Coalition Against the Ideology of Nazism

[LollerLand]

Wait what?

the plants have been incredibly obvious since they entered the region. they may have moved in slowly but the paper trail is still there and the only way they could remain in the region until the time is right is with compliance from others inside. it really isn't that complex of a plot but you managed to fool a flock of sheep, congrats

I have no idea what you are talking about but... thanks?

[Ugetstan]

Well. This is a bloody good laugh.

[Koguria]

The question is that if Europeia have the right to be in the headquarters of such coalition, while that region had collaboration with some raiders or invaders. We kept the evidence on our forum , link > http://hbec-ns-region.wikiforum.ro/t15-region-singapore#17

I guarantee you that my region do not have any embassies with Nazis. If one of them collaborated with them, it is not our affairs.

I want to say more clear one thing : The Invaders have a flag with an eagle which can be associated with Nazi symbols and they collaborated with their friends and/or allies in the invasion of Singapore region. Is this an evidence or not?
Only they can know. But we want to know the answer to this question.

Statement on CAIN by the Channel Island Government.

CAIN, the Coalition Against the Ideology of Nazism, has been formed to stop and roll back Nazism. This sentence should be obvious, but CAIN intends to target regions simply for choosing to have an embassy with a "Nazi" region. This is a clear violation of regional sovereignty. Each and every region that comes into existence reserves the right to conduct its foreign policy however it sees fit, without the interference of outside powers. CAIN represents nothing more than a small group of large regions continuing to assert their control over world affairs. They have tried to do this in the World Assembly. They are now trying to do this with foreign policy. This must not be allowed to happen. I encourage regions to say enough is enough. I encourage small regions to stand up and say "I can hold embassies with whoever I want to!" This I implore small regions to do. If CAIN truly wanted to fight Nazism, they would fight it directly rather then dragging innocent regions into a war that isn't there own. So I say to CAIN. Stop it. Do not think that your size gives you a pass to bully regions into adhering to your foreign policy. It doesn't. Do not think that you will be allowed to drag regions into an ideological war simply because they believe in their right to choose their foreign policy. You do not reserve those rights. So, CAIN, I implore you to change your well intentioned but sadly misguided policy. It would not only fix your terrible policy but your credibility as a "force for good"

- Joint Operational Force, Founder, Republic of Channel Island

tl;dr: CAIN is bad because it infringes on the rights if regions and targets the wrong regions.

I have to agree with Joint Operational Force. It is the time to perform a common treaty and/or organization in NS based on the right of democracy, freedom and regional sovereignty.

I have already said that my region do not have embassies with Nazi regions, neither extremists.

If Kaiserreich can become one or they collaborate with them , it is not part of our affairs or activity. Their region refuse to nominee themselves on such ideology. So, what could I understand from here?

[Goddess Relief Office]

The question is that if Europeia have the right to be in the headquarters of such coalition, while that region had collaboration with some raiders or invaders. We kept the evidence on our forum , link > http://hbec-ns-region.wikiforum.ro/t15-region-singapore#17

Traditional defender/invader alignments don't apply when it comes to defeating Nazism and other forms of racism.

[LollerLand]

The question is that if Europeia have the right to be in the headquarters of such coalition, while that region had collaboration with some raiders or invaders. We kept the evidence on our forum , link > http://hbec-ns-region.wikiforum.ro/t15-region-singapore#17

I guarantee you that my region do not have any embassies with Nazis. If one of them collaborated with them, it is not our affairs.

I want to say more clear one thing : The Invaders have a flag with an eagle which can be associated with Nazi symbols and they collaborated with their friends and/or allies in the invasion of Singapore region. Is this an evidence or not?
Only they can know. But we want to know the answer to this question.

Statement on CAIN by the Channel Island Government.

CAIN, the Coalition Against the Ideology of Nazism, has been formed to stop and roll back Nazism. This sentence should be obvious, but CAIN intends to target regions simply for choosing to have an embassy with a "Nazi" region. This is a clear violation of regional sovereignty. Each and every region that comes into existence reserves the right to conduct its foreign policy however it sees fit, without the interference of outside powers. CAIN represents nothing more than a small group of large regions continuing to assert their control over world affairs. They have tried to do this in the World Assembly. They are now trying to do this with foreign policy. This must not be allowed to happen. I encourage regions to say enough is enough. I encourage small regions to stand up and say "I can hold embassies with whoever I want to!" This I implore small regions to do. If CAIN truly wanted to fight Nazism, they would fight it directly rather then dragging innocent regions into a war that isn't there own. So I say to CAIN. Stop it. Do not think that your size gives you a pass to bully regions into adhering to your foreign policy. It doesn't. Do not think that you will be allowed to drag regions into an ideological war simply because they believe in their right to choose their foreign policy. You do not reserve those rights. So, CAIN, I implore you to change your well intentioned but sadly misguided policy. It would not only fix your terrible policy but your credibility as a "force for good"

- Joint Operational Force, Founder, Republic of Channel Island

tl;dr: CAIN is bad because it infringes on the rights if regions and targets the wrong regions.

I have to agree with Joint Operational Force. It is the time to perform a common treaty and/or organization in NS based on the right of democracy, freedom and regional sovereignty.

I have already said that my region do not have embassies with Nazi regions, neither extremists.

If Kaiserreich can become one or they collaborate with them , it is not part of our affairs or activity. Their region refuse to nominee themselves on such ideology. So, what could I understand from here?

CAIN contains regions with all sorts of gameplay leanings. Raiders, defenders and neutral regions are all a part of this fight against Nazism.
As far as I know the symbol in The Invader's flag has fascist roots. Even though many members of CAIN including The Universal Allegiance is against fascism, CAIN is not, CAIN's sole target is Nazi regions. Moreover The Invaders has done nothing to the best of my knowledge to label them as Nazi. Hence I can't see no fault if a member of CAIN wants to associate with The Invaders.

[Canton Empire]

Section 4a seems to contradict CAINs ideas on Nazi Collaborator.

(a) Signatories recognize that signing this treaty does not make them allies of the other signatories.

How is it that a large multilateral treaty does not make one allies but having an embassy with a region can make you a "collaborator"? The definition and intent of embassy changes from region to region and it is ridiculous to apply a blanket term to what a regions embassy should mean to them.

[Altmoras]

Section 4a seems to contradict CAINs ideas on Nazi Collaborator.

(a) Signatories recognize that signing this treaty does not make them allies of the other signatories.

How is it that a large multilateral treaty does not make one allies but having an embassy with a region can make you a "collaborator"? The definition and intent of embassy changes from region to region and it is ridiculous to apply a blanket term to what a regions embassy should mean to them.

If you cant grasp that treaty ≠ allies then I don't really know what to say.



Oh and just a fun bit of statistics for the class, CAIN Signatory regions contain approximately 61,500 Nations. That's 34.22% of all nations in the game. The signatories include 4 of the 5 Feeders, and 3 of the 4 Sinkers. So if anybody was wondering why the earlier threats by random Nazi/Nazi Collaborator players weren't causing much concern, a little math might help you understand.

[Cresenthia]

Oh and just a fun bit of statistics for the class, CAIN Signatory regions contain approximately 61,500 Nations. That's 34.22% of all nations in the game. The signatories include 4 of the 5 Feeders, and 3 of the 4 Sinkers. So if anybody was wondering why the earlier threats by random Nazi/Nazi Collaborator players weren't causing much concern, a little math might help you understand.

You're the group who is threatening.

Also, let me guess, if any of your nations reside in any region that may have had even the most tangential of connections to anything remotely right-wing, then that makes you a Nazi/Nazi Collaborator player?

[Maljaratas]

Oh and just a fun bit of statistics for the class, CAIN Signatory regions contain approximately 61,500 Nations. That's 34.22% of all nations in the game. The signatories include 4 of the 5 Feeders, and 3 of the 4 Sinkers. So if anybody was wondering why the earlier threats by random Nazi/Nazi Collaborator players weren't causing much concern, a little math might help you understand.

So are you saying that you've asked every single in those regions if they support this, and they've all said yes? Or are you saying that having the government of a region sign this indicates that every single nation in the region supports it? (Of course I'm only discussing the sinkers and feeders here).

[LollerLand]

Oh and just a fun bit of statistics for the class, CAIN Signatory regions contain approximately 61,500 Nations. That's 34.22% of all nations in the game. The signatories include 4 of the 5 Feeders, and 3 of the 4 Sinkers. So if anybody was wondering why the earlier threats by random Nazi/Nazi Collaborator players weren't causing much concern, a little math might help you understand.

So are you saying that you've asked every single in those regions if they support this, and they've all said yes? Or are you saying that having the government of a region sign this indicates that every single nation in the region supports it? (Of course I'm only discussing the sinkers and feeders here).

No.

To those from KAISERREICH who are saying that they were not responsible for the Nazi imagery in your offsite forum, it's really not a matured thing to do to put the blame of your actions upon others. You said you asked for help from Nazi Europa to set up your forum theme which itself raises some red flags. And obviously the theme NE made for you had Nazi imagery in them and it seems you had no problem with using that theme for your forum for so long. There are too many circumstantial evidences against your region that made us believe that adding your region to the list of designated Nazi regions is indeed an appropriate action.

This makes you a Nazi region.

[Cresenthia]

To those from KAISERREICH who are saying that they were not responsible for the Nazi imagery in your offsite forum, it's really not a matured thing to do to put the blame of your actions upon others. You said you asked for help from Nazi Europa to set up your forum theme which itself raises some red flags. And obviously the theme NE made for you had Nazi imagery in them and it seems you had no problem with using that theme for your forum for so long. There are too many circumstantial evidences against your region that made us believe that adding your region to the list of designated Nazi regions is indeed an appropriate action.

This makes you a Nazi region.

I'm calling bull on this. Sure it might raise red flags, but I've shown you a perfectly reasonable explanation, that worked months ago, but you don't seem to comprehend now. And look at the forums today, see anything that looks like a Nazi symbol? Nope, didn't think so.

[LollerLand]

This makes you a Nazi region.

I'm calling bull on this. Sure it might raise red flags, but I've shown you a perfectly reasonable explanation, that worked months ago, but you don't seem to comprehend now. And look at the forums today, see anything that looks like a Nazi symbol? Nope, didn't think so.

Well your 'perfectly reasonable explanation' sounded bull to us.

[Cresenthia]

I'm calling bull on this. Sure it might raise red flags, but I've shown you a perfectly reasonable explanation, that worked months ago, but you don't seem to comprehend now. And look at the forums today, see anything that looks like a Nazi symbol? Nope, didn't think so.

Well your 'perfectly reasonable explanation' sounded bull to us.

Fine then. We can be even. With regards to that, and that alone.

[LollerLand]

Well your 'perfectly reasonable explanation' sounded bull to us.

Fine then. We can be even. With regards to that, and that alone.

Yep

[Maljaratas]

So are you saying that you've asked every single in those regions if they support this, and they've all said yes? Or are you saying that having the government of a region sign this indicates that every single nation in the region supports it? (Of course I'm only discussing the sinkers and feeders here).

No.

Thank you.

[LollerLand]

No.

Thank you.

I was answering your second question btw. Regarding your first question, the CAIN treaty was ratified in each of the signatory regions as per their legal process.

[Maljaratas]

Thank you.

I was answering your second question btw. Regarding your first question, the CAIN treaty was ratified in each of the signatory regions as per their legal process.

I was only questioning your use of the total population of the signatory regions as a measure of widespread support. I probably could have worded my questions better. I had assumed that the treaty was ratified by whatever process the signatory regions had.

[Old Tyrannia]

Let's kill all the Nazis! Lemme at em! I already nuked A nation whole stole my citizens! Let's do some carpet bombing!

I'm giving you an unofficial warning for trolling since you may be unaware that gameplay is a largely OOC forum, not an RP forum like International Incidents or NationStates. Saying "let's kill all the [X]" is not appropriate here.

EDIT: Oh, and here's a link to the One Stop Rules Shop in case you need to familiarise yourself with the site rules.

[Guy]

The question is that if Europeia have the right to be in the headquarters of such coalition, while that region had collaboration with some raiders or invaders. We kept the evidence on our forum , link > http://hbec-ns-region.wikiforum.ro/t15-region-singapore#17

Traditional defender/invader alignments don't apply when it comes to defeating Nazism and other forms of racism.

If you think this is about (or can achieve the goal of) "defeating Nazism", the joke's on you.

[Drasnia]

Traditional defender/invader alignments don't apply when it comes to defeating Nazism and other forms of racism.

If you think this is about (or can achieve the goal of) "defeating Nazism", the joke's on you.

Agreed. It is stuff like this that validates what NSNazis are doing. If you want to stop them, don't pay attention to their RP - treat them exactly like you would other military orgs without RP elements. That would be the most effective.

But then again, I think a lot of the hatred towards them is stupid and misplaced.

[Caelapes]

"Ignore it and it will go away" is precisely what mainstream regions have tried to do for years and yet NE, NSM, etc. are still here.

[Cresenthia]

"Ignore it and it will go away" is precisely what mainstream regions have tried to do for years and yet NE, NSM, etc. are still here.

So you think you have a commandment from Max Barry himself to go out and make all of NationStates in your own image? Didn't think so.

[Caelapes]

Pretty sure none of us are pretending that we do.

[Drasnia]

"Ignore it and it will go away" is precisely what mainstream regions have tried to do for years and yet NE, NSM, etc. are still here.

That's not what I meant, but I can certainly see how you read it that way. Perhaps I should clarify.

Ignoring them didn't make them go away, but forming CAIN will at best, do nothing to combat the spread of NSNazi GP, and worse exacerbate this "problem."

[Falapatorius]

Ignoring them didn't make them go away, but forming CAIN will at best, do nothing to combat the spread of NSNazi GP, and worse exacerbate this "problem."

I do think it's a bit much to label regions as 'collaborators' just for having an embassy with a Nazi-designated region(if indeed they are RL Nazis), and then threatening them with raids from the coalition unless they withdraw those embassies. I'm starting to think this treaty is setting a bad precedent. This is beginning to look more like a RL crusade instead of an in-game construct.