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RiderSyl
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5453
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:09 pm

King HEM wrote:
RiderSyl wrote:
Yup. That's an accurate summation of our exchange. Europeia definitely didn't compare anyone to Goebbels, and I have no idea where Unibot got that from. :eyebrow: Just.. reading the thread would've shown that that didn't happen. Maybe he skimmed it or something. Idk.


Also, I don't want to come off as ignoring your thoughtful reply to me, but I don't think there's a ton to say. You're convinced that the region is no longer fascist, and are presenting that as fact based on the evidence you've seen. I've skimmed through the evidence, and I'm not convinced. I appreciate the fact that you are putting yourself in the awkward position of defending people you don't necessarily like because you want to help them remove a particularly dark stain from their record, but given the history — and given the even looooooonnnggger history in this game of people in general lying + covering up odious undersides when it serves them — I think you are more certain than you should be.

In terms of what it would take to convince me (personally, again, still not speaking for Europeia) — I don't know. I will think about it. But frankly, I also think you and others should also think about whether in certain instances, when offenses just reach a critical mass, there is any coming back from that as a region. I would again urge those in CCD who are truly anti-fascist to consider hitting reset, and setting off into a new community. I think that would be best.


I appreciate your response. Honestly, you've hit the nail on the head with a lot of this, so there's not really anything to disagree with, just three points that you made I want to respond to.

I don't like being in this awkward position, but... it's just that when I see a legitimate redemption story going on, the idea of that redemption being denied... it doesn't sit well with me, to say the least. I've personally spoken to those I consider close friends on NS and asked their opinions of my position on CCD, because I had more than one moment where I finished typing a comment defending CCD and thought to myself "What the hell am I doing?". The fact I'm still sticking to my guns is through a mixture of evidence, my personal experience in spying on and watchdogging CCD, and the opinions of those around me on what I'm doing. I have no political motive here. If someone from TNP or Euro or anywhere, really, shows me a log of CCDers in a backchannel being fash that's from after mid-2020, then I'm going to admit I was fooled and gladly be done with this.

As for what you're urging - it was already attempted by former members of CCD - it was called the AWF - but it fell apart due to toxicity, drama, and some illegal+immoral activities. I know all this because I attempted to support the AWF for a while before it crashed and burned. Some former AWF members returned to the CCD and are currently aiding in its denazification. At least one of them were among those that helped provide evidence of their anti-fascism when I asked for it. Anyway, thanks to how awful the first attempt at setting off into a new community went, everyone's very hesitant to try again. There's also the fact that a successful press of the reset button would require no Jocospor, Shrew, or Depackya in high places of power, and going 3/3 in that is as likely as TNP electing me as its delegate next election.

Lastly, whether offenses reach a critical mass and there's no coming back from it? I've more than thought about that concept, I've gone against regions and individuals on the idea that they've crossed that line. I believe that OOC fascism is a line that can be crossed back from, depending on how deeply involved the person/group became, if a serious effort is made to redeem oneself, and the results are stark in contrast to when the line was crossed. It's my personal belief that rejecting those persons/groups that fit that criteria does more harm to the antifascist cause than good, because it shoves them right back towards the cliff they dove off of in the first place.
Last edited by RiderSyl on Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6097
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:51 am

King HEM wrote:Your post is so obviously bad-faith that I'm not even sure how to tackle it. There are plenty of people who don't see eye-to-eye with Europeia on this particular issue, and many others who don't see eye-to-eye with us on other issues. That's okay. That's a part of gameplay. But Europeia has been a leader in the anti-fascism movement for a long time. We are proud of our region, and our accomplishments in this regard. Sorry there were instances we didn't join in your missions — I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that they were well-considered efforts that aided the cause of anti-fascism and applaud you for them — that's certainly more than you gave me here.


Listen HEM, I don’t buy it for a goddamn second. When Europeia takes up a social cause, it’s always in bad faith! It’s just exceptionally gross in the case of Anti-Fascism and continues to be gross. I’m pretty sure I invited Europeia to every, or almost every liberation, against a Nazi occupation from 2011 to 2014 — at some point I just kept asking because I enjoyed making your MoFA saying no. I don’t have access to my PM box to show you, for obvious reasons.

While defenders were challenged with taking on a growing new Nazi Invader threat in 2013 (Captain Woodhouse’s group or whatever his name was), Europeia was dicking around in Nazi Europe with NPO accomplishing sweet nothing. The anti-fascism crusades make no sense as a genuine act of anti-fascism, but the pattern of behaviour exhibited makes a great deal of sense if you assume that the main point of it all is to find ways to justify invasions and tar the reputations of defenders. That’s always been the plan and it’s still the same plan: justify new invasions and fash-bash defenders for defending innocent regions.

None (?) of the regions you raided were fascist. This is just the ultimate extension of an old game: to justify as many invasions as possible under the anti-fascist label as Euro can manage. Queue raiding just escalates things further in that you now don’t need to prove that the regions you’re hitting are fascist to hit them and call it anti-fascist, which was the problem that CAIN struggled to overcome a few years ago.
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Common-Sense Politics
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Posts: 284
Founded: Sep 26, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Common-Sense Politics » Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:39 am

Unibot III wrote:I’m pretty sure I invited Europeia to every, or almost every liberation, against a Nazi occupation from 2011 to 2014 — at some point I just kept asking because I enjoyed making your MoFA saying no. I don’t have access to my PM box to show you, for obvious reasons.

I have all my PMs and don't recall any of these invitations, let alone a series of them. Maybe you were talking to someone else but I was President twice, Grand Admiral several times, and likely Minister of Foreign Affairs a couple times in that time period. With respect (genuinely), I'm tempted to call bullshit on this one.
Last edited by Common-Sense Politics on Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Numero Capitan
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Founded: Sep 27, 2007
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Numero Capitan » Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:39 am

I haven't bothered reading back but I can unequivocally say that I agree with everything HEM has said and Unibot is wrong
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Varanius
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Posts: 196
Founded: Sep 18, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Varanius » Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:51 am

Numero Capitan wrote:I haven't bothered reading back but I can unequivocally say that I agree with everything HEM has said and Unibot is wrong

This is going in my signature
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Numero Capitan wrote:I haven't bothered reading back but I can unequivocally say that I agree with everything HEM has said and Unibot is wrong

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The Church of Satan
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Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Church of Satan » Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:07 am

Numero Capitan wrote:I haven't bothered reading back but I can unequivocally say that I agree with everything HEM has said and Unibot is wrong

He's right about CAIN though. They did this very thing and most people in GP cringed pretty hard about it. Funny how some regions have now changed their mind about it.
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King HEM
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Posts: 308
Founded: Mar 07, 2007
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby King HEM » Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:36 pm

The Church of Satan wrote:
Numero Capitan wrote:I haven't bothered reading back but I can unequivocally say that I agree with everything HEM has said and Unibot is wrong

He's right about CAIN though. They did this very thing and most people in GP cringed pretty hard about it. Funny how some regions have now changed their mind about it.


I think CAIN — as imperfect as it was, and explosive its end — was an overall force for good in the game. But there's a big difference between saying, "CAIN wasn't a helpful organization" (arguable opinion) and "when Europeia takes up a social cause, it’s always in bad faith" (bombastic trolling/flaming).

Numero Capitan wrote:I haven't bothered reading back but I can unequivocally say that I agree with everything HEM has said and Unibot is wrong


Made my day heh.
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Europeian Embassy
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 46
Founded: Jan 16, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Conference of Westminster with NSUK

Postby Europeian Embassy » Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:43 pm

Over the last couple of weeks, we have engaged with NSUK through the Conference of Westminster, a series of discussions surrounding World Assembly affairs in both regions. Each region sent its own delegation of representatives to participate in the talks, with Europeia being represented by President Pichtonia, Vice President Kuramia, Minister of World Assembly Affairs Seva, Minister of Foreign Affairs Monkey, and World Assembly adviser Maowi. We were happy to discuss this topic with our counterparts from NSUK: Prime Minister Josephine Stewart, Deputy Prime Minister Angus Baker-Mountbatten, Foreign Secretary Akillian Talleyrand, and World Assembly Affairs Minister Mayim Emanu-El-Bauheim.

Both regions expressed a desire for furthering the World Assembly Affairs department within our regions, as well as looking for future opportunities to cooperate and work together. We were happy to share and impart some of our own experiences in developing and strengthening our own Ministry of World Assembly Affairs, such as the Pokémon program to incentivize participation, as well as resources for creating IFV (information for voters) statements. We expressed that we would be happy to suggest and aid any future initiatives sponsored by the NSUK government to incorporate and strengthen their World Assembly Affairs ministry.

Europeia is open to helping and cooperating with any of our allies in the World Assembly, and we were glad to have this opportunity to attend these discussions with NSUK. We wish them the best of luck in furthering their World Assembly initiatives, and look to future cooperation with their region.

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Europeian Embassy
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Posts: 46
Founded: Jan 16, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

President Calvin Coolidge Elected in Electoral Nail-biter

Postby Europeian Embassy » Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:25 pm

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact Information (Discord): wordisthebird#9813

(Europeia, February 27, 2021) - Europeia has elected Senate Speaker Calvin Coolidge as president of Europeia in a runoff election concluding Sunday, February 21. The campaign centered on foreign affairs and the role of the Europeian Republican Navy (ERN), with now-President Coolidge running strongly on "continuing the good work that our naval leadership has done so far," increasing naval transparency, and using the ERN as a tool to promote the doctrine of Independence.

After the polls closed in the initial election, no ticket had garnered a majority of all votes, and a runoff was held. The ticket of Forilian/Monkey was eliminated for the runoff; the ticket of Calvin Coolidge/Istillian then faced off against the incumbent ticket of Pichtonia/Kuramia, upsetting the incumbents by 52.9% to 47.1%.

As the president cannot serve in the Senate simultaneously, Calvin Coolidge's seat was made vacant upon the victory, triggering a by-election for the seat and a new election for speakership in the Senate. The Senate elected new Speaker UPC, who immediately set out to begin confirmation votes on the new president's cabinet.

In a statement, Calvin Coolidge commented, "I am humbled that the majority of the region has put its faith in myself and Istillian to lead it for the next 70 days." Noting that he defeated an incumbent ticket running for re-election, he added, "I want to thank Pichtonia and Kuramia for their service over the past term, we all know they are great public servants who have always performed admirably in their roles and would have done so again ..."

President Calvin Coolidge nominated the following individuals to the cabinet:
Monkey, Minister of Foreign Affairs;
Peeps, Grand Admiral;
GrandfatherClock, Minister of Interior;
McEntire, Minister of Communications;
Maowi, Minister of World Assembly Affairs;
Xecrio, Minister of Radio;
Rotasu, Minister of Culture; and
Lloenflys, Attorney General.

The nominees were confirmed by the Senate on February 24, with no senator voting against a nominee.

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Pterodaxtyl
Secretary
 
Posts: 31
Founded: Nov 04, 2019
Father Knows Best State

Postby Pterodaxtyl » Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:04 am

"Calvin Elected in Electoral Nail-biter"
I have some deja-vu going on right now :p

Congrats to Calvin and Isti and to the new Cabinet!
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Libertanny
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 54
Founded: Jun 01, 2018
Anarchy

Postby Libertanny » Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:56 am

Congratz to Calvin!

It is rather weird to see Pichto go.

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The Langburn Islands
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 44
Founded: Jan 14, 2021
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Langburn Islands » Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:06 am

Congratulations to President Calvin!
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Moonfungus
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Founded: Feb 24, 2021
Father Knows Best State

Postby Moonfungus » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:22 am

Congratulations to President Calvin and their cabinet.
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Wentshire
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Founded: Jun 30, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Wentshire » Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:47 pm

Congratulations to the new President and the new Cabinet! Wishing Pichto and Kuramia the best
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Europeian Embassy
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Founded: Jan 16, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Europeian Embassy » Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:22 pm

From the desk of the President of Europeia

Re: Balder’s Statement on Osiris

Recently, Balder has issued a public statement regarding Osiris’ mishandling of diplomatic discussions between the two parties. Their statement highlights a consistent pattern of miscommunication and disrespect towards Balder when it came to these diplomatic negotiations.

Osiris has continued to perpetuate falsehoods about Balder, saying that it “is at the ‘behest of’, or ‘subjugated’ by the LKE” and “The idea that Balder is ‘not healthy’, ‘deteriorating’, a ‘trophy’”. Osiris’ unwillingness to retract these fictitious claims shows a clear lack of regard for Balder and an open hostility towards our allies, including the LKE. It is puzzling why Osiris approached Balder and proposed renewing relations if they were not prepared to take back these inaccurate and untrue claims.

Throughout the process, Osiris has continued to stonewall and mislead Balder. This all culminated in a PNG vote on the King of Balder, NES, without any advance notice. We are disappointed at the way Osiris has chosen to handle these negotiations, and it is truly unfortunate that they have opted to continue advancing these false claims about our allies.

We would like to urge everyone to read the statement from the Crown for a more detailed account of the events that lead to this point. We fully agree with the actions and sentiments expressed by Balder, and will continue to support them in any way possible.
Last edited by Europeian Embassy on Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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The Python
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 394
Founded: Jul 24, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Python » Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:14 pm

Europeian Embassy wrote:From the desk of the President of Europeia

Re: Balder’s Statement on Osiris

Recently, Balder has issued a public statement regarding Osiris’ mishandling of diplomatic discussions between the two parties. Their statement highlights a consistent pattern of miscommunication and disrespect towards Balder when it came to these diplomatic negotiations.

Osiris has continued to perpetuate falsehoods about Balder, saying that it “is at the ‘behest of’, or ‘subjugated’ by the LKE” and “The idea that Balder is ‘not healthy’, ‘deteriorating’, a ‘trophy’”. Osiris’ unwillingness to retract these fictitious claims shows a clear lack of regard for Balder and an open hostility towards our allies, including the LKE. It is puzzling why Osiris approached Balder and proposed renewing relations if they were not prepared to take back these inaccurate and untrue claims.

Throughout the process, Osiris has continued to stonewall and mislead Balder, as well as delay progress on a peaceful resolution. This all culminated in a PNG vote on the King of Balder, NES, without any advance notice. We are disappointed at the way Osiris has chosen to handle these negotiations, and it is truly unfortunate that they have opted to continue advancing these false claims about our allies.

We would like to urge everyone to read the statement from the Crown for a more detailed account of the events that lead to this point. We fully agree with the actions and sentiments expressed by Balder, and will continue to support them in any way possible.

Given there's no mention of The Black Hawks in this statement, how will FA continue between Europeia and TBH?
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Quebecshire
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Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Quebecshire » Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:38 pm

Aside from the apparent opportunism, the worst thing about the Europeian statement is the part where they tell everyone to go read all of Balder's. C'mon, man, that's a lot of time reading that which nobody will be getting back. Sad!
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King HEM
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Founded: Mar 07, 2007
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby King HEM » Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:54 pm

Quebecshire wrote:Aside from the apparent opportunism, the worst thing about the Europeian statement is the part where they tell everyone to go read all of Balder's. C'mon, man, that's a lot of time reading that which nobody will be getting back. Sad!


I understand the aversion to reading in this game has reached almost epidemic levels, but...you're a writer...for the NS Today...
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Founder of Europeia
Former Vice Delegate of The South Pacific
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Quebecshire
Envoy
 
Posts: 267
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Quebecshire » Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:06 pm

King HEM wrote:I understand the aversion to reading in this game has reached almost epidemic levels, but...you're a writer...for the NS Today...

Yes, I am. Reading is perfectly fine if the full thing has productive content. Balder's statement was overtly long and only had concise and relevant content at the end, in the portion highlighted by Altmoras.
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Calvin Coolidge
Secretary
 
Posts: 28
Founded: Sep 23, 2013
Anarchy

Postby Calvin Coolidge » Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:03 pm

The Python wrote:
Europeian Embassy wrote:From the desk of the President of Europeia

Re: Balder’s Statement on Osiris

Recently, Balder has issued a public statement regarding Osiris’ mishandling of diplomatic discussions between the two parties. Their statement highlights a consistent pattern of miscommunication and disrespect towards Balder when it came to these diplomatic negotiations.

Osiris has continued to perpetuate falsehoods about Balder, saying that it “is at the ‘behest of’, or ‘subjugated’ by the LKE” and “The idea that Balder is ‘not healthy’, ‘deteriorating’, a ‘trophy’”. Osiris’ unwillingness to retract these fictitious claims shows a clear lack of regard for Balder and an open hostility towards our allies, including the LKE. It is puzzling why Osiris approached Balder and proposed renewing relations if they were not prepared to take back these inaccurate and untrue claims.

Throughout the process, Osiris has continued to stonewall and mislead Balder, as well as delay progress on a peaceful resolution. This all culminated in a PNG vote on the King of Balder, NES, without any advance notice. We are disappointed at the way Osiris has chosen to handle these negotiations, and it is truly unfortunate that they have opted to continue advancing these false claims about our allies.

We would like to urge everyone to read the statement from the Crown for a more detailed account of the events that lead to this point. We fully agree with the actions and sentiments expressed by Balder, and will continue to support them in any way possible.

Given there's no mention of The Black Hawks in this statement, how will FA continue between Europeia and TBH?
Our statement does not pertain to The Black Hawks. There is no further action being taken by Europeia towards either Osiris or TBH at this time.
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Altmoras
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Founded: Jan 25, 2012
New York Times Democracy

Postby Altmoras » Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:14 pm

Calvin Coolidge wrote:
The Python wrote:Given there's no mention of The Black Hawks in this statement, how will FA continue between Europeia and TBH?
Our statement does not pertain to The Black Hawks. There is no further action being taken by Europeia towards either Osiris or TBH at this time.


So would it be accurate to summarize Europeia's response to this matter as the diplomatic version of a retweet?
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Fooooooooo
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Founded: Mar 15, 2009
Democratic Socialists

Europeian Embassy - Statement on Osiris

Postby Fooooooooo » Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:30 am

On behalf of the government of Balder I would like to express our thanks to Europeia for their support in this matter.
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Frenchy II
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 164
Founded: May 31, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Frenchy II » Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:55 am

Europeian Embassy wrote:-snip-


tldr; euro continues to sink its own ship by continuously choosing the wrong diplomatic paths but go off i guess

please tell me how the Balder-LKE imperialist sphere has shown a single sign of competence in the past year. i’m sympathetic to their cause obviously, but my reverence is certainly waning!
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King HEM
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Founded: Mar 07, 2007
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby King HEM » Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:16 am

Frenchy II wrote:
Europeian Embassy wrote:-snip-


tldr; euro continues to sink its own ship by continuously choosing the wrong diplomatic paths but go off i guess

please tell me how the Balder-LKE imperialist sphere has shown a single sign of competence in the past year. i’m sympathetic to their cause obviously, but my reverence is certainly waning!


If this is truly what you believe, then your stance must be that nobody mustn't ever say a negative word about Osiris under any circumstances.

Balder has presented a comprehensive case against Osiris, and no reply or explanation has been forthcoming except people promoting wild conspiracy theories involving Founderless and Francoism (??). Again, I am open to a rebuttal of the facts as presented by Balder (that if true, would be damning), but the responses from Osiris and friends so far has basically been "cover your eyes and ears, nothing to see here!"
Last edited by King HEM on Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
HEM

Founder of Europeia
Former Vice Delegate of The South Pacific
Raider sympathizer, NS media guru, not relevant since 2009

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Comfed
Diplomat
 
Posts: 925
Founded: Apr 09, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Comfed » Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:02 pm

Frenchy II wrote:
Europeian Embassy wrote:-snip-


tldr; euro continues to sink its own ship by continuously choosing the wrong diplomatic paths but go off i guess

please tell me how the Balder-LKE imperialist sphere has shown a single sign of competence in the past year. i’m sympathetic to their cause obviously, but my reverence is certainly waning!

That’s a bit ridiculous. Balder has laid out a clear case that nobody had actually been able to refute beyond certain minor points against Osiris and Europeia makes a reasonable, clear headed diplomatic statement in support of Balder. I fail to see how that’s Euro “continuously choosing the wrong diplomatic paths”.
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Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

Numero Capitan wrote:I haven't bothered reading back but I can unequivocally say that I agree with everything HEM has said and Unibot is wrong

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