NationStates

King HEM wrote:

RiderSyl wrote:
Yup. That's an accurate summation of our exchange. Europeia definitely didn't compare anyone to Goebbels, and I have no idea where Unibot got that from. Just.. reading the thread would've shown that that didn't happen. Maybe he skimmed it or something. Idk.

Also, I don't want to come off as ignoring your thoughtful reply to me, but I don't think there's a ton to say. You're convinced that the region is no longer fascist, and are presenting that as fact based on the evidence you've seen. I've skimmed through the evidence, and I'm not convinced. I appreciate the fact that you are putting yourself in the awkward position of defending people you don't necessarily like because you want to help them remove a particularly dark stain from their record, but given the history — and given the even looooooonnnggger history in this game of people in general lying + covering up odious undersides when it serves them — I think you are more certain than you should be.

In terms of what it would take to convince me (personally, again, still not speaking for Europeia) — I don't know. I will think about it. But frankly, I also think you and others should also think about whether in certain instances, when offenses just reach a critical mass, there is any coming back from that as a region. I would again urge those in CCD who are truly anti-fascist to consider hitting reset, and setting off into a new community. I think that would be best.

I appreciate your response. Honestly, you've hit the nail on the head with a lot of this, so there's not really anything to disagree with, just three points that you made I want to respond to.

I don't like being in this awkward position, but... it's just that when I see a legitimate redemption story going on, the idea of that redemption being denied... it doesn't sit well with me, to say the least. I've personally spoken to those I consider close friends on NS and asked their opinions of my position on CCD, because I had more than one moment where I finished typing a comment defending CCD and thought to myself "What the hell am I doing?". The fact I'm still sticking to my guns is through a mixture of evidence, my personal experience in spying on and watchdogging CCD, and the opinions of those around me on what I'm doing. I have no political motive here. If someone from TNP or Euro or anywhere, really, shows me a log of CCDers in a backchannel being fash that's from after mid-2020, then I'm going to admit I was fooled and gladly be done with this.

As for what you're urging - it was already attempted by former members of CCD - it was called the AWF - but it fell apart due to toxicity, drama, and some illegal+immoral activities. I know all this because I attempted to support the AWF for a while before it crashed and burned. Some former AWF members returned to the CCD and are currently aiding in its denazification. At least one of them were among those that helped provide evidence of their anti-fascism when I asked for it. Anyway, thanks to how awful the first attempt at setting off into a new community went, everyone's very hesitant to try again. There's also the fact that a successful press of the reset button would require no Jocospor, Shrew, or Depackya in high places of power, and going 3/3 in that is as likely as TNP electing me as its delegate next election.

Lastly, whether offenses reach a critical mass and there's no coming back from it? I've more than thought about that concept, I've gone against regions and individuals on the idea that they've crossed that line. I believe that OOC fascism is a line that can be crossed back from, depending on how deeply involved the person/group became, if a serious effort is made to redeem oneself, and the results are stark in contrast to when the line was crossed. It's my personal belief that rejecting those persons/groups that fit that criteria does more harm to the antifascist cause than good, because it shoves them right back towards the cliff they dove off of in the first place.

King HEM wrote:Your post is so obviously bad-faith that I'm not even sure how to tackle it. There are plenty of people who don't see eye-to-eye with Europeia on this particular issue, and many others who don't see eye-to-eye with us on other issues. That's okay. That's a part of gameplay. But Europeia has been a leader in the anti-fascism movement for a long time. We are proud of our region, and our accomplishments in this regard. Sorry there were instances we didn't join in your missions — I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that they were well-considered efforts that aided the cause of anti-fascism and applaud you for them — that's certainly more than you gave me here.

Listen HEM, I don’t buy it for a goddamn second. When Europeia takes up a social cause, it’s always in bad faith! It’s just exceptionally gross in the case of Anti-Fascism and continues to be gross. I’m pretty sure I invited Europeia to every, or almost every liberation, against a Nazi occupation from 2011 to 2014 — at some point I just kept asking because I enjoyed making your MoFA saying no. I don’t have access to my PM box to show you, for obvious reasons.

While defenders were challenged with taking on a growing new Nazi Invader threat in 2013 (Captain Woodhouse’s group or whatever his name was), Europeia was dicking around in Nazi Europe with NPO accomplishing sweet nothing. The anti-fascism crusades make no sense as a genuine act of anti-fascism, but the pattern of behaviour exhibited makes a great deal of sense if you assume that the main point of it all is to find ways to justify invasions and tar the reputations of defenders. That’s always been the plan and it’s still the same plan: justify new invasions and fash-bash defenders for defending innocent regions.

None (?) of the regions you raided were fascist. This is just the ultimate extension of an old game: to justify as many invasions as possible under the anti-fascist label as Euro can manage. Queue raiding just escalates things further in that you now don’t need to prove that the regions you’re hitting are fascist to hit them and call it anti-fascist, which was the problem that CAIN struggled to overcome a few years ago.

Unibot III wrote:I’m pretty sure I invited Europeia to every, or almost every liberation, against a Nazi occupation from 2011 to 2014 — at some point I just kept asking because I enjoyed making your MoFA saying no. I don’t have access to my PM box to show you, for obvious reasons.

I have all my PMs and don't recall any of these invitations, let alone a series of them. Maybe you were talking to someone else but I was President twice, Grand Admiral several times, and likely Minister of Foreign Affairs a couple times in that time period. With respect (genuinely), I'm tempted to call bullshit on this one.

I haven't bothered reading back but I can unequivocally say that I agree with everything HEM has said and Unibot is wrong

Numero Capitan wrote:I haven't bothered reading back but I can unequivocally say that I agree with everything HEM has said and Unibot is wrong

This is going in my signature

Numero Capitan wrote:I haven't bothered reading back but I can unequivocally say that I agree with everything HEM has said and Unibot is wrong

He's right about CAIN though. They did this very thing and most people in GP cringed pretty hard about it. Funny how some regions have now changed their mind about it.

The Church of Satan wrote:

Numero Capitan wrote:I haven't bothered reading back but I can unequivocally say that I agree with everything HEM has said and Unibot is wrong

He's right about CAIN though. They did this very thing and most people in GP cringed pretty hard about it. Funny how some regions have now changed their mind about it.

I think CAIN — as imperfect as it was, and explosive its end — was an overall force for good in the game. But there's a big difference between saying, "CAIN wasn't a helpful organization" (arguable opinion) and "when Europeia takes up a social cause, it’s always in bad faith" (bombastic trolling/flaming).

Numero Capitan wrote:I haven't bothered reading back but I can unequivocally say that I agree with everything HEM has said and Unibot is wrong

Made my day heh.

Over the last couple of weeks, we have engaged with NSUK through the Conference of Westminster, a series of discussions surrounding World Assembly affairs in both regions. Each region sent its own delegation of representatives to participate in the talks, with Europeia being represented by President Pichtonia, Vice President Kuramia, Minister of World Assembly Affairs Seva, Minister of Foreign Affairs Monkey, and World Assembly adviser Maowi. We were happy to discuss this topic with our counterparts from NSUK: Prime Minister Josephine Stewart, Deputy Prime Minister Angus Baker-Mountbatten, Foreign Secretary Akillian Talleyrand, and World Assembly Affairs Minister Mayim Emanu-El-Bauheim.

Both regions expressed a desire for furthering the World Assembly Affairs department within our regions, as well as looking for future opportunities to cooperate and work together. We were happy to share and impart some of our own experiences in developing and strengthening our own Ministry of World Assembly Affairs, such as the Pokémon program to incentivize participation, as well as resources for creating IFV (information for voters) statements. We expressed that we would be happy to suggest and aid any future initiatives sponsored by the NSUK government to incorporate and strengthen their World Assembly Affairs ministry.

Europeia is open to helping and cooperating with any of our allies in the World Assembly, and we were glad to have this opportunity to attend these discussions with NSUK. We wish them the best of luck in furthering their World Assembly initiatives, and look to future cooperation with their region.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact Information (Discord): wordisthebird#9813

(Europeia, February 27, 2021) - Europeia has elected Senate Speaker Calvin Coolidge as president of Europeia in a runoff election concluding Sunday, February 21. The campaign centered on foreign affairs and the role of the Europeian Republican Navy (ERN), with now-President Coolidge running strongly on "continuing the good work that our naval leadership has done so far," increasing naval transparency, and using the ERN as a tool to promote the doctrine of Independence.

After the polls closed in the initial election, no ticket had garnered a majority of all votes, and a runoff was held. The ticket of Forilian/Monkey was eliminated for the runoff; the ticket of Calvin Coolidge/Istillian then faced off against the incumbent ticket of Pichtonia/Kuramia, upsetting the incumbents by 52.9% to 47.1%.

As the president cannot serve in the Senate simultaneously, Calvin Coolidge's seat was made vacant upon the victory, triggering a by-election for the seat and a new election for speakership in the Senate. The Senate elected new Speaker UPC, who immediately set out to begin confirmation votes on the new president's cabinet.

In a statement, Calvin Coolidge commented, "I am humbled that the majority of the region has put its faith in myself and Istillian to lead it for the next 70 days." Noting that he defeated an incumbent ticket running for re-election, he added, "I want to thank Pichtonia and Kuramia for their service over the past term, we all know they are great public servants who have always performed admirably in their roles and would have done so again ..."

President Calvin Coolidge nominated the following individuals to the cabinet:
Monkey, Minister of Foreign Affairs;
Peeps, Grand Admiral;
GrandfatherClock, Minister of Interior;
McEntire, Minister of Communications;
Maowi, Minister of World Assembly Affairs;
Xecrio, Minister of Radio;
Rotasu, Minister of Culture; and
Lloenflys, Attorney General.

The nominees were confirmed by the Senate on February 24, with no senator voting against a nominee.

"Calvin Elected in Electoral Nail-biter"
I have some deja-vu going on right now

Congrats to Calvin and Isti and to the new Cabinet!

Congratz to Calvin!

It is rather weird to see Pichto go.

Congratulations to President Calvin!

Congratulations to President Calvin and their cabinet.

Congratulations to the new President and the new Cabinet! Wishing Pichto and Kuramia the best

From the desk of the President of Europeia

Re: Balder’s Statement on Osiris

Recently, Balder has issued a public statement regarding Osiris’ mishandling of diplomatic discussions between the two parties. Their statement highlights a consistent pattern of miscommunication and disrespect towards Balder when it came to these diplomatic negotiations.

Osiris has continued to perpetuate falsehoods about Balder, saying that it “is at the ‘behest of’, or ‘subjugated’ by the LKE” and “The idea that Balder is ‘not healthy’, ‘deteriorating’, a ‘trophy’”. Osiris’ unwillingness to retract these fictitious claims shows a clear lack of regard for Balder and an open hostility towards our allies, including the LKE. It is puzzling why Osiris approached Balder and proposed renewing relations if they were not prepared to take back these inaccurate and untrue claims.

Throughout the process, Osiris has continued to stonewall and mislead Balder. This all culminated in a PNG vote on the King of Balder, NES, without any advance notice. We are disappointed at the way Osiris has chosen to handle these negotiations, and it is truly unfortunate that they have opted to continue advancing these false claims about our allies.

We would like to urge everyone to read the statement from the Crown for a more detailed account of the events that lead to this point. We fully agree with the actions and sentiments expressed by Balder, and will continue to support them in any way possible.

Europeian Embassy wrote:From the desk of the President of Europeia

Re: Balder’s Statement on Osiris

Recently, Balder has issued a public statement regarding Osiris’ mishandling of diplomatic discussions between the two parties. Their statement highlights a consistent pattern of miscommunication and disrespect towards Balder when it came to these diplomatic negotiations.

Osiris has continued to perpetuate falsehoods about Balder, saying that it “is at the ‘behest of’, or ‘subjugated’ by the LKE” and “The idea that Balder is ‘not healthy’, ‘deteriorating’, a ‘trophy’”. Osiris’ unwillingness to retract these fictitious claims shows a clear lack of regard for Balder and an open hostility towards our allies, including the LKE. It is puzzling why Osiris approached Balder and proposed renewing relations if they were not prepared to take back these inaccurate and untrue claims.

Throughout the process, Osiris has continued to stonewall and mislead Balder, as well as delay progress on a peaceful resolution. This all culminated in a PNG vote on the King of Balder, NES, without any advance notice. We are disappointed at the way Osiris has chosen to handle these negotiations, and it is truly unfortunate that they have opted to continue advancing these false claims about our allies.

We would like to urge everyone to read the statement from the Crown for a more detailed account of the events that lead to this point. We fully agree with the actions and sentiments expressed by Balder, and will continue to support them in any way possible.

Given there's no mention of The Black Hawks in this statement, how will FA continue between Europeia and TBH?

Aside from the apparent opportunism, the worst thing about the Europeian statement is the part where they tell everyone to go read all of Balder's. C'mon, man, that's a lot of time reading that which nobody will be getting back. Sad!

Quebecshire wrote:Aside from the apparent opportunism, the worst thing about the Europeian statement is the part where they tell everyone to go read all of Balder's. C'mon, man, that's a lot of time reading that which nobody will be getting back. Sad!

I understand the aversion to reading in this game has reached almost epidemic levels, but...you're a writer...for the NS Today...

King HEM wrote:I understand the aversion to reading in this game has reached almost epidemic levels, but...you're a writer...for the NS Today...

Yes, I am. Reading is perfectly fine if the full thing has productive content. Balder's statement was overtly long and only had concise and relevant content at the end, in the portion highlighted by Altmoras.

The Python wrote:

Europeian Embassy wrote:From the desk of the President of Europeia

Re: Balder’s Statement on Osiris

Recently, Balder has issued a public statement regarding Osiris’ mishandling of diplomatic discussions between the two parties. Their statement highlights a consistent pattern of miscommunication and disrespect towards Balder when it came to these diplomatic negotiations.

Osiris has continued to perpetuate falsehoods about Balder, saying that it “is at the ‘behest of’, or ‘subjugated’ by the LKE” and “The idea that Balder is ‘not healthy’, ‘deteriorating’, a ‘trophy’”. Osiris’ unwillingness to retract these fictitious claims shows a clear lack of regard for Balder and an open hostility towards our allies, including the LKE. It is puzzling why Osiris approached Balder and proposed renewing relations if they were not prepared to take back these inaccurate and untrue claims.

Throughout the process, Osiris has continued to stonewall and mislead Balder, as well as delay progress on a peaceful resolution. This all culminated in a PNG vote on the King of Balder, NES, without any advance notice. We are disappointed at the way Osiris has chosen to handle these negotiations, and it is truly unfortunate that they have opted to continue advancing these false claims about our allies.

We would like to urge everyone to read the statement from the Crown for a more detailed account of the events that lead to this point. We fully agree with the actions and sentiments expressed by Balder, and will continue to support them in any way possible.

Given there's no mention of The Black Hawks in this statement, how will FA continue between Europeia and TBH?

Our statement does not pertain to The Black Hawks. There is no further action being taken by Europeia towards either Osiris or TBH at this time.

Calvin Coolidge wrote:

The Python wrote:Given there's no mention of The Black Hawks in this statement, how will FA continue between Europeia and TBH?

Our statement does not pertain to The Black Hawks. There is no further action being taken by Europeia towards either Osiris or TBH at this time.

So would it be accurate to summarize Europeia's response to this matter as the diplomatic version of a retweet?

On behalf of the government of Balder I would like to express our thanks to Europeia for their support in this matter.

Europeian Embassy wrote:-snip-

tldr; euro continues to sink its own ship by continuously choosing the wrong diplomatic paths but go off i guess

please tell me how the Balder-LKE imperialist sphere has shown a single sign of competence in the past year. i’m sympathetic to their cause obviously, but my reverence is certainly waning!

Frenchy II wrote:

Europeian Embassy wrote:-snip-

tldr; euro continues to sink its own ship by continuously choosing the wrong diplomatic paths but go off i guess

please tell me how the Balder-LKE imperialist sphere has shown a single sign of competence in the past year. i’m sympathetic to their cause obviously, but my reverence is certainly waning!

If this is truly what you believe, then your stance must be that nobody mustn't ever say a negative word about Osiris under any circumstances.

Balder has presented a comprehensive case against Osiris, and no reply or explanation has been forthcoming except people promoting wild conspiracy theories involving Founderless and Francoism (??). Again, I am open to a rebuttal of the facts as presented by Balder (that if true, would be damning), but the responses from Osiris and friends so far has basically been "cover your eyes and ears, nothing to see here!"

Frenchy II wrote:

Europeian Embassy wrote:-snip-

tldr; euro continues to sink its own ship by continuously choosing the wrong diplomatic paths but go off i guess

please tell me how the Balder-LKE imperialist sphere has shown a single sign of competence in the past year. i’m sympathetic to their cause obviously, but my reverence is certainly waning!

That’s a bit ridiculous. Balder has laid out a clear case that nobody had actually been able to refute beyond certain minor points against Osiris and Europeia makes a reasonable, clear headed diplomatic statement in support of Balder. I fail to see how that’s Euro “continuously choosing the wrong diplomatic paths”.