Coalition Against the Ideology of Nazism

[Anarcha Feminist Gynarchy]

they seem to accuse nearly all non-CAIN members of being either Nazis or Nazi collaborators. And that is simply not okay for the reasons I have already given. It is disgusting how CAIN is shutting down all opposition to itself, by calling anyone who opposes it a Nazi or Nazi collaborator. At this rate, we'll be having purges in a couple of months, and pretty soon, we'll be living in the United Socialist Republics of Nation States. And that will only be fun for the few.

it's hysterical to suggest that CAIN is close to doing any of the things you're suggesting.

Explain how it is hysterical, if it is so called hysterical. Because this is what the modern day, radical left is doing with this. They lost the buzzword war, now they are trying Nazi as a way to control the conversation. Well it wont work either way, as if I know anything that this will only make the real Nazis and far rightists only more reactionary/radical in getting what they want. So if you stop this now then we wont be living under the "nazis"

[Cresenthia]

they seem to accuse nearly all non-CAIN members of being either Nazis or Nazi collaborators. And that is simply not okay for the reasons I have already given. It is disgusting how CAIN is shutting down all opposition to itself, by calling anyone who opposes it a Nazi or Nazi collaborator. At this rate, we'll be having purges in a couple of months, and pretty soon, we'll be living in the United Socialist Republics of Nation States. And that will only be fun for the few.

since CAIN's formation half a year ago, there has never been an expansion of the Nazi Region list beyond the initial three regions. those three Nazi Regions make up 0.01% of all regions in the world.

there are as of this post a grand total of 122 regions in the CAIN Nazi Collaborator list, which is obtained by looking at regions that have either requested, are constructing, or have completed embassies with the three Nazi regions, removing out the six exempt "embassy collectors", and filtering out 41 regions with only 1-2 nations.

there are also, as of this post, a grand total of 19,715 regions in the game. 122/19715 = 0.6%. That's 6 out of every thousand regions having been labeled a Collaborator, a label they've earned by building relationships with Nazis.

8 Collaborators (6% of collaborators, or 0.04% of world regions) are due to an embassy with Nazi Europa, 26 (21% of collaborators/0.1% of world regions) from National Socialist Ministries, and the remainder (72%/0.4%) from Kaiserreich.

there has never been a vote to add regions to the Collaborator list. there has been a successful vote to remove the six "embassy collector" regions from the collaborator list.

it's hysterical to suggest that CAIN is close to doing any of the things you're suggesting.

What percentage of the nations of NS reside in those 122 regions? How many of those nations have absolutely nothing to do with Nazis (actual Nazis, not what CAIN considers to be Nazis)? Probably all but maybe one or two. And about those embassy regions, TRF, of which you are a prominent measure, voted against delisting them, on the basis that they are complicit in Nazis crimes. There is absolutely no justification to argue that regions such as The Embassy are complicit with Nazism, with a regime that as has already been noted in this thread, is responsible for murdering millions of civilians. Nor can one make the case for a region such as Order of the Southern North being in any way reprehensible for the crimes of the Nazi regime. And once again, Kaiserreich is not a Nazi region, nor a "Nazi Collaborator," nor condones Nazism in anyway, and therefore, cannot be lumped in with a regime guilty of crimes against humanity. The only group reprehensible in this whole affair is CAIN, and it is the source of any hysteria. And members of CAIN have proposed an ideological ban, or are you going to assign my belief in that fact to my supposed hysteria?

[RiderSyl]

I feel like I need to be smoking something for this to make sense.

[Indo-Malaysia]

since CAIN's formation half a year ago, there has never been an expansion of the Nazi Region list beyond the initial three regions. those three Nazi Regions make up 0.01% of all regions in the world.

there are as of this post a grand total of 122 regions in the CAIN Nazi Collaborator list, which is obtained by looking at regions that have either requested, are constructing, or have completed embassies with the three Nazi regions, removing out the six exempt "embassy collectors", and filtering out 41 regions with only 1-2 nations.

there are also, as of this post, a grand total of 19,715 regions in the game. 122/19715 = 0.6%. That's 6 out of every thousand regions having been labeled a Collaborator, a label they've earned by building relationships with Nazis.

8 Collaborators (6% of collaborators, or 0.04% of world regions) are due to an embassy with Nazi Europa, 26 (21% of collaborators/0.1% of world regions) from National Socialist Ministries, and the remainder (72%/0.4%) from Kaiserreich.

there has never been a vote to add regions to the Collaborator list. there has been a successful vote to remove the six "embassy collector" regions from the collaborator list.

it's hysterical to suggest that CAIN is close to doing any of the things you're suggesting.

What percentage of the nations of NS reside in those 122 regions? How many of those nations have absolutely nothing to do with Nazis (actual Nazis, not what CAIN considers to be Nazis)? Probably all but maybe one or two. And about those embassy regions, TRF, of which you are a prominent measure, voted against delisting them, on the basis that they are complicit in Nazis crimes. There is absolutely no justification to argue that regions such as The Embassy are complicit with Nazism, with a regime that as has already been noted in this thread, is responsible for murdering millions of civilians. Nor can one make the case for a region such as Order of the Southern North being in any way reprehensible for the crimes of the Nazi regime. And once again, Kaiserreich is not a Nazi region, nor a "Nazi Collaborator," nor condones Nazism in anyway, and therefore, cannot be lumped in with a regime guilty of crimes against humanity. The only group reprehensible in this whole affair is CAIN, and it is the source of any hysteria. And members of CAIN have proposed an ideological ban, or are you going to assign my belief in that fact to my supposed hysteria?

Watch out kids, I am an evil Nazi region leader... apparently according to CAINS skewed logic

[Sygmund]

I feel like I need to be smoking something for this to make sense.

Syl speaks for us all

[Aimdar-Goomdar]

What percentage of the nations of NS reside in those 122 regions? How many of those nations have absolutely nothing to do with Nazis (actual Nazis, not what CAIN considers to be Nazis)? Probably all but maybe one or two. And about those embassy regions, TRF, of which you are a prominent measure, voted against delisting them, on the basis that they are complicit in Nazis crimes. There is absolutely no justification to argue that regions such as The Embassy are complicit with Nazism, with a regime that as has already been noted in this thread, is responsible for murdering millions of civilians. Nor can one make the case for a region such as Order of the Southern North being in any way reprehensible for the crimes of the Nazi regime. And once again, Kaiserreich is not a Nazi region, nor a "Nazi Collaborator," nor condones Nazism in anyway, and therefore, cannot be lumped in with a regime guilty of crimes against humanity. The only group reprehensible in this whole affair is CAIN, and it is the source of any hysteria. And members of CAIN have proposed an ideological ban, or are you going to assign my belief in that fact to my supposed hysteria?

I do agree that KAISERREICH is not a Nazi region nor a Nazi Collaborator and is simply a model of a Germanic Empire before the 20th Century Germany.

However, hateful ideologies should indeed be banned if they promote hateful activities that hurt a person, a group of people, or more. Nazism is clearly an ideology that advocates for hate, and much like how hate speech is not included in free speech, hateful ideologies are not included in political freedoms.

[Caelapes]

TRF only voted against one of the six "embassy collectors": Right To Life.

[Cresenthia]

However, hateful ideologies should indeed be banned if they promote hateful activities that hurt a person, a group of people, or more. Nazism is clearly an ideology that advocates for hate, and much like how hate speech is not included in free speech, hateful ideologies are not included in political freedoms.

By that standard, communism is a hateful ideology, as it calls for forced redistribution of capital. Therefore, communism should be banned.

When CAIN treats themselves as they treat others, I might well be able to rest.

[Conservative Values]

I do agree that KAISERREICH is not a Nazi region nor a Nazi Collaborator and is simply a model of a Germanic Empire before the 20th Century Germany

Pre-20th century Germans would not refer to themselves as fascist. Nor would they fly a swaztica for a forum background for ages.

They are not Nazis, they are just German fascists seems like a strange argument.

[Cresenthia]

I do agree that KAISERREICH is not a Nazi region nor a Nazi Collaborator and is simply a model of a Germanic Empire before the 20th Century Germany

Pre-20th century Germans would not refer to themselves as fascist. Nor would they fly a swaztica for a forum background for ages.

They are not Nazis, they are just German fascists seems like a strange argument.

We don't refer to ourselves as fascist. We aren't using that tag.

[Blutmark]

Well here are my two cents:

The only relevant definition during this debate whenever KReich is a nazi region is the CAIN's definition.

[align=center](Image)


1. Definitions

Nazism: The ideology and practice associated with the 20th-century German Nazi Party and Nazi state, as well as other far-right groups. In the context of NationStates, it is an ideology that glorifies National Socialism or Nazi Germany and/or actively practices Nazi beliefs such as antisemitism, pseudo-scientific racism, racial hygiene, slaughter for living space, genocide, eugenics, persecution of LGBT, etc.
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First of, Kaiserreich as a Region does not practice the Nazi ideology. There however always that shadow over that their (ex-) leaders have not done their homework to ensure that the far-right ideology does not get in.

The more tricky as well as the best case to be made is whenever what glorification of Nazism means. Is it enough to be a Wehraboo? Or do you need to use Nazi propaganda as your own? I have contacted Cresenthia a couple days ago about some imagery I found problematic. One was one of August Dieckmann, SS-Standartenführer as well as an iron cross with a swastika in it. Kaiserreich removed it rather quick. However, to my dismay, they quickly reused Nazi propaganda in one of their official dispatches.

My conclusion is that they do not look into what comes in. I personally would not consider them to be nazis. In the context of CAIN however, I would interpret that they would fit the definition.

[New Orangeville]

I will not be removing our embassy with the KAISERREICH

[Drop Your Pants]

I will not be removing our embassy with the KAISERREICH

Well done, have a cookie.

[Hobbesistan]

Statement of the Executive of the Sovereign East Pacific on continuing membership in the Coalition Against the Ideology of Nazism

The East Pacific faces itself at a crossroads. Many within our region question the moral goals, objectives, as well as procedures undertaken by this Coalition; specifically branding a region as 'nazi' often with little remarkable evidence, of which none is presented outside of the organizations closed door meetings. We also face the ethical questions placed by this organization, as well as the ever present question of our regions sovereignty within regards to this treaty.

While the specific merits of our continued membership are to be debated by our Magisterium, I am placing the following actions in effect within my purview as Delegate of the East Pacific:

• I will not be delivering any amendments to this treaty to the Magisterium for vote.
• The East Pacific Sovereign Army will not participate in CAIN operations, unless there is sufficient evidence that The East Pacific's own security, or that of our allies, is threatened.
• The East Pacific will not vote on any further CAIN votes pertaining to the defining of 'Nazi regions' or 'Nazi Collaborators'

These actions will be considered temporary unto the Magisterium decides on TEP's long term future in this organization.



Hobbes
Delegate of the East Pacific

[RiderSyl]

I applaud The East Pacific's decision.

[Benjabobaria]

I'm glad the East Pacific has realized the folly of the CAIN. I hope more large regions will follow in its footsteps. The inevitable demise of the CAIN has begun!

[Caelapes]

CAIN has only done one thing militarily, so even if it does dissolve, less bureaucratic organizations like Antifa (which has been active for nearly 6 years already) will continue to attack and destroy fascist and Nazi regions alike.

[Benjabobaria]

CAIN has only done one thing militarily, so even if it does dissolve, less bureaucratic organizations like Antifa (which has been active for nearly 6 years already) will continue to attack and destroy fascist and Nazi regions alike.

The formation of the CAIN has led to more coordination in ideological raiders. Future attacks on fascist (there are no current Nazi regions on NS, with the possible exception of NE) and related regions would certainly be less coordinated without it. Hopefully regions that ally themselves with fascist regions would not be considered fascists themselves as often. If the CAIN collapses, fringe groups like Antifa will receive much less mainstream support on NS which would certainly be a good thing. Regions targeted by the CAIN and other leftist groups would certainly need to stay alert, but ideological raiding would be less common and effective.

[Frattastan II]

The formation of the CAIN has led to more coordination in ideological raiders. Future attacks on fascist (there are no current Nazi regions on NS, with the possible exception of NE) and related regions would certainly be less coordinated without it. Hopefully regions that ally themselves with fascist regions would not be considered fascists themselves as often. If the CAIN collapses, fringe groups like Antifa will receive much less mainstream support on NS which would certainly be a good thing. Regions targeted by the CAIN and other leftist groups would certainly need to stay alert, but ideological raiding would be less common and effective.

CAIN only formalises a pre-existing coordination. Antifa got plenty of support for their anti-Nazi operations among independents, imperialists, and invaders.
At least on the military side, I don't feel things would change much.

[RiderSyl]

I disagree that the military situation wouldn't change if CAIN dissolved. I think it would improve. CAIN is too much of a bureaucratic clusterfuck to be effective.

We should remember, that the game didn't need an official coalition for us to unite against Nazi Europe, or the Anne Frank occupation.

It still doesn't need one.

[Cormactopia Prime]

I disagree that the military situation wouldn't change if CAIN dissolved. I think it would improve. CAIN is too much of a bureaucratic clusterfuck to be effective.

We should remember, that the game didn't need an official coalition for us to unite against Nazi Europe, or the Anne Frank occupation.

It still doesn't need one.

In CAIN's defense, there was a long time period before CAIN in which Nazi invasions of other regions were pretty much ignored except for perfunctory liberation resolutions to keep them from fully griefing the regions they were occupying. There weren't many anti-fascist raids going on during that time period either, except by Antifa. So it's not like there was no good reason for people to feel CAIN was needed.

[Roavin]

(there are no current Nazi regions on NS, with the possible exception of NE)

Today, on the KAISERREICH Discord...

[Cormactopia Prime]

"Moderate Nazis." Now I've heard everything.

[Syberis]

I think the best way to describe my reaction to this screenshot is that I've tried to type something insightful like 5 or 6 times and it's always devolved into "lolwut."

[Cresenthia]

(there are no current Nazi regions on NS, with the possible exception of NE)

Today, on the KAISERREICH Discord...

Fatheland was speaking sarcastically. And I take it Tim gave that to you? Because if I recall correctly, I banned you from our Discord after you started spamming us in the aftermath of Super Reich I.