Europeian Embassy - In Solidarity

[RiderSyl]

In any case, I suspect that the ban is not necessarily the core topic of this thread.

With the LKE claiming that the delegate banned was part of the subversion supported by Malice, and the claim of LKE being subverted by Malice being included in the European statement here... It's still related.

The fact Malice didn't subvert the LKE remains.

[Apatosaurus II]

The foreign interests Onder refers to are BoM's leadership.

I will probably face consequences for this in the LKE, but I don't see any evidence provided for BoMs involvement. What I see is a theory for which there is no evidence seen. What proof is there that this was foreign-orchestrated? It could as well be that the concerned individual*s acted on their own.

54 minutes ago: Dominion of Acielon was removed from the regional ban list of The Land of Kings and Emperors by The Divine Royal Family of The House of Habsburg.
55 minutes ago: Dominion of Acielon lost the position of The Land of Kings and Emperors WA Delegate to The Emperor Felix of Nulkia.
77 minutes ago: Dominion of Acielon's influence in The Rejected Realms rose from "Zero" to "Unproven".
77 minutes ago: Dominion of Acielon was ranked in the Top 10% of the world for Highest Average Incomes.
91 minutes ago: Dominion of Acielon relocated from The Land of Kings and Emperors to The Rejected Realms.
91 minutes ago: Dominion of Acielon was ejected and banned from The Land of Kings and Emperors by The Divine Royal Family of The House of Habsburg.

The fuck lmao

[Dawn Denac]

I will probably face consequences for this in the LKE, but I don't see any evidence provided for BoMs involvement. What I see is a theory for which there is no evidence seen. What proof is there that this was foreign-orchestrated? It could as well be that the concerned individual*s acted on their own.

54 minutes ago: Dominion of Acielon was removed from the regional ban list of The Land of Kings and Emperors by The Divine Royal Family of The House of Habsburg.
55 minutes ago: Dominion of Acielon lost the position of The Land of Kings and Emperors WA Delegate to The Emperor Felix of Nulkia.
77 minutes ago: Dominion of Acielon's influence in The Rejected Realms rose from "Zero" to "Unproven".
77 minutes ago: Dominion of Acielon was ranked in the Top 10% of the world for Highest Average Incomes.
91 minutes ago: Dominion of Acielon relocated from The Land of Kings and Emperors to The Rejected Realms.
91 minutes ago: Dominion of Acielon was ejected and banned from The Land of Kings and Emperors by The Divine Royal Family of The House of Habsburg.

The fuck lmao

They really did just take their delegate to the back of the shed and told them to look at some flowers.

Also hey Apato.

[RiderSyl]

I will probably face consequences for this in the LKE, but I don't see any evidence provided for BoMs involvement. What I see is a theory for which there is no evidence seen. What proof is there that this was foreign-orchestrated? It could as well be that the concerned individual*s acted on their own.

54 minutes ago: Dominion of Acielon was removed from the regional ban list of The Land of Kings and Emperors by The Divine Royal Family of The House of Habsburg.
55 minutes ago: Dominion of Acielon lost the position of The Land of Kings and Emperors WA Delegate to The Emperor Felix of Nulkia.
77 minutes ago: Dominion of Acielon's influence in The Rejected Realms rose from "Zero" to "Unproven".
77 minutes ago: Dominion of Acielon was ranked in the Top 10% of the world for Highest Average Incomes.
91 minutes ago: Dominion of Acielon relocated from The Land of Kings and Emperors to The Rejected Realms.
91 minutes ago: Dominion of Acielon was ejected and banned from The Land of Kings and Emperors by The Divine Royal Family of The House of Habsburg.

The fuck lmao

and now he's part of the Malice-backed subversion attempt too, apparently

We're the new NPO - everyone is our plant

[Apatosaurus II]

The fuck lmao

and now he's part of the Malice-backed subversion attempt too, apparently

We're the new NPO - everyone is our plant

inb4 Nulkia is the real BoM plant

[Dawn Denac]

and now he's part of the Malice-backed subversion attempt too, apparently

We're the new NPO - everyone is our plant

inb4 Nulkia is the real BoM plant

If Nulkia gets banned now I'm going to flip a table.

[RiderSyl]

and now he's part of the Malice-backed subversion attempt too, apparently

We're the new NPO - everyone is our plant

inb4 Nulkia is the real BoM plant

the real BoM plant is Madjack
MJ's going to hand his nation back to Koth and TNP will fly a Malice flag
actual 5D chess moves

[Apatosaurus II]

inb4 Nulkia is the real BoM plant

the real BoM plant is Madjack
MJ's going to hand his nation back to Koth and TNP will fly a Malice flag
actual 5D chess moves

Obviously, both MJ and Nulkia are BoM plants.

Actually, everyone who isn't Onder or NES are BoM plants.

[Dominion of Acielon]

The Dominion of Acielon is not a bystander who happened to express doubts, but one of the four individuals (with Gankands, Valfor, Rose Weisberg-Talleyrand) who resigned in coordination from the Imperial Army. Their contributions will be similarly coordinated and are not an indicator of anything.

As it is inappropriate for them to continue to represent the region as WA Delegate under the circumstances, The Dominion of Acielon is removed as Delegate. As to their long-term status more generally, that is a matter that would be determined in due course under the applicable constitutional process.

And I explained the reasoning for my resignation from the Imperial Army quite in detail, I believe. And I did resign as Minister after it had been proven that there was a misunderstanding, also publically admitted that my actions were commited under false assumptions. As I couldn't gain information from the Emperor or you as to where proof for your accusations of conspiracy were, I offered my resignation from all political offices, including that of WA Delegate. The Emperor asked me to stay Delegate till we have smoothly transitioned to a new one. I would've immediatly resigned from the WA would you or the Emperor have told me so. In addition may I inquire which LKE law I'm exactly in violation with? I checked and there doesn't seem to be one on stating your opinion and asking questions in the NS-Forums.
Still I can say that I thank both those who elected me to the position of Delegate and also to the nations which endorsed me during my tenure.

[Tinhampton]

the real BoM plant is Madjack
MJ's going to hand his nation back to Koth and TNP will fly a Malice flag
actual 5D chess moves

Obviously, both MJ and Nulkia are BoM plants.

Actually, everyone who isn't Onder or NES are BoM plants.

...so you're a BoM plant?

[The Universe World]

Obviously, both MJ and Nulkia are BoM plants.

Actually, everyone who isn't Onder or NES are BoM plants.

...so you're a BoM plant?

The real BoM plants were the friends we made along the way .

[RiderSyl]

the real BoM plant is Madjack
MJ's going to hand his nation back to Koth and TNP will fly a Malice flag
actual 5D chess moves

Obviously, both MJ and Nulkia are BoM plants.

Actually, everyone who isn't Onder or NES are BoM plants.

NES is a UDL plant who was never activated so he just wonders the halls of Balder
Onder is a sentient encyclopedia with access to the internet

[Dawn Denac]

The Dominion of Acielon is not a bystander who happened to express doubts, but one of the four individuals (with Gankands, Valfor, Rose Weisberg-Talleyrand) who resigned in coordination from the Imperial Army. Their contributions will be similarly coordinated and are not an indicator of anything.

As it is inappropriate for them to continue to represent the region as WA Delegate under the circumstances, The Dominion of Acielon is removed as Delegate. As to their long-term status more generally, that is a matter that would be determined in due course under the applicable constitutional process.

And I explained the reasoning for my resignation from the Imperial Army quite in detail, I believe. And I did resign as Minister after it had been proven that there was a misunderstanding, also publically admitted that my actions were commited under false assumptions. As I couldn't gain information from the Emperor or you as to where proof for your accusations of conspiracy were, I offered my resignation from all political offices, including that of WA Delegate. The Emperor asked me to stay Delegate till we have smoothly transitioned to a new one. I would've immediatly resigned from the WA would you or the Emperor have told me so. In addition may I inquire which LKE law I'm exactly in violation with? I checked and there doesn't seem to be one on stating your opinion and asking questions in the NS-Forums.
Still I can say that I thank both those who elected me to the position of Delegate and also to the nations which endorsed me during my tenure.

I'm not surprised there were consequences for you asking questions, I'm just disappointed it occured. I hope you're able to find a region that appreciates you and won't ban you on a whim like what just happened.

EDIT: redundant words removed

[Pichtonia]

This is a cheap excuse so these regions can justify ignoring the existence of BoM.

1.) Independents declare things like that they've "lost control" of raiders or that they're "almost always going to be a defender."
2.) Independents start libbing in force, stop working with Raiders
3.) Independents start retagging raiders
4.) Raiders send diplomats
5.) Diplomats say "if you keep treating us like an enemy, then we won't respect you and your regions arbitrarily, they'll be targets."
6.) Diplomats are ignored, rejected, told "not interested" by diplomats
6.5) Leading figures in those orgs DM leading figures in ours with vague bait that maybe things will change at some mystery point in the future if we continue to treat them like allies while they diss us. Raiders call BS.
7.) Raiders.....raid.
8.) "BREAKING NEWS, RAIDER COMMIT HOSTILE ACTS OF PROVOCATION. RAIDERS BANNED. HAHA RAIDERS MAD!!!"

I assure you, we've thought this out, we've sent diplomats, we've made compromises until the only thing left to compromise on were core values to raiding, and we've been told to fuck off, repeatedly, loudly, clearly. And also made clear that they're on Onder's leash begging for headpats, to boot. It's indeed not rocket science. Independents, capital "I," made their shift and made up their minds long before we stopped trying to treat with them. We're not going to waste targets dancing around their lawn ornaments while they piss on our doormat. Our diplomatic energies are much better focused on people interested in receiving our diplomats, drafting treaties, and growing friendships.

Emphasis mine - between this and the screens that Zeorus shared, truly, how could such friendly diplomacy be rejected!

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Clearly by Independent logic, Raider response to Independant aggression should have been to either beg for forgiveness for our sins, or immediately disown Independents in GP, and...not to send diplomats, to express that we're willing to talk, but otherwise, your actions are not those of someone we'll continue to treat with the esteem of an ally?

[RiderSyl]

Emphasis mine - between this and the screens that Zeorus shared, truly, how could such friendly diplomacy be rejected!

Criticism of our diplomatic approach is rich coming from a member of Europeia, one of the many regions crossing a moral line in their treatment of the Brotherhood of Malice. The ERN overrides our tags, we start to override theirs, and it gets spun into some bullshit about "aggression against Euro". The LKE has internal problems because they suck, and Europeia blames us - calling those internal problems "subversion backed by Malice". Tell me, what kind of message has Europeia sent this whole time by consistently twisting everything that happens into a reason to reject us? What kind of message does that send to anyone that may seek to engage with Europeia in the future? "Better hope we haven't predetermined we don't like you so we don't gaslight you about a relationship that's anything but hostile". That's what you've done to us.

Meanwhile Malice is willing to engage, willing to say "Fine, we won't raid you", we'll just put your stuff on an exemption list like raiders have for decades, but suddenly that's yet another way that we deserve all this bullshit being unfairly thrown at us. Because apparently that's bad diplomacy, despite it being good and effective for a long time.

What happened to raiders being disliked because they raided? Why must there be this complete and total nonsense?

BTW I'm sure you feel really proud about Simpsons meme, but in the context of the shadow-blacklisting that is going on, it's just feckless back-patting of a disgusting tactic.

[Madjack]

Continuing to call it a shadow blacklisting when it clearly isn't is a mix of IC and OOC that's in really poor taste tbh.

[Malphe II]

There's a lot going on here & I genuinely haven't got the spare time to keep track of all of it. Just rubber-ducking here to try to collect my thoughts.

My reading of recent BoM-indie relations is that the indies broadly wanted to maintain a status quo, BoM felt their adherence to it was disadvantageous & unfair, diplomatic attempts broke down & BoM elected to break the status quo with visibly tposing on Euro with the retag event? Near as I can tell the failing here was in diplomacy, every step since then by both regions feels more or less in character & on script for the FA of each.

The talk of blacklisting confuses me, and sorta feels like trying to inject an OOC dimension where one, from what I can tell, doesn't exist? The comparisons to TBR-DEN do feel very unfounded in my experiences dealing with BoM privately & publicly, but I haven't seen anything OOC beyond the loose implication of that comparison.

The allusions of something sinister in the BoM server also honestly confuses me. I've seen a lot of very opinionated takes on indies & the like, plus some needlessly abrasive discussions with defenders there, but if here's something genuinely offensive on that server I'd like if it was described less vaguely?

The LKE stuff is weird, not sure where the talk of BoM collusion comes from or if there's any basis for it at all. Were there communications between the PNG'd LKE folks & members of BoM before the statement was posted?

[Klaus Devestatorie]

I'd like to formally welcome Souls, Koth, Venico, Rose and Astrid to the Europeian PNG club! We have the best whiskey.

Otherwise, the split between raiderdom and Europeia is deeply satisfying to watch, and something I have wanted for many, many years. Please continue to treat us like the Ascendancy.

[RiderSyl]

The talk of blacklisting confuses me, and sorta feels like trying to inject an OOC dimension where one, from what I can tell, doesn't exist? The comparisons to TBR-DEN do feel very unfounded in my experiences dealing with BoM privately & publicly, but I haven't seen anything OOC beyond the loose implication of that comparison.

The allusions of something sinister in the BoM server also honestly confuses me. I've seen a lot of very opinionated takes on indies & the like, plus some needlessly abrasive discussions with defenders there, but if here's something genuinely offensive on that server I'd like if it was described less vaguely?

Malphe... How can you say you haven't seen anything OOC besides a loose implication of a comparison between TBR-DEN and BoM, then have your next point be about something clearly OOC?

[Pichtonia]

Criticism of our diplomatic approach is rich coming from a member of Europeia, one of the many regions crossing a moral line in their treatment of the Brotherhood of Malice.

If you have to underline the fact that many regions are apparently crossing a line in their treatment of BoM's ultimatums and threats, maybe the issue isn't with those regions but with the actions of your political leadership?

BTW I'm sure you feel really proud about Simpsons meme, but in the context of the shadow-blacklisting that is going on, it's just feckless back-patting of a disgusting tactic.

There is no context going on. You've made a bizarre claim and are now trying to portray actions to fit that claim and your imaginary context. That claim/context is in fact so far removed from reality that, would you believe it, I did not entertain it when posting the GIF (which, to answer your question, did amuse me, yes!).

[Malphe II]

Malphe... How can you say you haven't seen anything OOC besides a loose implication of a comparison between TBR-DEN and BoM, then have your next point be about something clearly OOC?

MJ booped me to say he meant the generally cavalier atmosphere in the public server, so doesn't ostensibly appear to be intended as an accusation of anything OOC?

If you think there's a coordinated effort behind the scenes to shut out BoM for OOC reasons then the ostensible response is moot, but all I'm seeing is IC.

[RiderSyl]

If you have to underline the fact that many regions are apparently crossing a line in their treatment of BoM's ultimatums and threats, maybe the issue isn't with those regions but with the actions of your political leadership?

Ah yes, all of this is indicated by my formatting a word.

There is no context going on. You've made a bizarre claim and are now trying to portray actions to fit that claim and your imaginary context. That claim/context is in fact so far removed from reality that, would you believe it, I did not entertain it when posting the GIF (which, to answer your question, did amuse me, yes!).

I take your shit-posting as more than it is, and suddenly my entire claim is out the window? I don't think so.

Any other nitpicks you want to comically exaggerate?

[RiderSyl]

MJ booped me to say he meant the generally cavalier atmosphere in the public server, so doesn't ostensibly appear to be intended as an accusation of anything OOC?

Tell me how the hell that response to you jives with this response to me earlier:

If some of the things that have happened ever actually come out, I hope you remember this post, and apologise.

[Pichtonia]

If you have to underline the fact that many regions are apparently crossing a line in their treatment of BoM's ultimatums and threats, maybe the issue isn't with those regions but with the actions of your political leadership?

Ah yes, all of this is indicated by my formatting a word.

What you said would have sufficed to come to that conclusion, but the formatting really highlighted it quite magnificently.

There is no context going on. You've made a bizarre claim and are now trying to portray actions to fit that claim and your imaginary context. That claim/context is in fact so far removed from reality that, would you believe it, I did not entertain it when posting the GIF (which, to answer your question, did amuse me, yes!).

I take your shit-posting as more than it is, and suddenly my entire claim is out the window? I don't think so.

No, you're right, your claim was bizarre before our interaction, too.

Any other nitpicks you want to comically exaggerate?

Are you offering more?