Tim-Opolis wrote:Escade wrote:This discussion is not about Cormac. It's not about Cormac. It's not about Cormac. It's not about Cormac.
Isn't this discussion literally about Cormac though... like I get the "deeper meaning" vibe, but this literally all started out of a discussion about Cormac
Here's hoping TNP cuts their bullshit, though I ain't holding my breath. Good on Osiris for calling them out on it publicly. Despite some people arguing that this could/should have been resolved behind closed doors, TNP seems to be more keen on a snail-pace approach to controversies against them unless there's some kerosene thrown into the mix. I imagine a public statement help resolve this and bring it to light far more effectively.
I think the whole point was that we need to have better community standards regardless of who the player in question is (in this case both Cormac and Altino were impacted by this). The tendency to have a "Have you ever felt victimized by Regina George" moment only exacerbates this problem. NSGP is not the place because - at least right now - it lends itself to certain patterns and behaviors.
The slippery slope of "X player was a dick to me so that justifies me and my ten friends trashing them and their friends in a public government situation" basically means you can never say, "Here are community standards that are applicable to any player." It's why I bring up Onder or have brought him up whenever these discussions come up whether here or on Discord. Regardless of how much you like or dislike a player - the same set of standards should apply to what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. Picking and choosing means that there won't be consistent standards for anyone. Otherwise this is just part of the growing insipid trend of players in NSGP to use toxicity as a weapon.
Also, I'm not hating on TNP here nor encouraging it as no region or group is really blameless in this situation - we created and normed this culture as a group. If anything my political affiliations have nothing to do with this discussion. I'm banned from Osiris, love players closely associated with the NPO and also like players (including some of the "troublemakers" as it were) from TNP.
The goal is not castigate or blame or shame any one particular person or region. It's more of "Hey this has been happening since 2000 whatever. Players keep complaining but nothing is ever done. For those who want to change the atmosphere, what concrete things would you like to see change that are applicable from henceforth to all players." Put up or shut up as it were.
The only way to stop the weaponization of "toxicity" is to make it clear, transparent and applicable to all. I'm not talking about minor disputes either like calling someone a dick in a heated argument. There's been a real fear from several players of being targeted for blacklisting with "toxicity" being used as the form of attack.
I also think that there are things that players have done that require more serious actions (sexual harassment for example) and then things that don't. Right now how those players are treated varies greatly. So players that have been excised from the game (like Pergamon or Yuno) for whatever issues (sometimes based on circumstantial evidence or lacking information or context) have an avenue for clarifying and coming back to the game without vitriol or other nonsense (such as false and unproven accusations).
Having some clear, transparent standards that apply to everyone would help make our culture and system less one about fear and the "gotcha" attitude that's been growing more and more prevalent. It would be awesome if leaders, without major baggage, from all the regions involved or invested could put away the political theater for a bit and work on this.
To avoid any more detractions, going to link to this thread here by Cataluna: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=462978
I'll think of a more detailed response to that post that encapsulates a lot of the above.