Osiris | Danburg Seized!

[Pierconium]

I'm certainly disappointed AND confused at this point. So, is this official Osiris? I'd like to know...

I believe this is Schrödinger's Declaration.

[Neo Domais]

I'm certainly disappointed AND confused at this point. So, is this official Osiris? I'd like to know...

I believe this is Schrödinger's Declaration.

Is the person that made the statement Mike?

[Pierconium]

I believe this is Schrödinger's Declaration.

Is the person that made the statement Mike?

Based on the wording of Syberis's statement and this from the poster's signature I would say yes:

'Wiktor "Mike" Skollvaldr, son of Cormac Skollvaldr'

[Kavagrad]

We will wait for an official statement from the Pharaoh herself for confirmation or denial of this declaration.

Indeed. But the statement just made by Syberis indicates that 'Mike' is the closest fit for this sort of announcement and that posts like this on behalf of the government can only be made 'at the will of the Pharaoh'. Therefore, as the statement exists, it must be at the will of the Pharaoh. Otherwise it would not exist.

Unless, of course, there is some problem with the internal workings of Osiris. Heaven forbid.

Imagine a GCR being unable to control rogue government members. How unprecedented.

[Pierconium]

Indeed. But the statement just made by Syberis indicates that 'Mike' is the closest fit for this sort of announcement and that posts like this on behalf of the government can only be made 'at the will of the Pharaoh'. Therefore, as the statement exists, it must be at the will of the Pharaoh. Otherwise it would not exist.

Unless, of course, there is some problem with the internal workings of Osiris. Heaven forbid.

Imagine a GCR being unable to control rogue government members. How unprecedented.

Ah, so are you confirming that 'Mike' is a rogue element of the Osiris government?

Precedent aside, this is fairly hilarious. The Pacific is both in a state of war and a state of peace with Osiris because a declaration has been made that must have been done at the will of the Pharaoh but is simultaneously not supported by the Pharaoh or the other Guardians. It is a conundrum.

[The Seeker of Power]

Is this Schrödinger's War?

[Kavagrad]

Imagine a GCR being unable to control rogue government members. How unprecedented.

Ah, so are you confirming that 'Mike' is a rogue element of the Osiris government?

I'm afraid I wouldn't know, but I trust that this is an official declaration until it is proven otherwise.

[Syberis]

Imagine a GCR being unable to control rogue government members. How unprecedented.

Ah, so are you confirming that 'Mike' is a rogue element of the Osiris government?

Precedent aside, this is fairly hilarious. The Pacific is both in a state of war and a state of peace with Osiris because a declaration has been made that must have been done at the will of the Pharaoh but is simultaneously not supported by the Pharaoh or the other Guardians. It is a conundrum.

I think you missed the snark directed to The Pacific. Or you did and ignored it with rather elephantine grace.

[Pierconium]

Ah, so are you confirming that 'Mike' is a rogue element of the Osiris government?

Precedent aside, this is fairly hilarious. The Pacific is both in a state of war and a state of peace with Osiris because a declaration has been made that must have been done at the will of the Pharaoh but is simultaneously not supported by the Pharaoh or the other Guardians. It is a conundrum.

I think you missed the snark directed to The Pacific. Or you did and ignored it with rather elephantine grace.

Indeed.

So this is an official statement from the government of Osiris then? Have we opened the box?

A simple yes or no will do. It seems that official government statements could be classified fairly easily. Either this is an official statement from the government of Osiris or it is a statement from a member of the government of Osiris who has decided to unilaterally (?) declare war on another GCR. Of course, we can continue with it being both, who knows if the war has died from the poison in the box? It is a mystery.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

I'm sorry Osiris, but if anything, this is confusing.

Each and all bans in NS can be undone at a later time. There is no discussion about it: is just the way our world works. Had Ale choose to ban the individuals immediately, would you still have come up with this non-sense statement about "There [being] no assurance that in a year, or sooner, the bans will remain in place." ?

I mean, let's get things clear here: you are basically saying something along the lines of "We are disgusted by the fact that the NPO is incapable - as are all other NS regions - of imposing a perma-ban on Perg - due to the technical limitations of our realms." Is this it?

What was the point then?

I'm kind of disappointed. Let's be honest here: had I been the Emperor, I would have apologized to Perg for having to do what I had to do, and would have banned him. It is harsh, and I would have infuriated and alienated the community of my region. And then you would have said "Oh is not enough" and still come out with this joke... To what end?

I'm certainly disappointed AND confused at this point. So, is this official Osiris? I'd like to know...

Would you have considered letting him back in?

[Imperium of Josh]

Why is this confusing? FA Vizier makes FA announcement, big shock ensues...

[Neo Domais]

Furthermore, if he gets ubanned because of the ban limit and he comes back just reban him. Josh that helps clear stuff up.

[Flame of Dio]

Though at the same time -- I also want to ask, since Xoriet has made such a big deal of it, talking him up etc, was losing Perg really that big a loss? I feel like he was more of a liability. I know I'm not the only one who thinks that. I know there are members of the Order who think that.

Hello, my name is Dio.

I'd like to preface this with a short note: thus-far I have kept to the internal affairs of the Order, so you will not know (of) me, but anyone who has held a conversation at any level with me, they can affirm that I am as straightforward as I can be. I digress. Your question has piqued my interest, so I am here.

There are a few salient points I'd like to cover.

The NationStates community at large interacted with Pergamon as he was when he was representing the New Pacific Order, and not much beyond that. You did not see him as he was in our private channels, you did not interact with him as a Pacifican would (though neither is due to any fault of your own, it really is just a matter of circumstance). I am sure you can agree that due to this (and some other reasons we can talk about at a later date), your image of him, and the everyday Pacifican's image of him as a result of this disconnect in type of interaction, would be vastly different.

I am not challenging any claim related to his past actions being regrettable, or even "wrong". What I am saying, however, is that the vast majority of Pacificans (i.e., everyone who interacted with him) aren't happy with his ban from our community. We Pacificans have a tight bond. I won't presume to say that I know Pergamon better than most here, but we were comrades for a significant period of time. We lost a great comrade for he was not only "Pergamon of NS", but "Pergamon of Pacifica". Perhaps he was best known for his time here, but he had provided equally legitimate and worthwhile contributions to our communities 'elsewhere'. He wasn't simply another person we played this game with. For years, we laughed at our victories, mourned what was sad, and shared memories. This is not hero worship, nor is this meant to excuse anything he did. It's just how it is, and I have always been one to say it as it is.

We might not agree with his banning from our community, but neither I nor any other reasonable Pacifican will tell you that we don't understand why you want him gone. We do. You may view him as a liability, but to me, he was Pergamon, a friend who I could chat with as casually as any other. So, yes: his ban from one of our communities was a blow. I was sad, I still am. But we Pacificans have never been one for moping around. We move ever forwards.

There are some who have gone a step further to suggest that he be banned from our branches in other realms as well. I do not exaggerate when I say that such a suggestion would first be mocked, and then rejected. His actions here hold less weight than you may believe in other realms, though they shall be regarded the same. Beyond our feelings, it is also just not that plausible. As an organization, we pride ourselves on knowing how our members will react to x thing. This, Consular, will only be received in a negative light. No good will come from this.

I understand those people's worries however. I understand your concerns about his presence in our community as a whole, but for all those, what I can tell you with utmost sincerity, is that we Pacificans are loyal to our Emperor, and he who wears the crown of servitude has never gone back on his word in the time that I have known him.

Till next time.

[Neo Domais]

<long post>

You have 1 post, are you someones puppet?

[Flame of Dio]

You have 1 post, are you someones puppet?

I believe we had a conversation the other day in a Discord server. I go by, "A Black Bird" on Discord. And, no, I am not someone's puppet. As I said, I have been largely unconcerned with NSGP till now.

[Lord Dominator]

Whoever told you that Mike went rogue is lying. I'm not a Guardian myself or in the FA section of the government, but I can tell you that the relevant vote was to go to war.

[The Seeker of Power]

- snip -

Would you have considered letting him back in?

Myself, personally, no. Furthermore, within the government of the NPO, it is agreed that this is permanent. Perg himself has stated so. He understands the situation and what is needed. And get this: this isn't something personal. It is a regrettable thing for Pacifica, while it may not be for everyone else.

However, my words will be empty as long as you guys CHOOSE to decide the future instead of letting it happen.

Re: DIO. Not a puppet, regretfully (IMO) most active members of the New Pacific Order dedicate themselves to internal interactions, given they way they are generally received by people in GP in both IC as OOC interactions. Hence, unless you Discord with them in our own halls, it is rare to see them here in GP.

In the past, I strived to change this, and then the NLO happened. I wish this time around I can get more active Pacificans to post more often in NS.

[Mghnb]

Ah yes, the de facto heir apparent, and Vizier of Foreign Affairs, is definitely a rouge element of government by posting about a declaration of war, that was unanimously voted for by the entirety of the Council of Guardians at the request of the Pharaoh herself.

I am but the mouth of the region, and the arbiter of nothing. If not clearly an opinion, it is at the request of the Pharaoh, as previous chairmen of the Council of Guardians have done in this same forum.

[Imperium of Josh]

Would you have considered letting him back in?

Myself, personally, no. Furthermore, within the government of the NPO, it is agreed that this is permanent. Perg himself has stated so. He understands the situation and what is needed. And get this: this isn't something personal. It is a regrettable thing for Pacifica, while it may not be for everyone else.

However, my words will be empty as long as you guys CHOOSE to decide the future instead of letting it happen.

Re: DIO. Not a puppet, regretfully (IMO) most active members of the New Pacific Order dedicate themselves to internal interactions, given they way they are generally received by people in GP in both IC as OOC interactions. Hence, unless you Discord with them in our own halls, it is rare to see them here in GP.

In the past, I strived to change this, and then the NLO happened. I wish this time around I can get more active Pacificans to post more often in NS.

I've always found it very unfortunate that the NPO is a very insular place, but then, it's really part of the culture. If you tell your natives that everyone else is out to get them, there's no point interacting outside TP, and that they are superior so don't even need to, it tends to happen.

Shame...

[Imperium of Josh]

Ah yes, the de facto heir apparent, and Vizier of Foreign Affairs, is definitely a rouge element of government by posting about a declaration of war, that was unanimously voted for by the entirety of the Council of Guardians at the request of the Pharaoh herself.

I am but the mouth of the region, and the arbiter of nothing. If not clearly an opinion, it is at the request of the Pharaoh, as previous chairmen of the Council of Guardians have done in this same forum.

Clearly that's just not enough authority to do things Mike. You need to be formally declared god and saviour of all things NPO related and we all need to pay you tribute before your majesty can be recognised by the wider world on NS. Only once a thousand goats have been slaughtered in your name can you claim to speak for the Pharaoh

[Lord Dominator]

Ah yes, the de facto heir apparent, and Vizier of Foreign Affairs, is definitely a rouge element of government by posting about a declaration of war, that was unanimously voted for by the entirety of the Council of Guardians at the request of the Pharaoh herself.

I am but the mouth of the region, and the arbiter of nothing. If not clearly an opinion, it is at the request of the Pharaoh, as previous chairmen of the Council of Guardians have done in this same forum.

Clearly that's just not enough authority to do things Mike. You need to be formally declared god and saviour of all things NPO related and we all need to pay you tribute before your majesty can be recognised by the wider world on NS. Only once a thousand goats have been slaughtered in your name can you claim to speak for the Pharaoh

Goat sacrifices go to Kyru, not Mike

[Imperium of Josh]

Clearly that's just not enough authority to do things Mike. You need to be formally declared god and saviour of all things NPO related and we all need to pay you tribute before your majesty can be recognised by the wider world on NS. Only once a thousand goats have been slaughtered in your name can you claim to speak for the Pharaoh

Goat sacrifices go to Kyru, not Mike

It's all part of confirming Mike's authority LD. Gotta surpass Kyru, only then can he do his job on the orders of the Pharaoh and be accepted for it.

[Lord Dominator]

Goat sacrifices go to Kyru, not Mike

It's all part of confirming Mike's authority LD. Gotta surpass Kyru, only then can he do his job on the orders of the Pharaoh and be accepted for it.

One does not simply surpass the Overgoat

[Xoriet]

Clearly that's just not enough authority to do things Mike. You need to be formally declared god and saviour of all things NPO related and we all need to pay you tribute before your majesty can be recognised by the wider world on NS. Only once a thousand goats have been slaughtered in your name can you claim to speak for the Pharaoh

Goats are for marriage dowries, not sacrificing.

Next time Osiris makes an official declaration of war, it would be useful to have all of the signatures of the related parties affixed to the document. This would clear up further misunderstandings. As it is, the lack of such left open the door to confusion. Given that Altino is the final authority and I was told some time ago that unless the Pharaoh confirms or says something personally, it isn't official, we will wait for Altino to confirm Mike's statements.

[Salvarity]

Myself, personally, no. Furthermore, within the government of the NPO, it is agreed that this is permanent. Perg himself has stated so. He understands the situation and what is needed. And get this: this isn't something personal. It is a regrettable thing for Pacifica, while it may not be for everyone else.

However, my words will be empty as long as you guys CHOOSE to decide the future instead of letting it happen.

Re: DIO. Not a puppet, regretfully (IMO) most active members of the New Pacific Order dedicate themselves to internal interactions, given they way they are generally received by people in GP in both IC as OOC interactions. Hence, unless you Discord with them in our own halls, it is rare to see them here in GP.

In the past, I strived to change this, and then the NLO happened. I wish this time around I can get more active Pacificans to post more often in NS.

I've always found it very unfortunate that the NPO is a very insular place, but then, it's really part of the culture. If you tell your natives that everyone else is out to get them, there's no point interacting outside TP, and that they are superior so don't even need to, it tends to happen.

Shame...

Interesting to see Dio is so focused on the "insular" community here but that does not apply to him in PnW.

Don't fall for the bullshit, Dio is one of The Pacific's cross-game imports.

Which is exactly the reason Pergamon must be banned from the entirety of the NPO. Much like they are willing to peddle duality in NationStates, they decide to peddle cross-game sovereignty here. They continue to actively import between games. They imported their Emperor (who's only (public) NS experience seems to be in the NLO) from CN. Pergamon will back as soon as it's relatively opportune. Hell, he's still here, cultivating the real powerbase of the NPO, which they'll use to jackboot over the rest of the game in due time.

Just like duality is a malicious lie, so is the cross-game sovereignty.