by Unibot III » Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:19 pm
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Cerian Quilor » Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:28 pm
by Unibot III » Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:29 pm
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Cerian Quilor » Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:36 pm
by Unibot III » Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:46 pm
Cerian Quilor wrote:The thing I've seen since the end of the FRA and the general retreat of the UDL from major activity and the rise of TGW, the departure of TNI from world affairs, the general redudction of activity in Albion, the earlier end of UIAF, etc, etc, is an increasing multipolarity in the NS world, with the major blocs that have been defining foreign affairs for a long time... are... while not gone, they aren't the same. Everything is in pieces, more diffuse. Less established and cohesive. CAIN is one of the efforts to, for lack of a better word, to pick up the pieces of what used to be.
I mean, like it or not, think it pointless or not, seems like the TNI-FRA war was a good thing for the game.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Solorni » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:26 pm
by Unibot III » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:32 pm
Solorni wrote:This was pretty cool and I thank you for doing it, however I must object to how you did not label Osiris and in particular Balder as democratic. Balder is one of the longest uninterrupted democracy among the Game-Created Regions considering the various coups in The South Pacific, Lazarus and Osiris. We take great pride in continuing to grow our democracy. It is notable that regions like TSP which you have labelled as democratic have actually imitated Balder's system to take advantage of the benefits provided by our system. It is interesting to note that many of the things I believe in, such as 24 hour voting (url=http://w11.zetaboards.com/Balder/topic/30126919/]Our are elections too long?[/url]) have not been adopted because they are opposed by a majority of people in Balder.
Furthermore, Balder greatly values our relationship with our fellow democratic Game-Created Regions. In particular The North Pacific whom we share a treaty with in WALL and who have many members who have been influential in both regions such as Mcmasterdonia, r3n and Jamie. Our own system is modeled in large part on our allies Europeia's form of governance. So I object to you excluding Osiris and Balder as democratic.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Cerian Quilor » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:43 pm
Unibot III wrote:Cerian Quilor wrote:The thing I've seen since the end of the FRA and the general retreat of the UDL from major activity and the rise of TGW, the departure of TNI from world affairs, the general redudction of activity in Albion, the earlier end of UIAF, etc, etc, is an increasing multipolarity in the NS world, with the major blocs that have been defining foreign affairs for a long time... are... while not gone, they aren't the same. Everything is in pieces, more diffuse. Less established and cohesive. CAIN is one of the efforts to, for lack of a better word, to pick up the pieces of what used to be.
I mean, like it or not, think it pointless or not, seems like the TNI-FRA war was a good thing for the game.
I definitely agree with this. It reminds me a lot of what NS was like in 2008/9. Polarity is important to Gameplay, it's what drives conflict and activity: ADN, NPO, ACC, RLA, DEN, TBH, UDL, FRA, TNI, LKE etc. it's the blocs and spheres that are the engine of our activity. CAIN is more of an initiative than a bloc or sphere in the sense of powerful institutions.
Without that polarity, you have a disconnect in the political environment. Like a universe that is expanding, leaving more and more distance between planets. The Big Freeze, as it were.
I believe a multilateral alliance between TNP, TEP, TSP, Lazarus and TRR would serve their interests mutually. But let's not be coy here, it'd also make stuff a bit more interesting around here too.
by Cerian Quilor » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:44 pm
Unibot III wrote:Solorni wrote:This was pretty cool and I thank you for doing it, however I must object to how you did not label Osiris and in particular Balder as democratic. Balder is one of the longest uninterrupted democracy among the Game-Created Regions considering the various coups in The South Pacific, Lazarus and Osiris. We take great pride in continuing to grow our democracy. It is notable that regions like TSP which you have labelled as democratic have actually imitated Balder's system to take advantage of the benefits provided by our system. It is interesting to note that many of the things I believe in, such as 24 hour voting (url=http://w11.zetaboards.com/Balder/topic/30126919/]Our are elections too long?[/url]) have not been adopted because they are opposed by a majority of people in Balder.
Furthermore, Balder greatly values our relationship with our fellow democratic Game-Created Regions. In particular The North Pacific whom we share a treaty with in WALL and who have many members who have been influential in both regions such as Mcmasterdonia, r3n and Jamie. Our own system is modeled in large part on our allies Europeia's form of governance. So I object to you excluding Osiris and Balder as democratic.
I regard the signatories of the GCR Sovereignty Accords as distinct in their political foundations from the other GCRs. The term, 'democratic' is all I have to describe it. It's the sense that the state of the region is not a force in its own right, but a living extension of it. Nobody is going to cry about the Empire losing control of Osiris, you losing control of Balder, NPO losing control of the Pacific or the Guardians losing control of TWP, except not coincidentally, the Empire, imperialists, the NPO Senate and the Guardians.
This is not something we'll see eye to eye on. And thanks for saying it was cool...
by Roavin » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:48 pm
by Unibot III » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:55 pm
Cerian Quilor wrote:Unibot III wrote:
I regard the signatories of the GCR Sovereignty Accords as distinct in their political foundations from the other GCRs. The term, 'democratic' is all I have to describe it. It's the sense that the state of the region is not a force in its own right, but a living extension of it. Nobody is going to cry about the Empire losing control of Osiris, you losing control of Balder, NPO losing control of the Pacific or the Guardians losing control of TWP, except not coincidentally, the Empire, imperialists, the NPO Senate and the Guardians.
This is not something we'll see eye to eye on. And thanks for saying it was cool...
I think the citizenry of Balder, Osiris and even the NPO might be upset by them being overthrown, and they're the unit of involvement that matters,
Roavin wrote:Interesting! I had run for MoFA in TSP (though I've withdrawn my campaign now for various reasons), and this is actually one of the things I wanted to approach. Nice to see some further justifications and numbers for what I was thinking - thanks
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Solorni » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:59 pm
Unibot III wrote:Solorni wrote:This was pretty cool and I thank you for doing it, however I must object to how you did not label Osiris and in particular Balder as democratic. Balder is one of the longest uninterrupted democracy among the Game-Created Regions considering the various coups in The South Pacific, Lazarus and Osiris. We take great pride in continuing to grow our democracy. It is notable that regions like TSP which you have labelled as democratic have actually imitated Balder's system to take advantage of the benefits provided by our system. It is interesting to note that many of the things I believe in, such as 24 hour voting (url=http://w11.zetaboards.com/Balder/topic/30126919/]Our are elections too long?[/url]) have not been adopted because they are opposed by a majority of people in Balder.
Furthermore, Balder greatly values our relationship with our fellow democratic Game-Created Regions. In particular The North Pacific whom we share a treaty with in WALL and who have many members who have been influential in both regions such as Mcmasterdonia, r3n and Jamie. Our own system is modeled in large part on our allies Europeia's form of governance. So I object to you excluding Osiris and Balder as democratic.
I regard the signatories of the GCR Sovereignty Accords as distinct in their political foundations from the other GCRs. The term, 'democratic' is all I have to describe it. It's the sense that the state of the region is not a force in its own right, but a living extension of it. Nobody is going to cry about the Empire losing control of Osiris, you losing control of Balder, NPO losing control of the Pacific or the Guardians losing control of TWP, except not coincidentally, the Empire, imperialists, the NPO Senate and the Guardians.
This is not something we'll see eye to eye on. And thanks for saying it was cool...
by Unibot III » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:05 pm
Solorni wrote:Unibot III wrote:
I regard the signatories of the GCR Sovereignty Accords as distinct in their political foundations from the other GCRs. The term, 'democratic' is all I have to describe it. It's the sense that the state of the region is not a force in its own right, but a living extension of it. Nobody is going to cry about the Empire losing control of Osiris, you losing control of Balder, NPO losing control of the Pacific or the Guardians losing control of TWP, except not coincidentally, the Empire, imperialists, the NPO Senate and the Guardians.
This is not something we'll see eye to eye on. And thanks for saying it was cool...
I do not hold control in Balder, as I've stated before the power lies within the elected members of government. As well, any coup in Balder would be seen as rather upsetting by the citizenry in Balder, our allies, our friends and our admirers. Let's not forget that in the last popularity poll between GCR delegates, I finished as the most popular GCR delegate. While such popularity contests are silly, it does point to the fact that the monarchy in Balder is well liked by a large swath of NationState members. Furthermore, as you noted Balder has many allies and alliances in addition to a swath of informal friendships. So by that logic, the destabilization of Balder would be more upsetting than the destabilization of a region with less support and alliances.
In terms of natural outreach, I have worked especially hard to work with all interested parties in Balder and to promote harmony as well as growth. This has led to disagreements with other members, particularly my proposal to create a legislative body that included WA votes.
So I think that your opinion is biased by your personal feelings for these regions, in particular Balder.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Tinhampton » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:13 pm
Unibot III wrote:Solorni wrote:I do not hold control in Balder, as I've stated before the power lies within the elected members of government. As well, any coup in Balder would be seen as rather upsetting by the citizenry in Balder, our allies, our friends and our admirers. Let's not forget that in the last popularity poll between GCR delegates, I finished as the most popular GCR delegate. While such popularity contests are silly, it does point to the fact that the monarchy in Balder is well liked by a large swath of NationState members. Furthermore, as you noted Balder has many allies and alliances in addition to a swath of informal friendships. So by that logic, the destabilization of Balder would be more upsetting than the destabilization of a region with less support and alliances.
In terms of natural outreach, I have worked especially hard to work with all interested parties in Balder and to promote harmony as well as growth. This has led to disagreements with other members, particularly my proposal to create a legislative body that included WA votes.
So I think that your opinion is biased by your personal feelings for these regions, in particular Balder.
I am unable to comment specifically about the constitutional framework of Balder since it, not coincidentally, it is the only GCR that keeps its laws and constitution a secret from its own residents.
And I think that's all the commentary I need to make on the level of democracy in Balder...
by Drop Your Pants » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:17 pm
Solorni wrote:I do not hold control in Balder, as I've stated before the power lies within the elected members of government.
by Solorni » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:26 pm
Unibot III wrote:Solorni wrote:I do not hold control in Balder, as I've stated before the power lies within the elected members of government. As well, any coup in Balder would be seen as rather upsetting by the citizenry in Balder, our allies, our friends and our admirers. Let's not forget that in the last popularity poll between GCR delegates, I finished as the most popular GCR delegate. While such popularity contests are silly, it does point to the fact that the monarchy in Balder is well liked by a large swath of NationState members. Furthermore, as you noted Balder has many allies and alliances in addition to a swath of informal friendships. So by that logic, the destabilization of Balder would be more upsetting than the destabilization of a region with less support and alliances.
In terms of natural outreach, I have worked especially hard to work with all interested parties in Balder and to promote harmony as well as growth. This has led to disagreements with other members, particularly my proposal to create a legislative body that included WA votes.
So I think that your opinion is biased by your personal feelings for these regions, in particular Balder.
I am unable to comment specifically about the constitutional framework of Balder since, not coincidentally, it is the only GCR that keeps its laws and constitution a secret from its own residents.
And I think that's all the commentary I need to make on the level of democracy in Balder...
by Unibot III » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:38 pm
Solorni wrote:Unibot III wrote:
I am unable to comment specifically about the constitutional framework of Balder since, not coincidentally, it is the only GCR that keeps its laws and constitution a secret from its own residents.
And I think that's all the commentary I need to make on the level of democracy in Balder...
You should have said something about that. Quite awhile ago I made the forum that housed the laws public, but did not realize that the specific subforums the laws were in were not public (I've essentially assumed everyone could see them for awhile now). They have never been secret, although they were not always available to non-registered users to view. Here are the laws: Balder Laws
Balder also has zero laws on classified information, technically everything in the region is unclassified. Which would mean that we are one of the most free regions as well when it comes to information. Very few GCRs are dedicated to this level of transparency.
Unibot III wrote:Alvalero wrote:
Just to clarify this point. Citizens are elected as MP's to the Storting yes, however we still require a citizens vote in order for new basic laws to be introduced and for current basic laws to be amended.
So the purpose of the elected legislature is to draft and introduce legislation to be voted on, then? And what about constitutional amendments? Genuinely curious, Balder's laws aren't typically available to the public.
Solorni wrote:I will explain it when I get home if no one does first. But Balder does not have a constitution!! It has a set of Basic Laws that function in a similar manner though.
Unibot III wrote:
I had to ask the Speaker in Balder for their list of assemblymen, otherwise yes it's freely available.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Solorni » Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:18 pm
by Funkadelia » Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:40 pm
by Unibot III » Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:52 pm
Solorni wrote:In any case, I'm not sure what that has to do with us not being democratic.
Funkadelia wrote:I agree with the assessment made earlier in the thread that things are becoming more diffuse and less polarized, which I find interesting. I think not the least of the causes is the fact that defenders have essentially ceased to exist within the past 6-8 months or so, which has left a big gap with not much going on. I find a lot of regions to be in their own little word. I don't find that to be a positive or a negative.
I would reply with more, but I hurt my middle finger earlier today which is making it much more difficult to type. In short, it's an interesting read.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Solorni » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:26 pm
Modern advocates of the open society suggest that society would keep no secrets from itself in the public sense, as all are trusted with the knowledge of all. Political freedoms and human rights are claimed to be the foundation of an open society.
by Ever-Wandering Souls » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:22 pm
The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258
Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative
by Cerian Quilor » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:30 pm
by Consular » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:52 pm
by Ikania » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:00 pm
Unibot III wrote:you losing control of Balder
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