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Coalition Against Authoritarianism | Official Disbandment

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
Not a roleplaying forum.

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Panzer Vier
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Founded: Jan 31, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Panzer Vier » Wed May 17, 2017 2:29 am

Vuori Kunin-Grrs wrote: especially in the wake of Gameplay's general stagnation and a decrease in invigorating action in NationStates.

You know, you've said this a couple times, but as far as I've seen, never actually elaborated in any way.

I do acknowledge that I have had limited, if any, military experience. I have indeed made serious mistakes starting out in NationStates. But through this experience, I've learned the hard way how to do things and how one do it properly, which is helping me now in many ways. With this, I ask that for all you nations out there: consider the following.*

Last I checked, making mistakes doesn't automatically teach you how to do it right. Just one of the ways to do it wrong.

Oroqus, clearly, is a very young and small region - it's rather inactive to host such an organization. However, unlike in CAIN, where Europeia basically leads the organization in relatively sluggish operations that lead offensives against founderless, vulnerable Nazi-affiliated regions (which is disputed, especially in the case of Femdom Empire) whose group environment requires, if not strongly encourages, the participation of all involved regions, the CAA will be decentralized, in where member regions take part in stealth operations against Nazi regions agreed on by an interregional referendum by the nations in those regions, and where certain regions in the organization can do different things than others. All regions will be of equal status, and instead of dealing with forum madness, the organization will be based on Discord. This allows for a much a efficient, and a much more progressively debilitating end to such Nazi appointed regions, allowing the Nazis to trust no one and destroy themselves from the inside out.

In doing large scale stealth operations, and possibly attrition runs as well, true Nazi regions can be worn down and eventually collapsed through the pressure from active intervention, and we don't have to deal with long-term, inefficient, and ultimately meaningless operations. Indeed, Nazis may resist these efforts, but what can they do? Blindly banject who they think is guilty? Done well enough, such stealth operations, with continuous persistence, will bring the end to Nazis.

Oh boy. A couple things.
One. Announcing to the member nations of multiple regions that you're doing a stealth operation somewhat defeats the point, which, unless I'm mistaken, is to be stealthy.
Two. The thing with forums is, they're excellent for record-keeping. As much as CAIN might be bogged down by bureaucracy at times, some amounts of it are necessary, and you're going to be hard-pressed to entirely avoid them.
Three. I find it somewhat amusing that you mention attrition runs, before denouncing other things as 'long-term, inefficient, and ultimately meaningless'. See, for an attrition run to have any real chance of changing things, you need to deal more influence damage than a delegate can recover in an update. And take off enough each time to actually wear not only a delegate's, but also any RO they may happen to assign's, influence down to the point where they're vulnerable enough to not be able to ban. And, once the regional influence has been ground down to a vulnerable level, have enough troops to actually take the region. The thing with attrition runs is that all they do is prevent banning from happening as easily. You still need the numbers in the end. In these kinds of proposed circumstances, the only thing more 'long-term, inefficient, and ultimately meaningless' would be complaining about the delegate on the RMB non-stop and hoping they get fed up and resign.
I'm not saying attrition runs don't have a place in certain circumstances, like keeping a newly-occupied delegacy unbalanced before they can build an influence base, but that's a very niche scenario.

The goal of CAIN is to strike down Nazi regions. The goal of CAA is to strike down Authoritarian regions, including Nazi regions. Though these goals are morally right, the methods in which they are worked towards in CAIN isn't exactly what I think we all wanted. For those who oppose or are neutral with CAIN, bringing down Nazis together before CAIN is the ultimate victory. For those who support CAIN: are you willing to try something new?

Make a call when CAA takes down a region using a combined updater force of 80+ people :roll:
For all your complaints about CAIN's inactivity and whatnot, they've actually done more than talk thus far.
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RiderSyl
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Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Wed May 17, 2017 3:01 am

I'll admit, I personally disliked CAIN. That being said, your ripoff CAA is so bad that if it miraculously acted on its endless amount of threats to authoritarians and actually did something, many players would root for no-one, and some might root even against you. You have the audacity to talk about the controversy surrounding you like it was some sort of trivial thing. It's like in your mind, after what you did, a laugh track played, everyone rolled their eyes at you, "Oh you!", and the credits rolled. As an SC author and as an R/D character, you are incredibly unpopular, and rightly so, as you sunk to depths so morally low that there should be a submarine in the CAA called the S.S. La Navasse.

There's no need for me to air your dirty laundry here to stink up your cheery little attempt at recruitment, because thankfully it's still stinking from "Liberate Femdom Empire" pissing everyone off, and the Nazi's exposure of your other nation's attempts to secure support from them to keep one of your regions safe. No matter how many nations you swap around between, you have collaborated with Nazi's and you've shown that you will push your own, specific agenda while caring about no-one else at all. That association only wears off with time, but by deciding to be an opportunist and use the moderators locking CAIN's thread to support your own, you've thrust yourself back under the blacklight again.

Anyone who joins the CAA that is now supplied with this information is doing so by their own foolishness.

Also, your opportunistic attention grab was well-written. You're still hyperlinking stuff too much though. Gotta work on that.
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Drop Your Pants
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Postby Drop Your Pants » Wed May 17, 2017 3:30 am

Vuori Kunin-Grrs wrote:However, I want to make an actual, effective, positive difference to Gameplay, especially in the wake of Gameplay's general stagnation and a decrease in invigorating action in NationStates.

A quiet Gameplay is a good Gameplay. This is easily the most toxic and cranky part of the NS forums (and that includes the report threads in Moderation). As for invigorating action in NS, you need to look outside your own personal sphere. There's tons of things going on, but you won't read about it in a news thread.
Happily oblivious to NS Drama and I rarely pay attention beyond 5 minutes

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Indo 3
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Ex-Nation

Postby Indo 3 » Wed May 17, 2017 8:47 am

Vuori Kunin-Grrs wrote:I must also acknowledge, however, the existence of the largest, and most reasonably the only, organization against CAIN: CAC, or the Coalition Against CAIN. This organization aims to essentially dissolve CAIN and support KAISERREICH and certain progressive Nazi Collaborator designated regions. However, I must say that this organization hasn't gained more than one member, Supernova Suite, since its formation. CAA, of course, has gotten none. But on the whole, this shows that opposition to CAIN has generally not been unified and is disorganized.

.. Why has my old Coalition Against CAIN thing suddenly became relevant?

Let it die.
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Tim-Opolis
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Postby Tim-Opolis » Wed May 17, 2017 8:56 am

You know, here I was hoping that locking the CAIN thread would remove NSG from GP.

sighs and prepares for Cres and Co. to find this thread too
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Cresenthia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Cresenthia » Wed May 17, 2017 9:04 am

Tim-Opolis wrote:You know, here I was hoping that locking the CAIN thread would remove NSG from GP.

sighs and prepares for Cres and Co. to find this thread too

Cresenthia found it a long time ago. And I frankly have nothing to complain about here.

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Tim-Opolis
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Postby Tim-Opolis » Wed May 17, 2017 9:10 am

Cresenthia wrote:
Tim-Opolis wrote:You know, here I was hoping that locking the CAIN thread would remove NSG from GP.

sighs and prepares for Cres and Co. to find this thread too

Cresenthia found it a long time ago. And I frankly have nothing to complain about here.

Genuinely Shocking.
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<Koth - 06/30/2020> I mean as far as GPers go, Tim is one of the most iconic

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Cerian Quilor
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Postby Cerian Quilor » Wed May 17, 2017 10:28 am

Tim-Opolis wrote:You know, here I was hoping that locking the CAIN thread would remove NSG from GP.

sighs and prepares for Cres and Co. to find this thread too

As long as CAIN exists, NSG will keep treading into GP. As long as people insist on fighting RL Political battles with R/D, NSG will be in GP. So we'd need to axe this group, The Red Fleet, The Internationale, Nazi Europa, Kaisarreich given their current 'destroy commies' thing, and, well, a heck of a lot of regions.

Granted, I'd be all for axing all those regions, buuuut... *shrug* ain't gonna happen.
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

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Tim-Opolis
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Postby Tim-Opolis » Wed May 17, 2017 10:38 am

Cerian Quilor wrote:
Tim-Opolis wrote:You know, here I was hoping that locking the CAIN thread would remove NSG from GP.

sighs and prepares for Cres and Co. to find this thread too

As long as CAIN exists, NSG will keep treading into GP. As long as people insist on fighting RL Political battles with R/D, NSG will be in GP. So we'd need to axe this group, The Red Fleet, The Internationale, Nazi Europa, Kaisarreich given their current 'destroy commies' thing, and, well, a heck of a lot of regions.

Granted, I'd be all for axing all those regions, buuuut... *shrug* ain't gonna happen.

My solution is fash just stop whining about how we're all being really mean to them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Pergamon
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Founded: Oct 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Pergamon » Wed May 17, 2017 11:32 am

Why is this even still a thing? Who did this malicious gravedig? This "element" (not even calling it organization yet) has been doing nothing relevant but posting in this thread once in a while. Nothing is ever going to happen at all. Just a thread with some ambitions too high. And to be honest: Some Defenders fought the Pacific since its rise to the most relevant of all Empires within the polsim games - and guess what? They didn't need a whack thread as very first thing, they were busy doing stuff.

This is not even a post with malicious intentions, but seriously, do something, build up, send mass TG's get some crazed people into your boat and start small.
No actions, just talk. Talkers make me become bored. I might get soo fucking bored to actually found the: Coalition Against Talkers.

And people that know me can approve that CAT would definitely become a thing.
Dude, I am not even talking. Ever seen some evil autocrat just sitting in his black ivory chair, patting a cat, plotting world domination and hijacking some talkers thread with an absolutely ingenious shitpost?

It's already real.

You are not.
Go and do some business.

That's not me politely asking you, that's an order.
Last edited by Pergamon on Wed May 17, 2017 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
PACIFICA STAND STRONG

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"The only war that matters is the war of the Feederite Class against the Userite. UCR Organizations and Cabals that befoul GCR with their presence, disguised as ruling elite within them, must be removed and their power must be broken. This is the ultimate imperative of the Revolutionaries true to the GCR and the Pacifics, which have nothing to lose but the chains from Userite oppression."

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Caelapes
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Ex-Nation

Postby Caelapes » Wed May 17, 2017 11:33 am

Cerian Quilor wrote:As long as CAIN exists, NSG will keep treading into GP. As long as people insist on fighting RL Political battles with R/D, NSG will be in GP. So we'd need to axe this group, The Red Fleet, The Internationale, Nazi Europa, Kaisarreich given their current 'destroy commies' thing, and, well, a heck of a lot of regions.

Granted, I'd be all for axing all those regions, buuuut... *shrug* ain't gonna happen.

I don't know why you think TRF or The Internationale are part of the problem. TI has never had a Gameplay thread and TRF hasn't had problems like the CAIN thread has. It's almost like you're bringing us up to get in a cheap shot without any actual wrongdoing on our part

Image
    
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aka Misley

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Cresenthia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Cresenthia » Wed May 17, 2017 11:35 am

Caelapes wrote:
Cerian Quilor wrote:As long as CAIN exists, NSG will keep treading into GP. As long as people insist on fighting RL Political battles with R/D, NSG will be in GP. So we'd need to axe this group, The Red Fleet, The Internationale, Nazi Europa, Kaisarreich given their current 'destroy commies' thing, and, well, a heck of a lot of regions.

Granted, I'd be all for axing all those regions, buuuut... *shrug* ain't gonna happen.

I don't know why you think TRF or The Internationale are part of the problem. TI has never had a Gameplay thread and TRF hasn't had problems like the CAIN thread has. It's almost like you're bringing us up to get in a cheap shot without any actual wrongdoing on our part

Image

This is the Coalition Against Authoritarianism. Communism is an authoritarian ideology. Ergo, TRF and TI would be targeted by CAA.

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Asturies-Llion
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Asturies-Llion » Wed May 17, 2017 12:00 pm

Cresenthia wrote:
Caelapes wrote:I don't know why you think TRF or The Internationale are part of the problem. TI has never had a Gameplay thread and TRF hasn't had problems like the CAIN thread has. It's almost like you're bringing us up to get in a cheap shot without any actual wrongdoing on our part

(Image)

This is the Coalition Against Authoritarianism. Communism is an authoritarian ideology. Ergo, TRF and TI would be targeted by CAA.

TI is home of anarchist and democratic socialist nations too, which I suppose you don't consider as "authoritarian", so targetting us would be very unfair.
Last edited by Asturies-Llion on Wed May 17, 2017 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Caelapes
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Ex-Nation

Postby Caelapes » Wed May 17, 2017 12:35 pm

Cresenthia wrote:
Caelapes wrote:I don't know why you think TRF or The Internationale are part of the problem. TI has never had a Gameplay thread and TRF hasn't had problems like the CAIN thread has. It's almost like you're bringing us up to get in a cheap shot without any actual wrongdoing on our part

Image

This is the Coalition Against Authoritarianism. Communism is an authoritarian ideology. Ergo, TRF and TI would be targeted by CAA.

okay cool but cerian wasn't talking about us being authoritarian at all they brought us up as an example of NSG intruding into GP
    
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Ego vero custos fratris mei sum.
aka Misley

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Cresenthia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Cresenthia » Wed May 17, 2017 12:55 pm

Caelapes wrote:
Cresenthia wrote:This is the Coalition Against Authoritarianism. Communism is an authoritarian ideology. Ergo, TRF and TI would be targeted by CAA.

okay cool but cerian wasn't talking about us being authoritarian at all they brought us up as an example of NSG intruding into GP

Oh, they're all based on RL ideologies and/or governments.
Last edited by Cresenthia on Wed May 17, 2017 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Cerian Quilor
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Postby Cerian Quilor » Wed May 17, 2017 5:54 pm

Caelapes wrote:
Cerian Quilor wrote:As long as CAIN exists, NSG will keep treading into GP. As long as people insist on fighting RL Political battles with R/D, NSG will be in GP. So we'd need to axe this group, The Red Fleet, The Internationale, Nazi Europa, Kaisarreich given their current 'destroy commies' thing, and, well, a heck of a lot of regions.

Granted, I'd be all for axing all those regions, buuuut... *shrug* ain't gonna happen.

I don't know why you think TRF or The Internationale are part of the problem. TI has never had a Gameplay thread and TRF hasn't had problems like the CAIN thread has. It's almost like you're bringing us up to get in a cheap shot without any actual wrongdoing on our part

Image

They're part of the problem because they're fighting real life battles in R/D. That's the problem that has led to all these other ones.

Allow me to repeat myself:
As long as people insist on fighting RL Political battles with R/D, NSG will be in GP.
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

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Freien
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Postby Freien » Thu May 18, 2017 3:26 am

Cerian Quilor wrote:
Caelapes wrote:They're part of the problem because they're fighting real life battles in R/D. That's the problem that has led to all these other ones.

Allow me to repeat myself:

You are inadequately repeating yourself. Where is the part about axing certain regions (even a commended one, such as TRF)?

Sorry that The Internationale and The Red Fleet really fight fascism on NS (not like CAIN) and therefore, have an actual reason for participating in the R/D part of the game. If I remember correctly, Cerian Quilor, you have a position in Europeia and even have been President there in the past. Doesn't Europeia follow the reasonable policy to justify raiding on other regions with statements such as "eat a bag full of dicks", as your Admiral had stated during the raid of Eurasian Socialist Union? Yeah, that is a lot more serious than raiding a region because its members are expressing antisemitic views.

Therefore I agree, fighting RL political battles that at least matter, as much as something can matter in a game like NS, is the real problem of GP...
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A Squadron Admiral of The Red Fleet (01/10/17 - )
Qui Tacet Consentit

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Kaboomlandia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Kaboomlandia » Thu May 18, 2017 5:44 am

I thought you retired, Navasse? :roll:
In=character, Kaboomlandia is a World Assembly member and abides by its resolutions. If this nation isn't in the WA, it's for practical reasons.
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"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Cerian Quilor
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Postby Cerian Quilor » Thu May 18, 2017 7:05 am

Freien wrote:
Cerian Quilor wrote:

You are inadequately repeating yourself. Where is the part about axing certain regions (even a commended one, such as TRF)?

Sorry that The Internationale and The Red Fleet really fight fascism on NS (not like CAIN) and therefore, have an actual reason for participating in the R/D part of the game. If I remember correctly, Cerian Quilor, you have a position in Europeia and even have been President there in the past. Doesn't Europeia follow the reasonable policy to justify raiding on other regions with statements such as "eat a bag full of dicks", as your Admiral had stated during the raid of Eurasian Socialist Union? Yeah, that is a lot more serious than raiding a region because its members are expressing antisemitic views.

Therefore I agree, fighting RL political battles that at least matter, as much as something can matter in a game like NS, is the real problem of GP...

R/D is a game. For fun. It doesn't need justification.

You don't fight fascism. You dress yourselves up in fancy rhetoric to make yourselves feel like you are doing something of meaningful value in the world. Nothing you're doing in NS actually hurts actual fascism. Or anti-Semitism. Or anything that you guys say you hate.

NSG invades Gameplay because people insist on using R/D to fight Real Life Political battles. The Red Fleet is doing just that. Which was my point.
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

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Freien
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Founded: Aug 21, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Freien » Fri May 19, 2017 3:38 am

Cerian Quilor wrote:R/D is a game. For fun. It doesn't need justification.
Games have rules, too, in order to be fun for everyone participating. Your view on what "fun" is seems to be very one-sided. To use my previous example: do you believe that members of the region that Europeia and KGB raided found seeing what it took them months to built being destroyed as amusing as you found destroying it in less than an hour? I don't think so.All actions should be justified, even if we are talking about actions that exist within the sometimes meaningless frames of a game.

Cerian Quilor wrote:Nothing you're doing in NS actually hurts actual fascism. Or anti-Semitism. Or anything that you guys say you hate.
I already said that (remember: as much as something can matter in a game like NS). However, does that stop me from fighting what resembles real life fascism in-game? Even in roleplays we cannot effectively break free from the influence of our identity. We remain who we are, but adopt it in the specific circumstances. People will tell you to look at yourself, find a career, have a family and all in all, be what they call happy. People in RL will tell you to close your eyes, in order not to face the suffering that exists in the world. People in RL will give a lot of thoughtful suggestions... What they actually mean though? What are they inciting you to do? To abandon your beliefs and become a hypocrite who lives in his own illusionary post-suffering microcosm. That is the ideal life for most. But some people just can't follow that line, sorry.

A game is a continuation, a part, of reality. There isn't a clear line separating these two. You can influence the real lifes of people through an online game, I am determined about that, even if they don't understand or recognize that influence.

I will keep fighting fascism both online and most importantly, in real life and continue trying to encourage more people to do the same. At the end of the day, I am not sure if either battle will have any serious impact. But someone in this world has to stand up for what he thinks is right.
Comrade WA Delegate of The Internationale (x3)
A Squadron Admiral of The Red Fleet (01/10/17 - )
Qui Tacet Consentit

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Intelligeneria
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Ex-Nation

Postby Intelligeneria » Fri May 19, 2017 10:54 am

On behalf of the Grey Wardens, I would like to make the following statement:

The Order of the Grey Wardens wishes to join the CAA and hopes we can do some cool stuff with it.
Regards,
Some High Ranking Warden or something
Charles Watson-Turing-Donald,
Prime Minister of New United Kingdom,
Grey Warden

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Vandario
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Founded: Oct 31, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Vandario » Wed May 24, 2017 9:09 pm

Oh fun we're here now, I was starting to miss reading the CAIN thread, was entertaining while it stood. I don't exactly agree with "fighting" irl ideologies in game and so on, but we're all a product of our beliefs and environment. As much as I dislike CAIN and CAA, I have to agree, everyone is doing the same thing, just pushing our beliefs and agendas, why I just shut up in the CAIN thread. So why don't we ll just agree we're all pushing our own thing against others, grouping together with people alike or at least tolerant of our beliefs and call it a day?
Last edited by Vandario on Wed May 24, 2017 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You are a: Right-Leaning Authoritarian Isolationist Nativist Traditionalist
Collectivism score: -33%
Authoritarianism score: 67%
Internationalism score: -50%
Tribalism score: 67%
Liberalism score: -33%
Liberalism score: 0%

Political Compass: http://i.imgur.com/cbmUtGN.png Updated Feb 11th 2017
Political Objective: http://i.imgur.com/JO0drir.png Updated Nov 28th 2016
8 Values Test: http://i.imgur.com/v428sL7.png posted May 7 2017
Another Political Test: http://i.imgur.com/PkMqvzl.png
Nolan Chart: http://i.imgur.com/YB5TYbC.png

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RiderSyl
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Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Thu May 25, 2017 4:22 am

Vandario wrote:So why don't we ll just agree we're all pushing our own thing against others, grouping together with people alike or at least tolerant of our beliefs and call it a day?


It appears that everyone had called it not only a day, but uh.. 5 days, until you posted this.

As for what you say... No, we shouldn't just agree with that, because that's false. There are plenty of people on this game just having a good time without pushing an agenda, and plenty of people lofting in regions where their beliefs can and are challenged by others. Just because you, the founder of an "anti-CAIN region" (???), believe that everyone is a politician sitting in an echo chamber, it doesn't make that reality.
R.I.P. Dyakovo
Sylvia Montresor

Ashmoria
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Cresenthia
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Founded: Mar 03, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Cresenthia » Thu May 25, 2017 6:28 am

Ridersyl wrote:
Vandario wrote:So why don't we ll just agree we're all pushing our own thing against others, grouping together with people alike or at least tolerant of our beliefs and call it a day?


It appears that everyone had called it not only a day, but uh.. 5 days, until you posted this.

As for what you say... No, we shouldn't just agree with that, because that's false. There are plenty of people on this game just having a good time without pushing an agenda, and plenty of people lofting in regions where their beliefs can and are challenged by others. Just because you, the founder of an "anti-CAIN region" (???), believe that everyone is a politician sitting in an echo chamber, it doesn't make that reality.

He's probably just talking about the people posting here and in the CAIN thread.

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RiderSyl
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Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Thu May 25, 2017 7:46 am

Cresenthia wrote:He's probably just talking about the people posting here and in the CAIN thread.


Um.. Just gonna repeat myself.

Ridersyl wrote:everyone had called it not only a day, but uh.. 5 days

and if there are people posting in the CAIN thread, they must be magicians.

There's no way to rationalize bumping a topic to tell everyone to stop discussing it... :blink:
Last edited by RiderSyl on Thu May 25, 2017 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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