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Taking A Stand

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Xoriet
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Posts: 2046
Founded: Jun 08, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Taking A Stand

Postby Xoriet » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:47 am

“At What Point Does Abuse Deserve Your Recognition?”
Quotes of victims and people who disagreed with victim legitimacy are included, but not assigned.


Abuse over the internet. Some would call that a laughable idea. How could someone deeply and traumatically affect another person over a medium lacking real life physical interaction? Those ‘some’ would be grievously mistaken to think this. Internet relationships can be as solid as real life relationships, and so can abuse. Abuse does not have to be sexual harassment or real life threats to the other party. In fact, some of the most damaging situations to occur may involve neither. How you respond when trusted with these situations is a critical affirmation or critical blow to the self-worth of victim of the case you look at. The most important thing to remember when trying to decide on whose side you stand in cases of abuse is: Your opinion has no bearing on what happened here whatsoever, and even less bearing on what damage was left behind. What you should be thinking about is not only what happened between the abuser and victim, but in fact what impact was left on the victim’s psyche.

What someone thinks was “not a big deal” may very well be the one of worst experiences the victim has ever lived through. Your opinion well after the fact does not make the trauma any less real, and when stated will in fact contribute to the steady deterioration of their sense of self-worth. When you brush off something that dramatically affected another person, what you are really doing is telling that victim that how they feel doesn’t matter. How they are left feeling because of the maltreatment of the abuser is not a factor in how you perceive the abuser, because the victim “overreacted” and should simply “get over it like a normal person would.”

The first argument of apologists is very basic: “Well, he/she seemed to be playing along/leading him/her on anyways.” This is not only grossly untrue in many cases, it is ignoring that sometimes people have no idea how to react and try to play it cool as a method of coping. What you would call “playing along” is not the case every time. The ability to say “No” is not as commonplace as you might expect it to be in these situations. Some victims hesitate to say outright no because they fear repelling people they called friends who are now grossly abusing the trust between them, and are having trouble reconciling the situation. Others simply do not know how to react to what is going on, and their first response is not always going to be “Stop it.” It will be shock, and uncomfortable attempts to change the subject or deflect through indirect means. If you have trouble understanding how this can be the case, you have never been in a situation where saying “No” to someone is difficult, and thus you take an alternative route until hopefully the subject is changed. That does not mean that the problem is any less real to others. No two people are the same, and while one person can say “No, stop it”, the other might be unable to say that same thing.

“‘I don't want to sound insensitive... But this conversation seems rather two sided.’ Having to show logs containing harassment and repeated sexual advances was already uncomfortable, but it also came with personal information. To share this took a year to finally commit to, and the first thing said by an unrelated party was a dismissal of the entire thing as not being clear enough. Later on there were some people who took it very seriously and took decisive action, but that one person throwing the experience out the window cast a pall over the entire ordeal, and I constantly wondered if someone else I trusted these logs with in confidence was going to say the same thing and dismiss the evidence of harassment on grounds of the discomfort felt at the time not being clear enough in the logs presented.”


Another argument of apologists is “Well, that wasn’t so bad. What’s the big deal? He/she just overreacted to this.” What you should be looking at here is not what you personally think was a problem, but how the victim was affected by the abuser’s treatment. Your opinion does not mean anything to a victim who was deeply hurt or scared by the advances of his/her abuser. Voicing your disdain just tells the victim that they should feel silly for being so sensitive. What is being ignored here is the hurt left behind in this victim, and a free pass is being given to the abuser on the grounds of the aforementioned argument. Throwing verbal rocks at the glass pane that is their sense of self-worth because you don’t see the problem here is a rather contemptible move on your part.

This argument is usually issued because people expect to see explicit sexual harassment or verbal threats when they think about harassment, and thus discredit anything that seems to be less blatant than either sexual harassment or threats. Hint: Explicit does not always mean more severe. Most skilled abusers are very subtle in their work, and you may even fail to pick up on it entirely. The apologist may have failed to identify the problematic behavior, but the victim did not.

So, we come to the question. At what point does abuse deserve your recognition? What awful things have to happen to a victim before you will acknowledge the severity? What responses do the victims have to give before you will admit that they did not want this? The fact that these questions have to be asked is quite candidly unspeakable. Those who will be labeled apologists after viewing the evidence for themselves and subsequently blaming the victim, expect only the most blatant harassment by the abuser. They will admit there is a problem only when they see that the most adamant refusals by the victim have been issued before they will fully acknowledge that it was completely inappropriate and disgusting behavior. Harassment is not restricted to sexual harassment and real life threats. Abuse also is not restricted to either of those cases, for that matter. Abusers should not be exonerated of their misdeeds just because an apologist thinks that it was not blatant enough to be acknowledged, or because they choose to believe the abuser’s side of the story – “Oh, he/she lead me on”, “Oh, he/she didn’t say no”, “Oh, but I didn’t mean it.” The abuser and his/her excuses do not matter here. What matters is what damage the victim has taken from this. The victim is not the problem – the abuser is the problem.

The psychological impact on the victim is frequently overlooked by those who choose to dismiss the harassment as insufficient due to their own opinions on the subject at hand. When a victim shows someone their ordeal, they are going back through logs that left deep scarring just to show that person what they went through – whether to protect others from the same ordeal they endured, or to protect themselves from the abuser. It is a show of trust to let another person see what happened to them, and a trial to read back through logs of the situations as they occurred or to write testimony of incidents which requires thinking about and remembering what they had to suffer through. It is not an easy thing to share logs, particularly soon after the incident, and even sometimes years after it happened. When logs are shared, some people will ignore the effort it took for victims to show evidence of themselves at their most vulnerable times or their weakest moments during a traumatic experience in their lives. The willingness to go back over the times they were abused and to see once again what horrible things were said or done to the victim at the time of abuse and harassment.

“I only shared logs with people I trusted a good deal at first, because I was ashamed that this had happened to me and I had been ‘weak’ enough to be manipulated. I had never encountered what I did with him in my life, so I was grossly unprepared for it when it came. At first I thought I just didn’t want to hurt his reputation further, because I had made a decision to forgive. I begged him never to do that to someone else again. But after a while, I realized that I would never be able to forget. Furthermore, while I trusted him not to do it again to someone else, I could have been putting another player in danger by withholding what I had. So eventually I shared, and I was able to create a network of people who would be willing to shield me if he ever came back. I was no longer alone, no other player would go through what I had, and I was grateful for these new realities.”

This essay continually brings up the words “psychological impact.” What does psychological impact mean? The answer to that is that it can be either as ‘light’ as bad memories that are uncomfortable to talk or think about, or it can be as deep as developing a legitimate anxiety disorder over what happened to the victim. PTSD, to name a more famous one, is not a disorder that is restricted to one traumatic incident like a bad car accident, living through a war in a foreign country, or being sexually abused. It is not restricted to real life, either. It can, in fact, be developed through a long period of time over the internet suffering through severe abuse and threats and manipulation. Just because you disagree that it is a valid way to develop a mental disorder does not mean that it is any less valid when it happens. PTSD is perfectly possible to develop from long-term abuse, and over the internet. If you think that sounds absurd, again, your opinion does not change facts. Weeks or months of being degraded, harassed, threatened, and made to feel worthless will take a deep psychological toll.

“It started as simple controlling behavior and harassment in the form of bullying in NS. When that ended due to intervention and a temporary separation, it turned to a RL angle, the abuser no longer content with NS. It went from subtle controlling behavior to outright orders, sexual advances, verbal abuse, emotional blackmail... I was told that I was lower than dirt, that I deserved the worst, that I would be better off dead. It eventually spiraled to real life death threats. The result of this was that I developed PTSD six months after it ended. Once he was gone for good, the PTSD began to include hallucinations like hearing his voice telling me I was worthless, and nightmares and frequent mental scenarios and paranoia that I would see him come here with the intention to kill me like he so often talked about. I saw a recent thing in Gameplay making an issue over the argument that PTSD is restricted to soldiers in war. But you know, living through severe abuse and harassment is surviving a war on your own. War does not always come in the form of explosions and death and atrocities. War can be psychological and exist solely between two people.”

Why did it go on for so long, one might ask after seeing timestamps from logs that go back for months at a time? Because the victim may not necessarily have realized what was happening. Again, some abusers are very subtle and not everyone is informed enough to see it happen. Some victims may have been afraid to lose a friend by speaking out. Other victims may have been conditioned to feel reliant on the abuser, and thus are even less likely to speak out. There can be many other reasons, though these three are the most common in my experience. Abusers choose victims based on several reasons. One is that they have the ability to see vulnerability and the will to take advantage of it. Your average long-term victim is frequently either identified as vulnerable in areas that can be exploited and decided to commit to the effort, or just someone the abuser developed an obsession with and spent time looking for weaknesses that could be exploited until they found something. Conditioning is a dangerous and potent process that sometimes is built up in ways that are not easily identified by a naïve or trusting victim until it is too late and reliance becomes a reality.

"I tried saying “no”, but sometimes the line was so blurred. It didn’t seem as if it were a normal situation to say no to. I trusted this person very much. What went on, it was subtle. Bits here and there, nothing outright explicit toward me, but the aim of topic of conversation seemed to be indirectly aimed at me. “Hypothetical” conversations here and there… In the back of my mind, I felt a nudge of discomfort, but keeping in mind I trusted this person, I thought these advances of conversation were normal, so saying “no” didn’t seem to fit."

Stockholm syndrome is the mind’s way of protecting itself from the abuse being dealt to the victim, and is certainly a reason that the victim will defend the abuser sometimes even after they have been separated from their manipulations. Yes, all of this is very possible over the internet. Vulnerabilities can be exploited by abusers over the internet perhaps even more effectively than with real life, because over text a person can be vastly different from how they are in their real life settings. Internet communication is in some ways far more direct; a mind-to-mind interaction that does not require overcoming the same boundaries than what is usual - even possible - in person. Direct mind-to-mind communication creates the opportunity for a quicker lowering of barriers, and relationships can progress far more swiftly than they might in person.

"I didn't realize at the time what was going on, or why I'd gotten to a point where if she wasn't there, or wasn't speaking to me, why it'd feel like going through withdrawal, my insides felt like they were curling in on themselves, twisting around. There was a visceral pain inside from a lack of contact with her. I still can't say when it began, or how it started to change to controlling me. She had conditioned me to do only as told, and I did so too eagerly by the time it was too late to escape. The verbal abuses were only made tolerable because at least if she was screaming at me, I was getting some of her attentions, even if I hadn't done anything to deserve her anger. After awhile, though, I could hear the screaming even when I was awake and alone. My self-worth plummeted rapidly and my sleep was interrupted by terrible nightmares. Awake, I had no reprieve and often went several days on only an hour or so of sleep, and barely ate. Even despite this, I waited patiently, albeit agonizingly, to see her name come up online, running to her excitedly, often to be berated or told to go away. I took it, because at least it was something. So many days did I worry about losing her, when I never realized I was losing myself in the process. She had me believing I was an absolute failure to her. And to me back then, that was a far worse fate than death. I didn't just defend her, either, I turned on many of my friends, attacking them for slights against her, or every time they tried to tell me she was toxic and bad for my health. I was becoming sicker and sicker physically as I continued to spiral out of control. It took everything in my power to finally escape, and honestly, in reality, she probably really was the one who released me. I don't think I would have been able to escape her abuse on my own."

The circumstances of how the trauma developed do not always seem to “match” the severity of the trauma left behind. It does not take real life death threats and explicit sexual advances to leave an impact. The trauma is dependent on the nature of the victim, and how he/she perceives the abuse as it happens. Something one person might dismiss as insufficient could well be significant to the victim. The one given witness to this does not have the ability to say that overreaction is the problem. Overreaction is not the problem in cases where the trauma is not “equal to” the circumstances. What matters is that the trauma exists, and that it should not be disregarded over personal opinion. A victim suffering through residual trauma in the aftermath should be enough to tell you that it was not a small matter to the victim. What you might say is not a big deal could well be a big deal to the next victim you contribute to bringing to the abuser by dismissing it and permitting them access to other potential victims. Because it will happen again. Abusers are rarely not serial. If you fail to understand why the victim reacted so badly and was so deeply hurt and choose to disregard what you are given, you can safely bet that you are already failing to understand why the next victim will react so badly to the same, or perhaps even more honed, tactics. Giving the abuser/harasser access to a larger victim pool is quite frankly a stupid thing to do.

"The trauma done to myself can be and is considered minor when compared to other cases, but due to the close relationship between myself and the harasser, it left psychological trauma at a deep level for me. This is italicized: because of the nature of the relationship. So even if you look at the situation I was involved in, it does not seem so terrible looking at the surface of the harassment, but the damage was done in my mind, if you only looked deeper.”

At what point does abuse deserve your recognition? It should not be when it meets your standards. It should be when you look at the victim, see how deeply they have been affected by this, and realize that the evidence is only proof that it happened. What you should judge the abuser on is not how “severe” the abuse was, or whether or not the victim said “No” in a clear and decisive enough way to merit your attention. The abuser should not be given a blanket pardon or leeway because they are your friend. The abuser is someone who took the trust and life of another person and ran it through a garbage disposal for their own self-gratification. Why are you judging it by what you think about it? What right do you have to belittle the trauma of a victim or condone the actions of an abuser when presented with the facts? You do not, and you should not think you do. If you are given evidence, stop prevaricating over your perception of what happened between them, and take a good look at the damage the abuser left. That is what you are enabling the abuser to bestow upon the next victim you give them access to by pardoning what happened. Is that abuser still worth your protection when you see what their abuse has done to their victim? If you still want to say yes to that, just remember: There will be another victim.
Senator of Diplomatic Affairs of the New Pacific Order

This flame we carry into battle
A fading memory
This light will conquer the darkness
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Rovikstead
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Ex-Nation

Postby Rovikstead » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:57 am

With all due respect, I understand that cyber bullying has ruined people's lives, and I've even witnessed people blackmailing others with nude pictures and such, but when someone goes on social media, they have to take into account that they're openly sharing their information, and they have to be aware that they will be criticized. And there's always the option of just leaving an internet conversation or leaving social media if you feel bad about cyberbullying, unless you've allowed someone to have the opportunity to blackmail you.
I do not intend to say "It's the victim's fault for being cyberbullied," but you can't go onto the internet and not think you'll be criticized.

I've been in situations like a dude who was saying rather disgusting things. I just had to say "stop it," and warned him about how transmitting sexual things over the internet towards a minor is criminal, and I wouldn't be afraid to send it to the police. He left, and all that was over.
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Xoriet
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Founded: Jun 08, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Xoriet » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:21 am

Rovikstead wrote:With all due respect, I understand that cyber bullying has ruined people's lives, and I've even witnessed people blackmailing others with nude pictures and such, but when someone goes on social media, they have to take into account that they're openly sharing their information, and they have to be aware that they will be criticized. And there's always the option of just leaving an internet conversation or leaving social media if you feel bad about cyberbullying, unless you've allowed someone to have the opportunity to blackmail you.
I do not intend to say "It's the victim's fault for being cyberbullied," but you can't go onto the internet and not think you'll be criticized.I've been in situations like a dude who was saying rather disgusting things. I just had to say "stop it," and warned him about how transmitting sexual things over the internet towards a minor is criminal, and I wouldn't be afraid to send it to the police. He left, and all that was over.


It sounds like there is a logical exit, and indeed there is. Now, what isn't taken into account here is the nature of NS. Gameplay in particular is entirely based on social interaction and how it plays into political and social objectives. Sometimes you have to deal with unpleasant people to play. There are a number I preferred to not associate with exactly because of that.

However, what you aren't taking into account is that not everyone operates solely on the common sense solution. NS has been an escape for a lot of people with bad lives. NS is an escape for people who may not be in the best mental condition to act on such terms. NS is home to a variety of people.

Abuse isn't always blatant. In fact, it can be so subtle that you don't notice until it is too late. You've established a friendship with this person and they've spent time conditioning you to rely on them. Psychological manipulation is a huge issue, especially when taking into account the fact that abusers and potential abusers identify mentally vulnerable individuals to harass. It's happened to me, and I was so naive and inexperienced that I didn't realize what was happening. But I was lonely, and even after I cut contact on strong advice from people, I harbored guilt for displacing this person and I was still lonely and missed the friendship that had existed before the abuse became recognizable. By this time, in my case, I wanted to let go and failed. I spent five months enduring worse and worse treatment because I had been conditioned slowly and carefully to rely on this person I thought was my friend. Eventually I broke free, largely out of fear for my life. By the time you find the strength to break free, it might have gone on for a very long time. It isn't always easy.

As a side note:

Abuse claims are not always true. They can be misinterpreted. What you should look for is evidence that there was malicious intent to actually damage the target. Sexual harassment is a blatant example, as is verbal abuse. It is harder in cases of emotional manipulation.

It is not hard to tell when someone is taking something personally. You can't call it abuse if someone is rude or inconsiderate to you. Common sense is a thing when examining evidence. Don't confuse your opinion of the alleged or actual abuser with unbiased opinion.

Such claims can be used as weapons. Actual abuse is something that can be identified. Don't take claims without log evidence. If you receive testimony, it helps to have a character witness present to verify the honesty of someone testifying.

There is a difference between abuse and someone being offended or not being able to understand why someone is being so rude to them. If you have trouble determining which is which, ask someone who has worked on harassment cases before to help.
Last edited by Xoriet on Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Senator of Diplomatic Affairs of the New Pacific Order

This flame we carry into battle
A fading memory
This light will conquer the darkness
Shining bright for all to see

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Rovikstead
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Founded: Dec 05, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Rovikstead » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:06 am

Firstly, I apologize, because I thought that you were talking about the abuse on all social media outlets, and not just on NationStates. Secondly, I do feel that the moderators are capable of being able to find these people as long as someone reports someone else. These moderators are people, not just robots, and have had enough experience to know if someone is being harassed, even through subtle conversations.

These moderators are here to protect us and sometimes remove our privileges to be in the WA for a year because you didn't read the rules and heed their warnings. If you ever need help, they'll gladly respond. Time and time again, I've witnessed them, without even having to be messaged or given notice of such abuse taking place, the moderators have been able to stop an abuser dead in his or her tracks. They also have a Delete On Sight tool, which can prevent a cyber bully from ever returning to the site on a new account.

Also, I should add in here: You're the one who gets to decide whether you go on the internet or not. You're the one who ultimately makes the decision to make yourself vulnerable. That very click to get to your internet browser is an agreement to potentially be criticized and abused on the internet. If you ever feel uncomfortable, then just leave. Nobody's going to grip onto, preventing you from leaving. You can always just report anything wrong to a moderator, as well. You're not helpless in these situations.
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Former Minister of Culture in TEP
The Glorious Third Reign of Templedom wrote:** RED FLAG ** . ** RING CHURCH BELLS ** . ** BESTIALITY ALERT ** . ** CHRISTIANS TAKE COVER **

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Shizensky
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Postby Shizensky » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:58 am

Rovikstead wrote:You're the one who gets to decide whether you go on the internet or not. You're the one who ultimately makes the decision to make yourself vulnerable. That very click to get to your internet browser is an agreement to potentially be criticized and abused on the internet. If you ever feel uncomfortable, then just leave.

This line of thinking is a large part of the problem. It should be the other way around, that if someone is participating in a community, they shouldn't be able to harass and bully others until their way is the only way. We shouldn't expect abuse and we should not be okay with normalizing abuse. While it's true that the exposure might make us vulnerable, I am strongly against the idea that any form of social interaction is in any way an agreement to be abused.

I'm glad to see Xor posting this and I sincerely hope people give the text a good read. We've seen it before, where people are nasty and abusive but they're allowed to carry on because of who they are or who they're connected to. That's not the fault of NS mods, who can't act based on behavior in chat rooms or off site forums, it's the fault of the communities who decide to ignore the problems for whatever perceived advantages they believe they'll gain.
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Kshrlmnt
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Postby Kshrlmnt » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:13 pm

I think there still may need to be some clarification, as we're coming at this from different angles. A large proportion of active NSers interact mostly off-site, not on-site. When something is done on-site, the moderators can definitely intervene (and do, as we saw this last May). And while friendships can form on-site, for myself and many others, the bulk of our interactions and friendships are via forums, MSN, Skype, Discord, IRC, etc. Closer friendships often transfer to video and phone calls, texts, and even RL meetups.

In casual interactions, and many of the 'business' interactions on this site, you're right--if someone gets upset at you or insults you, or works against you politically, it's part of the game. That's just how it goes. And yes, it tends to be easy to spot.

But that's not what Xoriet is talking about. These are cases where someone has made the jump from fellow gamer to friend--and where abuse isn't nearly so obvious. In some cases, the abuser will get more clingy and then controlling; in other cases, they build up a situation where you look to them for love and affirmation, and you get it only when you do exactly what they want; in yet other cases they're just a little more touchy or interested than you know how to deal with. There are a thousand shades of awful, but they don't start out that way.

If you enter a chat and someone calls you stupid, yes, you can just walk out, or expect a moderator to warn them. But if you've been friends with someone for months and they do it, you take it differently. Plenty of people joke like that; surely that's all it was. And they're still your friend, and then maybe they :) at you.

Then it happens again. And again. "Just kidding!" "You always mess things up, but I love you anyway." "Good thing you've got me to sort things out." Again and again and again--and surely something's wrong with you, not them. They're your friend and they love you, it's just that you're a bad person. They must be truly kind to put up with you, and someone that kind and smart would know what they're talking about when they say you're wrong, right?

Or maybe it's a friend you flirt with, just for jokes. Then one day they get a bit more up-close than before--but surely it's still in play, right? And in awkward situations, so often it's easier to let it pass than confront it, because surely it wasn't that much further than you've already said or done. A kiss instead of a peck on the cheek, maybe. But then you've said nothing, and they do it again, or do more.

These cases aren't sudden or obvious. They build up over time, with a person you trust--which makes it all harder to spot, and all the worse. Online and in person are only two aspects of the same thing, here. Saying it's an accepted risk of getting online is like saying getting run over by a car is an accepted risk of stepping out the door of your house.
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Queen Yuno
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Ex-Nation

Postby Queen Yuno » Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:44 pm

This one hits close to home. I've gone through this before IRL/Internet with multiple men that I've grown used to this pattern:

--

Yeah it doesn't look like abuse, and maybe 90% won't call it abuse, maybe they adore this person who's causing you stress. Maybe they're well-liked and reputable.

When it reaches that point...the most you can do...what you must do..
Be selfish and hit the block button. Erase the existing bond. Even if you feel there's absolutely no reason to do this because they've never harassed you:

You've reached the point that it's probably just you being oversensitive, you're overreacting, they've done no wrong. They're perfect and being themselves and you're just getting mad at every little thing. You can't report them because there's nothing reportworthy (or you've lead them on or you've got your equal share of secrets, you never said stop) and why would you anyway? They've good-intentioned people with few mistakes. PMs should stay PMs, don't leak privacy... <<<you're thinking all this. Can be false/true but that's the impression you're getting, feeling.


And you might be right. You're getting hurt but it's not his intention to hurt you. He argues with you 4/5 times you talk because he cares. You're thinking this sorta stuff. You're probably wrong, in reality, he truly is a bad person(nah hard to believe), but regardless of what he really is, you can't bring yourself to accept that because it's selfish/cold/spiteful to someone you consider a friend. You can't find any faults in him no matter how hard you look so you pin the blame on yourself.

That's fine, early on-- do that.

Do that, and take this perspective instead: think for yourself, do things for yourself.

You're a bad person, but
Be selfish for once.

You're in the wrong, but you can think "I'll be selfish just this once" and end the relationship. Simply because the person causes you unnecessary stress 80% of the time and 20% happiness, because you're always failing that person's standards. You're not good enough for them and you need stress relief.

Be evil, be inconsiderate of him, and destroy the bond, for your own sake.

That's fine. They can call you a betrayal, claim you've violated their trust in every way, state that they expected better of you. You've stabbed them in the back.

And yeah, well turns out you do suck. They'll have to deal with you blocking them simply because you were too selfish, too sensitive, and got stressed by them even if they didn't intend any of it.

It's you 100% in the wrong, you got sick of putting up with your friend's bullshit all the time so you ended a friendship.

Now afterwards, your emotions catch up to you. You've realized you are terrible, you've essentially made a friend made them put their trust in you over time and singlehandedly crushed it. It's either that or you realize he was an asshole and you're better off, calmer now. You don't know which one it is and feel a desire to rant about him or the situation to someone you dont have second thoughts about, an objective person..

So you rant about him but who can you report him to, hmmn? He'll find out.

And that may stop you, you hesitated, you've been so selfish.

Who can you really trust to confide to?

What if reporting someone brings no results except word reaching the person. You're gossiping. He finds out you're going around talking shit about him when you're really venting to one person. It takes incredible trust and a promise they won't share what you'll tell them, before you confide what you've been feeling and your reasonings.

Not the least, that too can been violated by who you choose to confide to.

---------------


I've ended many relationships when it reached the point the man was arguing with me constantly over legitimate stuff. He had high standards and he's right, I wasn't spending enough time with him or I wasn't doing enough with him, he had the right to complain. Rather than be understanding and attempt to increase more time I spent with him, I ended it. Oh, ranted about him to select friends and they tell others about it and word reaches him like paper butterflies, and I'm like -.-"

(I'm counting several already, (O.o) so it's likely me doing something wrong.. with the self-justification not wanting to keep a friend who fights with me for months around :( )

I'm totally the witch here, but I've not been denying it. I need to preserve my own sanity...so I've been mean.

T_T"

Sorry for my walltext.

tldr; you wont be feeling a moral highground when you're breaking a bond, abusive/not...which is how it gets difficult. And you need to be careful who you talk to about it.
Last edited by Queen Yuno on Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stop giving misogynistic abusers a platform. Anyone who sides with Tiktok Star Andrew Tate even 1% of what he says will be treated as enemy who should be shamed out of society. Impressions+Views+Videowatches=$. Nothing he says is new or revolutionary. I don't care if he said "some good stuff", it's still bad because: the more you watch him, the more ad revenue MONEY and algorithm BOOSTS you're giving him to traffick victims. And don't say the victim lied, a young man stupidly told me that the victim confessed to lying, I told em to link me proof, articles or the Audio of her confession, he googled and found 0 proof 0 articles, and he realized he was spreading fake rumors he heard and BELIEVED without fact-check. Don't brand victims as liars without GOOGLING. Debated here

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Reploid Productions
Director of Moderation
 
Posts: 30511
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Reploid Productions » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:09 pm

Insofar as it pertains to anything on Nationstates itself, if you are being harassed, you do not have to endure it in silence. Tell the sender not to contact you, block them. If they continue, come to us. While we cannot do anything based on NS-related harassment taking place in offsite locations such as Skype, Discord, or IRC chats, we can act on on-site behavior. Once you've got that "Do not contact me" on record on-site, any further attempts the harasser makes on-site is pretty much automatically harassment. We have DOSed people for it, and a few times helped advise the victims in especially serious instances on going to law enforcement. And if a situation is merely brewing, still, let us know. Even if all you can say is that "so-and-so has been harassing me in Skype and I'm worried it will occur on NS" while we cannot act on that, it does let us know to be alert to the possibility of that offsite behavior making its way into on-site behavior.

I wish there was more I could do to stop such antics, but aside from the aforementioned moderator end of it, my TG box is always open. Taking care of your emotional well-being must take priority. If somebody you think is a friend demands that you sacrifice your well-being constantly to take care of their well-being, that's a big red flag. I had a long-distance relationship with a guy who did nothing but belittle things I liked and then get pissed off whenever I got mad back and called him on it. Hell, he tried to bitch me out about daring to login to Nationstates and not get on our IRC chat. (The only reason he EVER had an account on NS was to see if I was in the active users list.) The "potential future abuser" flags were well and truly flying but I didn't recognize it until after a New Years' party when he was out here visiting and he, while completely sober, got into a red-faced screaming fight and damn near came to blows with a drunk idiot over nothing more dire than a rumor about an anime series. Thankfully, several friends of mine saw the signs and gave me several concerned talks- coupled with that debacle, I cut the relationship off. And a good thing too- we stayed friends for awhile after the breakup, but his behavior only got worse and worse. Safe to say even the lingering friendship is now a thing of the past, and nothing of value lost in its passing.
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Kaboomlandia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7395
Founded: May 22, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Kaboomlandia » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:58 pm

This is a very strong article, and I firmly believe that this is a discussion that is very important to have as a community.
In=character, Kaboomlandia is a World Assembly member and abides by its resolutions. If this nation isn't in the WA, it's for practical reasons.
Author of GA #371 and SC #208, #214, #226, #227, #230, #232
Co-Author of SC #204
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Tinhampton
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13705
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:12 pm

Nice work. Have you considered putting this in the Bachtendekuppen Memorial Library?
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 329,537): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415, GA#647, GA#656, GA#664, GA#671, GA#674, GA#675, GA#677, GA#680, Issue #1580, GA#682, GA#683, GA#684, GA#692, GA#693, GA#715
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Blackwatch Federation
Secretary
 
Posts: 27
Founded: Nov 12, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Blackwatch Federation » Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:14 pm

"Abuse over the internet" hahahahaha
This world is plagued with many sicknesses and moronic ideals. I will cleanse it, with fire.

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The Equal Peoples State of Steelia
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 461
Founded: Sep 20, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Equal Peoples State of Steelia » Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:40 am

This is a seriously important discussion to have on here, while I don't feel as if I have been harassed, I have been uncomfortable, and that isn't always their fault that I am, this isn't on here, I've always been happy on here, I had some more youthful relationships on here, nothing but happy memories about the carefree nature of the confluent love shared. Regardless, I myself have seen people really fade due to mistakes they've made online. They were lured in by people who proclaimed to be their friends, I run a TeamSpeak, I've had occasions where during the course of relationships people have sent explicit images, when these have been relased after the end of a relationship, I've been the one trying to comfort them and it's tough to hear the genuine despair these people feel. Something I think we all need to remember is that while people may just be little more than a Nation name on a screen, or a username on social media, these are people just like us who have an inalienable right to feel happy and to use these websites and apps. If anyone is suffering from this, there are resources available as the moids will tell you and I want you to know my genuine sympathy goes out to your plight.
Hmm, when a 14 year old socialist made this account, he should of picked a less socialist name considering he's now right wing libertarian.
Pros: My liberties, Pacifism, Music so heavy your ears bleed, Ron Paul, Guns, Weed, Garry Johnson, Ronald Reagan, plutocracy
Meh: LGBTQ, Abortion, NHS, Brexit,
Anti: Large Government, Political "Correctness", Communism, Rampant destruction of liberties under the euphemistic pretence of "equality" rejections of objective fact. Trump and Clinton, democracy
Idealist (Metaphysics)


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