]

Ideally, we could separate the writing of the narrative from the operation itself. Because it was a good narrative, but I’m not terribly interested in hearing the word Liberation used to signify you walked in the room after raiders left and took down the old posters.

When raiders conventionally withdraw, they trickle out. They seldom wipe the region to 0 after major has started, and stay on BC ROs to keep it at 0 for a refound. That's not a withdrawal, that's an attempted hot refound, which they lost.

[Angeloid Astraea]

Ideally, we could separate the writing of the narrative from the operation itself. Because it was a good narrative, but I’m not terribly interested in hearing the word Liberation used to signify you walked in the room after raiders left and took down the old posters.

We were going for the most low-effort refound possible, so defenders did still have to come in and liberate it. It's not like we withdrew entirely and just left them to walk in the next update. If that did happen, I'd be nitpicky about the use of the term 'Liberate' too!

[Honeydewistania]

We still had enough fun to be satisfied with the raid, Quebec. That's why we're not bitter, and why we can enjoy a super-well-written report from the other side.

People who aren't "bitter" don't tend to unleash a tsunami of 'we didn't really lose because blah blah we emptied the region blah blah we weren't banking on this or that blah blah' style cope posts

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Honest and full throated respect for keeping up sieges that consistently and that long, even if their size wasn't doing much except running up the ban count.

Bit overblown in some regards to call "doing the bare minimum this time and not letting a hail mary refound sail unopposed through the goalposts like yesssss" a "liberation," so I will contest that =P but it doesn't take away from my respect for the dedication.

[Improper Classifications]

Whoops missed that part. Thanks for filling me in. And I did mean what I said about the narrative

[Mlakhavia]

You know, some people do still play this game to have fun.

The underlying - and unpleasant - OOC tension in the R/D game won't go away if you presume the opposing side's sporting well-wishes are performative and fake all the time.

Just because you don't know how to be respectful and friendly to your opponents despite being on opposite sides of the game doesn't mean we can't be.

My most charitable interpretation here is that you completely lack self-awareness.

I do not have goldfish memory. You spent the entire occupation jeering and being completely "unpleasant" to the natives of Magna Aurea, from downright defamation to cheering on the RMB about how excited you are to destroy their community. So frankly, I couldn't care less that you make these disingenuous posts after you've lost.

The invading forces play the bad guy. That's how it works (even if my own part in the operation was one on the side of PRAF and We're The Good Guys, Always ) and the whole "we'll destroy you" is always part of the bluster.

What I'm trying to get across is simple: a lot of the wounds behind the toxicity that's been part and parcel in R/D for a few years are healing. I've spent a lot of time getting worked up about it myself (to the detriment of others and those around me, which I regret), and now I actually have started to flex a substantial military command post I have enough on my plate, helping train up and enrich my own forces so they have fun, et cetera. PRAF is an even sturdier beast now than it was when I picked up the reins, and I'm very proud of our own development, as well as that of our allies in Sparkalia, who put in an amazing showing for the operation. I don't need the extra mental strain getting into shouting matches with the enemy (when I can just be proud of what my side did instead), so I'm happy to congratulate them on a good amount of effort, and hope they can extend the same goodwill to those of us in our camp.

The refound was a Hail Mary nobody expected to succeed, and it was only because of Yessssss that it was attempted. You intercepted it regardless with a prominent force, so credit where credit's due for that -- but let's not be unpleasant about it. The main objectives of the operation succeeded, and we all fell into the appropriate roles (especially during the telegram back-and-forth) and had fun. Isn't that what counts?

[Angeloid Astraea]

We still had enough fun to be satisfied with the raid, Quebec. That's why we're not bitter, and why we can enjoy a super-well-written report from the other side.

People who aren't "bitter" don't tend to unleash a tsunami of 'we didn't really lose because blah blah we emptied the region blah blah we weren't banking on this or that blah blah' style cope posts

Insist that raiders are upset about how this op ended, and when raiders tell you they're not and act respectful instead, say that they're coping and being fake. Very interesting! This must be why defenders are so good at PR. I prefer gameplay. =P

[Improper Classifications]

Raiding because raiding:
Defending because defending: also
Having fun: mega

[Ostrovskiy]

Oh are we committing a "neo"-moralism (they say neo but it's like the oldest form lmao how is neo-moralism any different from XKI-ism)

[Varanius]

Oh are we committing a "neo"-moralism (they say neo but it's like the oldest form lmao how is neo-moralism any different from XKI-ism)

Gangsterist pseudo-independent Francoist neo-moralism strikes again.

[Ostrovskiy]

Oh are we committing a "neo"-moralism (they say neo but it's like the oldest form lmao how is neo-moralism any different from XKI-ism)

Gangsterist pseudo-independent Francoist neo-moralism strikes again.

pls francoism is outdated we do frontierism now

[Concrete Slab]

Oh are we committing a "neo"-moralism (they say neo but it's like the oldest form lmao how is neo-moralism any different from XKI-ism)

Gangsterist pseudo-independent Francoist neo-moralism strikes again.

Me when buzzword

[Drew Durrnil]

Gangsterist pseudo-independent Francoist neo-moralism strikes again.

Me when buzzword

me when slab

[Numero Capitan]

Great news for raiders to learn that they can now be complimentary to defenders and still ruin Q's day

[United Villages Of Eisbutch]

Good read, though could do without the performative/fake wholesomeness from various raiders in the thread.

Ok we are nice and wholesome and plus it really is a amazing story to the point it should be a published factbook on the front of A.S.S. so let us enjoy it and give compliments to the writer

[Falafelandia]

Good read, though could do without the performative/fake wholesomeness from various raiders in the thread.

G-d forbid people are nice.

[HumanSanity]

IC: It was a pleasure to see this come to fruition. I want to especially commend Commander Westinor on her sterling leadership throughout this operation and thank every defender who contributed ideas, showed up at update, and stuck it out to the end. I continue to love our team, through wins (which this absolutely was), losses, and everything in between.

Bit overblown in some regards to call "doing the bare minimum this time and not letting a hail mary refound sail unopposed through the goalposts like yesssss" a "liberation,"

Strictly speaking, this was a liberation. We consider something a liberation if in the previous update the region was under raider control, and there was either intent or mechanics to continue to hold control, and then we retake control of the region.

Not to mention, it has every effect of a liberation. The region is going to be placed back under native control. Its entire history and RMB was preserved. If you had banned some natives on update #3 and we'd liberated on update #4 and welcomed the natives back, you'd still call it a liberation.

OOC:

Just because you don't know how to be respectful and friendly to your opponents despite being on opposite sides of the game doesn't mean we can't be.

I don't think anyone is being unfriendly to their opponents. OOCly, one can say "good op", but the GP forum is (effectively) an IC venue, and at some point "being nice" has become an IC political ploy of raiders. Q is right to call out the congratulations as performative to try to maintain that appearance of "uwu" for raiders, especially when its tied later on with claims about "toxicity in R/D" and is never separated into OOC and IC content.

OOCly, raiders got plenty of ground here too, and HS the player can honestly acknowledge that. ICly, I'm going to say you did nothing because we're about to welcome the natives back into their freed region. Not to mention I'm going to highlight the technical skill and persistence of our officers. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with maintaining that IC hostility in public - and, in fact, some of y'all are - and that's what makes you all fun opponents to play against!

We still had enough fun to be satisfied with the raid, Quebec. That's why we're not bitter, and why we can enjoy a super-well-written report from the other side.

Sure, you can be satisfied with your result - i.e. you accomplished some strategic objectives - and argue about it. "Fun" is irrelevant to accomplishment of strategic in-game objectives.

What I'm trying to get across is simple: a lot of the wounds behind the toxicity that's been part and parcel in R/D for a few years are healing. I've spent a lot of time getting worked up about it myself (to the detriment of others and those around me, which I regret), and now I actually have started to flex a substantial military command post I have enough on my plate, helping train up and enrich my own forces so they have fun, et cetera. PRAF is an even sturdier beast now than it was when I picked up the reins, and I'm very proud of our own development, as well as that of our allies in Sparkalia, who put in an amazing showing for the operation. I don't need the extra mental strain getting into shouting matches with the enemy (when I can just be proud of what my side did instead), so I'm happy to congratulate them on a good amount of effort, and hope they can extend the same goodwill to those of us in our camp.

I do not think that arguing over whether an operation was successful or not is in any way related to "toxicity" in R/D. Rather, it is a huge part of IC competitive narrative shaping in R/D. No one is forcing you personally to participate in it, but it absolutely should exist and is a part of GP. Saying "we're winning, we have the momentum" matters for recruitment, foreign affairs, internal morale, etc.

When raiders play that game, it's chill, and I respect it. I've said so in the past. Defenders are gonna play that game too, and it's silly to take the rug out from under them by saying "why can't we all be friends (which wasn't an option when we were gloating, but is what you're supposed to do now)".

You're pretty damn smart and a capable leader of your organization and you know what you're doing when you post. Making a desire not to just say "ggs" all the time into a form of "toxicity in R/D" is not only nonsense but also is a narrative you're choosing to deploy for your own strategic benefit - to literally tag your opponent (Q) with a claim of "toxicity", when all he's saying is "let's have the knock down drag out over who won and skip the part where we all say what we already know - which is that defenders (and raiders, tbh) did a damn good job".

but let's not be unpleasant about it. The main objectives of the operation succeeded, and we all fell into the appropriate roles (especially during the telegram back-and-forth) and had fun. Isn't that what counts?

No one has been unpleasant about it except you.

That we all had fun is great - and shows the game itself is a game worth playing. ICly, it's irrelevant - the goal is to win strategic objectives, and defenders will absolutely 100% argue that you all did not achieve all of your strategic objectives and we did, in fact, liberate the region.

[Mara Couina]

Victory feels good. The long battle now feels like dream, one I have finally awoken from. Thank you for everyone who showed up.

[Angeloid Astraea]

<big long post>

This comment made my head spin a few times. You're quoting people that had a problem with the fake-wholesome accusations Quebecshire made and then replying to those quotes like the real dispute was over whether the operation was successful or not. You're telling Sleet she was the only one being unpleasant, while trying to spin Quebecshire's original comment as "Hey guys, we all did a good job, let's skip the pleasantries". You're not only saying that us being nice is a manufactured narrative, but that when one of us complains about calling niceness a manufactured narrative... those complaints are ALSO a manufactured narrative.

It must be so stressful to play this game with your mindset.